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blankseplocked Are features like the Loot Logger a sign of dumbing down?
 
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5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:16:00 - [1]
 

I'm talking about one of the upcoming features of dominion if you happen to live under a rock.

Of course a lot of people will have knee jerked a positive response to this feature (and have) for how it makes their life easier and more risk free, rather than the big picture implications.

All I see in this feature is another scammer/thief mini profession wiped out.

An early response to this by CCP was the fleet doesn't have to have this loot logging option turned on, but what kind of fleet is never going to have this option on now?

Noone would join your fleet, the only reason you'd not have it on is you plan to steal from people.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a scammer, the only time I've really been scammed however would've been cancelled out by this feature, which is pretty sad, it was a nice lesson and a nice little bit of drama I remember in my eve life which could've been prevented by a little more organisation in the gang where people should've watched more carefully.

Life in Eve in another expansion is once again going to be a lot less dangerous where the chance for interesting things to happen is shortened down.

PVEing once again received another buff. Particularly wormhole gangs and mission gangs.

Devalueing the special trust bond between pilots in a sense, when you get the stage it starts to no longer become needed.

As a militia pilot I got the odd decent thing now and then, nothing to boast about that wasn't my share, I can possibly picture greedy FC's ordering assasinations of everyone in fleet who pick up something he wanted though which might be the one interesting side effect this creates.

I guess I'm wondering how long down the slippery slope we'll go before we get a warp to 0 autopilot or npc's all get their warp scrambers/disruptors taken off them.

no pants
Black Hawk Down Syndrome
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:23:00 - [2]
 

Your post is dumbing down this forum for sure

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:25:00 - [3]
 

A log does not reduce the risk, it merely shows you where you got screwed over.

Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:26:00 - [4]
 

Find officer item, drop fleet, scoop loot, log, re-log, "sorry i d/c"

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:26:00 - [5]
 

It'll still be possible to steal loot, you'll just be more likely to be caught.

Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:27:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: no pants
Your post is dumbing down this forum for sure



YOU LEAVE SPINDIZZY ALONE, YOU FECKLESS GUTTERSNIPE Evil or Very Mad


Anyway, this appears to be the way the game is headed, so just strap yourself in and feel the Gs ugh

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:32:00 - [7]
 

I wrote a long post here, but I think I will just say this:
EVE is dying - you might as well give me all of your stuff.

Steve Celeste
Overdogs
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:38:00 - [8]
 

The logs show nothing.










AMIDOINGITRITE GUISE??!?!?!

HEY YOU GUISE?



Sad

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:40:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
A log does not reduce the risk, it merely shows you where you got screwed over.


True but if you were to find anything, you're corp/alliance will likely now hold you to ransom over it or be kicked.

Originally by: Corduroy Rab
Find officer item, drop fleet, scoop loot, log, re-log, "sorry i d/c"


Laughing

----------------------------------

To be honest by far the best feature of loot logging for fleet for me and what makes it worth it, is logging who steals off fallen members of the fleet, including yourself WHEN it was a member of your own fleet and they don't give it back.

People who loot my wrecks and my friends wrecks without return will be subject to vigilantism. Twisted Evil

soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:45:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
A log does not reduce the risk, it merely shows you where you got screwed over.




If you think they are stealing something, kill them and find out. . . . pretty simple concept to me.

Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:51:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Abrazzar
A log does not reduce the risk, it merely shows you where you got screwed over.




If you think they are stealing something, kill them and find out. . . . pretty simple concept to me.


Or just cargo scan them?

Or do you just like blowing **** up?

Highwind Cid
Posted - 2009.11.23 17:04:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

Life in Eve in another expansion is once again going to be a lot less dangerous where the chance for interesting things to happen is shortened down.



So, EVE is becoming a lot less dangerous because now FC can see what you looted? A lot less seems to be a bit dramatic in my opinion.

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.11.23 17:14:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Corduroy Rab
Find officer item, drop fleet, scoop loot, log, re-log, "sorry i d/c"


If only they'd asked you before they bothered with doing the work.
I imagine a lot of FC's will have it switched off just to avoid that. They will be technically no worse off than they are today, but a lot worse off if even 10% of their people start this game after phase one of the battle.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.11.23 17:28:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Corduroy Rab
Find officer item, drop fleet, scoop loot, log, re-log, "sorry i d/c"


If only they'd asked you before they bothered with doing the work.
I imagine a lot of FC's will have it switched off just to avoid that. They will be technically no worse off than they are today, but a lot worse off if even 10% of their people start this game after phase one of the battle.



I think whole fleets fail cascading due to one members greed is pretty hilarious.

Br41n
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.23 18:22:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Iamien
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Abrazzar
A log does not reduce the risk, it merely shows you where you got screwed over.




If you think they are stealing something, kill them and find out. . . . pretty simple concept to me.


Or just cargo scan them?

Or do you just like blowing **** up?


Yep defo gonna waste a slot on a cargo scanner on pvp ships

RabbidFerret
Kinetic Cartel
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.11.23 18:33:00 - [16]
 

I love the idea of a loot logger. Seeing 100m loot items drop and knowing that one of the carebears in the alliance ran off with it makes me cry.

Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
Posted - 2009.11.23 18:49:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
Are features like the Loot Logger a sign of dumbing down?
Yes.

Does this scare you?

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.23 18:52:00 - [18]
 

Individual fleet members should have the option of turning off logging for themselves with no way for the rest of the members to notice. This would allow a would-be thief to steal even if the fleet is being logged.

With the above change, logging would become a utility rather than a security feature.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.11.23 18:53:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: 5pinDizzy
As a militia pilot I got the odd decent thing now and then, nothing to boast about that wasn't my share, I can possibly picture greedy FC's ordering assasinations of everyone in fleet who pick up something he wanted though which might be the one interesting side effect this creates.

I guess I'm wondering how long down the slippery slope we'll go before we get a warp to 0 autopilot or npc's all get their warp scrambers/disruptors taken off them.

Surprised Wow now thats pure troll perfection right there kids. We go from a benign loot log that shows what people got what mods to an insane fc who just happens to have an entire gang of insane members who will literally shoot their own gangmates over a meta 4 to ccp going nutter and putting in warp to zero auto whilst taking away points on npc.

5pinDizzy for Troll King! \o/

CavoFury1
It's A Trap
Posted - 2009.11.23 18:58:00 - [20]
 

If you played eve during the Beta, or early years, you'd not call EVE "dumbed down" now.

SOME things may have been simplified, but the overall game has only increased in complexity.

I recently was talking to one of my wifes coworkers at a company diner. He's a WOW player, and we got talking about MMO's.

I beta tested WOW and played it for a few months a year or two ago. So I knew the game. He didn't know anything about EVE.

As the conversation progressed, I realised how much EVE has changed. Sure it was hard in beta/first year, with no documentation, and the steep learning curve, but us Vets tend to forget the sheer complexity of EVE.

Any individual component can be "dumbed down" as you call it, but EVE as a whole just keeps getting more and more complex.


At a different company function we crossed paths again. He had started a trial account, then subbed.

He was asking questions about Cruisers, and Destoroyers, and how complex the mods were. Then I asked him about T2.. He had no idea what I was talking about. So we got talking about the t1/best named items, T2 items, and the differences in the meta levels.

Then I said something about recons, and we were off on T2 ships... Then about heat.. which lead to T3 ships, and their modular nature and so on..

His GF, who's played fantasy MMO's for over 15 years was listening, and she said the game sounded WAY too complex.


So if you think things are being "dumbed down", step back and take a REAL look at EVE.


Ships, mods, markets, mining, production, pvp, Sov, racial ships, weapons, worm holes, exploration, scanning, cap ships, super caps, and so on....

Trust me.. They could half the complexity of everything in the game, and it'd STILL be 4-5x more complex then most other MMO's.

Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2009.11.23 18:58:00 - [21]
 

honestly, isn't this making the game more dangerous?

Also it's 100% optional.

Something optional can never dumb down anything.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2009.11.23 18:59:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Corduroy Rab
Find officer item, drop fleet, scoop loot, log, re-log, "sorry i d/c"


You are an evil man.... Twisted Evil

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.11.23 19:02:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Peryner
honestly, isn't this making the game more dangerous?

Also it's 100% optional.

Something optional can never dumb down anything.

An FPS game has an auto-aim feature.. only if you turn it on.

Is it dumbed down? Or is it perfectly ok, since its optional?

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.23 19:03:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Peryner
Also it's 100% optional.

Something optional can never dumb down anything.

It's only 100% optional if the fleet members can turn it off without being detected. Now it's like 0.45% optional, since it's just the FC.

Atropos Kahn
Caldari
Imminent Ruin
Posted - 2009.11.23 19:23:00 - [25]
 

Shoot the wreck... Works everytime... Shocked



Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.11.23 19:35:00 - [26]
 

Because Of Loot Log. Eve is Dying. Mad

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.11.23 20:03:00 - [27]
 


Well they still haven't addressed the DKP issue.


Mukutep
The Freelancer's Mining Cartel
Posted - 2009.11.23 20:06:00 - [28]
 

If this log works anything like the logs GM's use to for ship reimbursement, then loot stealers have nothing to worry about.

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2009.11.23 20:22:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: 5pinDizzy

I guess I'm wondering how long down the slippery slope we'll go before we get a warp to 0 autopilot or npc's all get their warp scrambers/disruptors taken off them.


Ah, the much fabled slipperly slope. You gotta watch out for that one cause there is often the thin edge of a wedge at the bottom of it just to catch you out. And if you see any camels while you slide down the slope, you just know they will stick their noses in.

It don't matter what you call it, it is still a logical fallacy.

Ms. Dizzy, I suggest you go back to the WoW forums with you crap arguments. You will find a ready audience for such ****e there.

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.11.23 20:23:00 - [30]
 

"Insert" is dumbing down EVE? Pick any reason, it will frighten you. Rolling Eyes

Why is it everyone fears change. It doesn't hurt you, it only gives more risk involved when someone steals loot. Yes, you do need to have some risk involved like every other thing in EVE when your going to screw someone over by looting an item worth a few hundred million.


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