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blankseplocked [Proposal] Mechanic to fix "docking games"
 
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Mary Makepeace
Caldari
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:26:00 - [91]
 

nice idea.

ChronoLynx
Caldari
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:20:00 - [92]
 

Twisted Evil

Cassini Huygens
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:58:00 - [93]
 


Buggs
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:00:00 - [94]
 

signed

Tryptic Photon
Gallente
Mad Bads

Posted - 2009.11.20 15:05:00 - [95]
 

yep

Fish Mittens
Minmatar
0utbreak
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:13:00 - [96]
 

Definite Support.

I really like the idea of allowing gate / station aggro to be extended by shooting at players doing station games.

I would settle for a simple extension to the current aggro timer (3-5 mins) however if it meant we would have a change sooner. Sick of risk free pvp on stations.

Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:40:00 - [97]
 

Supported.

If the change requires an RP excuse for the error text try;

"Docking Permission denied, your ships shields are in a state of disruption due to recent combat. Station authorities would prefer it if the spatial distortion surrounding your ship did not tear a hole in the station interior. Have a nice day!"

Wink

Terai Hantir
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:41:00 - [98]
 


Tsubutai
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:45:00 - [99]
 

.

Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:59:00 - [100]
 

Docking games are poo - so most definitely yes.

The only thing I'd suggest adding (because from an immersion standpoint it's very cool) is that docking timers and the like from stations should be affected by the pilot's standing with the station owner and (in high sec and in some low sec stations) by sec status.

It makes sense that the Caldari Navy are going to cut some slack to the guy with the +9.5 standing with them and try and let him in faster if they can. He's a staunch ally after all.

Concord or the Spacelane patrol should probably think twice, even in low sec, from allowing some notorious -10 sec status pirate to dock.

Futuro Warr
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:09:00 - [101]
 

docking games are teh fail..... SUPPORTED

Lycastus
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:48:00 - [102]
 

A simple and elegant solution, gets my full support.

Also, on the subject of the problem of being indefinitely held by someone whom you can't kill, while being unable to dock... I don't really see the problem. This can (and does) happen in asteroid belts all the time, and has never really been a serious problem before.

In such a case, if someone can't outrun/destroy/jam/damp/neut/persuade/bribe the person who is tackling them, or call for friends to do the same, then they must face the reality of the situation: they're doomed, and have the option of self destructing if their assailant can't/won't finish them off.

Shamisen
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:58:00 - [103]
 

Good Stuff!

Layna Fraggs
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:03:00 - [104]
 

./signed

Given the simplicity of this it should be on sisi on monday and shiped to TQ via hotfix on tuesday next week.

Dante Karaal
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:11:00 - [105]
 

Excellent solution.

Everseeker
Caldari
Northgate
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:39:00 - [106]
 

I like this. I would add 1 thing though... the ability to "look out the window"
It is truly unnerving to undock (with no scouts outside) and to see 10+ reds wave at you... then shoot
while you scramble to hit the dock key (and pray you get back in b4 that wall-o-missles hit)

WHO designed the stations without them "transparent aluminum" panels????

Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:49:00 - [107]
 

Your solution does not fix the scenario you were complaining about in your original post.

Carriers repping a titan would not get an docking timer to start with so shooting the carrier would not extend timers in those cases.

A better solution would be for RR to get a docking timer ( 60 secs ) as aggression currently does.

Your solution is very bad, for reason some have pointed out.
Once you fire on someone , if they have a scrambler you wont be able to leave ever.
Your stuck there until downtime or until they run out of ammo if they dont have the dps to kill you or you kill them.




50K khouri
Gallente
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:56:00 - [108]
 

Supported, Nothing more boring than docking games tbh.

Seliah
Minmatar
Guillotine Therapy
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:41:00 - [109]
 

Awesome proposal. I wish i had more than 2 thumbs !

Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:50:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Dav Varan
Your solution does not fix the scenario you were complaining about in your original post.

Carriers repping a titan would not get an docking timer to start with so shooting the carrier would not extend timers in those cases.

A better solution would be for RR to get a docking timer ( 60 secs ) as aggression currently does.

Your solution is very bad, for reason some have pointed out.
Once you fire on someone , if they have a scrambler you wont be able to leave ever.
Your stuck there until downtime or until they run out of ammo if they dont have the dps to kill you or you kill them.

This question was brought up, previously. The timer resets for as long as you have an aggression flag. Once the aggression flag drops (15 minutes) the docking timer no longer resets. Which means that 16 minutes after your last shot, you will be able to redock. Alternatively, you can logoffski and your emergency warp will occur 15 minutes after your last shot, shaving off and entire minute! Wink

Regarding remote repair and aggression, it's possible I'm misunderstanding the current mechanics. I believe that repairing a ship that is aggression flagged (including, for example, a war target in empire space) gives you an aggression flags you against your target's opponents, thus allowing them to, for example, shoot at you for the next 15 minutes without risk of CONCORD.

Assuming this is true, then my suggestion mechanics will work as follows:
1) Ships A and B are fighting.
2) Ship C (otherwise neutral) begins to repair Ship B, thus getting an aggression flag with respect to Ship A. No timer is current set as no 'real' aggression has been made.
3) Ship A fires on Ship C. Since Ship C has flagged itself, it's docking timer is reset to 1 minute.
4) As long as Ship A continues to fire on Ship C, the timer will continue to reset, until 15 minutes after the last repair cycle Ship C makes.

It's been mentioned that ships in nullsec do not get aggression flags. I had thought that they got aggression flags but not criminal flags, and that the aggression flags were irrelevant in nullsec. If the current mechanics don't set an aggression flag in nullsec, then the simple solution might be to change that so that they do.

Lunewraith
Amarr
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:05:00 - [111]
 

Simple change, seems easy to implement. Going to be desperately needed in the age of docking Supercapitals. Easily supported.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:32:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Dav Varan on 20/11/2009 19:51:11
Originally by: Becq Starforged

This question was brought up, previously. The timer resets for as long as you have an aggression flag. Once the aggression flag drops (15 minutes) the docking timer no longer resets. Which means that 16 minutes after your last shot, you will be able to redock. Alternatively, you can logoffski and your emergency warp will occur 15 minutes after your last shot, shaving off and entire minute! Wink

Regarding remote repair and aggression, it's possible I'm misunderstanding the current mechanics. I believe that repairing a ship that is aggression flagged (including, for example, a war target in empire space) gives you an aggression flags you against your target's opponents, thus allowing them to, for example, shoot at you for the next 15 minutes without risk of CONCORD.

Assuming this is true, then my suggestion mechanics will work as follows:
1) Ships A and B are fighting.
2) Ship C (otherwise neutral) begins to repair Ship B, thus getting an aggression flag with respect to Ship A. No timer is current set as no 'real' aggression has been made.
3) Ship A fires on Ship C. Since Ship C has flagged itself, it's docking timer is reset to 1 minute.
4) As long as Ship A continues to fire on Ship C, the timer will continue to reset, until 15 minutes after the last repair cycle Ship C makes.

It's been mentioned that ships in nullsec do not get aggression flags. I had thought that they got aggression flags but not criminal flags, and that the aggression flags were irrelevant in nullsec. If the current mechanics don't set an aggression flag in nullsec, then the simple solution might be to change that so that they do.




Currently - When you shoot someone there flag is reset to 15 minutes as well as yours iirc.
Or I am I thinking of something else /me scratches head.

and yeah there are no aggression flags in null. to much calculations for the servers me thinks.

Realy even 15 minutes if its made to work like that is a bit much to have someone else dictate your own game experience.
1 minute should be fine for killin something if you have appropriate fp.

Its only RR'rs that can insta dock and its only RR'rs that need fixin imho.


I have another objection as well
Example

Starbuck -
"Galactica this is Starbuck, were down to throwing rocks at the bastards, were coming in hot, request clearance for combat landings to the port flight pod"

Galactica Actual -
"Sorry Starbuck, you've been engaged in hostile actions against Cylons, please wait outside for 15 minutes before we allow you to land."



Ok enough of the BSG analogies.

Any docking timer should only occur at NPC stations.

An outpost is a very expensive corporate/alliance asset.
As such it should be a position of strength to fight from.

An outpost should never refuse docking request from a member of its controlling corporation / alliance, live fire/ RR or whatever that pilot has been doing.









Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:16:00 - [113]
 

Great idea!

Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:36:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Dav Varan
Any docking timer should only occur at NPC stations.

An outpost is a very expensive corporate/alliance asset.
As such it should be a position of strength to fight from.

An outpost should never refuse docking request from a member of its controlling corporation / alliance, live fire/ RR or whatever that pilot has been doing.

Can you imagine any means by which a large alliance (one that can field a sizeable capital fleet) could ever lose an outpost system, if the defenders can play capital fleet docking games with 100% free, nearly instant (30 second) repairs? Frankly, I see this as a far more important problem than the current docking games. High-sec docking games are boring and annoying. Sovereignty docking games will be (in my opinion) game-breaking.

Berendas
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:23:00 - [115]
 

Supported with all my heart, this stupid mechanic is what has been keeping me out of empire wars. There's no reason for such a feature in the game and something must be done.

ragnarok92
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.21 02:52:00 - [116]
 

Well thought out, balanced, and most importantly, do-able.

Supported

Aniel Zaar
Gallente
BIG
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:49:00 - [117]
 

Supported. Effective and simple, as all good solutions are.

Kura Accipter
The Littlest Hobos
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.11.21 14:04:00 - [118]
 

Supporting this great idea

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.21 17:05:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Becq Starforged
Can you imagine any means by which a large alliance (one that can field a sizeable capital fleet) could ever lose an outpost system, if the defenders can play capital fleet docking games with 100% free, nearly instant (30 second) repairs? Frankly, I see this as a far more important problem than the current docking games. High-sec docking games are boring and annoying. Sovereignty docking games will be (in my opinion) game-breaking.


Oh, that's easy. You stick 27 Titans outside the front door, and nuke any ship that pokes its head out, cap or no cap. It'd be like the camp of PR-, except you'd need a couple trillion of ships, and you'd have to do it for every single outpost you want to take. That sounds like fun, right?

Ffreyn Moonflower
Caldari
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2009.11.21 18:31:00 - [120]
 

fully support this solution


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