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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:45:00 - [181]

Edited by: Orthaen on 18/11/2009 22:03:08
Edited by: Orthaen on 18/11/2009 21:59:02
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by:
Originally by:
That said, having to haul 200 freighter-loads of crap from Empire in only one week during the grace period is terrible. If the size of hubs could be reduced a bit, or the grace period extended, that'd be nice. GS has a fairly compact little empire close to hisec, I shudder to think what far-flung alliances such as Atlas, AAA and the dronies will have to suffer through.


Apparely you dont need anything but ihub to make sov and all the other stuff work now eh? Did you even look at all the other upgrade mods required to get systems anywhere close to what they are today?

Stop the stupid, please. You dont need an ihub for sov. At all. 100% optional. You need a TCU. Good thing CCP is putting one of those in every single claimed 0.0 system for free. don't need...anything, to get sov to where it is today. Cool. A system with 0 upgrades will be identical to a system with the current system. If you choose to drop a cyno jammer in every system, thats your choice I guess. If its such a big deal, set up a few temporary jump bridges to get freighters within a short distance of every system. That was hard, huh? Oh yeah, and the goal of this expansion is to make you fatties shrink down, even if it will fail miserably at that goal.

And again, for the 15th time, in every single dominion thread. 0.0 IS NOT FOR MAXIMIZING ISK/HOUR! It has never been, it will never be. 0.0 is about FUN. It's about owning space, and kicking the ass of anyone and everyone that ****es you off. Its about doing whatever you want to do in eve. Thats what games are for. FUN. Does your poor shriveled goon-heart not remember what it is to log in to EVE and have a good time?

Move to jita and become a trader for ****s sake, and enjoy making the maximum amount of isk/hour the game offers. Also, stop *****ing.

edit time: For the many lemmings jumping on the "I won't know if someone is in an anomaly!!!!!!" This is entirely different from belts right now, which send out a system wide warning any time someone is ratting in them. I have an idea. Try communication. Ask. Use words, and acknowledge the fact that multiplayer games are occasionally designed to reward cooperation. Even if that cooperation is as a simple as "Hey, what anomalies are being run right now?"

Is there anything that will delay some of these sites from showing up during the course of the day, or are those of us in the US with euro alliance mates just S.O.L for mining in the near future? How much time would it take roughly to mine out a site with four or five hulks?
Once the military section of the hub is upgraded to Level 5, do you get 20 level 5 CA's or 5 level 1, 5 level 2, 5 level 3, etc.?

They have compared these belts to w-space belts. You don't mine out w-space belts, it just doesn't happen, not with a 10 man, orca boosted hulk fleet mining 23/7. I don't think you have to worry about these being cleared out in a single day.


And, most wars last for months. Say we're successful in a war....but afterwords all of our levels have decayed! We just won a war, should be sky high, then realize our space decayed to a level that can't support us.

So...please remove it or make the decay go down 1 level after 3 weeks or so.

CCP has stated that they want alliances that are 95% military to suffer, and suffer hard. Recruit some people that want to grind, or tough **** is basically their goal with the new system. Right now there isnt a lot of incentive to have people in your space that can't fight to defend it. Now, they've added one. Those poor carebear pilots contribute by increasing your indices, and keeping them high when you're off PvPing. Recruit them, or don't. Your choice, as always.

Lastly, TCUs/SBUs/Ihubs etc. are all priced roughly in the range of a large POS, supposedly.. SBUs a bit lower, perhaps.

University of Caille
Posted - 2009.11.18 21:58:00 - [182]

cool, I would rather had seen level 4 agents in 0.0 but it looks really good : )

just take one thing into account for a second...
If or when you ever release agents in 0.0 space.. would you be doing so on TOP of the sites? would that be way to much money?
If the agents gave more money than the sites would people stop running them? If the agents don't pay enough would they never be used??

Here is my solution to future proof the agents in 0.0 idea : ) Make them real missions!

But... wait.. what? real missions?

ok hear me out. Agents in 0.0 could be set up by alliance members.

Kinda doing the same role as contracts.. but cooler : )

So you could set up delievery missions. And mining missions. So there could am mission to mine ice. The reward is paid out of the alliance wallet. Then there could be a mission to deliever said ice to another system. There could be missions to fuel POS.

Maybe whenever a STOP (sorry still stuck on old terms :P) is planted a new agent could spawn automatically, thus giving incentive to the carebears to defend the system. The Allaince could set the reward pay out.

I don't know.. I'm just saying make sure agents don't do the same thing as what you've desided on for this expansion.

: )

and thank you for making 0.0 more profitable than high sec.. I hope.

Honest Smedley
Posted - 2009.11.18 22:01:00 - [183]

Edited by: Honest Smedley on 18/11/2009 22:03:18
CCP: Don't front-load the cost entirely upon the TCU. Split it 5/3 million isk per day on the TCU/iHub.


The iHub is a defensive structure, like it or not, as it makes conquest of a system considerably more time consuming with one than without. If you're going to price things so low as to continue having alliance sprawl anyway, at least make clearing out the unattended 'outer ring' of a 0.0 empire less of a mind-numbing experience.

Killing TCUs is much quicker than killing TCUs + iHubs. Make alliances pay for that defensive upgrade.

PS: Make jump bridges cost more please.

Edit: Units mean things. Use the right ones.

The Maverick Navy
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.18 22:16:00 - [184]

Originally by: Honest Smedley

PS: Make jump bridges cost more please.

My understanding is that jump bridges will also continue to require a large POS, a Jump Bridge module and it to all be fueled. This adds to the cost as well.

Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.18 22:23:00 - [185]

Originally by: Peryner

But... wait.. what? real missions?

ok hear me out. Agents in 0.0 could be set up by alliance members.

Kinda doing the same role as contracts.. but cooler : )

would you pubbies stop suggesting this stupid, stupid idea it has never been a good one and never will be

Posted - 2009.11.18 22:39:00 - [186]

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

The anomalies available increase in quality with the upgrades. So at level five, you will have more and better anomalies available. There are some low level ones in there as well that can be done by relatively young players, so the benefits aren't restricted to older players.

"some low level ones as well" how many? is it still a mixed bag just a bit less so?

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

It's a massive misconception that anomalies are not profitable. As said before, the top ones (which you'll have permanently available through the top tier upgrades) isk for isk match the most profitable missions, and certainly blow ratting out of the water.

Added to that, we're looking at more ways to improve on the planned content, hopefully building on the foundation we're laying now.

is it possible for faction and officers to spawn in anomalies or for hauler spawns in the mining ones? if so are they there at the start or do they come after clearing it? how long after clearing it?

Xyclon B
Posted - 2009.11.18 22:44:00 - [187]

Where can I find an updated list of costs to ONLINE the new sov structures?

For instance it costs 84,000,000 ISK to online a TCU, this comes out of the corp wallet rather than the alliance wallet. What about the other structures like the SBU and Infrastructure Hubs? Do they have an initial cost to online them?

Also, what is the upkeep cost for the Infrastructure Hub? It wasn't listed in the Dev Blog, does that mean there isn't any?

Posted - 2009.11.18 22:58:00 - [188]

Edited by: Daln''oboi on 18/11/2009 23:02:10
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

3. We have not been able to re-do POSs as of right now, but hopefully we will be able to accomodate them better to their new role in the future. Their vulnerability, especially in terms of building supercaps, is intended.

Could you kindly tell us, explicitly, what will happen with current sov-level based POS fuel bonus, in Dominion?

Edit: retracted - answered in the comments thread for the previous Abathur blog, it's 25% flat fuel bonus for POSes in system with your sov.

Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2009.11.18 23:04:00 - [189]

one question:

how does a EU or US timezone alliance want to take an outpost of off a US or EU timezone alliance?
with a 2h diversion and no chance to kite it?

Baljos Arnjak
Posted - 2009.11.18 23:04:00 - [190]

Here's a question that I haven't seen considered yet. Can combat scanner probes find CA's?

If they CAN then you can tell if a CA is occupied or not.

1. Launch probe set to max range to find all CA's in the scan area.
2. Since you always get 100% hits on CA's, you can go down to min range/max strength to see if anyone is in there
3a. If there is no one there, then right-click - warp
3b. If there is someone there, then move to the next hit on the list. Shouldn't take more than 20-30 seconds per CA, but it would get old fast if you are always find occupied CA's.

If combat probes can't find CA's, then carry both core and combat probes. Once you locate all the CA's, switch to the combat probes and check to see if anyone is there.

Just a thought for those who are worried about constantly running into CA's that are already occupied.

November Corporation
Posted - 2009.11.18 23:05:00 - [191]

The old ISK values were the only reason the new system could be called better over the current one, and now they're gone.

Given how much of a direct economic impact this will have on the game (isk sinks and all that), I would be very interested in hearing what your chief economist has to say on the matter, assuming he was consulted.

Changed the reinforcement variance timers on Outposts and Infrastructure Hubs from four hours to two hours.

And I disagree with this change, more variance would've been a good thing. Or if you're going to keep it at two hours, the timer should only be an estimate and the real exit time should not be revealed. This type of mechanic helps in the prevention of blobs.

Black Omne
Posted - 2009.11.18 23:10:00 - [192]

Originally by: Sellmewarez
First of all, thanks CCP for listening to us all.

These changes are definately a step in the right direction. Its still not perfect by any stretch and theres a few things that don't appear to quite add up but at least its more of a solid base to work from.

This of course can be changed based on feedback and testing in the future, which at least we know is happening now Smile

I agree totally, this is a step in the right direction. But having I-HUBS only seeded in empire, and being 750,000 m3 is going to restrict the people who can actually move them to the large alliances with Titan Jump Portals and existing Jump Bridge Networks. A small/medium alliance, or an alliance without these things has a pretty poor chance of escorting a freighter far into 0.0 carrying *1*
hub. The existing power blocks will have a huge advantage during the grace period to stock up on hubs.

Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.18 23:25:00 - [193]

Hello Abathur and Soundwave. I enjoy your posting and I believe you should post more. In fact, I go so far as to suggest you never stop posting.

This is much better information on the rewards of building up 0.0 than chronotis' trainwreck of a blog. My one point I want to make is that with R64s being nerfed, alliances will probably have to raise taxes to maintain alliance income, so please keep tax rates in mind when doing calculations for 0.0 individual isk/hour generation and ensure that it is still lucrative enough to make people want to live in 0.0 and not run L4s on alts in safety.

Hugs and kisses

StarForged Universal Assembly
Posted - 2009.11.18 23:35:00 - [194]

when will we be able to try these new features on the test server?

Aprudena Gist
Posted - 2009.11.18 23:43:00 - [195]

Edited by: Aprudena Gist on 18/11/2009 23:42:46
Originally by: OzDeaDMeaT
when will we be able to try these new features on the test server?

They wont ever be because you have to gain sov and have these stupid things running for 100+ days to actually see any of these kinds of improvements so its only avaliable in theory and you will never get to test or see anything before its live. CCP is a bunch of liars and it wont work like they are saying but it will be far too late then.

Posted - 2009.11.19 00:01:00 - [196]


These are chance-based on signatures to gain access to DED complexes. Every level of upgrade increases your chances of finding both a signature and a higher level DED complex. Upon completion of running the site, there is the possibility of finding another one (no waiting until next downtime).

Will this work in the drone regions?

Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Posted - 2009.11.19 00:18:00 - [197]

At this point, I like most of the changes being made. However, I (like others) have a serious concern about the massive threat of docking games vis-a-vis sovereignty wars. The likelihood of entire capital fleets -- up to motherships! -- playing docking games to get instant free repairs makes me shudder.

Please consider fixing docking games as soon as possible to address this issue. Here is a suggestion that I've made previously and have reposted as a candidate fix for Dominion Docking Games:

As a more minor issue, I agree with those who are disappointed by the downtime-triggered respawns including in some of the new mechanics (as well as existing mechanics). Instead of respawning at DT, consider queuing the respawn to occur at a pre-calculated time along the lines of 12 hours +/- 6 hours (ie, 6-18 hours). If there is a chance of respawn each DT, run the calculations in advance do determine the number of DTs until the next 'hit', then replace the last DT with the above 12 hours +/-6 relative to 'now'.

This would eliminate post-DT farming of certain things and would continuously rotate which TZs got new spawns.

Titan Pilot
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.11.19 00:19:00 - [198]

Edited by: Titan Pilot on 19/11/2009 00:26:17
Step in the right direction. Hope to see a bit more details.

Sun Ra
Euphoria Released
Posted - 2009.11.19 01:01:00 - [199]

Originally by: Dianabolic
Soundwave dear boy, I have a question with regards your anomalies:

Have CCP done any number crunching as to how much isk would be generated through a fully upgraded system? 20 insta-spawning plex's sounds, to me, like an awful lot of cash flooding in to the system. Knowing just how much my corp alone could milk out of these I would not be surprised to see at least 500m PER DAY being milked out of these systems in pure bounties.

How is this going to affect the economy of EvE? Just running on "doily maths" this is going to lead to MASSIVE inflation, isn't it? Making the isk people do have, now, completely worthless within 100days when everyone becomes a billionaire from npc'ing?

Has any consideration been given to follow the drone region model, whereby you don't get any bounties (or certainly a vastly reduced one) but the meta-drop levels are increased dramatically? Or increased salvage? The cost of upgrading these systems to handle this look to be around ~1bn per month - using the above that's just two days of npc'ing for a corp, the rest going back in to empire to further inflate prices of *stuff*.

I sincerely do hope that some serious consideration has been given to this isk-tap because in all the notes I've seen for dominion there is nowhere near the kind of isk-sink that would be required to balance out such as HUGE influx of isk.

Thanks in advance of an answer that isn't an anomaly!

CCP gave in to lazy whiners dood

Posted - 2009.11.19 01:09:00 - [200]

Edited by: Killljoy on 19/11/2009 01:09:49
The decay of indices takes place gradually, but if all of a particular activity-based index completely stops, you can expect to lose one level of an index approximately every four days.

Will the current upgrades continue to work if the activity level drops below the installed upgrade?

Sun Ra
Euphoria Released
Posted - 2009.11.19 01:10:00 - [201]

Really it should cost more, couple of class 5/6 WH's a month can cover costs easy

Great Big Research
Posted - 2009.11.19 01:42:00 - [202]

I strongly suggest that ccp upgrades some systems to lvl 5 in all levels so we can see what we are getting. altho the mining upgrade sounds nice ish, im still very unimpressed by the npcing upgrade.

sound wave u seem convinced the the top tier anomaly's are better than we think but my experience of them differs (i admit ive not ran them since they were first introduced). i`d very much like the chance to test them on sisi.

Darth Sith
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.19 01:43:00 - [203]

Edited by: Darth Sith on 19/11/2009 01:45:41
Was loving it up until I came to the hidden asteroid belts respawning from at DT. What is to stop the same old issue we run into all the time in North American time zones where by the time we log in and warp to a belt all of the roids are mined and only crap is left over ?

can we not have it so 50% spawn at 12 hr intervals ? That would address TZ based access in one shot.

At first glance .. Awesome sauce slathered over all the rest of it though ;)but I am going back to re-read everything in detail just in case :)

Posted - 2009.11.19 02:05:00 - [204]

Few things here...
Sounds like a good patch, a few worried people should be a bit less worries...CVA in particular, past the basic defences of the system - ie owning sovereignty and having an i-hub not having to pay anything for the indices upgrades means that although they are not earning as much from their space as other alliances, they are not paying to have this option available. Plus with the most outpost-heavy sovereignty they just became the hardest alliance to wipe out (i presume the only reason for this being the first post since dominion blogs started coming out that hasn't included official statements from CVA).
Secondly there seems to be a lot of people saying 'a few people running level 4s will cover this in a couple of days' exact quote but the idea is there...since when has anyone not in a small corp given their entire earnings of an hour+ to their corp...especially at an alliance level?
Thirdly, the way you have dealt with time-zone ping-pong is magical, it forces alliances to either branch their alliance out to encompass different timezones (obviously reducing the amount of people they can field in one massive blob) or suffer because of it
Anomalies i will reserve judgement until i see something...preferably they should pay either a reliable high end lvl 4 income or just above lvl 4 income to cover the increased risk, but the likelihood of that is low.

The only problem i foresee is the motivation to take somebody elses territory, other than the eternal 'for sh*ts and giggles'
Military superpowers are not going to want to give up the empire-adjacent high-POS count, relatively secure systems for care-bearville. Especially in the current coalition system.

My personal suggestion is random eve-mails being sent saying 'so and so has attacked your system, war has been declared'

William Caldon
Golden Cross Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.19 02:06:00 - [205]

Edited by: William Caldon on 19/11/2009 02:09:21
Edited by: William Caldon on 19/11/2009 02:06:38
Originally by: Nightbird
My question concerns jump bridges and their associated costs:

TCU: 6m ISK / day
Jump Bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno Generators: 2m ISK / day
Cyno Jammers: 20m ISK / day
Capital Ship Assembly Arrays: 1m ISK / day

Modules like Jammers, Beacons and CSAA are things that are solo-system only. You live in a system, invest in the TCU, rat and mine the hell out of it, decide you want to drop an outpost egg, put up a beacon for your caps and a jammer to keep the bad guys out.

Bridges, on the other hand, are unique in that they require both an end point and a starting point... in order for one of these things to work, you need both a start point and an end point.... which essentially doubles all the associated costs.

You need to pay to claim 2 systems worth of Sov (2x TCUs) and then pay what is essentially TWICE for the single "bridge" connection.

Would it not make more sense to reduce by half the cost of the bridge, so that you're paying 10 mil for 2-system set, as opposed to 20mil per 2-system set.

I understand and agree with the idea of incremental costs of ownership, but at this price the bridge seems to be "double dipping".

Keep up the hard (and often thankless!) work.


No, my opinion of Jump Bridges is they need a serious nerf. Too many alliances depend on these modules to hold their space. I've felt that it should be either a higher isk cost or some sort of vulnerability beyond current. Now, you'll have to think of how many you want and how they'll be setup. Not spam-to-death. (yes, I am kidding about that last part)

@dude above: a lot of wars have been fought over things other thank isk/hour. IE: BOB VS GOONS. You cannot seriously tell me that Bob fought Goons over Goon's "valuable" space....There are plenty of other examples.

Megan Maynard
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2009.11.19 02:07:00 - [206]

Originally by: Retar Aveymone
Originally by: Megan Maynard
This system sucks and everyone knows it.

All it's doing is replacing Pos's with other items, that take longer to kill.....

Wooooo lots of fun.

There is nothing allowing a small sized group to do anything against a hardened target without placing the equivalent of a large pos into their system announcing, "Hey over here, we just threw down this big ass thing and we totally can't defend it because you outnumber us 100:1"

Awesome job replacing a boring system, with a more complex boring system that still doesn't allow anyone without a 50+ man fleet to do jack against an opponent except blow up their ships. (Which is what we do anyway for fun)

did you really think that a group outnumbered 100 to one should be able to take sov? I mean seriously that's just absurd

No, reading comp is important right? I don't want to take sov, I want to be a thorn in someone's side beyond just blowing up ships.
But nope, everything is still at pos's or invunerable unless you anchor one/more then one equivalent of a large pos.

Sharp Feather
POS Builder Inc.
Silent Requiem
Posted - 2009.11.19 02:10:00 - [207]

Thank you very much CCP for listenning to your players and thank you very much for trying hard to make 0.0(or EVE) a place better to live for pirates as well as carebears or even miners.

I also love that you specified what you changed from the players feedback. Irt should always be that way, the more obvious, the better it is and make some people realise that you guys work hard and try to please your fans at a maximum. It also mean you saw my thread about it, or I just got lucky. :P

TLDR: Keep doing your best even if some people think its not good enough... <3 Very Happy

Posted - 2009.11.19 02:22:00 - [208]

Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 19/11/2009 02:09:21

@dude above: a lot of wars have been fought over things other thank isk/hour. IE: BOB VS GOONS. You cannot seriously tell me that Bob fought Goons over Goon's "valuable" space....There are plenty of other examples.

May have edited the quote a bit wrong...apologies if i did...I guess that would be in the 'sh*ts and giggles' part...admitedy i didn't think of bad diplomacy or someone declaring they are going to take over all of 0.0 and the other guy doesn't exist. My bad Very Happy but i think this is much less likely now that a lot of alliances are in coalitions

Isaac Starstriker
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.11.19 02:34:00 - [209]

Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 19/11/2009 02:34:24
Originally by: Switowski
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 19/11/2009 02:09:21

@dude above: a lot of wars have been fought over things other thank isk/hour. IE: BOB VS GOONS. You cannot seriously tell me that Bob fought Goons over Goon's "valuable" space....There are plenty of other examples.

May have edited the quote a bit wrong...apologies if i did...I guess that would be in the 'sh*ts and giggles' part...admitedy i didn't think of bad diplomacy or someone declaring they are going to take over all of 0.0 and the other guy doesn't exist. My bad Very Happy but i think this is much less likely now that a lot of alliances are in coalitions

Here is some info: CCP cannot change people's behaviors. If everyone wants to be one massive NAP train, then CCP cannot do anything about it (or else the game would be very unfun). They've said this multiple times in the past. So if Goons, -A-, Drone Regions and everyone wants to be one massive happy family, then there is nothing they can do about it.

Nothing whatsoever. (would be boring as hell though...)


Ramman K'arojic
Posted - 2009.11.19 03:00:00 - [210]

With respect to how often things Spawn and de spawn.. I dont really care on how often.. I take your best judement..

What do care about and get really Sh*ty about is that always resetting these things on DT means that players who log on say 1 hour before DT are stuffed around and disadvanated

Be creative let these things spawn for 24 but start from a random start time. May be have a period of 6 hours with none.. Or a period with 2.

(PS why your there do this for WH's as well - it would make your TZ poor people less disadvanated)


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