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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2009.11.18 22:55:00 - [31]
 

Eve endgame is getting taunted by Mittani on ten ton hammer, then logging in to the forums because the Nalg is being nerfed again and you totally specced for this in like 2007.

Zun thar
Posted - 2009.11.19 00:29:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Zun thar on 19/11/2009 00:29:46
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
Originally by: Zun thar
Edited by: Zun thar on 18/11/2009 19:05:23
Originally by: Alezander Jagen
Eve endgame = more experience and more money (at least I hope you have more money) than when you started.

0.0 is not endgame. You could potentially be 2 minutes old and join a 0.0 alliance. Eve = sandbox, and thus has no endgame. Find something you enjoy doing. Do that until you're bored with doing it. Find something else, do that. Get bored, take a break from eve itself. Rinse, repeat.

What you're asking is for us to create you an endgame. We're giving you what it actually is-choices.


I'm not asking for anything, just wanted to know what i am going to find in terms of player tendancies.

My last game, Pirates of the burning Sea, has the best damn pvp combat you will ever find in an MMO, but %90 of the population was made up of unskilled gankers and failboaters. I left and came here because i was sick of spending most of my time PRAYING i'd run into someone with the skill and balls to give me a good fight.

I came here simply due to the large population.. figuring i would find more action.

It is my experience that in a pvp game with a fairly complex combat engine, the majority of the population will end up rolling in gankpacks looking for low risk situations and avoiding any significant risk. This is not good gaming, and if that is also the case here in EVE, i'd rather not invest thousands of hours of my life before finding the same problems.



In eve, winning in PvP means someone else lost out. Not just lost in the FPS deathmatch sense where you respawn 5 seconds later with the same equipment but lost as in lost weeks worth of work and never getting it back. That's what makes it more exciting and more interesting. The problem with fair fights is that it gets people killed. If you want to honor tank, fight fair and duel you can always drop cans in high-sec and hope. There's no PvP flagging, no duel mechanics, no laws except concordokken. Fairness is nothing but a set of artificial rules that only matter if all parties abide by them. Now excuse me while I go boom-headshot someone's little monopoly on T2 ammo for their region.


Believe it or not, EVE is not the only MMO with loss-based pvp.. i come from a game where i've had ships that took me a month to build melted in seconds and gone forever.

My issue with these games is people playing like there precious pixels are worth anything if not used in battle.
I guess most people, regardless of the front, are in it for the stuffs more than the thrill of the fight, sadly.

Oh well.. ima give it a go and see how i like it as theres nothing else good to play atm :D

ObiTwo Kinobi
Posted - 2009.11.19 00:51:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Kirana Si

The reality is:

- you join an corp/alliance in 0.0
- if there is no major war going on you go roam in hostile space to gank carebears with 20% of your alli m8s while the other 80% of your alliance carebear and get ganked by hostile roaming gangs YARRRR!!, then they start whining on forums why there are no defense gangs to defend them.
- when a major war starts you are forced to join defense/offense fleets if you online while others who have out of corp/alli alts just play on them to be able to still carebear
- whining on your alli forum starts
- in these fleets you wait hours for your enemy/or your FC to grow some balls, that normally happens 5min after you logged bored to hell off
- more whining on your forum + lots of flames from your enemies on CAOD over leaked intel from spys within your alli
- the "in your alli" carebears will also stock your local hub with overpriced stuff to make a decent profit over your losses
- rage/sarcasm/motivating speeches from your alli leader on your forum
- when shiat hits the fan and you lose your space the carebears leave your corp/alli, buy off all firesales from PVPers only to join the now new spaceholder and the story starts again

Thats how EVE endgame works.


Someone give this man(most likely a man) a freaking medal of honor. This is how 0.0 alliances work and that is the life of EVE. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Sani Oska
Posted - 2009.11.19 00:58:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Sani Oska on 19/11/2009 01:01:18
Originally by: Zun thar
I'm not asking for anything, just wanted to know what i am going to find in terms of player tendancies.


Yes, there is small gang pvp and solo pvp in the end-game. Just ask Ephemeron. Back in the day he solo wardec'd entire Band of Brothers alliance and has been flying faction battleshisps pvping in 0.0. Then there are groups like Burn Eden. I don't now what they are up to now back back in the day they were known for coming in with small gangs and totally harassing the **** out of various 0.0 alliances in their territory.

Just don't join a space-holding 0.0 alliance because the way 0.0 space holding works out is that they need to gather huge blobs to hold it. Join a corp that PVPs for fun or profit: mercs, pirates, 0.0 NPC region dwellers.

Originally by: Zun thar
My issue with these games is people playing like there precious pixels are worth anything if not used in battle.
I guess most people, regardless of the front, are in it for the stuffs more than the thrill of the fight, sadly.


You misunderstand. It is not the virtual pixels that matter to people. It is their time. Time is a precious commodity and the only thing that matters, not pixels. Now you can spend your time gathering pixels, which is boring, or using pixels in PVP, which is fun. Most people prefer the later option and as such they often pick rick-free PVP that does not lead to them losing the pixels so that they have to spend another month gathering them.


SATAN
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.19 01:57:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Sani Oska
Edited by: Sani Oska on 19/11/2009 01:01:18
Originally by: Zun thar
I'm not asking for anything, just wanted to know what i am going to find in terms of player tendancies.


Yes, there is small gang pvp and solo pvp in the end-game. Just ask Ephemeron. Back in the day he solo wardec'd entire Band of Brothers alliance and has been flying faction battleshisps pvping in 0.0. Then there are groups like Burn Eden. I don't now what they are up to now back back in the day they were known for coming in with small gangs and totally harassing the **** out of various 0.0 alliances in their territory.

Just don't join a space-holding 0.0 alliance because the way 0.0 space holding works out is that they need to gather huge blobs to hold it. Join a corp that PVPs for fun or profit: mercs, pirates, 0.0 NPC region dwellers.

Originally by: Zun thar
My issue with these games is people playing like there precious pixels are worth anything if not used in battle.
I guess most people, regardless of the front, are in it for the stuffs more than the thrill of the fight, sadly.


You misunderstand. It is not the virtual pixels that matter to people. It is their time. Time is a precious commodity and the only thing that matters, not pixels. Now you can spend your time gathering pixels, which is boring, or using pixels in PVP, which is fun. Most people prefer the later option and as such they often pick rick-free PVP that does not lead to them losing the pixels so that they have to spend another month gathering them.




We are still here, and the only thing that has changed is the size of our targets. Now not only do we fight the local blob, but the other blobs they napped with.

Oh and we stopped posting about it, cause every time we did CCP would nerf something we did with a sledgehammer. So we locked our KB and stopped posting about the stuff we are doing, that way its not as easy for the morons that work for CCP to nerf our way of eve life yet again.

Titan Pilot
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.11.19 02:10:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
LOL, isn't that the truth about null sec. Good reason guys like me avoid it in the "end game." I spent my first year in a mix of high and null sec. I did some missioning, some mining, some alliance warfare (great way to go broke and be bored at the same time) and a bit of high sec griefing. After all that I moved to low sec piracy and have enjoyed it greatly. Sometimes I fly with fleets of up to 10 ships, most of the time I fly solo or with 1-2 buddies.

Realistically, low sec pvp consists of:

1) You locate 2 day old rookie who doesn't know what low sec is and waste him with your ship (doesn't matter which, you can't go wrong). It's fun if not particularly challenging.

2) You locate a 4 month old character in a mission, your buddy probes him out and you attempt to ransom him. 80% of the time he won't pay so you end up popping him. Loot is almost always trash, sometimes it's worth 2 billion isk though. Good times either way.

3) You camp a gate, staring at it for 3 hours only to watch a blockade runner laugh at your futile attempts to kill him. You log off bored and empty handed.

4) A lone unsupported capital ship undocks from your home station, you bump him off station and beat the crap out of him. He may or may not pay a ransom. Either way that's the highlight of the next month or two.

5) You find a "noob" in a belt and melt his face.

6) You attack a "noob" in a belt only to have 15 of his buddies suddenly appear in system. Oops!

7) You attack a "noob" in a belt and actually get killed by him 1v1, or 4 of you vs him.

8) Sometimes you are the above "noob."

In any case, it's typically fun and you can make a living in game off it. It does have times where you are bored silly though. I spent 4 hours online earlier this week and did nothing but stare at rocks, a gate and the inside of the station cause not a single player entered my low sec pocket. Other days I kill 15 ships in 2-3 hours and make a billion isk. Alternatively you may lose that much too.


Copy and paste this into your bio and then compare in 3yrs. Not prety, not nice, just EVE.

Lex Alandar
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.19 02:18:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Zun thar
Believe it or not, EVE is not the only MMO with loss-based pvp.. i come from a game where i've had ships that took me a month to build melted in seconds and gone forever.

My issue with these games is people playing like there precious pixels are worth anything if not used in battle.
I guess most people, regardless of the front, are in it for the stuffs more than the thrill of the fight, sadly.

Oh well.. ima give it a go and see how i like it as theres nothing else good to play atm :D



You're in the right game, don't give up!

You'll find the way you want to play, just make sure you don't waste time carebearing it up right now. Burning out on grinding NPCs is hardly a good way to remain interested for the average pvper. Best thing to do is spend all your isk on t1 frigates, have 1 fallback ship for isk-making only, and start killing ****!

There are plenty noob-friendly corps out there who are always looking for another tackler. Send me a mail if you'd like a recommendation.


Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2009.11.19 03:20:00 - [38]
 

The endgame is different for every person. For some people, it's attaining a certain amount of wealth (IE, getting 1 trillion ISK in their wallet). For others, it's training every single skill in the game. For others, it's joining a 0.0 alliance. For others, it's being able to afford to PvP regularly in officer fit faction battleships without resorting to PLEX.

SomebodyKickedMyDog
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.11.19 16:16:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Zun thar

I'm not asking for anything, just wanted to know what i am going to find in terms of player tendancies.

My last game, Pirates of the burning Sea, has the best damn pvp combat you will ever find in an MMO, but %90 of the population was made up of unskilled gankers and failboaters. I left and came here because i was sick of spending most of my time PRAYING i'd run into someone with the skill and balls to give me a good fight.

I came here simply due to the large population.. figuring i would find more action.

It is my experience that in a pvp game with a fairly complex combat engine, the majority of the population will end up rolling in gankpacks looking for low risk situations and avoiding any significant risk. This is not good gaming, and if that is also the case here in EVE, i'd rather not invest thousands of hours of my life before finding the same problems.



Zun, I know I already mentioned this, but check out red vs. blue...Really...The point of it is not have FUN in the form of GOOD pvp. It's a lot more fun than much of the other 'that's eve; eve is harsh,' 'no one's going to fight fair,' 'your tears fuel me' type of pvp in the game.

Marcus Atntony
The Element Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.19 19:11:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Mrs Snowman
You'll never be financially ready.

Dont make the mistake of farming missions for years in hi-sec. Once your able to farm level 4's solo then your ALWAYS going to have a good fallback should the worst happen.

But if you get yourself into a 0.0 corp then you'll find that ISK is not hard to make, thats why when some people go there they never come back.

0.0 to me is end game.. well, its also beginning of the game really. Its the beginning of the end ;)

Dare to be bold pilot


perfect answer

Jessica Lorelei
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.19 21:51:00 - [41]
 

there is no end game, you can be in 00 from day 1 and conversely still in empire in year 5

Dr Karsun
Gallente
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Posted - 2009.11.19 22:14:00 - [42]
 

Well, it all depends on you really. There is, in sov holding alliances, or even alliances holding a big territory, often a need for a small gang to rush and catch other small gangs here and there, finding small pvp is not hard, it's almost a daily need.

Bigger fleets and gangs are rarer the bigger they are. Finding a 1000+ man fleet just... Didn't happen to me yet. Although seeing a fleet of 100+ is nothing really special during a weekend.

It's your choice really. Find the corp, find the alliance and join the fun of small/med/big/CPU-crippling sized fleets and go hunt.

Hunting solo is meh... Boring... (in my opinion)

Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Posted - 2009.11.19 22:34:00 - [43]
 

With un-ending character progression and the sandbox play-style, how can someone impose a concept such as 'endgame' upon EVE? Question

Vidi Angelus
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:05:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: ObiTwo Kinobi
Originally by: Kirana Si

The reality is:

- you join an corp/alliance in 0.0
- if there is no major war going on you go roam in hostile space to gank carebears with 20% of your alli m8s while the other 80% of your alliance carebear and get ganked by hostile roaming gangs YARRRR!!, then they start whining on forums why there are no defense gangs to defend them.
- when a major war starts you are forced to join defense/offense fleets if you online while others who have out of corp/alli alts just play on them to be able to still carebear
- whining on your alli forum starts
- in these fleets you wait hours for your enemy/or your FC to grow some balls, that normally happens 5min after you logged bored to hell off
- more whining on your forum + lots of flames from your enemies on CAOD over leaked intel from spys within your alli
- the "in your alli" carebears will also stock your local hub with overpriced stuff to make a decent profit over your losses
- rage/sarcasm/motivating speeches from your alli leader on your forum
- when shiat hits the fan and you lose your space the carebears leave your corp/alli, buy off all firesales from PVPers only to join the now new spaceholder and the story starts again

Thats how EVE endgame works.


Someone give this man(most likely a man) a freaking medal of honor. This is how 0.0 alliances work and that is the life of EVE. I couldn't have said it better myself.


Speak for yourself, None of these points have applied to my alliance in the last year.

(except prehaps the 80/20 point, but thats largely the fact that not everyone has the time to PVP 24/7, you can carebare while watching tv and be semi-afk, you can't do the same with PVP- for the most part)

just because your 0.0 alliances suck doesn't mean that all 0.0 are a chore.

Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.11.20 11:06:00 - [45]
 

One of the things I hated about EverQuest was my inability as a casual gamer to ever get to the endgame. I'd hear about the uber mobs requiring endgame guilds to defeat; eventually I'd get to that high level and be in one of those guilds--only the bar for "endgame guild" had risen, the max level had risen, and what I'd considered the uber mob was now sitting in lonely majesty, as everyone was going to the new dungeons from the latest expansion where all the real good loot dropped. For years my gameplay was more of a grind.

When I joined EVE, I determined to erase "endgame" thinking from my play. I determined I would just do what was fun. Within a couple of months I discovered that fun for me was lowsec piracy. I couldn't fly an Ishtar then, but I had fun in my Incursus. I have no more fun now in my Ishtar. My target selection has changed, my strategy and tactics have changed, but they have not reached some endpoint. I fully expect that in the future I will be able to fly a wider variety of ships and more powerful ships than I fly now; I see no reason I should be having more fun then than I have now.

For me, the "end" is having more choices (due to more skills)--but even now some days I hop into an Incursus and challenge myself by trying to kill a battlecruiser. One set of choices you expand with time has to do with "choosing your fights." In the early days, that meant constantly moving around, making new safe spots, and watching local like a hawk. With time I've added raw speed, covert ops cloaking devices, friends to cover my back, and more intimate knowledge of the locals and their preferred tactics. I can't imagine the time when my ability to choose my fights will be completely taken away, and I'll be at the mercy of The Blob.

And if I ever get bored with lowsec piracy, why all the other opportunities in EVE remain--I could get rich through nullsec mission running! I could build a powerful alliance! I could manufacture T4 battlestars! I could win the alliance tournament! I could pull off the biggest scam in EVE history! My pilots will never get arthritis, will never get stuck in a dead-end career, will always have the ability to get the skills to do whatever anyone else is doing.

You know what really puts a big smile on my face as I fall asleep each night? If I ever do stop playing EVE, it will probably be because something better has come along.

Nigel Sheldon
Caldari
Skaro Mining Reborn
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:27:00 - [46]
 

endgame? - brilliant episode of Babylon 5 if i recall.....
John Sheridan launches a final battle to liberate Earth.

The episode opens with Marcus watching over the terminally injured Ivanova who is about to be transferred back to Babylon 5 before the final battle against Earth. Though Marcus protests, arguing that Ivanova would want to be present for the final battle, Delenn tells him that she will be more comfortable and safe on the station. Meanwhile, on Mars, Franklin and Lyta oversee the mission to transfer thirty Shadow-modified telepaths on an Earth fleet orbiting Mars while Garibaldi leads a strike team to secure the storage depot supplying the fleet.

Onboard his former ship, the EAS Agamemnon, Sheridan prepares his forces to attack the fleet orbiting Mars so that he will not be outflanked when attacking Earth. Aboard the EAS Apollo, General Robert Lefcourt commands the Earth-loyalist fleet. In a discussion with the Apollo's captain, he reveals that he fights out of duty to Earth, not out of personal loyalty to President Clark, and because he taught Sheridan and understands his tactical style.

In a coordinated attack, Garibaldi transmits jump coordinates to Marcus' White Star which jumps into the Martian atmosphere to attack ground targets. The loyalist fleet initially turns to attack Mars, but Lefcourt recognizes this as a diversionary tactic and orders the fleet to hold position. Sheridan's fleet jumps into Mars-space with instructions for only the Earth ships and White Stars to engage the loyalist fleet, while ships from the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, Minbari, Centauri, and Narn fleets provide tactical support without taking the offensive. The loyalist fleet prepares to engage, but many of the ships are suddenly disabled and dead in space. Lyta has telepathically awakened the telepaths that have been smuggled onto the fleet which have merged with the computer systems of the fleet, disabling them. Sheridan engages those ships not disabled by the telepaths, destroying engines and weapons systems to avoid killing their crews. He orders the White Stars and his Earth ships to jump to Earth while the remainder of the fleet stays behind to secure the disabled destroyers and assist with repair and recovery as needed. Onboard the Apollo, Lefcourt determines that they must be the victim of sabotage. They quickly discover the telepath disrupting their systems, kill him, and begin repairs.

While en-route to Earth, Marcus examines medical records from Babylon 5 to try and determine if there has been any discovery which might help save Ivanova's life. He discovers a record of the alien healing machine discovered in The Quality of Mercy. He abandons the fleet and sets course for Babylon 5.

Sheridan cannot divert his attention from the mission at hand, and proceeds to jump into Earth-space. He broadcasts a stirring speech calling for the people to rise up and arrest President Clark, disband Nigh****ch, and restore democracy. Emboldened, people led by Earth Senator Crosby walk to President Clark's office. Clark activates the planetary defense grid which begins to engage Sheridan's fleet. As people begin beating at his door, Clark commits suicide using a PPG, leaving behind a cryptic suicide note that eventually translates as "scorched earth". Before killing himself, Clark turns the defense platforms towards Earth. The defense platforms are capable of destroying 40% of the planet's surface. When relayed the information, Sheridan quickly orders all ships to destroy the platforms. He calls in Delenn, who arrives with the combined fleet to assist.

Ships of every race engage the defense platforms, destroying many but taking significant casualties. The Agamemnon is severely damaged in the attack, losing weapons capability. One of the few remaining platforms begins to power up targeting the eastern seaboard of the United States. With no nearby ship capable of destroying the platform, Sheridan orders ramming speed. The Agamemnon speeds towards the platform when at the last moment the Apollo emerges from hyperspace and destroys the platform. Having seen Clark turn the defense platforms against Earth, Lefcourt welcomes Sheridan home.

While Sheridan prepares to meet with members of the restored Earth Alliance government, Franklin commands a White Star returning to Babylon 5. He has learned of Marcus' discovery of the alien healing device and is attempting to stop him. In fact, he is too late. Marcus uses the machine to transfer his life energy to Ivanova. Close to death, he tells an unconscious Ivanova that he loves her.


Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:03:00 - [47]
 


You're all only half right.

The end game in Eve is to build an Empire, be it in 0.0, a criminal empire or a business empire.

CCP designed Eve so that at some point in your empire building, you can go no further without getting friends and/or alts

And contrary to popular belief, the end game is often achieved by players.

Typically players who reach their end-game get bored with then maintaining their empire. From constantly spending all their time putting production jobs on for a million and one manufacturing alts, or grinding sov wars to keep their space.

Afterall, in Civilisation, once you've launched your spaceship and the game asks "Do you want to continue?" you invariably don't, even if there are still other civ's to destroy, land to colonise/settle etc. You start on a new map from stone age, or go play another game

Babel
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:51:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Mrs Snowman
0.0 to me is end game.. well, its also beginning of the game really. Its the beginning of the end ;)


Hmm ... I veer more towards 'The End of the Beginning' :)

Once you're quite happy in 0.0/W-space/lowsec/hisec the cluster is your proverbial oyster and you can start thinking of cool stuff to do anywhere you like ...


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