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Darlhim
Posted - 2009.11.16 06:24:00 - [1]
 

What drones should i be using for pvp with an incursus/ishkur? I looked around and the favorite seems to be warrior IIs, is that due to their better tracking and speed?

Morgan La'Chance
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.16 06:41:00 - [2]
 

Speed and explosive damage.
Hobgoblins have thermal damage (which is widely tanked against) and highest damage modifier.
Hornets have kinetic damage (good damage type, but not as needed as Explosive if your weapons already deal kinetic) and are inbetween Warriors and Hobgoblins for speed and damage mod.
Acolytes aren't very good in 9/10 cases.

Jared Wheeler
Posted - 2009.11.16 06:42:00 - [3]
 

yes

SwineFlu H1N1
Posted - 2009.11.16 07:42:00 - [4]
 

Warrior II's. Just make sure you have your drone skills up, especially Drone Interfacing V.

Shazard
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2009.11.16 08:18:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Shazard on 16/11/2009 08:19:55
Originally by: Darlhim
What drones should i be using for pvp with an incursus/ishkur? I looked around and the favorite seems to be warrior IIs, is that due to their better tracking and speed?


Warriors II is must need drones if you have space in your dronebay and you don't have other means of killing potential enemy ceptors. Warriors II in 9/10 cases heals ceptor disase!

So good Ishkur pilot would have 5x Warriors II and 5x Hobgoblins II, ofcourse Ishkur with 5x Hammerhead II is neat stuff, you don't expect Cruiser or Battle Cruiser potent load of drones from frigate size ship! It can be nice WTF moment, but then you are chewable by any fast frig or ceptor, on the other hand, ceptor pilots knows very well that Ishkur is very dangerous to them, so probably won't engage you, so Ishkur with Med drone is nice cruiser killer.

Update: And don't forget that Warriors II are effective antidrone drones!

Psiri
Posted - 2009.11.16 13:48:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Shazard
So good Ishkur pilot would have 5x Warriors II and 5x Hobgoblins II, ofcourse Ishkur with 5x Hammerhead II is neat stuff, you don't expect Cruiser or Battle Cruiser potent load of drones from frigate size ship! It can be nice WTF moment, but then you are chewable by any fast frig or ceptor, on the other hand, ceptor pilots knows very well that Ishkur is very dangerous to them, so probably won't engage you, so Ishkur with Med drone is nice cruiser killer.

Update: And don't forget that Warriors II are effective antidrone drones!


Uhm, yea... or you just have 9 x Warrior II (training up AF V for an ishkur is quite pointless tbh) as you will need spare ones. Also, uhm, if an Ishkur unleashed five hammerheads on me that would be a "WTF" moment indeed, because it only has a 25m2 bandwidth. This makes me question how much you really know about this matter.

Darlhim
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:27:00 - [7]
 

is it worth training minmitar drone specialization to level 5 at some point or just got to 3 or 4? For the time it takes i doubt its really worth the 2%... drone interfacing on the other hand totally worth it.

i am going to train drone interfacing to 4, and hold off on 5 for a little bit just because i am still a new character and there are other skills i can train in 22 days that will benefit me more at this time then 20% damage to drones.

I cannot fly the ishkur yet, i am not going to train it until i am truly ready.

Shazard
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:27:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Psiri
Originally by: Shazard
So good Ishkur pilot would have 5x Warriors II and 5x Hobgoblins II, ofcourse Ishkur with 5x Hammerhead II is neat stuff, you don't expect Cruiser or Battle Cruiser potent load of drones from frigate size ship! It can be nice WTF moment, but then you are chewable by any fast frig or ceptor, on the other hand, ceptor pilots knows very well that Ishkur is very dangerous to them, so probably won't engage you, so Ishkur with Med drone is nice cruiser killer.

Update: And don't forget that Warriors II are effective antidrone drones!


Uhm, yea... or you just have 9 x Warrior II (training up AF V for an ishkur is quite pointless tbh) as you will need spare ones. Also, uhm, if an Ishkur unleashed five hammerheads on me that would be a "WTF" moment indeed, because it only has a 25m2 bandwidth. This makes me question how much you really know about this matter.


My Fault.

Psiri
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Darlhim
is it worth training minmitar drone specialization to level 5 at some point or just got to 3 or 4? For the time it takes i doubt its really worth the 2%... drone interfacing on the other hand totally worth it.

i am going to train drone interfacing to 4, and hold off on 5 for a little bit just because i am still a new character and there are other skills i can train in 22 days that will benefit me more at this time then 20% damage to drones.

I cannot fly the ishkur yet, i am not going to train it until i am truly ready.


Unfortunately the Ishkur is quite skillpoint intensive (and expensive I might add) and requires a heavy investment into the drone department in order to make it work well (in addition to everything else that an AF needs). I'd say don't leave home without at least Drone Interfacing V, all supportskills at IV and Drones+Scout Drone Interfacing V. Even then you have a fair bit left to train, but you should at least be doing somewhat ok.

The racial drone specializations shouldn't be a primary concern to get to V, neither Drone Durability (good skill, just not worth getting to V at this early stage) or Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing.

Combat Drone Operation is well worth it, Sharpshooting (only a tier 1 skill afterall) and Drone Navigation aswell. Just keep in mind that Navigation, Gunnery, fitting, capacitor and Mechanic skills are just as important. It can be a good idea to train up Shield Management to IV aswell for a bit of extra EHP.

In order to prepare for flying an Ishkur I recommend flying alot of T1 frigates solo, hopping into a Vexor is probably a good idea aswell and I think you'll actually fare much better in a Vexor than in an Ishkur.


cho0li0
Gallente
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:48:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Darlhim
What drones should i be using for pvp with an incursus/ishkur? I looked around and the favorite seems to be warrior IIs, is that due to their better tracking and speed?
If you skip Sentry Drones and Fighters, you do not need any other than Gallente and Minmatar drones.

Amarr and Caldari small, med and heavy drones are crap.

In PVE you use the drones by this rule, if it's angels, use Minmatar, if not, use Gallente Very Happy



In PVP I usually go warriors as smalls and hammerheads as meds, but with Domi or Ishtar it doesn't matter since you can take so large variety of drones with you Laughing

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:48:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Darlhim
is it worth training minmitar drone specialization to level 5 at some point or just got to 3 or 4? For the time it takes i doubt its really worth the 2%... drone interfacing on the other hand totally worth it.


I'm sitting on 9.7 mil in drone SP and haven't taken any specs to 5. Let's just say there are better things to spend time on.

Originally by: Darlhim
i am going to train drone interfacing to 4, and hold off on 5 for a little bit just because i am still a new character and there are other skills i can train in 22 days that will benefit me more at this time then 20% damage to drones.


Don't hold off too long. It really is one of the most worthwhile skills in the game and is absolutely invaluable to an Ishkur/Vexor/Ishtar/Domi pilot.

Darlhim
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:56:00 - [12]
 

well i my scout drones 5 finishes tonight and i will be able to finally use T2 drones.

Since i am flying an incursus right now and can only use one drone, i am going to spend 4 days on small hybrid 5 so i can use T2 guns to help me out a bit.

After that its drone interfacing 4 time.

is gunnery 5 necessary at this point? i have gunnery 4. I am not looking to move to the ishkur for a decent sum of time. Just to train for it will take me another 18 to 24 days.

Zaius Caine
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:40:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Zaius Caine on 16/11/2009 15:43:44
From what it sounds like you just arent ready to undock that Ishkur just yet. Ishkur is by far the most skill intensive AF in game and you'd better be sure you have the right skills for it or you will lose it very quickly. Drone Interfacing 5 is a must, you can get by with the rest of your drone support skills at 4 but I recommend training them to 5 also.

When it comes to gunnery, you need to make sure you have the ability to at least use t2 guns but I also recommend getting all your gun support skills to 4 or 5 before undocking. Most Ishkur tank with a small armor rep, EANMII and DCII so you need to make sure you have the needed skills trained for that as well, along with support skills.

And lets not forget about propulsion and tackle. Dont use fail AB fits on an Ishkur, go for MWD. Also make sure you have your Propulsion Jamming up so you can tackle.

Of course, with all these mods you will have to get your fitting skills up as well...

You have chosen a wonderful ship but dont try to cut corners on the training or you can plan on dying horribly again and again. Good luck.

Foulque
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:08:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: SwineFlu H1N1
Warrior II's. Just make sure you have your drone skills up, especially Drone Interfacing V.


Yeah Drone Int 5 is a necesssity for T1 frigs and AFs Neutral

Caldari Citizen4714
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:47:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Originally by: Darlhim
is it worth training minmitar drone specialization to level 5 at some point or just got to 3 or 4? For the time it takes i doubt its really worth the 2%... drone interfacing on the other hand totally worth it.


I'm sitting on 9.7 mil in drone SP and haven't taken any specs to 5. Let's just say there are better things to spend time on.
Seconded.

20 days for like 3 DPS? I think not.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:16:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Foulque
Yeah Drone Int 5 is a necesssity for T1 frigs and AFs Neutral


T1 frigs? Of course not. Ishkur? Oh hells yes.

I'm not one of those "if you're not within 5% of EFT DPS with your skills don't undock" types. But Drone Interfacing for an Ishkur? It seems like a no-brainer. 20% increase in damage from drones on a drone ship seems like a big deal to me....

(Before any math didact comes in, yes, I'm well aware that the actual increase from 4 to 5 is 11.11%. The point still stands.)

James Tritanius
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:18:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Originally by: Foulque
Yeah Drone Int 5 is a necesssity for T1 frigs and AFs Neutral


T1 frigs? Of course not. Ishkur? Oh hells yes.

I'm not one of those "if you're not within 5% of EFT DPS with your skills don't undock" types. But Drone Interfacing for an Ishkur? It seems like a no-brainer. 20% increase in damage from drones on a drone ship seems like a big deal to me....

(Before any math didact comes in, yes, I'm well aware that the actual increase from 4 to 5 is 11.11%. The point still stands.)


Which is close to.... +7-8% of your total dps.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:33:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: James Tritanius
Which is close to.... +7-8% of your total dps.


And people will pay how much for an implant that does the same?

Just suck it up and train DI 5. It's worth it.

Darlhim
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:52:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Darlhim on 16/11/2009 18:10:31
I am DEFINITELY getting DI 5, my argument was that it is not worth getting before i have the ishkur because i can only field one drone from my ship right now. (Incursus) and i only have 1.6 mil SP right now, 800,000 of which is in learning.

For 22 days of training time, their is more effective skills i can train for a new character that will keep me alive longer than a 11.1% increase in damage will serve me. Once i am ready to field the ishkur, my next step will be to train DI 5.

As of now, i have almost all prerequisites for the ishkur to 4, and in 4 days i will have both T2 Hybrid guns, and T2 drones.

I was thinking maybe i should field a thorax for now, with a swarm of T2 drones on board with light guns as kind of a frigate killer...


I do not plan to be flying around in an ishkur for probably at least 2 months.



Am i better off moving into a thorax or staying with a frigate like the incursus?


I think a vexor with 15 T2 Light drones would be pretty cool lol. Just unleash the bee hive of drones...

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2009.11.16 18:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Darlhim
I am DEFINITELY getting DI 5, my argument was that it is not worth getting before i have the ishkur because i can only field one drone from my ship right now. (Incursus) and i only have 1.6 mil SP right now, 800,000 of which is in learning.

For 22 days of training time, their is more effective skills i can train for a new character that will keep me alive longer than a 11.1% increase in damage will serve me. Once i am ready to field the ishkur, my next step will be to train DI 5.


Totally reasonable. Sounds like you ought to concentrate on lots of core skills as well; Ishkurs can be a ***** to fit properly (at least for PvP; PvE setups are a little more forgiving as you can step down from a MWD to an AB).

Originally by: Darlhim
Am i better off moving into a thorax or staying with a frigate like the incursus?

I think a vexor with 15 T2 Light drones would be pretty cool lol. Just unleash the bee hive of drones...


Methinks you're missing a few things. First, no ship (leaving capitals and unavailable trophy ships aside) can field more than five drones. Second: drones require bandwidth, which is an inherent ship attribute. So fielding 15 drones is quite impossible.

As far as what to step into next? The Vexor is the right choice if you want to go the drone route. Thorax is neat and all but it mostly focuses on guns and not drones. Yeah, it can field (umm, from memory; I don't fly one) five medium drones, but it gets no bonuses for them and is outclassed in many ways by the Vexor. IIRC, the Vexor is also a bit cheaper.

Furthermore, the Thorax only gets bonuses to medium guns, not smalls. The MWD bonus is nice but it won't help on missions on bit as they simply don't work there.

The Vexor gets a bonus again to medium guns, but also gets a bonus for all drones. So fitting a Vexor with small guns and drones ends up being quite a bit better than fitting a Thorax in the same manner.

It's been awhile since I've tried to fit a Vex and don't seem to have any saved in EFT so I whipped this together as a possibility:

[Vexor, missions easy on fitting]
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
N-Type Kinetic Hardener I
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array

150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

Clocks in at 25 million ISK and is cap stable (albeit with my skills; might want to check with yours although there is some overhead room). Should fit easily. Ideal for L2 missions at least. Most DPS comes from drones. You could throw a salvager or a tractor beam in the last high if you'd like.

For PvP.... Well, I'd stick to your Incursus for now. Cheapier, easier to fit, etc.


 

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