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Adyriana
Posted - 2009.11.13 17:44:00 - [1]
 

'Large amounts' of water on Moon

After NASA's little stunt last month, they have now found a good amount of ice on the moon. This was announced 18:00 gmt+1 today. This increases the chances of us actually witnessing a moonbase in a 20-30 years from now.

karma militia
Posted - 2009.11.13 17:59:00 - [2]
 

I call bull**** on this. It is more about securing future funding than any legitimate "finding"

Just examining the experiment makes me wonder how they could reach such a conclusion. It is not exactly a complete sample.

And those who have followed the drahma of this little test, well, goodbye science, hello corporatocracy.w

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2009.11.13 17:59:00 - [3]
 

I wouldn't be surprised if the moon soil at that site is still drier than the sands of the Sahara. Knowing there's water is one thing, getting equipment up there to strain it out from the dust is quite another.

Hijax Class47
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:17:00 - [4]
 

I don't think there will be bases on the moon, more like giant billboards first.

THE L0CK
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:28:00 - [5]
 

I'm working on winning the lottery so I can them build a giant plastic dish on one side that will be visible from Earth. Also may have them add a trench that runs along the equator of the moon.
Then when people talk about the moon I'll stop them and say THATS NO MOON!

Niltag Llednew
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:10:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK
I'm working on winning the lottery so I can them build a giant plastic dish on one side that will be visible from Earth. Also may have them add a trench that runs along the equator of the moon.
Then when people talk about the moon I'll stop them and say THATS NO MOON!


ROTFLMMFAO!!!!!!!

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2009.11.13 23:22:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Hijax Class47
I don't think there will be bases on the moon, more like giant billboards first.


I for one support the terrorists going after the corporations violating the surface of the moon.

Adyriana
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:28:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Hijax Class47
I don't think there will be bases on the moon, more like giant billboards first.


I for one support the terrorists going after the corporations violating the surface of the moon.


you mean those little craters we've created that's 20-30 meters in radius which is 100% totally visible from earth with the naked eye?

Nigel Sheldon
Caldari
Skaro Mining Reborn
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:58:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK
I'm working on winning the lottery so I can them build a giant plastic dish on one side that will be visible from Earth. Also may have them add a trench that runs along the equator of the moon.
Then when people talk about the moon I'll stop them and say THATS NO MOON!


you sir just won one internet...

http://giveupinternet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/you-won-free-internet.jpg

CCP StevieSG

Posted - 2009.11.14 11:16:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK
I'm working on winning the lottery so I can them build a giant plastic dish on one side that will be visible from Earth. Also may have them add a trench that runs along the equator of the moon.
Then when people talk about the moon I'll stop them and say THATS NO MOON!


Oh lols... Laughing

Natasja Podinski
Posted - 2009.11.14 14:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK
I'm working on winning the lottery so I can them build a giant plastic dish on one side that will be visible from Earth. Also may have them add a trench that runs along the equator of the moon.
Then when people talk about the moon I'll stop them and say THATS NO MOON!


i demand the explain for this so that i can larf

Elukka
Posted - 2009.11.14 15:21:00 - [12]
 

A Moon base is not going to happen any time soon because NASA (nor any other space agency) has the money to even go there.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.14 15:29:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Natasja Podinski
Originally by: THE L0CK
I'm working on winning the lottery so I can them build a giant plastic dish on one side that will be visible from Earth. Also may have them add a trench that runs along the equator of the moon.
Then when people talk about the moon I'll stop them and say THATS NO MOON!


i demand the explain for this so that i can larf


I think he is reffering to the Death Star ugh


Slade

Mia Zheng
Caldari
Frozen Forge
Posted - 2009.11.15 12:54:00 - [14]
 

pfft, China are probably going to get a moon base first....

karma militia
Posted - 2009.11.15 12:57:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: karma militia on 15/11/2009 12:57:36
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Natasja Podinski
Originally by: THE L0CK
I'm working on winning the lottery so I can them build a giant plastic dish on one side that will be visible from Earth. Also may have them add a trench that runs along the equator of the moon.
Then when people talk about the moon I'll stop them and say THATS NO MOON!


i demand the explain for this so that i can larf


I think he is reffering to the Death Star ugh




Ooooooh....

...

laff! Very Happy

Axel Strom
Posted - 2009.11.15 13:18:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Mia Zheng
pfft, China are probably going to get a moon base first....



Gah! Damn commies, etc.


I mean, that is where you were going with this, right?

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2009.11.15 15:54:00 - [17]
 

Finding water on Mars and the Moon are probably two of the most important discoveries made by man kind. It means we can go there and stay there, at least long enough to get started.

There are plans now to first put a colony on the Moon and then after that begin thinking about visiting Mars. Unfortunately long term plans require a continued effort and there isn't anything I can readily think of ... that is more expensive than space exploration. So ... we'll have to see how all this works out ... or not ... some of us may still be alive when some of these things happen but some may not.

Long term ... very long term ... it would be beneficial to humanity to not have all it's eggs in one basket (that basket being this planet). The only way to do that is to find other places to live. Unfortunately there isn't another planet just like this one ready at hand so ... the first places we go are going to be hard to settle ... and we may not pull it off before we are destroyed.

*shrug*

So ... this is really good news. However expensive creating our first off planet settlement might be - it will cost one hell of a lot less if we don't have to haul all our water up there with us.


The biggest obstacle we face is that, while they don't blink an eye at having their citizens slaughtered on the highways every year ... modern industrial societies have an extreme aversion to taking casualties in anything that actually accomplishes something. If you look at the opening of the new world people died in droves to accomplish that and kept right on dying right up through WWII. The thing is ... the baby boomer generation, spoiled by parents who didn't want it to suffer like they had ... has drastically changed in their willingness to risk their lives - or anyone's life - in order to accomplish things. There is an attitude that we are supposed to be able to do dangerous things - with no consequences, an idea that if anything goes wrong - that this is outrageous.

Ah well ...


This is good news. We'll just have to see what's done with it.




ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2009.11.15 19:05:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Finding water on Mars and the Moon are probably two of the most important discoveries made by man kind.


I don't know, but it would seem that fire, the wheel, mathematics, the written word should rank higher than some damp patches on some distant dustballs. I'd like to hear your ideas on how you'd extract water from dirt which is drier than any desert on Earth, because it's not a trivial problem.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.11.15 19:10:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Finding water on Mars and the Moon are probably two of the most important discoveries made by man kind.


I don't know, but it would seem that fire, the wheel, mathematics, the written word should rank higher than some damp patches on some distant dustballs. I'd like to hear your ideas on how you'd extract water from dirt which is drier than any desert on Earth, because it's not a trivial problem.
Laughing

Wouldnt recycling the water we use be more efficient?

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2009.11.15 19:12:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Lance Fighter
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Finding water on Mars and the Moon are probably two of the most important discoveries made by man kind.


I don't know, but it would seem that fire, the wheel, mathematics, the written word should rank higher than some damp patches on some distant dustballs. I'd like to hear your ideas on how you'd extract water from dirt which is drier than any desert on Earth, because it's not a trivial problem.
Laughing

Wouldnt recycling the water we use be more efficient?


Quite, and we could do that without knowing there's local water.

Lt Forge
Pilots Of Honour
Aeternus.
Posted - 2009.11.15 19:25:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Axel Strom
Originally by: Mia Zheng
pfft, China are probably going to get a moon base first....



Gah! Damn commies, etc.


I mean, that is where you were going with this, right?



You do know that there are Germans on the dark side of the moon right?

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.15 19:44:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: goodby4u on 15/11/2009 19:57:47
Edited by: goodby4u on 15/11/2009 19:46:41
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Finding water on Mars and the Moon are probably two of the most important discoveries made by man kind.


I don't know, but it would seem that fire, the wheel, mathematics, the written word should rank higher than some damp patches on some distant dustballs. I'd like to hear your ideas on how you'd extract water from dirt which is drier than any desert on Earth, because it's not a trivial problem.
The problem is not extracting the water, but finding the energy to extract the water.

Simple way of taking water out of sand in a space situation is to cook it and extract the steam, which ofcourse takes energy so the process begins to make little sense.

And after all that you still need to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen so you can breath, and have energy. The entire process probably will take more energy then it gives.

This all being said, this is still an amazing discovery and should, in some way, help our future endeavors into space.

EDIT:As far as funding goes, nasa is massively under funded.

In 2008 NASA received 17billion worth of funding by the United States government. That same year our military received over 800billion worth of funding by said government.

But ofcourse America is known for military spending, well let's compare them to some other agency...

US postal service was granted 82billion in 08. Laughing

Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
Posted - 2009.11.16 04:45:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK
I'm working on winning the lottery so I can them build a giant plastic dish on one side that will be visible from Earth. Also may have them add a trench that runs along the equator of the moon.
Then when people talk about the moon I'll stop them and say THATS NO MOON!
Wonder how many cans of grey spray paint it would take to spray paint the moon into a death star.

Or would it be cheaper to build some gigantic plastic rail batteries that we could anchor around it? Laughing

Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:12:00 - [24]
 



It's all NASA's fault.



Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2009.11.16 19:23:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Adyriana
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Hijax Class47
I don't think there will be bases on the moon, more like giant billboards first.


I for one support the terrorists going after the corporations violating the surface of the moon.


you mean those little craters we've created that's 20-30 meters in radius which is 100% totally visible from earth with the naked eye?


Are those billboards?

Villa Wolfsbane
Amarr
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2009.11.18 14:00:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: goodby4u

In 2008 NASA received 17billion worth of funding by the United States government.



17 billion and they still didn't think it worth building a mothersupercarrier

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2009.11.19 07:20:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Lance Fighter
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Finding water on Mars and the Moon are probably two of the most important discoveries made by man kind.


I don't know, but it would seem that fire, the wheel, mathematics, the written word should rank higher than some damp patches on some distant dustballs. I'd like to hear your ideas on how you'd extract water from dirt which is drier than any desert on Earth, because it's not a trivial problem.
Laughing

Wouldnt recycling the water we use be more efficient?





1) NASA knows more about water extraction than I do. I thought of the cooking method. I don't know what they'll use.

2) Power - undoubtedly - like everything else we put in space that isn't running on rocket fuel - it will come from the sun.

3) You can use the sun to heat things.





Yes, there are a number of other things that are important in mankind's history - but these - the discovery of water on other planets - ranks right up there with them. If you can't see that - you're not half as clever as you think you are.



Of course - none of that means we'll be successful in establishing colonies on the Moon and Mars. Even with the water there - it will be horrendously expensive and short sighted people will always have some where else to spend the money. Never the less, we are tremendously better off having water there - than we would be if we had to haul it all in.

Ultimately - what you want - is for your colonies to be self sufficient. That is going to take a lot more than water but water is an essential.

Oh ... and yes ... of course they will have water reclamation projects - but you have to have water to reclaim in the first place. The first people we send will largely have to exist on what they can bring with them - but - once they get a method of acquiring water from a local source - then that's that much less water subsequent arrivals will need to bring along.

We can visit Mars and the Moon with what we can bring along but settlements are going to be vastly easier to maintain if we don't have to bring along all the water they will need.



goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.19 07:46:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Villa Wolfsbane
Originally by: goodby4u

In 2008 NASA received 17billion worth of funding by the United States government.



17 billion and they still didn't think it worth building a mothersupercarrier
This may be true, but I don't see the post office delivering stuff via titan.

Epegi Givo
Amarr
Department of Redundancy Dpt.
Posted - 2009.11.20 05:23:00 - [29]
 

If the LHC thing helping create hyper-drives theory is true then I can easily imagine us settling on other planets/large moons in our solar system.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:33:00 - [30]
 

Right now, we have to major hurdles.


1) Technological
2) Financial

The financial is probably the more serious as with enough money technical problems are more easily over come.

If you look at space - as soon as someone figures out a way to make money up there - then there's a lot of progress. Look at all the satellites we've got up now. Back in the days of Sputnik launching a satellite was a really big deal. Now it's routine and there's plenty of money available for launching satellites into earth orbit.

Finding a way to make a settlement on the Moon or Mars profitable is the real key but I for one, am at a loss to think what it is they could do that would have a direct financial reward back here on earth. There have always been a lot of spin offs from space technology but trying to get investors interested on the assumption that there will be spin offs ... isn't as as likely to induce them to cough up some dough as a direct, immediate return on their investment.

The thing is - we're probably going to have to go there and it may be some time afterward before any profit making avenues are discovered. Thus, any settlements on other planets are likely to be loss leaders for a good long time.

In the mid term, self sufficiency is going to be the best we can hope for.

Short term ... we'll be lucky to get the things started. There's a horrendous start up cost and ... always the possibility of a failure that gets a bunch of people killed ... which would really set things back if not lead to cancellation of the project.

All of which is why it is so important that there is a source of ANYTHING the settlers could use from local resources. To have that thing be water ... is incredibly important.

The sad fact is ... from history ... settlements on earth were routinely wiped out by one thing or another. We have some data on the various early attempts at settling the new world but ... we have no idea how many people made it over here from Europe only to vanish without a trace. What Columbus and Spain accomplished wasn't "finding" the new world ... pretty much everyone ... except maybe Columbus ... already knew it was here. What they accomplished was coming here and staying.





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