open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked Audits 001 - come and get it
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic

Deus Mallius
ANZAC ACADEMY
Posted - 2009.12.08 12:52:00 - [61]
 

Hey all. I'm hopefully about to commence a small bond and I'm in need of a 2nd auditor.

If someone can contact me in game it would be much appreciated.

SiJira
Posted - 2009.12.10 21:36:00 - [62]
 

very good thread - needs a sticky

Coconut Joe
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.12.10 21:59:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: cosmoray
From an investor standpoint I am going to throw a couple of caveats in here. These are MY opinions, and it will effect my investing.

Qualifications

To be an auditor (even small scale), you must have had (at least 1 to qualify):

1. Successfully run an IPO or bond (successful means closed without default)
2. Made a significant contribution to the MD forum (approximately 100+ posts minimum), to the point people recognise you easily.
3. At least 6 months old
4. Have holdings in MD IPO's/bonds totalling over 1B ISK.

Audit Size

First audits have to be completed under 3B size. Audit is successful if bond launches & closes successfully.
Second & Third audits under 5B. Open after that.

That being said, these two people don't qualify as they are both new:

InUrJita CheckinUrPrice
Tylwyth Teg


Hello cosmoray,
how many people do you think are prepared to do auditing, and meeds these requirements?

Aluin Chaput
Caldari
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.14 23:47:00 - [64]
 

I would like an auditor for my IPO, preferably a experienced one who has handled a few IPOs/Bonds.

GoldIntrepidous
Posted - 2009.12.15 04:48:00 - [65]
 

Please add me to the list of volunteer's

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.12.16 11:06:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 16/12/2009 11:08:06
I refrained from posting about this till now:

- because I (and others) am apparently affected by / possibly have consequences off this initiative and this could wake up trolls and flames.

- have little time to play ATM and even less to participate in MD.

- wanted to see how it evolved by its own legs



I think now enough time has passed - about 1 month.

My observations - wholly subjective and not meant to be any sort of "commandment" are as follow:

1) The initiative does not show to have produced many tangible results.

2) The initiative does not tackle and fix the base issues for auditors.

3) The initiative does not strongly appeal to investors.

And before anyone asks, no I don't have my own magic wand solution nor have the time to even think about it.



1) I don't see many new investments - neither big nor small - opting for this kind of auditing.

I actually don't recall of a single "serious" report but I could very well be mistaken as I can't follow the forums almost at all since weeks.
I am mostly searching for My Appreciated Customers threads so to timely honor collateral restitutions and similar.

So, I don't want to even judge the guys in here but I'd like to see links or whatever to some of their results.
A severe lack of them would indicate something in this campaign is not going well and the OP could inform about his idea of why.


2) Auditing is not worth the time spent. This, along with "your institution needs transparency (said to EBANK in older times)" are two of my mantras.

This initiative, playing devil's (and investor's) advocate
looks like: "if you are fine we can lower the bar on information quality / quantity and get it done for cheap".

I am quite sure investees / bond issuers may like the deal because of the twisted mechanism making them and not investors the ones to pay for the audit.
But those who have to toss the coins are not so keen at reducing information, when EvE is already such an hostile and unsafe financial environment even with "full" audits.

Furthermore I have been hit by some statements (in game and not) about people talking like the NAV is something so quick and easy to assess. Or about assets value. I'd love to introduce them to true rigs value, to faction and officer gear calculations, to BPO vs BPC proofing, low sec POS defenses and merc contracts assessment and so on.
Sure, the shortened audits would try and focus on simpler investments but then we see the domain further restricted to basically hi sec trading. But then, what's important more than precise NAV calculation, performance prediction (read: transactions analysis, checking for phantom / trap / dubious movements) and so on?

Imho lowering costs is not a solution to a devalued meta-profession.

Putting it to being a valued meta-profession and thus having investors obtain quality reporting is to be pursued instead.

Kazuo, Brock etc. are not held off by some magic elements. They have their own activities and as good enterpreneurs they pick the lucrative activities and discard the "wastes of time".
Till auditing stops being a "waste of time" they won't be back (assuming this is the only impediment).

I have been accused in the past of making too low prices and thus driving other auditors away. Besides I made some investigations and found out the others don't ask for much more themselves, I have actually slammed my face against "GTFO walls" when I dared to ask for more.

Now, the approaches seen so far are:

- leave the job (Kazuo, Brock and others)

- ask for the real "EvE-man-hours" equivalent value (Shar) and thus becoming affordable only to banks and greater investments.

- lower the price but also the bar.

(Continued)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.12.16 11:12:00 - [67]
 

I dare say none of the above is working. And MD does not seem to accept further costs. By seeing the latest investments getting more and more... crappier it looks like people just gave up at even trying - both to propose something decent and at investors demanding transparency off it).
I have my own ideas but since I am sure they would not be accepted I am not wasting further bandwidth.


3) I'd like to see a real professional investor (Flakeys and the likes) talk about these micro-audits and the feeling they convey when it's the time *for them* (and not a generic "other" - i.e. putting the money where the mouth talks) to toss out the cash.

Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
Posted - 2009.12.16 11:31:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
A severe lack of them would indicate something in this campaign is not going well and the OP could inform about his idea of why.
No worries, all is well, for the past month there simply has not been any bonds that were suitable for these limited audits. Only 1 has been reported on (see post 2), 2 more on the way. Some other investees were requested to get a free audit and quickly left the building.

Re. the price of audits, it was never the intention to lower the price of genuine audits, but to get more people started with auditing.
There are several raods to follow from here:
1) Auditors can leave the programme and launch themselves as paid auditors.
2) We can also introduce payment to the concept, for instance each 001 auditor gets paid 5 mil isk per previous audit they have made. If you already have made 5, you must be paid 25 mil for the next one.

Any comments welcome.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.12.16 12:54:00 - [69]
 

Quote:

No worries, all is well, for the past month there simply has not been any bonds that were suitable for these limited audits.



Which prompts the question: "is this offer / "format" covering enough of the demand to be relevant"? Or is the investors "market" asking for apples and getting oranges?

This is why I actually started the above post, because if "auditing lite" would be the mean to relieve "heavy auditors" from part of their burden, then this should really happen.

Otherwise all we get are people leveraging on busy auditors to basically help themselves.


Quote:

Re. the price of audits, it was never the intention to lower the price of genuine audits, but to get more people started with auditing.



Same as above. "More is not necessarily better". I know the MD credo is about "volume is god" but we are not ship modules.
I don't see starting more auditors as a durable solution.
All you get is like another MMO I played. Gameplay sucked, lag sucked, once out of newbie "room" you'd be thrown rocks.

What did the devs do? They started more advertising. They got numbers. But the numbers clashed against the game and quickly vaned.

First we need to address *why* there are few auditors and *then* how to keep up with the resulting increased demand.

As of now auditors demand is *not* high, despite there is some further potential for growth.
What do you think the new auditors will do once they start asking money and they are told to GTFO?
What do you think they could ask, when a full audit perceived value is basically "miners' wage per hour"?

I mean, in the past I accepted some meager pricing because I liked it, I liked to learn the intricacies "of the system" (which is intriguing, compared to how rudely easy is to achieve most things in EvE).
But if I had time as a premium (like now), chosing to be auditor would have meant to be an idiot. An idiot that cannot report and give advices about other people's profitability and competitivity with a straight face because the job is so low on returns that doing it is a sign of being a bad manager / trader.
Until a full audit does not yield higher returns than basic AFK missioning (at least given how it's an high responsibility, high stress / flames etc. job), it's not worth doing.

By throwing new auditors in the mix, all you get is for all of them to be unknowing ignorants feeding on breadcrumbs till they learn the harsh rules of finance matters, and then stop working.

Now, I can understand how one side (investees) are perfectly fine with this, because they spend less and can keep many more skeletons in their closet.
But I don't see how this will satisfy investors nor I see how this would help the other auditors.

Auditors that *do exist*, they just value their other money income avenues as way too much more worthwhile to pursue.

Sama's Minion
Posted - 2009.12.16 13:10:00 - [70]
 

So you are saying that breaker's and varo's audits where sub-par?
I really don't know where you are getting at?
This is for small ventures, and unknown auditors.
Its really that simple, it will not lower the overall quality, it will help improve it and its offerings, where it used.
Only thing you where right about, 2 audits in 1 mth, is just not good enough.
Though I will add one more to that number in less than a day....


Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
Posted - 2009.12.16 13:30:00 - [71]
 

The way I see it, there are some offerings that are helped by a small audit, and these free mini audits have their place. At the very least the existence of the free audit offer weeds out some of the scams.

More serious offerings that really need an proper audit, will have one forced upon them by the investors if they want to get off the ground. If people want their IPO or bond to fly, they will have to pay the price.

There is very little competition for you as an auditor, so that cant be what pushes fees down. The investors dont pay for it, but demand it, so they arent dictating fees and pushing your price down. The investee is the one that needs the service, they can refuse the price but then they dont get their loan (or have to compensate with high interest etc).

I have to admit I dont know what you charge, but I cant see any argument for the fees being not worth the time. I would expect if i tried to launch a 5 bil IPO or bond, that i would have to fork out a couple of hundred mil to have a proper audit. I dont know how aligns with what you currently (or used to) charge.

I have a point somewhere in this ramble...oh yeah - Charge what you want, let people take it or leave it.

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2009.12.16 14:12:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Magnu Stormhawk
At the very least the existence of the free audit offer weeds out some of the scams.

It will also weed out the issue of investment decisions being based on "audits".

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.12.16 14:19:00 - [73]
 

Quote:

I have to admit I dont know what you charge, but I cant see any argument for the fees being not worth the time. I would expect if i tried to launch a 5 bil IPO or bond, that i would have to fork out a couple of hundred mil to have a proper audit.



For a 5B bond? I had people go mental at the very prospect of paying ...

*drumrolls*

...

30M

Not a typo. Thirty millions.

You know those loooooong audits? Yes, those with short and long version? Yes, those with also graphs? Yes, those that take hours and hours to make?
THESE are valued similar orders of amounts (if multiple accounts are involved they can rise to 50-60M but that's it, even if the bond is 16B).

I had actual requests (not for a 500M bond but for multiple billions) to delay the payment of such amounts.
I had actual people complain on SCC-lounge about how unbearably high are these fees.
I had people revolt about how this destroys the bond interest rate viability.

You know what? In RL I used to need to bargain and make my blood green to get some dang money off short-arms people. But this is a game, once the novelty effect is over, having 1 of 3 people crying murder for these amounts (ie they are not even ok with them) makes me tell them to GTFO, them and their audit, and I go do something else.


Quote:

I have a point somewhere in this ramble...oh yeah - Charge what you want, let people take it or leave it.



So far - and pure tangible heads count prove this is not just whining - the ones who left it are exactly us.

Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
Posted - 2009.12.16 14:56:00 - [74]
 

Thanks for the insight. I can see where the frustration comes from. Its a joke at that rate of pay.

Speaking from RL experience in my line of work, the onerous nature of signing an audit report is reflected well in the meta game of eve, in terms of the comfort that investors gain and the risk you take to your reputation and business in giving it. Your fee should reflect the risk you take as well as the time you put in. My clients may decline an audit because they dont want to pay the fee and they arent legally required to, but they come back and pay it once their funders tell them how it is.

I think the free audits a very useful, but they should take care to remain free unless the audit is serious about the job. A small audit and small fee or any hybrid between a proper job and a free check will muddy the waters and could end up in tears for everyone.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2009.12.16 15:57:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

No worries, all is well, for the past month there simply has not been any bonds that were suitable for these limited audits.



Which prompts the question: "is this offer / "format" covering enough of the demand to be relevant"?


Since this thread was started we've had a "Ripoff PL" scam attempt. Someone wanting 1.1 trillion ISK, another multibillion ISK offering, that then offered up 2 smaller offerings when the large one was tore apart by hopeful investors. Oh lets not forget the offering that had all his character trading alts vouching for him.

How is this supposed to take off when every offering starts off with the title "I'm going to scam you"??

Yes it is a lot of work, yes I'm not getting paid. I spend a couple of hours doing checks through the various programs, eve search, ingame, ect. and report it in the simplest way I can. Quite frankly your reports are too damn long and I could really care less if their cat took a **** on the right or left side of the tree this morning. Most people lose interest after reading a few seconds. Do they have the skills? Do they have the stated assets/collateral? Are they known scammers/have a history of scamming? Seriously, thats all thats needed!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.12.16 16:08:00 - [76]
 

Quote:
Quite frankly your reports are too damn long


Did you skip the part where every of them got a "shorter version" for those unwilling to read the whole thing?

The long version is actually not really long to write, it's the checks composing it that are long to do.

These checks are going to stay, I refuse to do an half work, I take great pride in putting in my best and - on the opposite side - flamers take great pride in highlighting the uncovered holes, if any. This easily leads to the hard work of a serious bond issuer to be ruined and possibly locked because of my lack of care and I could not condone myself for that.

Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Posted - 2009.12.16 16:46:00 - [77]
 

Well in comparison to VV fee's when I launched my IPO, we paid 1.55B ISK in auditing fees!
Around 100M ISK/Hour avg.

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2009.12.16 16:51:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Do they have the skills? Do they have the stated assets/collateral? Are they known scammers/have a history of scamming? Seriously, thats all thats needed!

In my books you just disqualified yourself as an auditor...

Every time I read this thread I have to think about creating an account solely for "testing" auditors (and every time I come to the conclusion it's not worth the money).

At least you should also look for

* direct trades
* money transfers
* assets hidden in outstanding private contracts
* especially for young characters: unaccounted-for assets (like +3 implants without any record of acquiring them, jettison with one character acquire with next)
* plausibility of SP count (e.g. my main has less SP than would be expected, because I trained an alt on the same account which I later transferred to a 2nd account); again double-check with remaps/implants for young characters (how long has he really had these +3s plugged in?)
* strange trading patterns (lots of small trading could mean he's trying to hide prior records by pushing them over the 1000 transactions limit)
* plausibility of skill selection (does he min-max, is he highly focused etc.)
* suspicious standings
* suspicious killmails (via API, not just public killboards)
* make sure you didn't forget to check for POSes
* characters with similar names/variations of same name that could possibly be alts
* have one (better two) interviews to test the knowledge of EVE in general, MD & his business plan in particular, let him explain any inconsistencies/yellow flags

It's not enough only to look for known scammers, big part of an audit is to assess the general "fishiness" of the audited party.

and yes, you have to report any significant findings to the investors - the value of your audit is very different if the transactions log goes only back for one
week than if it goes back for 3 months.

PS. Is it feasible to hide assets in anchored secure cans?

Andron Blaxcor
Posted - 2009.12.16 17:24:00 - [79]
 

I'll toss my hat back into the arena. When VV audited me, I was happy to pay because I knew the profit I would make was many times the fee. I was very happy with the audit.

I think the existence of this thread has served a slightly different function tan that initially envisaged. It seems to have proved a tool to quickly deter weak scams. Many would-be scammers seem to fold as soon as they are offered a free audit.

A legitimate business would never be put off by a free audit (unless they're very uptight with their information). So far as I know, no audit performed as a result of this has supported something which turned out to be a scam (I don't read the forums religiously so I may be mistaken here).

If the above paragraph holds true, then this thread seems to have had some success if the ultimate aims of an auditing body are considered. The reason nobody has picked out any really elaborate scams and that few successful businesses have been audited are because both are relatively rare on these forums.

Just my thoughts.

Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
Posted - 2009.12.16 20:19:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
By throwing new auditors in the mix, all you get is for all of them to be unknowing ignorants feeding on breadcrumbs till they learn the harsh rules of finance matters, and then stop working.

You were an "unknowing ignorant", as you so kindly put it, when you did your first audits. They werenŽt impressive but you learned as you did more.
Some never learn. There are two past auditors who I would not trust to carry out an audit.

Quote:
Now, I can understand how one side (investees) are perfectly fine with this, because they spend less and can keep many more skeletons in their closet.

Scare tactics. YouŽre implying that a new auditor is incapable of finding any skeletons.

Quote:
But I don't see how this will satisfy investors

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Breaker and I did an audit on a one billion bond. Investors were satisfied with the results and invested. Unexpectedly, I was asked to hold collateral. No investor spoke against that. IŽll consider the audit a true success when the bond is repaid, but so far so good.

Incidentally, at least two audits by established auditors didnŽt prevent scams.

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2009.12.16 20:45:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 16/12/2009 20:56:37
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 16/12/2009 20:45:42
Originally by: Varo Jan
Scare tactics. YouŽre implying that a new auditor is incapable of finding any skeletons.
[...]
Incidentally, at least two audits by established auditors didnŽt prevent scams.

newsflash: contrary to public belief, you don't have to kill your predecessors in order to achieve elite-status in MD.

just get along with each other, k? would be better for MD as a whole.

to clarify my point: ad-hominem *****ing won't get you/us anywhere.

VV has a legitimate point:
there is no way to assess the level of competency a new auditor actually has (I have listed some possible pitfalls in my previous post).

Varo Jan raises another important issue:
There has to be a way for new auditors to establish themselves.

Now, please try to resolve this conflict in a constructive manner and don't jump directly at each others' throats.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2009.12.16 22:34:00 - [82]
 

Quote:
At least you should also look for

* direct trades
* money transfers
* assets hidden in outstanding private contracts



All covered under scams/scamming (hmmm 3 billion ISK received from jhgfkjhjkdfahg). However you can not search for outstanding contract on another player, only finished contracts and contracts can not be pulled from the API!

Quote:
* especially for young characters: unaccounted-for assets (like +3 implants without any record of acquiring them, jettison with one character acquire with next)


So they buy 1 unit of trit 1000 times and the wallet journal is now erased with no record of that.

Quote:
* plausibility of SP count (e.g. my main has less SP than would be expected, because I trained an alt on the same account which I later transferred to a 2nd account); again double-check with remaps/implants for young characters (how long has he really had these +3s plugged in?)


You would see I specifically mentioned that in my 2nd audit I performed.

Quote:
* strange trading patterns (lots of small trading could mean he's trying to hide prior records by pushing them over the 1000 transactions limit)


Scam content

Quote:
* plausibility of skill selection (does he min-max, is he highly focused etc.)


Young player that doesn't have a clue what to train, or just trains what he needs to do that now!! Everyone has some random skills that they are probably thinking WTF did I train that for?? Hell I'm training for capitals and I have no desire to go to lowsec/0.0 space.

Quote:
* suspicious standings
* suspicious killmails (via API, not just public killboards)


Scamming category

Quote:
* make sure you didn't forget to check for POSes


assets

Quote:
* characters with similar names/variations of same name that could possibly be alts


Scamming category

Quote:

* have one (better two) interviews to test the knowledge of EVE in general, MD & his business plan in particular, let him explain any inconsistencies/yellow flags



In my 2nd audit I replied that I was waiting to hear back from him to clear up some questions I had.

Seriously, you can't trust me thats fine, however everything you mentioned I covered in my 100 words or less audit report without coving anything up in novel that rivals War and Peace.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.12.16 22:50:00 - [83]
 

Quote:

You were an "unknowing ignorant", as you so kindly put it, when you did your first audits. They werenŽt impressive but you learned as you did more.



I think you did not get the post context. Ignorance was not related with auditing but with the ignorance about the fact that after the first "oooh, aaah" it gets old fast once they see the meager returns. And this exactly when interest and curiosity are slowly replaced by routine.


Quote:

Scare tactics. YouŽre implying that a new auditor is incapable of finding any skeletons.



No, just bad reading. "can keep many more skeletons in their closet" means that they do find skeletons but less than if they did proper audits.
This allows for a dangerous gray area, where the investee circumvents the obvious checks with expedients and the auditor puts hands ahead: "hey I was just doing a free audit-lite, how could I discover that".


Quote:

Incidentally, at least two audits by established auditors didnŽt prevent scams.



Incidentally, audits can never prevent scams.
In an hypothetical bad word, every single audited bond could be a scam because of an abnormally long sequel of people feeding "legit" characters that in the middle of the bond run change their mind and flee with the money.

Audits, as said for an hundred times, are to inform, not to make investments safer.
Exactly like Concord is not here to protect but for retribution.

Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
Posted - 2009.12.17 03:05:00 - [84]
 

Quote:
Quote:

Scare tactics. YouŽre implying that a new auditor is incapable of finding any skeletons.



No, just bad reading. "can keep many more skeletons in their closet" means that they do find skeletons but less than if they did proper audits.
This allows for a dangerous gray area, where the investee circumvents the obvious checks with expedients and the auditor puts hands ahead: "hey I was just doing a free audit-lite, how could I discover that".


WeŽre talking at cross-purposes. I said new auditor, and that doesnŽt necessarily mean lite audits.

I could nitpick more, but thereŽs no point. More auditors are needed. If you disagree with the methods suggested in this thread, then be proactive and constructive and suggest a workable alternative.

As for me, IŽll continue to offer free audits for small offerings. It will be for the community to judge whether they are robust enough to assist in investment decisions.

SetrakDark
DarkCorp Citizens Holdings
DarkCorp Citizens
Posted - 2009.12.17 03:09:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Varo Jan
As for me, IŽll continue to offer free audits for small offerings. It will be for the community to judge whether they are robust enough to assist in investment decisions.


I haven't read any of the recent content of this thread, but I did read your audit and found it more than satisfactory. Auditing is a thankless, yet crucial job. When someone steps up and does a good job of it, they should be thanked.

Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Posted - 2009.12.17 03:14:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: SetrakDark
Originally by: Varo Jan
As for me, IŽll continue to offer free audits for small offerings. It will be for the community to judge whether they are robust enough to assist in investment decisions.


I haven't read any of the recent content of this thread, but I did read your audit and found it more than satisfactory. Auditing is a thankless, yet crucial job. When someone steps up and does a good job of it, they should be thanked.


QFT

VJ is imo the most promising upcoming auditor around, if this was a race track, I would put my ISK on him :p

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2009.12.17 07:22:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
However you can not search for outstanding contract on another player, only finished contracts and contracts can not be pulled from the API!

Guess what, that's exactly why I listed this - because putting assets in outstanding contracts is an efficient way to hide them from the API. However, you can ask for a screenshot of the outstanding contracts and doublecheck that with the records for contract fees - not perfect but at least something.

One of my central points was to stress the limitations of the API and mention some parts of the API no convenient programs exist for (standings, [killmails can be read with EveHQ]).

Originally by: Breaker77
Quote:
* especially for young characters: unaccounted-for assets (like +3 implants without any record of acquiring them, jettison with one character acquire with next)


So they buy 1 unit of trit 1000 times and the wallet journal is now erased with no record of that.

no need to clutter up your journal with suspicious entries.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2009.12.17 15:20:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Breaker77 on 17/12/2009 15:20:40
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
Originally by: Breaker77
However you can not search for outstanding contract on another player, only finished contracts and contracts can not be pulled from the API!

Guess what, that's exactly why I listed this - because putting assets in outstanding contracts is an efficient way to hide them from the API. However, you can ask for a screenshot of the outstanding contracts and doublecheck that with the records for contract fees - not perfect but at least something.



While that would work, what is to stop them from taking a SS, then creating a contract to hide the assets. No assets listed in API and no outstanding contracts.

I do understand what you are getting at, however as it has been repeated a million times, an audit is not a guarantee of anything.

Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
Posted - 2009.12.28 10:31:00 - [89]
 

Can someone maybe audit the Satane / Sextrader offer?
She is claiming that she has asked for an audit, but selling shares already.

Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Posted - 2009.12.28 10:36:00 - [90]
 

I can audit her.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only