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Holly Hotdrop
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:15:00 - [2221]
 

Originally by: Anahid Brutus
**** it, i'll do your job for you.

First off, you need objectives that people want to fight over. Not useless grindy **** that absolutely NO ONE wants to do and can't even be fought over, so here's the solution:

- Leave R64s as large scale alliance objectives. If the income is too high(which it probably is), simply lower the dysp/prom reqs on T2 construction jobs. Problem solved. No need to tear apart the whole system with your terrible, terrible large-scale switch-around solution that will just frustrate players. No need for your completely terrible and overly complex alchemy either.

- Reintroduce static plexes as small-gang objectives. Active income, can be fought over without a 200 man fleet. Worth the effort compared to L4s in empire, reduce the number of them if they aren't being fought over.

- For individual income then make deep 0.0, ie. 2-3 carrier jumps out of low-sec, all perfect true sec, increase rat spawn rates/quality/bounties by 50%(no frig/cruiser spawns 50 jumps from jita, ~3m bounty rats), make all BS rats scram you(if you're out of scram range then they tank really hard, so no kiting) and now 0.0 is kinda risky, yet rewarding enough to be worth the effort. You definitely won't have solo ravens being able to rat and just cloak up whenever someone comes through, but some active, organized defense and you'll be making isk worth your while.


Sov shouldn't be important since let's be honest, no one really gives a ****(money motivates people, not some gay towers or something), and as such it really shouldn't be the focus, but:
- remove cyno jammers
- make the sov holding structure something with dual reinforcement timers that orbits the sun, no maint costs needed, but it needs to be reinforceable by a 20 man bs fleet in a reasonable amount of time. the limit on the size of empires will be that disrupting sov will be doable by small groups of players, not some arbitrary maintenance fees.(don't make it an outpost since people will just sit on undock with their carriers like big gays)

oh and kill exploration/wormspace, that **** is just anti-social.
qft

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:16:00 - [2222]
 

Originally by: Mkiaki
Boy you "endgame" players really know how to spit the proverbial dummy don't you.

Shocked

What the hell do you think we do all day? Run missions?

Graalum
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:23:00 - [2223]
 

the crappiest 0.0 should match highsec missioning in terms of single character income potential.


top end systems ie -.75 or better should be double that. having elite space should be a reward, not the bare minimum for usefulness.

Twigand Berries
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:24:00 - [2224]
 

hi

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Dharh
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:26:00 - [2225]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Mkiaki
Boy you "endgame" players really know how to spit the proverbial dummy don't you.

Shocked

What the hell do you think we do all day? Run missions?


What hes talking about is the fact that some null secers are so full of themselves that they think they are doing the 'endgame', when in fact there is no such thing as 'endgame' in EVE. Some parts are harder than others, some parts have newest features or content, some parts are the most uber ISK/hour. None of it is endgame.

Mkiaki
Gallente
Progressive Business Solutions
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:27:00 - [2226]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Mkiaki
Boy you "endgame" players really know how to spit the proverbial dummy don't you.

Shocked

What the hell do you think we do all day? Run missions?


***** and whine about things you want changed.

Yup, that's about it. Laughing


Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:29:00 - [2227]
 

Originally by: Mkiaki
Boy you "endgame" players really know how to spit the proverbial dummy don't you.

Shocked
big time posting is what we do, and if posting was baseball this thread would be the allstar game

Mkiaki
Gallente
Progressive Business Solutions
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:33:00 - [2228]
 

Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Mkiaki
Boy you "endgame" players really know how to spit the proverbial dummy don't you.

Shocked
big time whining is what we do, if this was a internet video we are the angry german kid


Fixed for accuracy..

You guys don't own EVE, and for an Alliance who dubbed themselves to be here for fun, boy you take this seriously.. CCP are likely quiet in meetings, forming up a change to these plans. Either way you wanted these changes Laughing


Esplin
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:38:00 - [2229]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:41:00 - [2230]
 

Originally by: Graalum
the crappiest 0.0 should match highsec missioning in terms of single character income potential.


top end systems ie -.75 or better should be double that. having elite space should be a reward, not the bare minimum for usefulness.


unironically empty quoting Atlas posters again. it still feels weird to me.

Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:48:00 - [2231]
 

Originally by: Anahid Brutus
**** it, i'll do your job for you.

First off, you need objectives that people want to fight over. Not useless grindy **** that absolutely NO ONE wants to do and can't even be fought over, so here's the solution:

- Leave R64s as large scale alliance objectives. If the income is too high(which it probably is), simply lower the dysp/prom reqs on T2 construction jobs. Problem solved. No need to tear apart the whole system with your terrible, terrible large-scale switch-around solution that will just frustrate players. No need for your completely terrible and overly complex alchemy either.

- Reintroduce static plexes as small-gang objectives. Active income, can be fought over without a 200 man fleet. Worth the effort compared to L4s in empire, reduce the number of them if they aren't being fought over.

- For individual income then make deep 0.0, ie. 2-3 carrier jumps out of low-sec, all perfect true sec, increase rat spawn rates/quality/bounties by 50%(no frig/cruiser spawns 50 jumps from jita, ~3m bounty rats), make all BS rats scram you(if you're out of scram range then they tank really hard, so no kiting) and now 0.0 is kinda risky, yet rewarding enough to be worth the effort. You definitely won't have solo ravens being able to rat and just cloak up whenever someone comes through, but some active, organized defense and you'll be making isk worth your while.


Sov shouldn't be important since let's be honest, no one really gives a ****(money motivates people, not some gay towers or something), and as such it really shouldn't be the focus, but:
- remove cyno jammers
- make the sov holding structure something with dual reinforcement timers that orbits the sun, no maint costs needed, but it needs to be reinforceable by a 20 man bs fleet in a reasonable amount of time. the limit on the size of empires will be that disrupting sov will be doable by small groups of players, not some arbitrary maintenance fees.(don't make it an outpost since people will just sit on undock with their carriers like big gays)

oh and kill exploration/wormspace, that **** is just anti-social.


Wow, this would be spectacular. Actually making living in BFE worth it. Giving those very remote corners of eve space worth fighting over.

I'd also be down for some r64 redistribution but we can only hope for 1 small, possitive change to the game a year.

Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:49:00 - [2232]
 

Edited by: Yon Krum on 09/11/2009 05:50:44
Edited by: Yon Krum on 09/11/2009 05:49:25
Ok, so there have been some good suggestions for defensive hardening/blanket "leadership boost" -style upgrades to systems, of the sort that one would expect to find in a "military" index.

Actually, we probably need another index, called "security", to base such upgrades on, but could use the strategic index.

In addition to previous suggestions along these lines, the current system upgrade list is missing some critical components, and most importantly a way to decloak ships in space. I'll be short on this:

Gravitic Harmonics Scanning Array (GHSA)
A central control antenna located at the hub, primarily designed to detect the presence of cloaked ships and their general locations in the system, made possible by the seeding of thousands of small sensors to detect gravity fluctuations and harmonics of vessels that are not registered with stargate shipping lists.
(Could also be used to do system wide scans for anomalies, if desired, or other such features. Uses the usual scanner interface if your ship is within 2500m, but does not give a resolution on a cloaked ship sufficient for a warp-in. Could cost fuel per use if desired.)

Gravitic Orthogonal Distortion Inducer (GOD-I)

Targets a selected item on the scanning results pane and fires a massive gravity distortion wave at the item's grid location, destabilizing any active cloaking devices on that grid and preventing their use for 20 seconds. Consumes fuel per activation.

Tada. Now if you sink the investment into your system, the morons trying to bork it with cloakers have to actually be at the keyboard! Combine this with the TAXES module in my post (on page 74, I think), and you have something that starts to answer operational concerns we have.

--Krum

ElanMorin6
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:53:00 - [2233]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:54:00 - [2234]
 

If they moved all level 4 mission agents to low sec, would that boost low sec and bring more balance to the 0.0 vs. High sec risk vs. reward?

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:02:00 - [2235]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
If they moved all level 4 mission agents to low sec, would that boost low sec and bring more balance to the 0.0 vs. High sec risk vs. reward?



It would help but CCP would never actually tamper with the sacred cow.

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:05:00 - [2236]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
If they moved all level 4 mission agents to low sec, would that boost low sec and bring more balance to the 0.0 vs. High sec risk vs. reward?



Its not that level 4s themselves are terrible. Just that nullsec does offer a greatly increased income over them. Level 4s being safe money for people that want to run them all day is fine by me. But nullsec income being = to these with the chagnes its just awfull. Increase 0.0 income and most people running level 4s wont care or notice.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:08:00 - [2237]
 

since we never got the revamp of loot tables to compensate for the increased tech1 volumes, allow me to get back to the idea we had back then:

hauler spawn upgrade plz

Cayleu
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:08:00 - [2238]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
If they moved all level 4 mission agents to low sec, would that boost low sec and bring more balance to the 0.0 vs. High sec risk vs. reward?



Nerfing hi-sec L4 missions and/or rewards would definitely help, but the masses in empire would scream bloody murder.

An alternative solution would be to simply buff up zero-sec so that the individual player - after accounting for taxes and possible costs needed by the alliance for infrastructure - can earn more money than L4 missions.

Inflation would take care of the rest. Purchasing power wouldnt change in 0.0, and would be reduced in empire, which would achieve the same thing as a L4 nerf without starting a riot.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:16:00 - [2239]
 

Originally by: Roemy Schneider
since we never got the revamp of loot tables to compensate for the increased tech1 volumes, allow me to get back to the idea we had back then:

hauler spawn upgrade plz


Hmmm, if they put a Hauler Spawn as a random pop up in anomalies... That would be neat.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:19:00 - [2240]
 

Originally by: Kanatta Jing
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
since we never got the revamp of loot tables to compensate for the increased tech1 volumes, allow me to get back to the idea we had back then:

hauler spawn upgrade plz


Hmmm, if they put a Hauler Spawn as a random pop up in anomalies... That would be neat.


But make sure it only has valuable minerals - no one wants to haul 240k of trit through 0.0. Make sure it's **** like Zydrine and Megacyte.

Lady Pluiedecoups
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:25:00 - [2241]
 

something else have been forget : systm are not all equal
a lot of system have no valuable moon raws
a lot of system have really few belts

having a system sov don't mean you have acces to all moon

if a large alliance allready own the R64 in your system and you are a small ally never you'll gonna take it down for your own

price must be depending of system value , you want small ally to have access to 0.0 let them take something they can hold by themslef

actually a 50 member ally can take a sov and earn what it need without moons , with new system pilots will have to spend more time to play as 0.0 carebears to earn isk to pay the ukeep
if player are farming they are not figting , one of the great pleasure of 0.0 is to fight

sov system based on isk is changing 0.0 in empire carebear region.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:29:00 - [2242]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/11/2009 06:31:52
Originally by: Esplin
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


I don't suppose you have considered that while yes anomalies will be as profitable as level 4 missions, you will also have additional lucrative sources of income not readily available in high sec.

More lucrative, hidden belts might mean you will have to actually have some people on hand that know how to mine properly (and profitably). Repeated claiming that nobody mines in null sec because it isn't as profitable as ratting makes you look a bit... inept. Sorry.

Upgraded mini-profession sites (which admittedly could use some tweaking), high end complexes, and access to more and better Wormholes are all money makers that are either not readily available or will be rarer or of lower quality than in Empire space.

Of course there are still your high end moons, which while not as valuable as before are still a resource most often found in null sec (or at worst within easy range of null sec).

I don't think what we currently have proposed in Dominion is perfect yet, far from it. However singling out one of the several high end upgradeable revenue streams that will be available to you, and then quoting each other endlessly because because one of them is "merely" as profitable as the best monetary resource in the game is pretty short sighted.




Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:35:00 - [2243]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/11/2009 06:31:52
Originally by: Esplin
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


I don't suppose you have considered that while yes anomalies will be as profitable as level 4 missions, you will also have additional lucrative sources of income not readily available in high sec.

More lucrative, hidden belts might mean you will have to actually have some people on hand that know how to mine properly (and profitably). Repeated claiming that nobody mines in null sec because it isn't as profitable as ratting makes you look a bit... inept. Sorry.

Upgraded mini-profession sites (which admittedly could use some tweaking), high end complexes, and access to more and better Wormholes are all money makers that are either not readily available or will be rarer or of lower quality than in Empire space.

Of course there are still your high end moons, which while not as valuable as before are still a resource most often found in null sec (or at worst within easy range of null sec).

I don't think what we currently have proposed in Dominion is perfect yet, far from it. However singling out one of the several high end upgradeable revenue streams that will be available to you, and then quoting each other endlessly because because one of them is "merely" as profitable as the best monetary resource in the game is pretty short sighted.




that's because the best monetary resource in the game is literally the safest. 0.0 has to be more profitable then running missions in hisec because you will get ganked, lose implants (even more expensive then losing you ratting ship sometimes) and possibly losing access to all your assets when your station switches hands, along with higher prices on basic goods (something many people have forgotten to mention) and having to import anything that isn't T1 or pay absolutely exorbitant prices.

Niamota Olin
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:38:00 - [2244]
 

Might as well post... everyone else is...

Here are the basics as I see it....

Sov will now cost a fortune.

To solve this pvpers are going to have to be required to farm for isk... to pay for the new changes.
Before they had to fight to keep there space, now they have to farm to do so...

Utter fail from a game supposedly the ultimate pvp game.

Turning pvpers into farmers.... ultimate fail.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:41:00 - [2245]
 

Originally by: Korodan
Originally by: Kanatta Jing
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
since we never got the revamp of loot tables to compensate for the increased tech1 volumes, allow me to get back to the idea we had back then:

hauler spawn upgrade plz


Hmmm, if they put a Hauler Spawn as a random pop up in anomalies... That would be neat.


But make sure it only has valuable minerals - no one wants to haul 240k of trit through 0.0. Make sure it's **** like Zydrine and Megacyte.
hummm actually i was aiming for "useful" rather than another wealth faucet, especially with ratters getting out of the belts and into the plexes.
alternatively, we could have them drop LOADS of modules/ammo; imagine a spawn with 100k doom torps or 10k passive targeters -.-

Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:42:00 - [2246]
 

Edited by: Sarah Norbulk on 09/11/2009 07:03:12
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

I'd like to hear the answer to this myself.

Edit: Typo

Bilbo II
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:48:00 - [2247]
 

Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

I'd like to here the answer to this myself.


As would I

Bloodhands
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:49:00 - [2248]
 

Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

I'd like to here the answer to this myself.


Very good question indeed.

Aralis
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:51:00 - [2249]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/11/2009 06:31:52
Originally by: Esplin
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


I don't suppose you have considered that while yes anomalies will be as profitable as level 4 missions, you will also have additional lucrative sources of income not readily available in high sec.

More lucrative, hidden belts might mean you will have to actually have some people on hand that know how to mine properly (and profitably). Repeated claiming that nobody mines in null sec because it isn't as profitable as ratting makes you look a bit... inept. Sorry.

Upgraded mini-profession sites (which admittedly could use some tweaking), high end complexes, and access to more and better Wormholes are all money makers that are either not readily available or will be rarer or of lower quality than in Empire space.

Of course there are still your high end moons, which while not as valuable as before are still a resource most often found in null sec (or at worst within easy range of null sec).

I don't think what we currently have proposed in Dominion is perfect yet, far from it. However singling out one of the several high end upgradeable revenue streams that will be available to you, and then quoting each other endlessly because because one of them is "merely" as profitable as the best monetary resource in the game is pretty short sighted.






Utterly irrelevant. You can only do one of these things at a time. Unlimited numbers of you could do level 4 missions. So at BEST you only need to count the best resource in 0.0.

Jethro Hawkins
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:52:00 - [2250]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Quoted it before, will keep quoting it. What's the worst that happens? CCP won't answer... probably.

Please don't break the game until I actually can fly my capital ship wish list please.


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