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Capt Ketamine
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.11.04 16:09:00 - [31]
 

There are better boards out there for Eve questions, with civilised helpful non flamatory responses, but if you want a laff and a giggle on yer lunch break here is the place. Quite frankly everyone should be in game more and not slagging eachother off. Damn funny tho some of it. That dude a few posts ago was right, dont take it all so seriously!


Mongo Peck
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2004.11.04 16:45:00 - [32]
 

/me smiles


RollinDutchMasters
Gallente
Ordnance Delivery Services Inc.
Posted - 2004.11.04 17:30:00 - [33]
 

You used up all my supply of polite care in your first eleventy-million threads. Now all I have is contempt care, but you'll be glad to know that I have plenty and its the gift that keeps on giving.

Derisor
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.11.04 17:37:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Derisor on 04/11/2004 17:43:52
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
You used up all my supply of polite care in your first eleventy-million threads. Now all I have is contempt care, but you'll be glad to know that I have plenty and its the gift that keeps on giving.


Thanks for providing a good example of the problem. However, we could look up any number of your posts to find other examples.

Why cant you simply say "I disagree because of ... " ?What is it about you as a person that makes you try and insult, ridicule and flame other people? What is it about you that makes you unable to have an adult conversation and an adult dissagreement? And what makes you think that people shoudl have to ask your permission to post? What is it about you that gives you the right to keep a count of other people's posts and make arbitrary decision when they have "posted too much"?

Perhaps you should take this opportunity ro review the rules... of this forum as well as those of comon decency.

Other people manage to disagree with me and tell me that i am wrong without being jerks and getting personal. Why is that simple SIMPLE act so far beyond your comprehension?

Gift
Amarr
Loot
Pirate Coalition
Posted - 2004.11.04 18:18:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Gift on 04/11/2004 18:35:49


Originally by: Derisor
Edited by: Derisor on 04/11/2004 17:43:52
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
You used up all my supply of polite care in your first eleventy-million threads. Now all I have is contempt care, but you'll be glad to know that I have plenty and its the gift that keeps on giving.


Thanks for providing a good example of the problem. However, we could look up any number of your posts to find other examples.
Other people manage to disagree with me and tell me that i am wrong without being jerks and getting personal. Why is that simple SIMPLE act so far beyond your comprehension?


ok, if that bothered you i think you're a little too sensative cuz i thought it was kinda funny.

Balsak
Minmatar
Friends of Bigfoot
Posted - 2004.11.04 18:45:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Balsak on 04/11/2004 18:51:19
You see Derisor your problem is the fact that you cannot handle someone else disagreeing with you under any circustances. You say you want people to respond with reasonable arguements instead of name calling. But you turn around and insult people when they do disagree with you in a reasonable manner.

The problem is with YOU and your ego. You were the same way back in beta when you tried to impose all your wisdom on the forums. You were the same way in Neocron and everyone flamed you there for the exact same reasons as now.

Neon Genesis
GoonFleet
Posted - 2004.11.04 18:55:00 - [37]
 

Derisor, u hav started the game and immediately attempted to aggravate the community by posting complete crap of which u no nuthin, either that or ur just stupid.

I wasted a full 5 minutes of my life reading and replying to ur posts and i want them back Evil or Very Mad

Vhaln
Gallente
Posted - 2004.11.04 21:04:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Vhaln on 04/11/2004 21:14:25

Originally by: Gift
ok, if that bothered you i think you're a little too sensative cuz i thought it was kinda funny.


What do you mean by "bothered?" Does it matter if he was really hurt by it, or is it more about how immature that type of response is? I mean, is it really about being "thick skinned?" Because you can flame me up and down - I've been reading message boards and usenet for years, so it's not like it'll bother me at all - but I'll still think less of you for it, and if I see a messageboard flooded by that sort of thing, I'll think less of the game's community.

Above, I compared EVE to other MMORPGs, but then noticed someone else compared it to Counterstrike and another to Unreal Tournament boards. Maybe that says something. I love good shooters, but I sure wouldn't want to be involved with any of them socially. I'm just grateful for how little chatting we can do while fragging eachother.

To me, EVE isn't that sort of game at all. It's a very deep RPG, not a fragfest. Even deeper than its competitors like EQ and the like. So maybe I expect too much from its players.

Qayos
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.11.04 21:06:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Gift
ok, if that bothered you i think you're a little too sensative cuz i thought it was kinda funny.

If you read any of Rollin's other posts, I don't think it was intended to be funny at all. I believe his post here was entirely serious, and that he intentionally brings crap and flames to the forums and somehow feels he is justified in doing so.

Originally by: "Derisor"
What is it about you that makes you unable to have an adult conversation and an adult dissagreement?

It's entirely possible he isn't an adult, in which case you could say he has an excuse.


Originally by: "DeerHunter GE"
its only an game and its also only an forum.

You only use "AN" when the next word starts with a vowel, otherwise use "A". (Just trying to help as I've seen you make this mistake numerous times in other threads as well.) Smile Oh, and can I have your stuff?

Nooey
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
Posted - 2004.11.04 21:18:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Nooey on 04/11/2004 21:26:27
Someone might have already said this, pointed it out. Whatever, I haven't read this thread (EDIT: Ok I have now). Just wanted to quote you Derisor.

Quote One: "Strange though that people cant express their disagreement without being jerks."

Quote Two: "Fortunately you dont set the rules for the forum and fortunately your opinion means absolutely nothing"

Such hypocrisy mate. Lead by example. I'm sorry.

CCP Eris Discordia

Posted - 2004.11.04 21:31:00 - [41]
 

The moderators do try to make this a friendly and welcoming forums, thank you for the compliments.

It's hard to please everybody though, some people want us to relax a little and others would prefer to have even stricter rules.

If you have suggestions for moderator, sned them too
mods@ccpgames.com

Harry Voyager
Jolly Codgers
Posted - 2004.11.04 21:34:00 - [42]
 

For those of you who haven't read any of Derisor's origianl threads, he started off by posting on a hot button issue, and was then rather offensive in his arguments for it. That is most of the reason people who have some familiarity with him are not very friendly towards him now.

If you troll, you cannot reasonably expect to be treated with kid gloves.

Harry Voyager

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.11.04 23:26:00 - [43]
 

Where to begin?

yes, there are occasionally flame fests on these boards, and it can be hard to have a serious discussion at times, but the problem is not really that bad. The mods do an excellent job of reigning in flames and trolling either by locking threads or removing offensive posts, even banning people from posting. Of all the boards I've read, this one doesn't stand out too much, except for certain parts of it (cough, Alliance forum).

To Derisor. If you think you've been flamed for your posts, you seriously need to look in the Crime and Punishment and Alliance sections if you really want to see what flaming is. Your problem seems to be that you confuse flaming with disagreement. The vast majority of the posts in your threads have been done rationally and calmly by people outlining why they disagree with you and providing evidence to back their statements up. Has anyone in those threads said "STFU noob"? I don't recall seeing that. There may have been some that were hotheaded, but you've hardly been flamed.

As pointed out elsewhere, most of these people have been trying to have the adult, rational debates you claim to be seeking, but you refuse to accept any of their arguments and just say they're wrong. I guess your idea of an adult and rational argument is everyone agreeing with you and praising you for your wisdom and insight.

This brings us to why people take a hostile, though often polite, response to you. You come here with your three weeks of experience that could not have possibly shown you 10% of the Eve experience and post statements that come across as very condescending, arrogant wherein you, with your above-stated limited knowledge, claim to know what's best for Eve, implying that the people who have been playing for over 18 months and the devs themselves don't know what they're doing or understand how anything works. Your posts always come across like you're the smartest person playing, and it never could have occured to anyone else to come up with your idea. Never once have you said "This may have been suggested before, but..."

Furthermore, you post most of your ideas in the General Forum, instead of the Idea Lab, which is the proper place for suggestions of changes. Then, in your posts, you don't bother to post any facts or examples from your own experience. Instead, you make statements that to almost anyone who has been playing for a few months are completely untrue, and you use inane exaggerations to try to make your point, instead of real examples. Hyperbole such as that will not make people take you seriously. Instead, they reveal you as someone talking out of his rear end about things he obviously has little to no experience with. Then, when people reply with real counters based on facts and experience, you flame them and disregard everything they say because it does not agree with your ideas.

These are only several of the reasons why people have been what some might call harsh in their responses to you. If you want people to reply in a more "adult and rational" way, you need to take the first step by not inviting it with heavy-handed, exaggerated topics, by making more humble suggestions based on your level of actual experience, not some story you heard somewhere, or some idea that's been argued numerous times in the past. There's a lot of smart people playing this game, and chances are anything you suggest has been suggested before. So do a little research before you proclaim yourself some sort of omniscient Eve master who has done everything in the game, and knows how everything works, how it used to work, and how it will work in the future.

MOOstradamus
Posted - 2004.11.04 23:53:00 - [44]
 


Nooey
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
Posted - 2004.11.04 23:59:00 - [45]
 

Extremely well said F'nog.

*Applauds*

Vhaln
Gallente
Posted - 2004.11.05 01:14:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Nooey
Extremely well said F'nog.


You mean how he spent one small paragraph to disagree, then five more paragraphs to explain why Derisor's opinions suck? Yes, very eloquent, but um, imho, supported Derisor's point pretty well. Maybe not outright hostile, but very ad hominem, when the original post was much more general.

Nooey
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
Posted - 2004.11.05 02:17:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Nooey on 05/11/2004 02:26:37
Edited by: Nooey on 05/11/2004 02:26:14
Where did he drift into ad hominem?

*Is glad he knows philosophical Jargon*

PARAGRAPH THREE: Hmm ok there it is.
I guess your idea of an adult and rational argument is everyone agreeing with you and praising you for your wisdom and insight.

Ok, that'd be the only sentence in that entire section i'd label as ad-hom. Hardly compares to Derisor stating outright "And fortunately your opinions doesnt matter" or whatever the f he said. I just didn't like the guy's hypocrisy is all. But I don't really give a crap tbh. Just thought the ad-hom call a bit strange, since F'Nog was all about attacking the way this guy argued, and not the guy himself, bar that one sentence.

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.11.05 02:45:00 - [48]
 

I wasn't saying that Derisor's opinions suck, though I guess I do believe that to some extent, although I would prefer to call them ill-informed and wildly inaccurate which could be considered the same thing, but why he seems to **** so many people off, which is what he wanted to know. And the other part was not meant as an attack, just an observation of how he seems to react to others' views. Maybe I worded it somewhat harshly, but I stand by my interpretation of his responses.

Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2004.11.05 02:52:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/11/2004 02:56:19
Derisor, you have a this problem with a LOT of communities.
The common factor? You.

Fact check and use the ideas forum allready. This isn't the place for suggestions.

Vhaln
Gallente
Posted - 2004.11.05 03:36:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Vhaln on 05/11/2004 03:41:07

Originally by: Nooey
Where did he drift into ad hominem?


I just meant comments that were about the person raising the issue, rather than being about the issue itself.

Originally by: F'nog
I wasn't saying that Derisor's opinions suck, though I guess I do believe that to some extent, although I would prefer to call them ill-informed and wildly inaccurate which could be considered the same thing, but why he seems to **** so many people off, which is what he wanted to know. And the other part was not meant as an attack, just an observation of how he seems to react to others' views. Maybe I worded it somewhat harshly, but I stand by my interpretation of his responses.


Wasn't saying it was harsh. Just that it seemed to be all about Derisor, what he's doing wrong, etc. I didn't think he was complaining about hostility towards himself, but more in general.


F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.11.05 03:45:00 - [51]
 

Yes, on this occasion, he was talking about in general, but in his other posts he asked similar questions when people disagreed with him, so I though I'd kill two birds with one stone and answer both questions here.

The Failure
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.11.05 08:30:00 - [52]
 

judging from both history and the current state of the world I prefer the childish way of solving disagreements.
Adults kill each other.

Vex Seraphim
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.11.05 11:13:00 - [53]
 

I've been a forum&irc ***** since pre puberty.
and my first forum was rather.. well, i'd describe it as '21+ only' flame/content-wise.
so eve forums really don't look any hostile to me,
hell, people are quite friendly and very civilized, relatively. Twisted Evil

Severe McCald
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.11.05 11:29:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Nooey
Edited by: Nooey on 04/11/2004 21:26:27
Someone might have already said this, pointed it out. Whatever, I haven't read this thread (EDIT: Ok I have now). Just wanted to quote you Derisor.

Quote One: "Strange though that people cant express their disagreement without being jerks."

Quote Two: "Fortunately you dont set the rules for the forum and fortunately your opinion means absolutely nothing"

Such hypocrisy mate. Lead by example. I'm sorry.


SmileSmileSmile Completely agree. The very two quotes I was trying to put up yesterday, but forums lagged out.

F'nog - masterful Cool

As for the Corp and Alliance forum, it is supposed to be IC and most of the people posting are IC at war with one another. Actually think the mods are overdoing the kid glove thing on there tbh (sorry Eris Embarassed).

Nough said.

Severe

Fuse
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.11.05 12:05:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Iratus Caelestis
If you think this is bad read the Star Wars Galaxies forums.

Shocked
Not even if you paid me. Well maybe if you buy me a free account ill look at it and kill things with you but then again I may turn on you for having me play that awful game. Rolling Eyes

stinky fecker
Posted - 2004.11.05 12:07:00 - [56]
 

i think there should be an 'anything goes' section of the forum, which the moderators don't have access to


Vincent Clarke
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.11.05 12:15:00 - [57]
 

Try the Lineage 2 boards, thats full of mature disscussion... though on the downside its all complants on Botters, Farmers and the worse Customer Service in gaming history ugh

Janna Keio
Gallente
Posted - 2004.11.05 12:34:00 - [58]
 

Perhaps we can change the words...rather than "carebears" and "pirates", what about "doozers" and "fraggles".

Speaking as a doozer, I like nothing better than building something up. Be it mining, refining, manufacture, whatever. I play Civilisation in the cultured ostrich mode... But I don't mind other people playing the game in "fraggle" mode.

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.11.05 12:59:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Janna Keio
Perhaps we can change the words...rather than "carebears" and "pirates", what about "doozers" and "fraggles".

Speaking as a doozer, I like nothing better than building something up. Be it mining, refining, manufacture, whatever. I play Civilisation in the cultured ostrich mode... But I don't mind other people playing the game in "fraggle" mode.


I think Fraggles would be the people in the middle.

Pirates would have to be the Gorgs.

Now, who wants the role of 'The Trash Heap'?

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2004.11.05 16:42:00 - [60]
 

Quote:
Now, who wants the role of 'The Trash Heap'?


Wouldn't that be everyone playing minmatar?Razz


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