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blankseplocked Truth about EVE's "great" GFX's?
 
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destinationunreachable
Hello Kitty Fanclub
Posted - 2009.10.22 14:15:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Zartanic

EDIT: Atika, admit it, you bought EVE thinking it was Excel Online right?Very Happy


What it isn't ?
to be honest I only look at the ships when station spinning, otherwise even (or especially) in PVP there is the grid, the capcitor, the modules, the shield/amor status to look at...
Quiet honestly I don't think anyone has time to see the graphics, they could turn it off and I would see a difference.

ShadowMaster
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.22 14:26:00 - [32]
 

First thing, I have been playing EVE since 2003 and love it.

I actually have to agree with part of what that gentleman says. The models and textures are actually pretty bad, and in a lot of spots. Textures do not line up, the CCP artists seem to put little effort (ok, thats a lie CCP artists are amazing, blame it on management instead) into trying to make parts of ships that are spaced out in UV space match up in the textures. It is most definitely not something that is easy to do, and it takes time, but it is those sort of things that the EVE art is lacking.

Texture density is another thing EVE has an issue with, especially on turrets (I think I saw it on small projectile turrets). If you look at turrets a lot of the time you will see sections of the turret that just seem to have the whole texture applied to it. Not only does that small part of the turret look like **** because its an entire texture applied to one spot, but it really stands out when a small part of the turret has as much texture detail as the entire rest of the gun.

As I am at work I do not have much time to try and find these issues, screenshot them, and post them, but here are a few small examples that I found quickly.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/Untitled1.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/Untitled2.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/Untitled3.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/Untitled[2].jpg

The issues highlighted above have nothing to do with the quality you set your graphics to, they are all texture and UV related issues. Again, they are all small things, but for some one like my self who works in the games industry they irk the ****ing **** out of me. Every time I see them I want to smack a CCP employee for it. Then I remember how much hard work it is, how as a designer I can't paint stick figures let alone the art CCP pulls off, and how this happens in EVERY game not just EVE.

So although yes you can do better, it costs money to pay the artists to do it and as you spend more and more time on a single asset you start getting diminishing results for your efforts (skill system anyone?).

Anyways, my point is CCP has their priorities straight (if the art issues bug you blame management). Get the art done to a set level of quality, move on make more stuff.

I will finish this rant by agreeing with something a fine man above said:
Originally by: Chribba
imo doesn't matter if it's true or not, it looks good in the end and that's all that matters to me, if they bloom the crap outta missing textures and sharp edges they got my approval as long as the end result is good.

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.22 14:27:00 - [33]
 

Could people please stop saying low poly and low res textures are fine because they provide smooth gameplay. The techniques to switch from high poly/resolution models to low ones under stress have been around for years.

EVE's model and texture quality leave a lot to be desired. Just think how good the game would look if they were decent and had the kickass lighting on top of it.

Eran Laude
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2009.10.22 14:38:00 - [34]
 

IMHO, for the most part, EVE looks considerably better than any other MMO out there, DX10 Tortage in AoC excluded. Sure, they use shortcuts, but with all the effects turned on and running off of a decent rig, EVE looks stunning to say the least. Frankly, Jumpgate looks like ****, so the poster referenced in the OP should look to his own game first in critiquing graphical fidelity.

DX11 client please. :)

RabbidFerret
Kinetic Cartel
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.10.22 14:53:00 - [35]
 

I followed the JGE forums for a while. The poster, Tikigod, spends every second of his life on those forums and he is an ungodly prick that spews nonsense at the very mention of Eve. My guess is that he is the stick figure hanging in the noose on that ever famous MMO learning curve graph.

And regardless of the ways that Eve goes about making its graphics, the ship models look a hell of a lot better then JGE.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2009.10.22 15:24:00 - [36]
 

EVE has graphics? Shocked

/me checks graphics settings ... everything low - check ok! All is well Very Happy

Ghoest
Posted - 2009.10.22 15:30:00 - [37]
 

EVEs approach looks good while you play - thats all that matters.

I think more game designers should think like CCp really. Look at the way the human eye and brain work. We dont analyze the textures of most of the stuff we "see" in fact.

Abbadon
Caldari
Pukin' Dogs
D0GMA
Posted - 2009.10.22 15:35:00 - [38]
 

I thought i would share my reply to an Eve comment that was posted on a JGE fan site:


Quote:

#
Ambrosius says:
September 11, 2009 at 1:33 pm

Scordite is for Eve w**kers. There is no scordite for REAL spaceship pilots!
#
Abbadon says:
September 18, 2009 at 9:26 pm

Playing the game is for Eve w**kers. There is no game for BETA spaceship pilots!

fixed your post :D

/Quote


I think that just about sums it up!

Jarna
Amarr
Air EVE
Posted - 2009.10.22 15:37:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Eran Laude
IMHO, for the most part, EVE looks considerably better than any other MMO out there, DX10 Tortage in AoC excluded. Sure, they use shortcuts, but with all the effects turned on and running off of a decent rig, EVE looks stunning to say the least. Frankly, Jumpgate looks like ****, so the poster referenced in the OP should look to his own game first in critiquing graphical fidelity.

DX11 client please. :)


I wouldn't say considerably better. But you also have to factor in that there aren't nearly as many models in EVE that other games have. They should look better due to the mere fact that there aren't as many models they need to work on.

Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2009.10.22 15:51:00 - [40]
 


Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.22 15:57:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Could people please stop saying low poly and low res textures are fine because they provide smooth gameplay. The techniques to switch from high poly/resolution models to low ones under stress have been around for years.

EVE's model and texture quality leave a lot to be desired. Just think how good the game would look if they were decent and had the kickass lighting on top of it.


They've said before Trinity was released that they wanted to reach a high level of detail more through shaders than through geometry and textures perse. It's a design philosophy you can either agree with or not, but they're sticking with it.

That said, there are models in the game which could use some touching up, and cap ships could definately use a higher res texture.

Aarin Wrath
Caldari
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:08:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
That said, there are models in the game which could use some touching up, and cap ships could definately use a higher res texture.


Yeah I would second that. A lot of the capital ships are rather low in poly count and could stand a higher-res texture. Alot of the ships could stand to have their textures re-done as well.

What would be nice, if CCP is keeping the status quo due to performance reasons, is release a High Resolution Texture Pack for Eve. So those of us with decent computers can see EVE in better detail.

I really dont think implementing something like that would be a huge undertaking. They probably have the high-res textures already, and just compressed the be-jesus out of them for the client. So they could just slightly compress them, and tell the client to look at the different textures. Of course this all depends on how CCP implemented textures resources their engine. Neutral

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:08:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Akita T
For a game that's mostly tactical and somewhat strategic, EVE looks too good.
So what if the models are relatively low-poly, so what if the textures are relatively lowres, so what if the shining and whatnot hides all that ?
I play EVE on lowest settings for texture and shader, shadows, bloom and HDR off, and it still looks damn good.
I would totally play EVE if it had the graphic detail of the first Elite.
Heck, I would probably get more accounts since, hey, I could run dozens of instances flawlessly Twisted Evil



an ultra light client would be so ****ing fantastic.

I wish we could disable loading ships graphics, much like we can with drones Sad
(although honestly I wish it was disable "other" drones so you can see your own, kinda useful to know where your drones are shooting without having to lock every target, stupid sentry drones)

Ritzenhoff
Gallente
Ritzenhoff Industrial Design
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:21:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
It's disappointing to see a game go backwards in effects.

So far we have lost engine trails, drone trails, dynamic turret firing effects [think recoil], cyno effects, decent jump effects (the front-to-back skinning was the coolest), lasers lost their 'pew,' blasters are nigh exciting, and probably the worst of all: explosions now use static particle effects rather than physics-based particle effects.

BORING.


CCP needs to step up their graphics.


CCP needs to have 300+ fleet battles. You would like better graphics.

If you'll pardon the pun, the graphics do not exist in a vacuum, and tbh it pleases me that CCP puts gameplay first and graphics second.

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:26:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Kuolematon
Your Nyx is on fire.



Ooooh, we don't need no water let the motherfu...

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:28:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Ritzenhoff
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
It's disappointing to see a game go backwards in effects.

So far we have lost engine trails, drone trails, dynamic turret firing effects [think recoil], cyno effects, decent jump effects (the front-to-back skinning was the coolest), lasers lost their 'pew,' blasters are nigh exciting, and probably the worst of all: explosions now use static particle effects rather than physics-based particle effects.

BORING.


CCP needs to step up their graphics.


CCP needs to have 300+ fleet battles. You would like better graphics.

If you'll pardon the pun, the graphics do not exist in a vacuum, and tbh it pleases me that CCP puts gameplay first and graphics second.

Quality graphics aren't the bottleneck in 300+ fleet battles, server performance is.

Seriah Rezin
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:29:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Verone
I'm sorry, what?

I can't...

...hear his whining...

...over the sound...

...of how ****ing awesome...

...and visually stunning...

...Eve Online...

...happens to be...

...with a good...

...set of hardware.

I also challenge him to do better...


My only critique of this - and this is a great post - is that the '...set of hardware' link should've led to a picture of a nice computer rig. Otherwise? Beautiful.

Jalson
Blueprint Haus
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:38:00 - [48]
 

I didn't read thru all the replies.....but who cares what someone has to say who's coming from a game that doesn't seem to be able to get released. I mean come on....they've been constently delaying that game for almost 2 years now.

Of course you are going to be able to downplay the gfx of a game THAT ALREADY EXISTS you have all the time in the world to make yours better....just delay the release again.

Barakkus
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:49:00 - [49]
 

The backside of a rupture is a better example...actually zoom in on any part of a rupture...

In the end who cares? How often do you find yourself zoomed as far in as possible on your ship and staring at it?

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2009.10.22 16:51:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Razin
graphics aren't the only bottleneck in 300+ fleet battles
Fixed that for ya.

Ordais
Posted - 2009.10.22 17:00:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Ordais on 22/10/2009 17:03:18
Edited by: Ordais on 22/10/2009 17:01:17
man, everyone here saying "but its because of performance" please just shut up? There are easy ways to control that (called LODs) and have been around for ages. The "switch" comes at a cost, but we don't have high-density scenarios here. If you zoom in to look at a ship normally no other ship is closer then a few km anyway, meaning you can put a whole lot of detail in a model if you want.

We have seen high-poly ship-models from ccp (render shots), so we know they have them. It would just be a matter of implementing them so that if you get close the detail comes into view.

Capital ships suffer the most from this. Just zoom in on one. And yes, i play everything on max. Even on the posted screenshots here you can see how low-res the texture on the Nyx is (you can see pixles).

There is room for improvement, and in a few years they will update them again.

P.S. i'm also very disapointed with the new "effects", they are too subtle and generic now. They lost functionality.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.22 17:29:00 - [52]
 

Has everyone seen 'The Butterfly Effect' video? I'd say CCP are proud of that one.

Anyone else notice the amount of touching up they did in post-production? Makes me think that they realise that graphics need updating too.

Vanderie
Amarr
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.10.22 17:43:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: brutoid
Has everyone seen 'The Butterfly Effect' video? I'd say CCP are proud of that one.

Anyone else notice the amount of touching up they did in post-production? Makes me think that they realise that graphics need updating too.


They probably were using the non-scaled down textures; remember, CCP has to lower the polycount for the live server so that people with older systems can actually play. Sure they could bump up the polycount, but then we'd be looking at a 20gb install (maybe more) and no-one with a lower range computer would be able to play without freezing every time they loaded a ship texture.

-Van

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.10.22 18:16:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
So far we have lost engine trails, drone trails, dynamic turret firing effects [think recoil], cyno effects, decent jump effects (the front-to-back skinning was the coolest), lasers lost their 'pew,' blasters are nigh exciting, and probably the worst of all: explosions now use static particle effects rather than physics-based particle effects.


I miss engine trails the most. The way something would leave streaks in space when it warped off or dropped out of warp was fantastic.
And confirming that the front-to-back skinning on jumping (and all cloaking) was awesome.

Of course the game still looks great but I have to side with siig, a number of the effects have taken a step backwards.

Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.22 18:45:00 - [55]
 

Eve has graphics?

Seriously, I hardly see space because my screens are usually cluttered by different interfaces that need a lot more of my attention.

Went on Sisi the day the new background was patched there. After three minutes of looking at them, I didn't realise anymore that they updated something.

I totally don't care about graphics in a game and I am under the impression most Online-Gamers don't. This has an extra-strong point in situations where you want to minimize the occurance of client-side lag, making it mandatory to switch off all effects, like in larger fleet-fights. I usually forget to turn them back on afterwards.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.10.22 18:59:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 22/10/2009 19:01:06
I would say the name of thread the OP pulled that from pretty much says it all.
Thread: Are the US forums as dead as ours ?

Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
Posted - 2009.10.22 19:55:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Kuolematon
Is this true? c/d
Is what true exactly? The JGE shill isn't saying Eve doesn't look great, he's saying that he doesn't approve of the methods used to achieve that look even though his own game uses similar tricks. (Or will use similar tricks if and when it's released.)

When challenged to provide an example of game with superior appearance, well... further affiant sayeth naught, so I'm not sure what it is we are to confirm or deny.



Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.10.22 20:25:00 - [58]
 

No MMO in existence even comes remotely close to Age of Conan with DX10 and a high end graphics hard.

The visuals in Age of Conan are so mind blowing that I've often found myself just walking around and taking screenshots.

That being said, they can't get 50 people fighting in one spot without without the zone crashing, so there's something to be said for low polygon count coupled with a really good use of lighting and shadows.

Like a few other people have said, EVE is text based game that just happens to have graphics. I could literally play all day without ever looking at my ship... even in PVP.

Seriah Rezin
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.22 20:30:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Like a few other people have said, EVE is text based game that just happens to have graphics. I could literally play all day without ever looking at my ship... even in PVP.

Laughing I would love to see someone make an indy game based on that premise: A text-based EVE.


Night Epoch
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.10.22 20:33:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Night Epoch on 22/10/2009 20:36:16
I run EVE at 1900x1220 at full graphics/hdr/bloom and it's a f*cking stunning looking game. Absolutely one of the best looking MMOs out there.

That the ships themselves are highly reflective of their environment doesn't bother me at all - it all looks bloody Ace so I don't care how it's done.


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