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Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.07 11:47:00 - [211]
 

I wonder why no one stops for a moment and gives a clear definition of what a carebear and what a pvp'er is. EVE thrives on the grey area, not on the black and white ones.

This discussion is pointless untill people get that simple fact into their heads.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.07 11:48:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Carebears are not welcome in this game. I think it's time CCP dropped their subscriptions from Eve. Hardcore PVPers do NOT need carebears, period. This game would only improve without their presence. If you cannot understand this simple concept it is because you're an idiot and you're part of the problem.

Carebears are nothing but parasites that suck the life out of games. Then they move on to the next game. They do nothing but whine and ask for security from the developers. CCP needs to realize that this game is slowly dying because of the damage these parasites are causing. Please help me start a thread on this in the Assembly Hall asking CSMs to bring this issue up to CCP. If this game is to move forward then we will need to get rid of the carebears.

I know there is already a most avid anti-carebear movement group on board with me and I've taken the liberty to sign their names to this request below.

Malcanis
Akita T
DigitalCommunist
Le Skunk
Rells

If we do not do anything about this unfortunate vermin that has attached itself into Eve we risk losing the great minds above. Please help support the cause. We need to get rid of the carebears.

Thank you




That's most helpful of you, but shouldn't this have been posted in the assembly hall forum?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.07 11:52:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: kongking wang
tell us all exactly what you think would happon if you removed carebears from eve completely.
In essence, take the changes that happened after Unholy Rage and extrapolate:
  • Lower subscription numbers
  • Less server load
  • Increased prices on certain mission- and LP-related items (mainly empire faction ships and implants)
  • Mid-level mining increases in value
  • Over time, loosened restrictions and penalties on high-sec violence

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.07 11:57:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
That's most helpful of you, but shouldn't this have been posted in the assembly hall forum?

Patience, my anti-carebear brother. First we must garner support from the mainstream players in the General Discussion Forums. Once we muster their support we will be ready to attack the carebears where it hurts. For now just keep spewing anti-carebear rhetoric. Sooner or later the majority will be on board.


DTson Gauur
Caldari
Blend.
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2009.10.07 11:57:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Carebears are not welcome in this game. I think it's time CCP dropped their subscriptions from Eve. Hardcore PVPers do NOT need carebears, period. This game would only improve without their presence. If you cannot understand this simple concept it is because you're an idiot and you're part of the problem.



So you're saying CCP should lose 80% of it's paying customers? Yeah right, like that is ever going to happen.

MIND SCR4MBLER
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:01:00 - [216]
 

rells likes PVP because he wants a combat challenge.

then he poasts from the carebear comfort zone of caldari provisions aka noobs r us.

well done rells, you are pure win PVP. you typify the sort of crybaby emorager who says there is not enough PVP, then avoids any sort of unwanted PVP by hiding in a noob corp.

when you set up a 1 man corp, go to jita and proclaim your vision of death of carebears and your desire for PVP generating war-decs you might have a point.

And i would actually say a good majority of empire carebearism is to fund 0.0 life. after all without the isk-tap of moon-goo, high end minerals and overpriced 10/10 deadspace modules sold to mission running bears exactly how do you think the alliances would fund war????

theres plenty of online "pure" PVP games. COD4 is much better for "pure PVP with no carebearism" than Eve ever was, so the translation is you want PVP, but you only want PVP you can win. and you dont want carebears removed you just want their protection removed so you can prove how leet you are by attacking targets that cant destroy your precious ship back.

For everyone else who thinks there isn't nuff PVP in eve, rancer, tama, any one of several major choke points into 0.0 - there be combat waiting for you in quantity. of course you might lose, but if you were in for a "challenge" then surely this is your ideal chance..

/signed by PVPs carebear alt :)

kongking wang
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:03:00 - [217]
 

i see myself as a carebear out of nescesity rather than choice. first of if i have poor skills and isk what am i supposed to do. pvp till i got nothing then quit eve because grinding a bit of isk just to loose it in a sensless pvp match im not skilled to be in. forcing people into pvp is stupid and in effect would force pvp'er carebear alts to do the same.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:05:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER
rells likes PVP because he wants a combat challenge.

then he poasts from the carebear comfort zone of caldari provisions aka noobs r us.

well done rells, you are pure win PVP. you typify the sort of crybaby emorager who says there is not enough PVP, then avoids any sort of unwanted PVP by hiding in a noob corp.



What fail!

Even I know better then this. He has "quit" long ago, and is no longe rin his corp/allaince.

Try to read harder next time, or maby you do not have the menatality to actually read and figure stuff out other then trolling and drawing conclusions based on nothing :P

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:08:00 - [219]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 07/10/2009 12:08:46
Originally by: DTson Gauur
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Carebears are not welcome in this game. I think it's time CCP dropped their subscriptions from Eve. Hardcore PVPers do NOT need carebears, period. This game would only improve without their presence. If you cannot understand this simple concept it is because you're an idiot and you're part of the problem.



So you're saying CCP should lose 80% of it's paying customers? Yeah right, like that is ever going to happen.


We need to get rid of this cancer that is carebears at all costs. Even if it means sacrificing and burning Eve to the ground. I won't be happy until carebears are gone from the game. All those who support me say "HEY BROTHA!":

...

Come on, Malcanis and Akita T, I know you want to :)


PostWithYourAlt
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:08:00 - [220]
 

It is rather funny how on one side whenever we discuss the removal of the insurance system all PVP players state it will ruin PVP because of how it will make their ships even more expensive and how small alliances will suffer from it, -

But then they are suddenly all applauding to the idea of removing Mission Runners from the game, - The one entity in the game that actually keeps the ship and module prices down.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:11:00 - [221]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 07/10/2009 12:15:02
Originally by: DTson Gauur
So you're saying CCP should lose 80% of it's paying customers? Yeah right, like that is ever going to happen.

There's that 80% again… how do you arrive at that number?
Originally by: kongking wang
i see myself as a carebear out of nescesity rather than choice. first of if i have poor skills and isk what am i supposed to do.
Find a corp where what skills you have can be put to good use, and where your ISK might not be that much of a problem since they'll refund your losses, either because they'll be so small (because your skills don't allow you to fly anything expensive), or because your loss is an inevitable cost of doing business (aka tackling).
Quote:
just to loose it in a sensless pvp match im not skilled to be in.
The skill you're lacking is the one you can't train through your character sheet: ship combat. You'll want to train that skill now, when ship losses and clones are cheap and (should you get too eager) SP losses are minimal.

I made the mistake of waiting too long, and while my char sheet says I can fly every T1-T3 sub-BS class of ship in the game, I'm back to flying T1 frigates and cruisers, because those are the ships I — not my character — can actually fly.
Originally by: PostWithYourAlt
But then they are suddenly all applauding to the idea of removing Mission Runners from the game, - The one entity in the game that actually keeps the ship and module prices down.
Arguable. They may not contribute to cost increase due to demand — since they rarely have to buy new modules — but since they are rolling in cash and never lose their stuff, and could therefore pay a far higher price per item and not bat an eye.

Tramp Oline
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:11:00 - [222]
 

You build some of your own stuff? OMG ... you are a carebear!

Every PvPer that I know has carebear alts of their own.

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:18:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: PostWithYourAlt
It is rather funny how on one side whenever we discuss the removal of the insurance system all PVP players state it will ruin PVP because of how it will make their ships even more expensive and how small alliances will suffer from it, -

But then they are suddenly all applauding to the idea of removing Mission Runners from the game, - The one entity in the game that actually keeps the ship and module prices down.


this.

with the absence of carebear-'activities' ship prices would just explode.

small alliances would suffer and big alliances would become even more powerfull
since they have huge isk reserves from their years of gold moon mining.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:18:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Malcanis
That's most helpful of you, but shouldn't this have been posted in the assembly hall forum?

Patience, my anti-carebear brother. First we must garner support from the mainstream players in the General Discussion Forums. Once we muster their support we will be ready to attack the carebears where it hurts. For now just keep spewing anti-carebear rhetoric. Sooner or later the majority will be on board.




You mean we must build campaign momentum before launching the formal proposal? Yes... that makes sense. Good thinking!

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:19:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: PostWithYourAlt
It is rather funny how on one side whenever we discuss the removal of the insurance system all PVP players state it will ruin PVP because of how it will make their ships even more expensive and how small alliances will suffer from it, -


Not really. I would certainly support the total removal of insurance from Eve, and have called for it before.
There is no point to PvP if there is no loss, and insurance greatly mitigates such losses.

Actually, that might be a good way to tie up with CCP's push to get players out of NPC corps. Remove personal insurance and allow only corp insurance of ships.
I would rather it was gone completely though.

MIND SCR4MBLER
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:22:00 - [226]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER
rells likes PVP because he wants a combat challenge.

then he poasts from the carebear comfort zone of caldari provisions aka noobs r us.

well done rells, you are pure win PVP. you typify the sort of crybaby emorager who says there is not enough PVP, then avoids any sort of unwanted PVP by hiding in a noob corp.



What fail!

Even I know better then this. He has "quit" long ago, and is no longe rin his corp/allaince.

Try to read harder next time, or maby you do not have the menatality to actually read and figure stuff out other then trolling and drawing conclusions based on nothing :P


if he has quit then his opinions matter why????

typical forum "wah wah CCP won't make Eve revolve around me" fail poast.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:22:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Heroldyn
with the absence of carebear-'activities' ship prices would just explode.
…and that's a strawman: no-one is (really) arguing against carebear activities (well… some are, but that's because missions just pay too bloody much) — they're arguing against carebears, the personality type.

And even so, considering the overproduction capacity in EVE, I doubt the loss of a few carebears would make much of a difference on the ship prices — they're not contributing much on either the demand or the supply side.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:23:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Heroldyn

with the absence of carebear-'activities' ship prices would just explode.


This would be a good thing.
Ships should be more expensive, or ISK less easily available.

Anhur Shu
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:24:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte


your "example" doesn't fit your logic.

following your logic, you'd join the army & "grind" for your gear without actually training the usage. when you get deployed you might have the shiniest and biggest weapons available, but your experience in using it is actually 0. it's like being told to operate a radar, while you don't even know how to turn on your mobile phone Razz



^^^ was never in the military.....just taking a wild guess here

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:28:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Heroldyn
with the absence of carebear-'activities' ship prices would just explode.
…and that's a strawman: no-one is (really) arguing against carebear activities (well… some are, but that's because missions just pay too bloody much) — they're arguing against carebears, the personality type.

And even so, considering the overproduction capacity in EVE, I doubt the loss of a few carebears would make much of a difference on the ship prices — they're not contributing much on either the demand or the supply side.


then make it clear what we are discussion. so you want to remove the 'carebear' type from the game as you call it. what does that mean ? people that spend most of their time with 'carebear-activities' ?

the point is: would everyone be a hardcore pvp 'type', there would'nt be enough lowend minerals to build their ships. Unlike the 'pvp type' would then itself spend most of their time in 'carebear-activities' that would then make them 'carebear-type' aswell.

the more people do less pve and more pvp, the higher the prices of 'stuff' becomes.

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:28:00 - [231]
 

You know, when I was a kid about 25 years ago or so, there was a Common out behind where I lived and at the time all us kids used to go out there and run around playing War, Cops and Robbers, build forts, tree houses and whatnot.

Well there was always one kid who would tell everybody that they are playing it wrong and would stomp off and take their toys with them...

This thread reminds me of that!

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:37:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Heroldyn
then make it clear what we are discussion. so you want to remove the 'carebear' type from the game as you call it. what does that mean ? people that spend most of their time with 'carebear-activities' ?
People who don't want to compete. People who want to "do their own thing without bothering anyone" (which is impossible). People who want to be left in a personal bubble. People who refuse to understand the interconnected nature of the game and how they affect everyone else with their actions. In essence, those who want EVE to be X3 with an IRC client attached to it.
Quote:
the point is: would everyone be a hardcore pvp 'type', there would'nt be enough lowend minerals to build their ships. Unlike the 'pvp type' would then itself spend most of their time in 'carebear-activities' that would then make them 'carebear-type' aswell.
There would be, because some nasty evil industrialist would jump on the opportunity to beat his competition (i.e. engage in PvP) by cornering that market. There is this wierd assumption that PvPers don't already do this stuff — they do. They always have. If they can help it, they stay away, sure, but they also know an opportunity to win big when they see it, and will jump on it in an instant.

Maria Martillo
Amarr
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:40:00 - [233]
 

Accounts with no killmails should be banned inside a certain period of time..

Also, a kill ratio under, i.e. 75%... indicates carebear in disguise....

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:43:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Tippia



besides all your twiddling around, my point still stands:

Quote:

the more people do less pve and more pvp, the higher the prices of 'stuff' becomes.


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:50:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Heroldyn
Originally by: Tippia



besides all your twiddling around, my point still stands:

Quote:

the more people do less pve and more pvp, the higher the prices of 'stuff' becomes.




Which means PvP losses are more meaningful and the remaining producers make more profit.
Would you care to point out why you think this wouldn't be a desireable situation?

Gefex
Genco
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:51:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Neocron and UO died because the metagame grew stale and repetitive. Like almost all games do.


UO isn't dead! PvP in UO died when the introduced Trammel about 7 years ago. But its still alive and kicking in one form or another, also has a new 3D client which is pretty sweet. For the hardcore PvPer there is always Siege Perilous which is a legacy ruleset server.

But yeah, PvP is the lifeblood of MMO's, its ultimately what drives people to be 'better'. Without it MMO's have a limited lifespan, once the PvE content gets stale for someone they will leave. PvP is never ending entertainment.

Carebear's come and go, there may well be exceptions but ultimately they will be short term players.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:56:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: Heroldyn
besides all your twiddling around, my point still stands:
Quote:
the more people do less pve and more pvp, the higher the prices of 'stuff' becomes.

No, for the simple reason that manufacturing is not PvE.

Also, I thought your point was that "would everyone be a hardcore pvp 'type', there would'nt be enough lowend minerals to build their ships. Unlike the 'pvp type' would then itself spend most of their time in 'carebear-activities' that would then make them 'carebear-type' aswell." This isn't true either, for a very similar reason: engaging in the activities carebears like doesn't make you a carebear — it's the attitude to that activity, and towards its (and your own) place in the larger EVE ecosystem.

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.10.07 12:57:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Heroldyn
Originally by: Tippia



besides all your twiddling around, my point still stands:

Quote:

the more people do less pve and more pvp, the higher the prices of 'stuff' becomes.




Which means PvP losses are more meaningful and the remaining producers make more profit.
Would you care to point out why you think this wouldn't be a desireable situation?


dont get me wrong, it is totally a very desirable situation in my view. but have a look on the threads where insurance removal is discussed. all your pvp 'friends' are in great fear of their ships getting more expensive :)

i can however also understand them to some degree, because in essence more expensive stuffs means a more difficult time for smaller corps and alliances - to me a situation i dont really care about but propably not desireable for most.

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.10.07 13:01:00 - [239]
 

Edited by: Heroldyn on 07/10/2009 13:04:19
Edited by: Heroldyn on 07/10/2009 13:03:29
Originally by: Tippia
Also, I thought your point was that..


no that was a statement i used to lead towards my point.
you are free to pick my posts apart but then dont try to decide what my point are. lol.

edit
forgott to adress your argument:

manufacturing requires low end minerals. they are collected through mission running (and highsec mining).


MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.07 13:04:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Gefex
Carebear's come and go, there may well be exceptions but ultimately they will be short term players.

And since this is pulled straight out of your ass I guess proof isn't needed. Been playing for 5 years and still a carebear. I guess I'm the exception eh?



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