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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2009.10.05 12:34:00 - [1]
 

What else is coming for null sec? CCP Chronotis gives us the inside scoop on some of the design changes in store in his newest dev blog.

Kanuo Ashkeron
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.10.05 12:45:00 - [2]
 

So finally my first First! :)

Dev blog sounds good.

Treelox
Posted - 2009.10.05 12:45:00 - [3]
 

good read

Let the market realignment madness BEGIN!!!!

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.10.05 12:57:00 - [4]
 

Great changes, it'll be interesting to see how it all works out Smile
(And of course the market speculation will be even more interesting Wink)

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:10:00 - [5]
 

WTB WTS OMG THE MARKET!

Interesting times ahead for sure. Very Happy

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:10:00 - [6]
 

I'm curious about the explanations on how those 'upgrades' work story wise. I sure hope you're not breaking world logic with them.

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:10:00 - [7]
 

It seems slightly odd to me that shield tanking ships will need so many more armor plates than shield emitters.

Darth Sith
Genbuku.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:16:00 - [8]
 

I welcome the changes as I do believe that the game has become quite static.

My question is this though; For those of us who specifically shelled out the billions to create sov 4 constellations, will there be any inherit benifits as we loose sov 4 and transition to the new mechanics? These sov 4 constellations represent a significant investment on our behalf and while I agree, sov 4 in it's own was a bad idea we should get a 'free' upgrade in the new system. ie: any sov 4 capitals get a free resource hub with a couple of upgrades on it. Would make the change a bit easier to swallow I think :)

As a T2 producer, I think the changes to moon goo requiremenet are overdue as well. Should be interesting to see where the market stabilizes in Dominion and for sure I will be building my T2 in small batches for the foreseable future as there is no telling where this will end up :)

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:16:00 - [9]
 

Wait a second.

Are you going to prevent "solar system grinding" in some way? Similarly to fantasy games where you have to kill a billion rats with sticks to level up, you could run into the same problem if players have to grind, let's say, gneiss for weeks until they can unlock crockite.

This could be an enormous fun breaker for many..

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:24:00 - [10]
 

sounds like a radical change at least, but with this ability to make systems so good, and in a large part removal of the massive moon income, what will there actually be wort fighting over?

Why would a alliance a invade alliance b anymore if both can upgrade their region/constelation just as much? wont all regions in the end turn into the same then?

Jareck Hunter
Rubicon Legion
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:26:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Jareck Hunter on 05/10/2009 13:27:13
-Each upgrade will have a build cost in creating the upgrade and the resource upgrades themselves will have different pre-requisites, some of which will be activity-based, such as NPCs killed or ore mined within the system itself, which will add to the development index of the system.-

Eh..what?
I could have Billions on my Wallet, but i can't buy an Upgrade cause i have to grind more Veldspar?

[Irony on]
Welcome to WOW, now the sky is falling^^
[Irony off]

Stein Voorhees
Caldari
Ghost in the Machine
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:33:00 - [12]
 

Is it possible for enemies to attack/degrade/destroy upgrades in a system or are these upgrades permanent? (I'm hoping for a properly balanced way to destroy your enemies infrastructure).

SeismicForce
Terra Incognita
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:34:00 - [13]
 

Blog sounds interesting, I have a question though : what happens to the upgraded system if you lose it to another alliance? Do they take over all that you worked for, or does the whole thing start from 0 again and the new owner must build it up?

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:39:00 - [14]
 

One upgrade I'd suggest would be allowing agents to be "hired" for null sec stations that don't have them. This would allow quite a few extra people to live in a system.

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:39:00 - [15]
 

It is ridiculous when they are talking about how less grindy they want to make EVE and then introduce 'infrastructure upgrades'...

And now you might to elaborate how you want to attract people to 0.0 when I can already grind in empire. Are raids one of those upgrades? Because that is what EVE is missing in comparison to other mainstream MMOs.

Great work, CCP. You're almost there.

Rodrigo Talavera
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:43:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
And now you might to elaborate how you want to attract people to 0.0 when I can already grind in empire.


You can grind wherever you want, but it just makes sense to be able to grind better in null sec. Don't forget, we can still pvp too.

Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:44:00 - [17]
 

Why not just adjust some of the R64 based reactions to use more thulium/neodymium and less dyspro/prom? Adjusting neo/thul to being used in the same proportion as dyspro/prom would nearly double the amount of R64 moons going into the R64 reactions and achieve the same effect.

LegendaryFrog
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:45:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Darth Sith
I welcome the changes as I do believe that the game has become quite static.

My question is this though; For those of us who specifically shelled out the billions to create sov 4 constellations, will there be any inherit benifits as we loose sov 4 and transition to the new mechanics? These sov 4 constellations represent a significant investment on our behalf and while I agree, sov 4 in it's own was a bad idea we should get a 'free' upgrade in the new system. ie: any sov 4 capitals get a free resource hub with a couple of upgrades on it. Would make the change a bit easier to swallow I think :)

As a T2 producer, I think the changes to moon goo requiremenet are overdue as well. Should be interesting to see where the market stabilizes in Dominion and for sure I will be building my T2 in small batches for the foreseable future as there is no telling where this will end up :)



They already said no. The "reward" to established alliances for their sov investments is simply being already established. Beyond that the response is "lol deal with it"

Doomed Predator
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:48:00 - [19]
 

I for one welcome our new 75 mill HAC overlords.

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:50:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Rodrigo Talavera

You can grind wherever you want, but it just makes sense to be able to grind better in null sec. Don't forget, we can still pvp too.


Making grind more rewarding does not make the game less grindy... Also considering you will make the grind more required at the same time it makes the whole thing meaningless.

It would only make sense to make 0.0 less grindy with 'passive' income, that would actualy be a reason why people would come to live in 0.0.
Unfortunately that would require some thought-out creative solution...



Bonny Lee
Caldari
Starkstrom
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:51:00 - [21]
 

Those grind-elements take care of alliances who want to upgrade their space without using it.
It makes no more sense to have 3 regions claimed if none of the systems is good cause of all
players spread out so much. Better go with 10-20 Systems and try to upgrade them.

Full Bowl
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:52:00 - [22]
 

Here come the Alliance R64 tears. "Boo Hoo...All our time and ISK was wasted!"

Aralis
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.05 13:57:00 - [23]
 

Depressing reading. I had hoped a few weeks silence meant you were rethinking this nonsense. Instead it confirms the worst rumours.

destinationunreachable
Hello Kitty Fanclub
Posted - 2009.10.05 14:02:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Aralis
Depressing reading. I had hoped a few weeks silence meant you were rethinking this nonsense. Instead it confirms the worst rumours.


Shouldn't CVA + and the other providence holders be the winner of the changes (as opposed to PL, who are just living of moon gold ) ?

Thebro Nobrunder
Schrodinger's Renegades
Posted - 2009.10.05 14:03:00 - [25]
 

Why not change moons to give some of all minerals. High quality moons would give large quantities of rare moon goo while low quality moons would give small quantities of rare goo and large quantities of common goo.

This would allow rare moons to still be profitable while allowing the supply of the rare goo to increase.

Currently mining the worst moons isn't worth the cost of the pos.

Akura kawanaka
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.10.05 14:05:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Full Bowl
Here come the Alliance R64 tears. "Boo Hoo...All our time and ISK was wasted!"


I don't think it's that at all.

I went to 0.0 to escape the grind - I was sick of mining, sick of ratting, sick of doing missions. I wanted to pvp. My alliance ship replacement programs exist because of the passive income and so we had minimal outlay of time to make money - I can loose a battleship every month and only pay for fittings. On top of that all the fittings are discounted. Everything in 0.0 is geared towards keeping the pvp going.

You're not going to turn seasoned pvp veterans into mining/ratting carebears over night. I'm not one to cry "eve is dying" or emo-rage-quit myself, but but, like others have said, if I have to "grind" veldspar just so my alliance can have access to arkonor and can make tech II ships, then the game is going to be very very not-fun.

Also: where is the incentive to pvp? If, once upgraded a system stays upgraded, then there is incentive, but eventually every system will be upgraded. If the systems degrade after losing sovereignty, then it will just be one massive pain in the ass..... I can't see how this is going to work at the moment.

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.10.05 14:07:00 - [27]
 

Excellent, you have no idea how happy you just made T2 ship producers, such as myself.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.10.05 14:07:00 - [28]
 

When does the 0.0 Local gets changed to the 'delayed' mode? (together with the ships scanner upgrades)

What's CCP's plan on this? Schedule?

Would fit right in with Dominion, IMO.

Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
Posted - 2009.10.05 14:08:00 - [29]
 

Confirming the spaceholding alliance nerf. Let's get rich in empire, guys.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.10.05 14:09:00 - [30]
 

Quote:
Are you going to prevent "solar system grinding" in some way? Similarly to fantasy games where you have to kill a billion rats with sticks to level up, you could run into the same problem if players have to grind, let's say, gneiss for weeks until they can unlock crockite.


An understandable question, but the answer is fairly simple I think.

Miners mine, ratters rat, explorers explore... that won't change. The only thing that is changing is that now there will be good reasons to coordinate those activities in specific locations. Those reasons being that by focusing on a particular area you ensure that the availability of the resource in question is sufficient to support a denser population (as it currently isn't), and that more profitable versions of that resource become available. If you have 100 people that frequently mine, but now do it in 100 different systems, their income is capped. But if they all focus in the same system they can coordinate better, still have plenty to go around, and make more profit for their time as the quality of that resource in that system increases.

So I don't think it will be a matter of "spending more time grinding" rather it will be more an effort to "focus your efforts in a particular area". I think this will occur naturally anyway, as people tend to congregate in area's where their particular method of making isk is easier and more lucrative.

Quote:
sounds like a radical change at least, but with this ability to make systems so good, and in a large part removal of the massive moon income, what will there actually be wort fighting over? Why would a alliance a invade alliance b anymore if both can upgrade their region/constelation just as much? wont all regions in the end turn into the same then?


Point passive income sources like moon minerals will still have value and will not be ignored by alliances, although we should see different moon rise rapidly in importance (which will spark conflict on that score alone). Additionally, not all area's will have the same potential value (this was mentioned in previous dev comments). I could also easily see some area's that have a higher value for specific activities than other systems do. Delve could end up with a higher upgrade potential when it comes to mining, Fountain could have a higher upgrade potential when it comes to officer spawns, Tribute could end up having a much higher amount of comets passing through when fully upgraded along that line. Its a pretty flexible system.
But even if all systems progress at the same rate some will still be inherently more valuable than others if fully developed. This adds a lot of dynamics to the situation that weren't there before, and gives more reason for conflict... not only over resources present but over who has the capability to develop an area to it's fullest.

Quote:
Blog sounds interesting, I have a question though : what happens to the upgraded system if you lose it to another alliance? Do they take over all that you worked for, or does the whole thing start from 0 again and the new owner must build it up?


This is the critical question. Leaving upgrades in tact after a power shift gives a strong reason to conquer new territory, particularly if it is well developed. Making those upgrades "destructible" encourages raiding (or taking sov temporarily) for the sake of disrupting infrastructure more viable. Either way should be interesting. Personally, I vote for the latter.

Quote:
And now you might to elaborate how you want to attract people to 0.0 when I can already grind in empire. Are raids one of those upgrades? Because that is what EVE is missing in comparison to other mainstream MMOs.


My suggestion would be to read the reply's here more closely, and future dev blogs on the subject. I don't think you fully grasp how the mechanic will affect the EVE population.


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