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Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.31 05:31:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: goodby4u

They had the necessary weapons to defeat the ori(the arc of truth itself) they were simply unwilling to use it(for obvious reasons)... Each battle they were on the losing end of they ran.

They overwhelmed the wraith for about 20-30 years, an offensive would had wiped them out without much trouble, however they were unwilling to attack them.

Watch the ascension episode with the time dilation field in sga, they were complete pacifists.


No its explained in the very first episode of Atlantis by the city computer that the ancients were technologically superior but the wraith grew in numbers too fast for them to be defeated and quite litterally the atlantis empire that was in pegasus shrank from galaxy wide to only the city. At that point they decided it just wasnt worth it anymore, sunk the city and retreated back to earth through the stargate. They never overwelmed the wraith, quite the opposite (rewatch the first half hour of the first episode).

They owned or protected about every planet in the galaxy and the wraith started on one, logically the ancients overwhelmed them at some point.

Also that same episode said they won every battle but were losing the war, this means that if they won every battle and were gaining ground then eventually the wraith would run out of cloning facilities and basic planets so they would be overwhelmed again. It is obvious they didn't do this as it would have been a short war.

As far as them being cowards, that was a result of them not wishing to be violent and therefore forfeit their life's work.

The final test for them was in a sense learning the difference between a good reason and a bad reason to fight.


Im really not inclined to go watch the show again but checking gateworld on the information in regards to the wraith, atlantis and the first episode it all points to the same thing in that the ancients had their asses handed to them by the wraith.

They (ancients) may have won ever engagement but when the enemy can replace its numbers far more quickly then you can even your victories become hollow ones (if in a battle you kill 100k enemies and only suffer 1000 losses yourself, but in a few months your enemy can recoop those losses while you cant, its simply turns into a situation where whoever can replenish their numbers the fastest wins the war.)

In regards to the time dialation episode I still think it proves that being a pacifist was not required to ascend. Hell Daniel Jackson sure wasnt one (not to mention he loathed the ghould) and he was allowed to ascend.

In any case thats enough nerdum for me for the evening.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.10.31 05:39:00 - [212]
 

I agree, my self confidence is slowly draining as I realize that I watched too much Stargate. Confused

Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
Posted - 2009.10.31 06:18:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Khemul Zula on 31/10/2009 06:19:39
Honestly, I think it just comes down to silly writers.

Stargate SG-1 seemed to have had a lot (especially in the early seasons) of the extreme pacifist type of writers. The type that believe that violence shouldn't even be used for self-defense. This tends to give you characters that range from stuck-up to compelete *******s. Daniel Jackson seems at many points like he was meant to be one of these characters and was more pushed in the other direct as the show went on. The Nox were definately designed as hyper-pacifists, which just made them seem like *******s because of the "We won't mention this until everything is over with but we don't need you help. Until then we will keep allowing you to believe we need it though and reinforce our own superiority the whole time over the barbarians (who are just trying to help and would maybe stop trying to kill things if someone just said 'we won't actually die and don't need help')" attitude. Most the other races (including the Ancients and Asgard) just got the stuck-up "We are superior because we are more advanced and don't need to fight like the younger races do!" treatment.

The Ancients were maybe meant to be pacifist because sci-fi writers (especially the extreme pacifists) tend to love the idea of advanced = pacifists. But then they decided to make the galaxy rather violent and hostile, which makes super-advanced pacifists seem like *******s who would rather watch millions die then help, so they were forced to make them more like humans (hell, they made then actually humans Laughing) but still gave them a moral superiority (translation: they suck at fighting and are prone to leaving doomsday tech laying around for others to find but would never dream of using it Laughing).

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2009.10.31 10:54:00 - [214]
 

Hmmm ... could the ancients be a way of portraying the western industrialized world that allows the third world to roll along in misery, ruled by war lords and religious extremists because they think their sons are to good to go die in the dirt for a bunch of people who don't have lives as good as theirs?

*shrug*

Or ... were they just flailing away ... making it all up as they went along ... and the form the ancients took just ... sorta happened?



Anyway ... SG:U seems to have finally gotten rolling on the "OK. Here's the problem. See the Heroes solve it just before the clock strikes midnight and they all turn into pumpkins," stride that will probably be their staple. Nothing really terrible happened ... writing wise that is. *shrug* I am kind of curious as to how a bunch of space bugs that could fit in a milk can managed to consume 40,000 gallons of water ... or just what good two pallets of ice is going to do in replacing that ... Did I get that figure right? Was it 40,000 gallons? Or was it liters? Either way ... that's like a **** load of water. How much does a swimming pool hold? Is there some secret stash of bug **** down in the bilge where all that water went? Or was it really the bugs that drank it?

*eh*


More shots of the space ship ... ("See our cool model!") ...













ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2009.10.31 12:54:00 - [215]
 

Another redshirt bites the dust.

nahtoh
Caldari
Brotherhood of The Saltire
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2009.10.31 13:44:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: goodby4u

They had the necessary weapons to defeat the ori(the arc of truth itself) they were simply unwilling to use it(for obvious reasons)... Each battle they were on the losing end of they ran.

They overwhelmed the wraith for about 20-30 years, an offensive would had wiped them out without much trouble, however they were unwilling to attack them.

Watch the ascension episode with the time dilation field in sga, they were complete pacifists.


No its explained in the very first episode of Atlantis by the city computer that the ancients were technologically superior but the wraith grew in numbers too fast for them to be defeated and quite litterally the atlantis empire that was in pegasus shrank from galaxy wide to only the city. At that point they decided it just wasnt worth it anymore, sunk the city and retreated back to earth through the stargate. They never overwelmed the wraith, quite the opposite (rewatch the first half hour of the first episode).

They owned or protected about every planet in the galaxy and the wraith started on one, logically the ancients overwhelmed them at some point.

Also that same episode said they won every battle but were losing the war, this means that if they won every battle and were gaining ground then eventually the wraith would run out of cloning facilities and basic planets so they would be overwhelmed again. It is obvious they didn't do this as it would have been a short war.

As far as them being cowards, that was a result of them not wishing to be violent and therefore forfeit their life's work.

The final test for them was in a sense learning the difference between a good reason and a bad reason to fight.


Im really not inclined to go watch the show again but checking gateworld on the information in regards to the wraith, atlantis and the first episode it all points to the same thing in that the ancients had their asses handed to them by the wraith.

They (ancients) may have won ever engagement but when the enemy can replace its numbers far more quickly then you can even your victories become hollow ones (if in a battle you kill 100k enemies and only suffer 1000 losses yourself, but in a few months your enemy can recoop those losses while you cant, its simply turns into a situation where whoever can replenish their numbers the fastest wins the war.)

In regards to the time dialation episode I still think it proves that being a pacifist was not required to ascend. Hell Daniel Jackson sure wasnt one (not to mention he loathed the ghould) and he was allowed to ascend.

In any case thats enough nerdum for me for the evening.


The wraith managed to get there hands on some ZPM modules to super charge very large cloning fa****y, thats when things went pearshaped for the ancients. As for no interfearance after they ascended perhaps they just did not want to be like the ori or they had made to manay mistakes trying to shepard younger races before they ascended.

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.31 14:14:00 - [217]
 

/me notices this thread is no longer about the new series :)

regardless... i only have one thing to say about SGU at the moment: one more miraculous escape out of nowhere and i'm going to stop bothering with it, close second - another ohnoes we have to get back in x time or we're going to be left behind.

Seriously, they started a potentially promising series beating dead horses...

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.31 15:51:00 - [218]
 

Edited by: Jacob Mei on 31/10/2009 15:52:40
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 31/10/2009 06:19:39
Honestly, I think it just comes down to silly writers.

Agreed. In the first few seasons there were decidedly light hearted episodes (the one where theirs the body swapping [Anderson in a monotone voice like teal'c saying he must shave his head is priceless], the episode where they go back in time every 8 hours, etc). I think around the time the replicators were introduced is when things started to get gradually darker.

Daniel Jackson seems at many points like he was meant to be one of these characters and was more pushed in the other direct as the show went on.

I would agree if it werent for one incident that occured early in the first season. When teal'c revealed he had a family and the team went to retrieve them, they had a secondary mission to capture a ghoul'd larva for study. Jackson and Carter retrieved the larva, when their Jackson remarked "their rather defenseless like this...". Carter knew what he was thinking and said if they did that they would be no better then them. Jackson agreed but as they walked off he turned and shot the larva container full of holes, essentially killing about a dozen or so defenseless children out of rage because his wife was taken as a host.

If anything Jackson was more inquisitive and didn’t view the galaxy in terms of good/evil like O’Neill did which lead to them butting heads on various subjects but that hardly would make him a pacifist.


The Ancients were maybe meant to be pacifist because sci-fi writers (especially the extreme pacifists) tend to love the idea of advanced = pacifists.

I agree. The ancients had a federation vibe to them, IE prime directive that gave them moral superiority and crap like that.



Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Hmmm ... could the ancients be a way of portraying the western industrialized world that allows the third world to roll along in misery, ruled by war lords and religious extremists because they think their sons are to good to go die in the dirt for a bunch of people who don't have lives as good as theirs?

Western world didn’t leave weapons of mass destruction laying around and say tough luck when Somalia found a thermal nuclear missile (metaphoriclly speaking). Thats what always annoyed me about the ancients, they used their so called pacifist stance to avoid having to clean up their own messes and actually went out of their way to punish ancients that thought they should.

*shrug*

I am kind of curious as to how a bunch of space bugs that could fit in a milk can managed to consume 40,000 gallons of water ... or just what good two pallets of ice is going to do in replacing that ... Did I get that figure right? Was it 40,000 gallons? Or was it liters? Either way ... that's like a **** load of water.

There are plenty of examples in nature of animals that have to eat/drink their body weight in food each day to survive. Depending on how long the bugs were on the ship its possible they could have drank that much. In regards to the ice if I recall they even said that it was just a stop gap until hopefully destiny found a planet with liquid H2O. If they act on that in the show though is another matter.

On an unrelated note I do have to admit I like how they said they couldnt dial back to earth, Destiny simply being too old for its energy reserves to be able to be fully charged anymore.





In any case in regards to SGU checking Gateworld the titles for the episodes no longer hint at dealing with having the essentals to survive on a ship so hopefully we can see them moving forward.

MaxxOmega
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2009.11.01 02:00:00 - [219]
 

This show is really one big dead end already. I'm gonna start watching tampon ads in it's place...

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.11.01 13:18:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Vak'ran
/me notices this thread is no longer about the new series :)

regardless... i only have one thing to say about SGU at the moment: one more miraculous escape out of nowhere and i'm going to stop bothering with it, close second - another ohnoes we have to get back in x time or we're going to be left behind.

Seriously, they started a potentially promising series beating dead horses...


Miraculous escapes aren't really the problem for me per se. The way they are done is just plain boring. They killed the red shirt for no real reason. Let me fiah my gunz at the thing, that clearly isn't going to be stopped by a few bullets and wasn't even a threat to me Laughing. Meaning they couldn't write suspence/threat properly, so the red shirt was used in a desperate effort to create some sense of a threat.

The problem with the "suspence" danger is, that it happens to the guys who are likely never going to come to any serious harm in the series and this time they didn't even do anything. When the episode came near to the end, the writers just pulled a change to the situation out of their asses that solved their problem. Lazy writing or bad writing, but it isn't entertaining no matter what you call it.

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2009.11.01 13:59:00 - [221]
 

When they threw out the can of bees, how did they know they weren't going to fly straight back through the gate when Young and Scott dialed back?

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.01 16:47:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: ReaperOfSly
When they threw out the can of bees, how did they know they weren't going to fly straight back through the gate when Young and Scott dialed back?


Just some thoughts:

1. They hoped that the atmosphere, which proved toxic to humans, would prove toxic to the insects as the atmosphere of the planet the insects were originally from could support human life as well.

2. They didnt think the insects could escape the container to begin with.

3. If they did escape they would be stupid enough to float infront of the forming wormhole which would obliterate them instantly.

4. Its another plothole that could have easyily been solved by them throwing the container into the forming wormhole and obliterating the insects in the process.

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.02 07:31:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
When they threw out the can of bees, how did they know they weren't going to fly straight back through the gate when Young and Scott dialed back?


Just some thoughts:

1. They hoped that the atmosphere, which proved toxic to humans, would prove toxic to the insects as the atmosphere of the planet the insects were originally from could support human life as well.

2. They didnt think the insects could escape the container to begin with.

3. If they did escape they would be stupid enough to float infront of the forming wormhole which would obliterate them instantly.

4. Its another plothole that could have easyily been solved by them throwing the container into the forming wormhole and obliterating the insects in the process.


5. They figured the massive amount of ice on the planet would intrigue the aliens and they would fly off to investigate it, allowing Young and Scott enough time to get back without worry.

Not a good or bad episode, although I did like that the hot girl with the big rack found out about Scott and Chloe. Also, the Star Wars reference was great; it even made my mom laugh. Eli's sled was pretty cool, you've got to admit.

It had a good amount of character drama, though, just as the other episodes had, which is what sets it apart in the SG world. I think that'll be the main driving force behind it, obviously copying BSG, of course. But BSG worked for most of us.

I actually do like that it's a combination of Lost, BSG, and SG. The other SGs didn't have this level of character interaction; they were more happy, friendly fun, which was good for them, but doesn't always have to be the same. I still see much potential for the series, especially given the preview for the next episode, but also much potential for fail if the writers get lazy.

Also, yes, if they rely on the easy, last minute fix like the crevasse too much, it will get stale. At least have it involve someone we could believe may actually die, i.e. not a red shirt nor a main star.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2009.11.02 08:53:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: F'nog

It had a good amount of character drama, though, just as the other episodes had, which is what sets it apart in the SG world. I think that'll be the main driving force behind it, obviously copying BSG, of course. But BSG worked for most of us.

I actually do like that it's a combination of Lost, BSG, and SG. The other SGs didn't have this level of character interaction; they were more happy, friendly fun, which was good for them, but doesn't always have to be the same. I still see much potential for the series, especially given the preview for the next episode, but also much potential for fail if the writers get lazy.

Also, yes, if they rely on the easy, last minute fix like the crevasse too much, it will get stale. At least have it involve someone we could believe may actually die, i.e. not a red shirt nor a main star.


SG1 did have a huge amount of humor and didn't feel the need to take itself too seriously. On the flip side it also had the good taste to approach their moral dilemmas, critical plot elements, etc with the appropriate level seriousness.

It had plenty of character drama/interaction (very much between Jack and Daniel). Their character depth was complex and often drove the stories alone, they just didn't feel the need to wear their entire emotional catalog on their sleeves 24/7. I agree in their later seasons they were a bit too fun and campy and the storyline also had issues causing the show to kinda fall apart.

As for bsg, it's sad SGU is considered the spawn of BSG (an insult to bsg really). In fact the only thing i think SGU has been able to properly steal from BSG has been a few camera techniques and the darker/harsher/rougher type setting.

BSG placed a huge focus on character drama, but it was driven BESIDE a great story. (The storyline wasn't just along for the ride.) Later in the series, the poorer episodes in most ppls opinions, overdone character drama and weak/rushed plot development was it's downside/black eye/whatever.

Both SG1 and BSG had a healthy balance between storyline and character drama and a good sense for story development (that's development, presenting the characters and storyline to the audience was a process). SGU just seems to throw it all out there at once and 'ok now lets see what happens to the characters'. It seems immature, elementary and just all around 'off' to me.

To use an analogy, it seems SGU wants to have the sex without the foreplay, and its those subtle details and a properly timed development that makes a show enjoyable.

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.03 17:46:00 - [225]
 

Before this thread fades away I thought this would be interesting:

Source: Gateworld.net

2.1 average household rating
2.85 million total viewers (includes Live + 7 Days DVR)
1.5 million adults ages 18-49
1.7 million ages 25-54

over the last season of Atlantis:
59 % increase ages 18-34
41 % increase 18-49
33% increase 25-54
36% in total viewers

SyFy considers this their best October ever with:
2.1 avg Ghost hunters
1.7 avg Destination Truth
1.8 avg premiere of Sanctuary

Universe is currently considered the networks second highest rated show behind Ghost Hunters (about 3 million viewers before DVR).


-------------------------------------------

My personal opinion is that SGU isnt that good but it is holding some interest. Considering its currently occupying the number 2 slot for most watched show I would find it hard to believe if the show isnt renewed for another season. Hopefully, if they are done shooting for season 1 then season 2 we will see the needed character changes.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.03 18:17:00 - [226]
 

Thread probably won't die until the show takes a break, just like bsg and atlantis.

Xen Gin
Silurian Operations
Posted - 2009.11.03 22:42:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Jacob Mei
Before this thread fades away I thought this would be interesting:

Source: Gateworld.net

2.1 average household rating
2.85 million total viewers (includes Live + 7 Days DVR)
1.5 million adults ages 18-49
1.7 million ages 25-54

over the last season of Atlantis:
59 % increase ages 18-34
41 % increase 18-49
33% increase 25-54
36% in total viewers

SyFy considers this their best October ever with:
2.1 avg Ghost hunters
1.7 avg Destination Truth
1.8 avg premiere of Sanctuary

Universe is currently considered the networks second highest rated show behind Ghost Hunters (about 3 million viewers before DVR).


-------------------------------------------

My personal opinion is that SGU isnt that good but it is holding some interest. Considering its currently occupying the number 2 slot for most watched show I would find it hard to believe if the show isnt renewed for another season. Hopefully, if they are done shooting for season 1 then season 2 we will see the needed character changes.


Well, I work on a farm where we sell three types of manure. Surprisingly our horse manure is our best rated manure, then pig manure, then sheep.

But I just can't see why I'm not selling as much manure as the next farm over!? I know they got 20 types of manure and are producing high quality manure...

So anyway, Syfy (Don't know why, but the new branding reminds me of syphilis rather than science fiction!) don't have anything really good on and still SGU is only second. Is it too early to get in a 7of9 Jeri Ryan like character to put a bounce in the ratings. Got to compete with Ghost Hunters you know!

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.11.04 00:47:00 - [228]
 

Confirming that they should have just thrown it into the event horizon after the colonel came through.

i mean, seriously. Stuff only goes one way through wormholes, as we all know.. Sooo.. Why not?

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2009.11.04 10:23:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Before this thread fades away I thought this would be interesting:

Source: Gateworld.net

2.1 average household rating
2.85 million total viewers (includes Live + 7 Days DVR)
1.5 million adults ages 18-49
1.7 million ages 25-54

over the last season of Atlantis:
59 % increase ages 18-34
41 % increase 18-49
33% increase 25-54
36% in total viewers

SyFy considers this their best October ever with:
2.1 avg Ghost hunters
1.7 avg Destination Truth
1.8 avg premiere of Sanctuary

Universe is currently considered the networks second highest rated show behind Ghost Hunters (about 3 million viewers before DVR).
-------------------------------------------

My personal opinion is that SGU isnt that good but it is holding some interest. Considering its currently occupying the number 2 slot for most watched show I would find it hard to believe if the show isnt renewed for another season. Hopefully, if they are done shooting for season 1 then season 2 we will see the needed character changes.


Well, I work on a farm where we sell three types of manure.


Laughing Couldn't agree more.

Not sure what mentally absent people watch Ghosthunters, but the fact SGU is 2nd to it isn't exactly bragging rights.

Cute how they say this is SYFY's BEST OCTOBER EVER!!!! Remember the saying 'statistics can be made to say anything'?
Remember, this is the first October under the brand Syfy Wink

"Compared to the last season of Stargate Atlantis, SGU is up 59 percent among adults 18 to 34, 41 percent among adults 18 to 49, 33 percent among adults 25 54, and up 36 percent in total viewers, the network said."-gateworld

Let's bring these statistics to light eh?

SGA s01e01 – Rating 3.2
SGA s01e02 – Rating 3.2
SGA s01e03 – Rating 2.5
SGA s01e04 – Rating 2.5
SGU s01e01 – Rating 1.7
SGU s01e02 – Rating 1.7
SGU s01e03 – Rating 1.8
SGU s01e04 – Rating 1.6

So your comparing a premier which actually had RDA show up to the end of a worn out series (but initially very successful).

If you think SGU is somehow going to leap up to a 2.5 or higher in the near future (well pretty much ever in it's life), your probably kidding yourself. It's an interesting article, but once you overcome the obvious bias and numbers game, it doesn't really tell us anything impressive.

Novantco
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.11.04 16:57:00 - [230]
 

This series needs a good kick up the arse. The last episode with the crazy swarm that drinks all your waterz was pretty entertaining, but the rest have been complete boring drivel. I miss the humour and lulz from SG1.

Sci-Fi that takes it self too seriously is an automatic fail imo.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2009.11.04 21:59:00 - [231]
 

Originally by: Novantco
This series needs a good kick up the arse. The last episode with the crazy swarm that drinks all your waterz was pretty entertaining, but the rest have been complete boring drivel. I miss the humour and lulz from SG1.

Sci-Fi that takes it self too seriously is an automatic fail imo.



That's you, Mars Attacks might be more up your alley. I for one respect the work of people who doesn't just goof it out 'cause they cannot hack it delivering an interesting plot.

Just checked some old SG-1, why, when and again why did they do away with the freezing experienced by gate travelers?

Xen Gin
Silurian Operations
Posted - 2009.11.05 00:03:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Novantco
This series needs a good kick up the arse. The last episode with the crazy swarm that drinks all your waterz was pretty entertaining, but the rest have been complete boring drivel. I miss the humour and lulz from SG1.

Sci-Fi that takes it self too seriously is an automatic fail imo.



That's you, Mars Attacks might be more up your alley. I for one respect the work of people who doesn't just goof it out 'cause they cannot hack it delivering an interesting plot.

Just checked some old SG-1, why, when and again why did they do away with the freezing experienced by gate travelers?


I don't mind serious sci-fi, it's just when it is unimaginative and badly written that, it becomes seriously stupid.

I think they said the freezing compression happened because the gate was unused and they had to tweak the Earth dialing computer.

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.05 06:15:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: F''nog on 05/11/2009 06:20:56
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Novantco
This series needs a good kick up the arse. The last episode with the crazy swarm that drinks all your waterz was pretty entertaining, but the rest have been complete boring drivel. I miss the humour and lulz from SG1.

Sci-Fi that takes it self too seriously is an automatic fail imo.



That's you, Mars Attacks might be more up your alley. I for one respect the work of people who doesn't just goof it out 'cause they cannot hack it delivering an interesting plot.

Just checked some old SG-1, why, when and again why did they do away with the freezing experienced by gate travelers?


I don't mind serious sci-fi, it's just when it is unimaginative and badly written that, it becomes seriously stupid.

I think they said the freezing compression happened because the gate was unused and they had to tweak the Earth dialing computer.


Sadly, I can answer this with surprising clarity. In the episode where the team made a wormhole through a star and nearly destroyed a planet of peaceful agriculturists, the team flew out of the wormhole violently, but less so than on SGU. Anyway, either Daniel or O'Neill asked why it had been so violent and Carter replied that since they had updated the gates with more accurate dialing info that took galactic drift and rotation into account, they had removed the freezing freezing effect since they could now make perfectly accurate holes between gates.

This is the memorable episode in which O'Neill addressed the Asgard high command, and asked if Thor was available since he was such a cool guy. Daniel briefed Hammond of Texas by saying, "It went downhill from there after Jack made a reference to Freyr's mother..."

Edit @ Alia

Yes, SG1 had a lot of character interaction, but it was a different kind than SGU's. You always, deep down, knew that barring alien mind control, O'Neill and Daniel always had each others' backs, no matter their differences or how bad the problem was.

With SGU you can't say the same thing. There are the BSG-inspired distrust and formation of separate power groups whose conflict will hopefully bring a lot of trouble and repercussions in future episodes and drive it on dramatically. And I mean serious ones, not just the, "We don't trust the military" kind that's happening now. More of Lost's fragmenting the groups completely.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2009.11.05 12:05:00 - [234]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 06/11/2009 04:50:24
I just wish they'd gone for more of an Oz approach than Lost.

How I hate the fat kid.

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.08 18:07:00 - [235]
 

Edited by: Jacob Mei on 08/11/2009 18:10:27
Edited by: Jacob Mei on 08/11/2009 18:08:00
I did some checking on a thought that occurred to me today in regards to two possible ways they can get the crew back based on existing technology revealed in past shows. Warning, geek theory approaching!

1. Sending a ship: In SGA it was established that it would take the Daedalus 18 days to travel from Earth to Atlantis in the Pegasus Galaxy, roughly a 3.5 million LY trip. This is due to the use of a single ZPM at the ships disposal.

In the first episode of SGU, it is estimated by rush based on the visual log of Destiny's route that they are several billion light years from earth.

Because the ship displayed a visual representation of the route it took, including the course alterations (the little bit we see of the map shows that the route seemed to be arcing upwards, if you put the milky way at the bottom) this gives a general direction of where the Destiny is in relation to the milky way.

What this means, at least if I am interpreting it right is that Earth can send the Daedalus to the galaxy the Destiny is currently in within 200 days to a year. This is assuming that destiny is currently 5 billion light years from earth, give or take.

This theory of course does not take into account the time it would take to actually search a galaxy for the Destiny. However because Destiny's course can be influenced by search requests, ie the crew needs water, they tell the ship and the ship finds a planet with water, a system can be worked out. When the Destiny drops out of warp, the crew looks at where the stars are positioned in relation to themselves, takes the information from the database in regards to where they are and send it back to the pursuing ship (or have someone who is an expert in interpreting that data occupy a body of a crew member on the destiny) to determine destiny's position. Doing this several times would allow the pursuing ship to anticipate where the Destiny would exit FTL next and eventually meet up with the Destiny.

2. Send Atlantis: In the final episode, it is revealed Atlantis has a drive called wormhole drive (insert lame dues ex machina comment) which allowed it to instantly travel from the edge of the Pegasus galaxy to earth in a matter of moments. However it was said that this was very experimental and likely to fail Rolling Eyes with it at best failing to occur and at worst the city exploding. Because of this its unlikely Earth would risk losing the largest ancient vessel in the galaxy just to retrieve a few hundred people.

In any case, based on current technology revealed in the franchise, SGU could end at minimum within 2-3 seasons, ending with the crew returning safely back to Earth or atleast being resuced. Either that or I found a plot hole of epic proportions.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.11.08 18:24:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Jacob Mei

1. Sending a ship: In SGA it was established that it would take the Daedalus 18 days to travel from Earth to Atlantis in the Pegasus Galaxy, roughly a 3.5 million LY trip. This is due to the use of a single ZPM at the ships disposal.

In the first episode of SGU, it is estimated by rush based on the visual log of Destiny's route that they are several billion light years from earth.



Assuming a) the Daedalus travels at 3.5m/18 ly/day, that number is 195,000 ly/day. (rounded)
assuming b) several billion = 5 billion
Assuming c) the Destiny was stopped
5 billion / 195,000 =~ 25,600 / 365 =70 years.

Care to share your math?

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2009.11.11 01:51:00 - [237]
 

Changing bodies as the latest twist, some people recognizing the new mind despite old looks at the drop of the hat and some, as it should be not picking up on it.

This is turning into crap fast. Flashes back to regular life to get an insight in their civilian life before the ship and all that, very Lost and very not sci-fi. Neutral

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2009.11.11 15:00:00 - [238]
 

What is up with this show? It's Lost already. ugh

Captain Amarrica
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2009.11.11 19:04:00 - [239]
 

You can definitely tell they are going for the BSG feel with the camera angles/setup in SGU. Caprica however looks to be more promising at least to me.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:23:00 - [240]
 

It's like this ...

Crap is King. Always has been always will be.

Why?

Because - think about it - by definition, 50% of the human race is below average intelligence. They want shows that play entirely to their emotions - since they don't have much of an intellect.

Now - this doesn't mean they are bad people. Most of them have found a job they are competent at doing - but - they just aren't all that bright. Sadly, Sci Fi has always been dumbed down to try and get some of those dumb ****s to watch. There's often some real intellect involved in the basic plot of some of these things but the writers feel they have to throw in some kind of crap to appeal to the masses out there. After all - there are no people involved in the production of quality entertainment. They are all out to sell commercial air time. They aren't producing great art - they are making money.

If Lost led to BSG which led to SGU ... and they are making money off of it. That's all they give a damn about.

SG:SG1 was better because of the tightly knit crew - out there fighting an external enemy. But reality shows are more popular. Reality shows are based entirely on interpersonal conflict. They are soap operas with real people instead of characters - though - the truth is there is a lot of acting going on in these reality shows with specific people having been hired to play specific types of characters.

The very idea that a show as moronic as Ghost "Did you hear that?" Hunters has anything but abysmal ratings tells the story.

All in all ... we are lucky we get anything remotely resembling the tiniest of intellect in our programming.

So ... I'll pretty much take what I can get.

Even if you look at things that are supposed to be really high quality TV - like "I Claudius" - the author of the novel it was based on, Robert Graves, took much of what he included from Suetonius's The Twelve Caesar's - which includes vast amounts of complete fabrication. Suetonius's approach to "history" was to throw in everything he heard and let the reader sort it out. Given the fact that it was common place for any political figure to have their character under constant, unremitting assault - OF COURSE a lot of the stuff floating about was just made up by someone's political opponents.

If you look at the History Channel - you've got UFO Hunters and Monster Quest. At least they don't have wrestling ... I sure as hell would like to know what the frakk wrestling has to do with Sci Fi ...

One of the really odd things is that some of the best shows on the History Channel are the semi documentary reality shows like Ice Road Truckers. Here, they've simply taken real people, doing real jobs - that have some inherent amount of drama (which they do hype) built in.

So ... SG:U is crap. But it's what we've got ... so I'll keep watching ... unless something better is on another channel.

Today was Veteran's Day here in the USA so The History Channel had Battle 360 - USS Enterprise on. Those are some of the best shows on TV now. High Quality computer graphics to illustrate the action and interviews with the participants. They hype them, just like they hype everything else - but it's still the best stuff on TV.

Of course - one of the best shows ever is on CMT. Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders - Making the Team 4. Here, as with those History Channel shows about truckers and loggers - you have real drama about real people. The people are there - doing what they are doing whether the cameras are on or not. For any girl trying to make an NFL Cheerleading Squad - there's quite a challenge ahead of her. AND - THEY'RE FRAKKING CHEER LEADERS!!!!! What more could you want?

Documentary television masquerading as a reality show. Ha! Ha!

You see it isn't the interpersonal conflict that is so objectionable in BSG and SG:U - it is the fact that the nature and frequency of it is utterly - obviously - contrived.



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