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Glissando Fugue
Posted - 2009.10.01 01:45:00 - [1]
 

So a bunch of my friends decided they'd join up for the Red VS Blue war. For my entire eve existence, I've focused on EWar, which is Jammers for Caldari. Unfortunately, it seems as though they've "banned" ECM. So basically, as Caldari, I'm useless.
Btw, msot of my other skills are pretty lacking. As I've said, I just recently got all my ECM skills to 4/5.

Should I swap to another race? Or train in something else... Or just leave this war entirely =P.

Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania
Posted - 2009.10.01 01:52:00 - [2]
 

You could, you know, train for tracking disruptors. They're pretty nifty, and from what I've seen so far, there isn't a lot of justification for using something as powerful as ECM. They're mostly dogfights (which is a VERY good thing). Anything removing fun from combat is frowned upon, so I'm not surprised ECM has been banned (though I dont know why RR hasn't been).

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.01 02:56:00 - [3]
 

I'd go for an assault missile caracal in your shoes. Absolute murder to any frigates you encounter.

-Liang

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2009.10.01 06:00:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 01/10/2009 06:01:05
Hint: the Caracal is epic, with either weapon system. RvB was my first time trying out the AML version and it more than lived up to its reputation.

[ 2009.09.30 20:48:58 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your group of Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile hits (Thrasher), doing 1161.7 damage.

Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
Posted - 2009.10.01 06:13:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 01/10/2009 06:01:05
Hint: the Caracal is epic, with either weapon system. RvB was my first time trying out the AML version and it more than lived up to its reputation.

[ 2009.09.30 20:48:58 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your group of Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile hits (Thrasher), doing 1161.7 damage.


errm that is a heavy missile?

and how dare they ban ecm Mad

although throw some rigor rigs on a drake and it's heavies will do some nice damage to small ships.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.01 06:51:00 - [6]
 

My alt (Tiamat Key) is focused on ECM skills too, but I've thoroughly enjoyed playing in it so far.

What other skills do you have? Caldari Frigate I'd imagine, do you have Cruiser trained yet? The Caracal is very effective (both as AML and HML) as mentioned - I fly around in a HML Caracal and let the other lads tank while I just lay in to people from a bit away.
I also fly an Osprey as people rarely expect remote shield reps in RvB (Plave hates it Laughing).
Besides those 2, the Moa is also a decent choice.

You won't get a ship as good as the Rupture / Thorax / Vexor, but you can do some decent things with the ships you have available.

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.10.01 07:08:00 - [7]
 

No ECM in R v B?

What a failure R v B is then...

KustoMKilleR
Freddy Mercury Revival Group
Posted - 2009.10.01 07:35:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Lindsay Logan
No ECM in R v B?

What a failure R v B is then...



if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your rightRolling Eyes

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.10.01 07:37:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Intigo
My alt (Tiamat Key) is focused on ECM skills too, but I've thoroughly enjoyed playing in it so far.

What other skills do you have? Caldari Frigate I'd imagine, do you have Cruiser trained yet? The Caracal is very effective (both as AML and HML) as mentioned - I fly around in a HML Caracal and let the other lads tank while I just lay in to people from a bit away.
I also fly an Osprey as people rarely expect remote shield reps in RvB (Plave hates it Laughing).
Besides those 2, the Moa is also a decent choice.

You won't get a ship as good as the Rupture / Thorax / Vexor, but you can do some decent things with the ships you have available.


Damn your Osprey!

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.10.01 08:32:00 - [10]
 

Resist temptation to join rvb... No ECM sounds awesome.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.10.01 09:27:00 - [11]
 

ECM ships do happen from time to time (or people fitting ecm drones) but it's not common and you mostly get yelled at for doing it, afaik ecm drones ok to use.

The thing is that most people try to stay in the spirit of the idea and try to keep ships small (so new players and alts aren't left out) and try to keep things even. There will ofcourse always be people who don't want to stick to the 'rules' and ideas but rather win at any cost, but as said those people mostly get yelled at.


Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2009.10.01 09:30:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: TimMc
Resist temptation to join rvb... No ECM sounds awesome.

Was thinking the same thing. PvP without that particular wet blanket would be beyond awesome.

Caldari has a lot of good frigates and cruisers to start with, so training time shouldn't be too bad.

Merlin, Kestrel, Caracal, Moa and RR Osprey are all good and work well enough even with low'ish skills.

Yalezorn
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.01 09:33:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
No ECM in R v B?

What a failure R v B is then...



if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your rightRolling Eyes


What's the point of ECM being in the game at all then? They ban it at alliance tourney's too, it's ridiculous. If you can't balance it, delete it.

Plave Okice
Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya
Yezhovshchina
Posted - 2009.10.01 10:02:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Plave Okice on 01/10/2009 12:31:32
ECM is not banned in RvB

Dedicated ECM ships are frowned upon sure, great 4v4's are ruined by one Falcon but it is not banned.


Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2009.10.01 10:45:00 - [15]
 

Plated rocket kestral,
Sniper cormorant,
Sniper moa,
Blaster moa,
Harpy,
Crow,
Raptor,
AML caracal,
HAM drake,
Buffer blaster rokh,
Raven (neut + buffer w/ cruise)

If you can fly any of those ships then you have something to bring.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.01 11:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
No ECM in R v B?

What a failure R v B is then...



if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your rightRolling Eyes


Lol

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.10.01 11:51:00 - [17]
 

What kind of four-man gang has no anti-ECM capability?

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.10.01 11:53:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Yalezorn
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
No ECM in R v B?

What a failure R v B is then...



if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your rightRolling Eyes


What's the point of ECM being in the game at all then? They ban it at alliance tourney's too, it's ridiculous. If you can't balance it, delete it.


If the goal is to have "good fights" then ECM is meh, if the goal is to win then ECM is great. Understand the subtle difference Very Happy

Mikayla Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.01 11:56:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: Yalezorn
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
No ECM in R v B?

What a failure R v B is then...



if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your rightRolling Eyes


What's the point of ECM being in the game at all then? They ban it at alliance tourney's too, it's ridiculous. If you can't balance it, delete it.


If the goal is to have "good fights" then ECM is meh, if the goal is to win then ECM is great. Understand the subtle difference Very Happy


Indeed its just like in boxing. To get good fights both boxers just have to agree they can only stand on one leg during the fight.

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.10.01 11:57:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 01/10/2009 11:58:44
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
No ECM in R v B?

What a failure R v B is then...



if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your rightRolling Eyes


Well yes. Its like playing WC2 w/ no magic all over again.

"Wah wah, ECM is so boring beacuse I am so unimaginaty as not to find a counter"

ECM is part of combat, and "banning" it makes for dull gameplay when you can not use all ships and tactics that exist.

Suffice to say, as long as R v B imposes such arbitrary rules I think its a failure and will nver even consider joining it. Smile

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:00:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
No ECM in R v B?

What a failure R v B is then...



if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your rightRolling Eyes


L2P noob

The fact that they ban an entire line of ships yet allow the other recons is just ridiculous..

Why don't they ban the domi? or ban the raven?
Banning ships is just stupid if ppl are too pathetic to get around ecm.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:19:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Intigo on 01/10/2009 12:23:01
...wow. You guys are truly incompetent. ECM is overpowered for small gang warfare (sub-10) with Frigates and Cruisers. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue what he's talking about.

It's very hard to counter ECM when you have no sensor strength and ECM takes a lot of the fun out of PvP. ECM is far overpowered compared to other forms of Electronic Warfare.

Gypsio, don't be silly, a Blackbird at range with your ships jammed while you're webbed down will completely ruin a small gang fight. You should realize this. We're all in T1 frigs & cruisers for the most part, hence why ECM is extremely overpowered.

Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Suffice to say, as long as R v B imposes such arbitrary rules I think its a failure and will nver even consider joining it. Smile


Thank you! You are more than welcome to not join. What do you propose as "ECM counters" when you are flying around in T1 Cruisers and you're webbed down 30-40km from a Blackbird jamming you?

Please, do tell me.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:22:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Gypsio III on 01/10/2009 12:23:37

Oh come on. HM Caracal, Vexor or Arbitrator can all remove a Blackbird or Falcon from the field without too much trouble. Rook is trickier, granted.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:24:00 - [24]
 

Bull, Gypsio. The Caracal is jammed the others are webbed down at range. ECM has far too big an impact on small gang warfare. This is why it is frowned upon.

Are you people truly this incompetent?

Plave Okice
Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya
Yezhovshchina
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:27:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Plave Okice on 01/10/2009 12:29:11
Shall I quote myself again?

Originally by: Plave Okice
ECM is not banned in RvB

Dedicated ECM ships are frowned upon sure, great 4v4's are ruined by one Falcon but it is not banned.




And just to be clear;

Originally by: Plave Okice
ECM is not banned in RvB

Dedicated ECM ships are frowned upon sure, great 4v4's are ruined by one Falcon but it is not banned.




See this bit;

Originally by: Plave Okice
ECM is not banned in RvB


How about;

Originally by: Plave Okice
ECM is not banned

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:30:00 - [26]
 

You still need to fix the "frowned up" typo in the original post, Plave.

Wink

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:35:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Intigo
Edited by: Intigo on 01/10/2009 12:23:01
...wow. You guys are truly incompetent. ECM is overpowered for small gang warfare (sub-10) with Frigates and Cruisers. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue what he's talking about.

It's very hard to counter ECM when you have no sensor strength and ECM takes a lot of the fun out of PvP. ECM is far overpowered compared to other forms of Electronic Warfare.

Gypsio, don't be silly, a Blackbird at range with your ships jammed while you're webbed down will completely ruin a small gang fight. You should realize this. We're all in T1 frigs & cruisers for the most part, hence why ECM is extremely overpowered.

Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Suffice to say, as long as R v B imposes such arbitrary rules I think its a failure and will nver even consider joining it. Smile


Thank you! You are more than welcome to not join. What do you propose as "ECM counters" when you are flying around in T1 Cruisers and you're webbed down 30-40km from a Blackbird jamming you?

Please, do tell me.


If this "op' status was true then why wasn't the falcon, scorp or rook nerfed more Question

Yes RvB != rest of EVE but CCP would consider small gang fights quite a bit when balancing, as thats what alot of pvp in EVE is all about..

ECM isn't overpowered, its simply inconveneient on the small scale platform, hence ppl think its "OP".


And last I checked, drones took care of blackbirds pretty well, and ecm ships are always called primary so you shldn't have been that far from it in the first place (and even if you are webbed etc. your friends shld make short work of him soon enough). Plus anything long range shld melt him pretty fast.


Luckily some1 just stated that ecm ships are indeed allowed, my faith in RvB is somewhat restored Wink

Joh Lan
MIAPICSA
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:40:00 - [28]
 

It's really refreshing to see ppl not only whine about the other guys' ecm but somewhat trying to limit it's use on their side.

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:52:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 01/10/2009 12:53:14
Originally by: Intigo
Edited by: Intigo on 01/10/2009 12:23:01
...wow. You guys are truly incompetent. ECM is overpowered for small gang warfare (sub-10) with Frigates and Cruisers. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue what he's talking about.

It's very hard to counter ECM when you have no sensor strength and ECM takes a lot of the fun out of PvP. ECM is far overpowered compared to other forms of Electronic Warfare.

Gypsio, don't be silly, a Blackbird at range with your ships jammed while you're webbed down will completely ruin a small gang fight. You should realize this. We're all in T1 frigs & cruisers for the most part, hence why ECM is extremely overpowered.

Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Suffice to say, as long as R v B imposes such arbitrary rules I think its a failure and will nver even consider joining it. Smile


Thank you! You are more than welcome to not join. What do you propose as "ECM counters" when you are flying around in T1 Cruisers and you're webbed down 30-40km from a Blackbird jamming you?

Please, do tell me.


What you always do in regular PVP in T1 ships. Its not that hard. You already got tons of counter measures. Do you actually play the game?

Drones. FOF. ECCM. ECM. Gang. To mention a few.

Oh, have you also heard of the new sensor strenght implant set? I guess not.

Rolling Eyes

And tbfh if you are webbed down and jammed you have already failed, and giving the failures more "success" with banning some elements from combat makes for lame pew pew.

Originally by: Plave Okice
ECM is not banned in RvB

Dedicated ECM ships are frowned upon sure, great 4v4's are ruined by one Falcon but it is not banned.




Glad to hear.

KustoMKilleR
Freddy Mercury Revival Group
Posted - 2009.10.01 13:34:00 - [30]
 

lol. love how i speak my mind and i get told to "L2P".

so just to set the record straight, i fly ECM ships in pvp. Rooks to be precise. i love them and think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

HOWEVER

with most of the people in RvB pvping in T1 frigs and cruisers and operating in small gangs, ecm is the biggest fun killer in the entire game. No other EWAR can completely remove someones ability to fight back.

remote sensor damps - close range or fit a sebo
tracking disruptors - gain range to reduce effects

the only way to fight back against ECM is waiting for your opponent to miss a cycle or going outside their lock range. and for the people saying "hurr...just use drones against them". most smart ecm pilots will orbit outside of the 45km drone range so how exactly will drones help?.

meh wtf do i care, think what you want. ill go back to griefing WT's in high sec.


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