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Linas IV
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:33:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Linas IV on 30/09/2009 11:34:46
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
How? Seriously, Unless it's a BS RR gang most people seem to be using T2 ships in small gangs anyway.


It will completly obsolete any T1-sub-Bs ship! (except for newbs)

And whats the point in killing a Hac or CS if its cheaper then a BS. Where is the risk vs Reward?!?


Merfio
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:35:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Merfio on 30/09/2009 11:37:26
Originally by: Shade Millith
Originally by: Merfio
Originally by: Shade Millith
I hope to hell this is a case of 'Magic crystal ball', and not an actual change.

Because having T2 be fully insurable would be stupid


Where is it fully insurable? 50% is far from full. This will get other players the chance to get into more pvp. Not only the ones who have been sitting on their moon gold for a long time. Yeah i can see why you dont like this change....


ANY insurance for T2 is stupid

If you wanna fly HAC's you have to pay for it. Too expensive? Fly a BC



Says the man who get T2 reimbursment since years. Cmon wake up and stop lobbying.

In 0.0 alliances roaming is t2 only since a long time. Dont know how that should change it. You got t1 frig ? youre uselesss now and will be after Dominion so plz stop crying.

Mikayla Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:43:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER
why is this such a bad idea?

if you own a moon goo rich alliance, have tons of isk and T2 BPO's you can basically field your T2 fleet for free



Confirming that minerals you mine are free.....

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:43:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Shade Millith on 30/09/2009 11:53:24
Originally by: Merfio
Edited by: Merfio on 30/09/2009 11:37:26
Originally by: Shade Millith
Originally by: Merfio
Originally by: Shade Millith
I hope to hell this is a case of 'Magic crystal ball', and not an actual change.

Because having T2 be fully insurable would be stupid


Where is it fully insurable? 50% is far from full. This will get other players the chance to get into more pvp. Not only the ones who have been sitting on their moon gold for a long time. Yeah i can see why you dont like this change....


ANY insurance for T2 is stupid

If you wanna fly HAC's you have to pay for it. Too expensive? Fly a BC



Says the man who get T2 reimbursment since years. Cmon wake up and stop lobbying.

In 0.0 alliances roaming is t2 only since a long time. Dont know how that should change it. You got t1 frig ? youre uselesss now and will be after Dominion so plz stop crying.


I'd like to know where the 130 mil is for the last eagle I lost in a HAC gang is, and the 130 mil for the last cerb I lost is, and the 20 mil for the last crow I lost is, and the 20 odd mil for the last manticore I took on a suicide bombing op.

Funny that, I provide all my OWN ships. I've NEVER received anything from any alliance I've been in for T2 losses. Which is, funnily enough, one of thereasons I fly BC's primarily.

MIND SCR4MBLER
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:58:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER
why is this such a bad idea?

if you own a moon goo rich alliance, have tons of isk and T2 BPO's you can basically field your T2 fleet for free



Confirming that minerals you mine are free.....


well up until recently we all know ferrogel was for some ppls.....

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.09.30 12:34:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Merfio

Says the man who get T2 reimbursment since years. Cmon wake up and stop lobbying.

In 0.0 alliances roaming is t2 only since a long time. Dont know how that should change it. You got t1 frig ? youre uselesss now and will be after Dominion so plz stop crying.


I dont get reimbursement for t2. I fly ONLY t2 (well, except BS). And i do not want to see any insurance on them. Actually id love if CCP could remove insurance even from t1.

Harotak
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2009.09.30 12:53:00 - [37]
 

In other news, I made about 30m isk buying and self destructing hyperions last night. Kinda funy when people sell them below the payout-minus-premium cost.

Gespenst Jager
Pumpkin Scissors
DarkSide.
Posted - 2009.09.30 13:04:00 - [38]
 

Yay! t2 insuranse!!! Very Happy Small alliances which do not have compensation programs will be very grateful. Less pve, more pvp!

Koyama Ise
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.30 13:18:00 - [39]
 

To everyone emo raging the **** out.

The increase is 100% of the previous amount I believe. The Ishtar returns 50,469,992.00 isk on insurance, subtracting the 15,140,997.60 isk you payed for the insurance coverage of 12 weeks, that totals to 35,328,994.40 isk.

The current mediam selling price of Ishtars in empire is 130,654,999.00 isk. The gap after insurance is: 95,326,004.60 isk.

I would like to stress THIS IS MINOR. THIS IS NOT A BIG CHANGE. THIS IS NOT GAME BREAKING. Stop opposing change and sit the **** down, and shut the **** up!

Rudolf Miller
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.30 13:19:00 - [40]
 

NOT SUPPORTED

Zealot costs 125 mil
Insurance costs 15 mil
Total Bill: 140 mil

Insurance Payout: 50.5 mil

Isk loss 89.5 mil

Problem?

Okonaa
Posted - 2009.09.30 13:25:00 - [41]
 

its great, because

- might increase the market value of t2 ships (prices for ships go slightly up)
- more t2 ships in pvp instead of t1

you still have to pay alot of money to insure the ship and you still lose alot of money when losing your t2 ship.

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.30 13:31:00 - [42]
 

Still big losses but may be to give people more encouragement for those small roaming gangs that are hoped to be more prevalent after Dominion.

Kyvon
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.09.30 13:54:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Shade Millith
I'd like to know where the 130 mil is for the last eagle I lost in a HAC gang is, and the 130 mil for the last cerb I lost is, and the 20 mil for the last crow I lost is, and the 20 odd mil for the last manticore I took on a suicide bombing op.

Funny that, I provide all my OWN ships. I've NEVER received anything from any alliance I've been in for T2 losses. Which is, funnily enough, one of thereasons I fly BC's primarily.


Join a better Alliance?
Even my CORP covers ship losses in Corp/Alliance operations...

Merfio
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.09.30 14:06:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Merfio

Says the man who get T2 reimbursment since years. Cmon wake up and stop lobbying.

In 0.0 alliances roaming is t2 only since a long time. Dont know how that should change it. You got t1 frig ? youre uselesss now and will be after Dominion so plz stop crying.


I dont get reimbursement for t2. I fly ONLY t2 (well, except BS). And i do not want to see any insurance on them. Actually id love if CCP could remove insurance even from t1.


Plz try to see the bigger picture not your own perosnal view. More noobs in HACs means more fun for us c/d?

Rolfos
Posted - 2009.09.30 14:19:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: houndbite
CCP feels its a good idea who are you to step in and tell them what to do.


Isn't it a man's job to question his government?

lol my government feels it's a good idea to commit genocide. Who am I to step in and tell them what to do?

A man chooses, a slave obeys.

True story.


Rip Striker
Posted - 2009.09.30 14:28:00 - [46]
 

As someone else said, remove all insurances. Without insurance:

a) T2 ships will become more attractive.
b) Pilots will be more interested in briging the right ship to a specific engagement.
c) Cap ships will be used moderately.
d) Some players will quit EVE and go back to WoW.


BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.09.30 14:35:00 - [47]
 

LOL

look at all the whines!

All this over a slight change to t2 insurance on sisi..

NEWSFLASH

A) Nothing has been announced, stop pretending EVE is dying!

B) WTF is this a problem for? 50% insurance? Looks like all the rich whiners who want to keep their advantage over casual players are going to have a heart attack form such a SHOCKING change Rolling Eyes

Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.30 15:34:00 - [48]
 

Heh i see carebears moaning. But honestly i like the change and most of my alliance mates like it.
With the corp and aliance reimbusements i will have to spend less time carebearing for isk and more pvping so it is good and needed change.
And while people whine for t1 cruizers they are supposed to be **** compared to t2,and while t1 is good for newbies,i hate to see zealot with t1 guns or ishtar with t1 drones...

At all the dominion is coming with more and more promising i am really eager for the release

teji
Ars ex Discordia
Here Be Dragons
Posted - 2009.09.30 15:37:00 - [49]
 

Raise the insurance on T2. Sounds good.

Ariel Dawn
Posted - 2009.09.30 15:40:00 - [50]
 

You people complain about anything and everything, don't you?

Slightly more affordable T2 encourages people to use the ships. More fun stuff for PvP! Keep in mind you guys don't work at CCP, chances are that there are likely other changes that will provide attractive ISK sinks in the works.

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.09.30 15:45:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER
why is this such a bad idea?

if you own a moon goo rich alliance, have tons of isk and T2 BPO's you can basically field your T2 fleet for free



Confirming that minerals you mine are free.....


well up until recently we all know ferrogel was for some ppls.....



Dude, for the 100th time on these forums,

stuff that you could sell but choose to use it instead is lost money.
Just like buying stuff.

Choosing stuff over profits = paying money to buy stuff

Rooky2001
Black-Wing
Posted - 2009.09.30 16:05:00 - [52]
 

really bad decision, CCP...

Remove all insurences higher than Tech1... That will be the right way, nothing else.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.30 16:18:00 - [53]
 

Worst case scenario:

T2 ships end up being reduced in price due to increased availability of moon minerals, Ishtars for example drop in price to 50-55m each and Platinum insurance for the Ishtar on SISI covers 52m, ending with a T2 HAC that is fully insurable.

RE-FRIGGIN-TARDED.

With current prices HACs aren't fully insurable with respect to what is available on SISI at the moment. What if ~52m ISK is the target price CCP wants HACs to be at and they're going to juggle material requirements and material availability to adjust the delivered price to this target?

I just looked at the Astarte's insurance: 34.5m to insure and payout is 115.198m ISK. I think that CCP is clearly looking at restructuring the cost of ships to fit them into a theoretical framework for hull costs.

Interestingly, the Legion's Platinum insurance costs 5.52m and pays out 18.4m on SISI.

The best way to handle this is to simply remove all insurance from the game, or at least remove all insurance from all characters over six months old. Insurance is bad, get rid of it.

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2009.09.30 16:49:00 - [54]
 

Insurance is complicated, it is probably the best ISK sink in the game if done correctly as it is though it most likely pays out more than it takes in. Please consider inflation in eve is utterly rampant when you take into effect that mission rewards and bounties poor ISK into the economy every day. Increasing the insurance on T2 ships should theoretically increases the amount of ISK that is removed from the economy. Sadly this will not be the case. But do consider that purchasing a ship in now way removes ISK from the economy other than the small amount in taxes mostly it just moves ISK around.

I personally feel there should be no payout at all for an uninsured ship and that the percentage of return is seriously messed up especially when you consider that it is for 12 weeks who the hell has ships that last 12 weeks. The ships that I have that have lasted that long have not been insured so insurance has actually dumped more ISK into the economy for me than it has removed.

Basic Insurance pays our 10x what you put in.
Platinium Insurance pays out 3 1/3x what you put in.

What needs to be fixed is the risk of insurance, theoretically it should scale with the lose of insured ships. Meaning if someone have never lost a ship or it has been a long time they should get cheap insurance. But if you lose 10 a week you it should hardly be worth insuring a ship. Yes this does have consiquences for gameplay, but right now insurance is illogical.

Ironically best way to probably solve this would be to figure out a way to turn over the actual management of insurance to players brokers who split a degree of the costs with concord, meaning they will have charge appropriately to make isk.

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.09.30 16:55:00 - [55]
 

I think you can make the case that T2 ships are a bit too expensive right now.

But flying (and losing) T2 ships in PvP should be more costly than flying and losing T1 ships in PvP. Making T1 ships be insurable while T2 really aren't is a good way to accomplish this.

You gain increased performance for T2 ships to compesnate for the extra cost. If they cost the same, after insurance, there wouldn't really be a reason to fly T1.

Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
Posted - 2009.09.30 17:32:00 - [56]
 

CCP, heard about the rising T2 insurance too.

Even if minerals are added to build cost, DO NOT DO THIS.

(a) isk faucet
(b) if the values posted on scrapheap are accurate, T1 and T2 cost to lose will be close enough to make it worth flying t2 always if you have the skills.
(c) insurable non-T1? Just no on principal.

If you do this I will enjoy flying tons of cheap zealots, but, for the general good of the game experience, please don't.

Sgt Napalm
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.09.30 17:40:00 - [57]
 

I like this idea.

It'll bring the cost of flying a decent ship into PvP down. Which means, I can spend more time PvPing and less time PvEing.

Must be nice to be rich and afford a 170Mil Astarte.


CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2009.09.30 17:53:00 - [58]
 

The short answer is we are not deliberately changing insurance, it is a symptom of the material changes to Tech II ships and you all witnessing a work in progress change (as is always the case with the test server) so you only have a small piece of the jigsaw to go rabid with speculation on so far.

The final insurance values in the next update will be different than the precise values they are today on Tranquillity but not drastically different (a few %).

If you want to start a general debate on insurance and death penalties, it needs to be in another forum and another thread. The important message to take home is the second sentence above.

A blog will be out later this week to talk about in more detail about the tech II material changes and the revenue streams of null sec as previously mentioned in the Alliance tournament interviews or you can come talk to me at fanfest if you are with us this year :).

Count MonteCarlo
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.30 19:07:00 - [59]
 

I would just like to post saying that all of you whiners sound pretty stupid, seriously

AchurAbAbY
Caldari
Universalis Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2009.09.30 19:15:00 - [60]
 

I think you guys are forgetting a basic fact here. On sisi they want you guys out shooting and killing, so ya, they raised the insurance payouts so yall will keep doing what they want you to, testing there mods. Secondly, stop whining about everyone being able to fly t-2, sorry you wont be a small percentage of ppl currently able to field a t-2 ship, sounds like youll have to work at being better at pvp. As for the ppl complaining about pirates being able to fly t-2, maybe yall are blind, but most the pirates i see are already in them, so its a moot point.


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