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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
Posted - 2009.09.30 04:17:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Mahke on 30/09/2009 04:20:47
Edited by: Mahke on 30/09/2009 04:17:09
People say that gallente are weak because the t2 cruisers (except the ishtar, which is a niche love-it-or-be-kinda-meh-about-it kinda thing) are overall def. the weakest, and the tier 2 (not T2, the myrm) battlecruiser is slightly weaker than the other three (which are all well balanced).

People, especially the generally higher sp/wealth types that frequent the boards, really really like flying these ship classes, for the most part.

Because of that, people often consider gallente weak despite having AWESOME t2 frigates and t1 cruisers, and the second best battleship line. The race isn't weak; its just that its effectiveness hole (and every race has one, except arguably caldari) is really annoyingly situated.

edit:

tl;dr version:

Originally by: abrasive soap
because of myrmidon

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2009.09.30 04:25:00 - [92]
 

They have the Best Battleships i swear to you Shocked

Tzepesh
Posted - 2009.09.30 07:41:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa


Megathron - There's a reason you don't see armageddons and apocalypses flying around in blobs -- because Megathrons put them to shame.

Dominix - lol

Hyperion - Not quite sure where to put this ship, it seems like a confused Megathron.





haha that was so funny!! Laughing

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:24:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Mahke
Edited by: Mahke on 30/09/2009 04:20:47
Edited by: Mahke on 30/09/2009 04:17:09
gallente ... the second best battleship line.


Wait, what?

/me points at the raven, scorp and rokh..

Hint: 1 uber bs does not make up for one mediocre bs and one lame bs.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:33:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 30/09/2009 08:35:11
Ah yes, more proof that buying lots of GTCs does not make you good at PvP. Really, how do you get so many things wrong in one post?

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Enyo - Tons of DPS out of a tech 2 frig, consider it the Deimos' baby sister.



The Enyo is trash. Two mids = laughably bad, and you don't even get an extra damage bonus over the Harpy like Gallente ships normally do. Even in the blaster gank role, the Harpy and Ishkur are simply much better ships.

Quote:
Vexor - Simply the most awesome of the tier 3 cruisers, this ship is like a miniature dominix without utility midslots


Hint: Vexor is not tier-3. It's tier-2.


But it's still a bad ship anyway. T1 cruisers are obsolete now that the nano Hurricane gives the same speed and agility (IOW, the reason to take a cruiser) with far better firepower and tank, and all for a modest cost increase once fittings and insurance are counted.

And even if you don't want to fly a Hurricane, the Arbitrator is better. I hear utility midslots are awesome, especially with a TD bonus.


Quote:
Thorax - Glass cannon. High DPS, not always primaried, can fit buffer to survive.


As said above: nano Hurricane makes it obsolete. And "not always primaried" is a joke, a Thorax is an excellent choice of primary (at least for your anti-support ships), as its paper tank means you can almost instantly remove ~500 dps from the hostile gang.


Quote:
Brutix - Rad ship. Can shield tank or buffer armor tank, and deal insane amounts of DPS in a short amount of time (AND it's insurable!)


Too bad the Harbinger out-ganks it in pretty much every realistic PvP scenario.

Quote:
Myrmidon - Sweet, but was overnerfed. Can tank and gank at the same time. Both Gallente battlecruisers are great solo ships


Too bad its gank and tank are weaker than the Harbinger and Drake, and its solo ability is pitiful compared to the nano Hurricane.

Quote:
Deimos - Glass cannon. Dies at the start of a fight, but only after you've removed someone from their ship first.


Correction: pitiful range = Die-most gets killed before ever getting a shot off.

Quote:
Vigilant - The end all be all of gank cruisers, this ship sports more DPS and has great solo capability when properly fitted. Problem is it is a gank magnet, so be careful ;3


Assuming the current SiSi changes make it to TQ.


Quote:
Oneiros - Excellent support ship and patches holes in the Gallente tracking problems. Great ship to have in any fleet.


Bring a Guardian.

Quote:
Megathron - There's a reason you don't see armageddons and apocalypses flying around in blobs -- because Megathrons put them to shame.


Err, just what alternate EVE are you playing where nobody uses Armageddons and Apocalypses? Have you been so oblivious that you've missed the constant flood of "NERF AMARR" threads?
Dominix - lol

Quote:
Vindicator - **** from any distance. One on one this ship should beat just about anything, even a neut domi.


Assuming the SiSi changes make it to TQ, and even then, it still can't beat every possible ship. Torp CNR + Vindicator = dead Vindicator.

Quote:
Kronos - Amazing slow but has extremely nice DPS.


If by "nice", you mean "less than a CNR, for more than double the cost", then yes, it does.

Quote:
Sin - Great ship when fitted correctly, but needs help in the tank department.


It's a black ops. If you're tanking more than a minor amount of dps, you're doing it wrong.

Quote:
Thanatos - Drone rage >:O


Correction: worst carrier in the game. Weak tank = primaried carrier = dead carrier. I bet you also fit DCUs in your high slots on your Thanatos?

Quote:
Nyx - The best supercapital support ship, period. Outrageous DPS, excellent support bonuses, versatile slot layout allows for tank, gank and support.



See above. Wyvern or Aeon >>>>>> Nyx. It does look cool though.

Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:47:00 - [96]
 

My view of the current problems with the Gallente:

- Pulse lasers are just too good compared to the other short-range guns.
- Rails... have problems. They use quite a bit of cap, they use ammo, they track poorly (about the same as artillery, _very_ minor advantage to rails), and their damage isn't anything special.
- Needing to get really close to use blasters plus rather clumsy ships which usually armor tank is a very suboptimal combination. (As an aside, the penalties for armor rigs are the worst by far.) Cruisers and frigates work reasonably well, battlecruisers work poorly, battleships very poorly.
- Armor repair bonuses are utter crap compared to resist bonuses. At max skills, you get 37.5% increase to your local reps with the repping bonus. With resist bonus, you get 33.3% increase to your local reps PLUS 33.3% increase to any remote reps PLUS 33.3% increase to your armor EHP.
- Damps are... how should I say it... _very_ situational at the moment.
- Some of their ships just suck. Helios, Eos and Eris, anyone? Hyperion, Astarte and Deimos get a (dis)honorable mention here, too. We'll see what happens to Moros.

Gallente do have some good ships too, certainly, but at the moment I would recommend training other races if you're looking for a good lineup.

Kovorix
Matari Exodus
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:48:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Kovorix on 30/09/2009 09:08:48

Yes, Merin, we all know by now that siig is the forums idiot, no need to point it out at every opportunity Neutral

Still, +1 for Gallente being the best solo and small gang pvp option. Active tank bonuses, enough mids for lots of tackle, the flexibility of drones, and high burst damage of blasters makes them ideal for just about every solo engagement I strive to find.

Pertaining your massive boner over the nanocane: it, like so many of your "policies", fails to take into account something essential. When you fly it around, people see a tier 2 battlecruiser on scan, not a cruiser. Therefore, it absolutely does NOT in ANY WAY outclass all t1 cruisers. (not that I think flying cruisers is fun or worthwhile anyhow)

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.09.30 09:36:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 30/09/2009 09:38:17
Originally by: Kovorix
Pertaining your massive boner over the nanocane: it, like so many of your "policies", fails to take into account something essential. When you fly it around, people see a tier 2 battlecruiser on scan, not a cruiser. Therefore, it absolutely does NOT in ANY WAY outclass all t1 cruisers. (not that I think flying cruisers is fun or worthwhile anyhow)



In my experience, most potential targets tend to fall into one of four categories:


1) Paranoid carebears who run away at the first sight of ANY ship on scan (or even in local).


2) Oblivious people who don't notice the threat until it appears on their overview.


3) Confident people who will engage both ships.


4) Encounters (such as jumping through a gate and running into a hostile, or sending a single frigate in to tackle while your Hurricane(s) wait on the other side of the gate) where there is no warning or ability to run.



It's just not that common to run into someone who is only willing to fight the cruiser but not the BC, paying enough attention to know the difference, and NOT paying enough attention to check your character info in local and notice that you're way too old to be flying a T1 cruiser and therefore deliberately baiting them into making a mistake. What little you do lose will be more than offset by the fact that you are flying a massively superior ship, and therefore can successfully kill a lot more targets.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.09.30 09:40:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/09/2009 09:44:46
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/09/2009 09:43:28
Let's look at some of the arguments here.

First, cruiser != Tier 2 BC. While the agility / speed are largely comparable when the BC is nanofit, and the price difference is not that significant (it's basically ~15 mil, or 80-100% in relative terms), people do react differently to a Tier 2 BC on scanner compared to a cruiser. Many people (particularly other cruiser pilots and HAC pilots although taking them would be rather tricky in a Vexor) will easily go after a T1 cruiser where they'll run like hell from a Tier 2 BC.

While the nanocane IS fun to fly, it really is more like a oversized (and slightly slower w/out snakes) HAC. Non-blaster BCs will generally eat it for lunch and spit it out. The only BCs it can compete against are trimarked Hurricanes (trimarks are not a no-brainer without penalities to fit, but some people don't get that bit) and Brutixes/blastermyrms (if you have the time to slowly grind them down). Everything else forces you to run, and run quick.

What makes it nice for solo is the gtfo capability and the ability to preety much run down and slaughter HACs.

Now we've gotten over this:
- The Myrmidon is a nice ship. Failure to fit one does not count. If tank fit, it will kill any BC in gets it hands on at close range, since with exile it'll tank any other BC, and most of them without exile either. If gank fit, again, 625 DPS at 24km with just a bit of drone travel time lag is not a joke either and generally unexpected to boot ;) You could fit it with a myriad of non-worthless fits, really.

Underestimating a Myrmidon is a really bad idea.

- The Vexor is a preety damn good cruiser. Easily better then the Thorax, really. If you don't like combat cruisers in general, well, OK, but the Vexor is really, really good.

- The Ishkur, while it is stupidly expensive like all AFs, is one of the two-three good AFs. It also dwarfs the Enyo at whatever the Enyo does; there is no reason why you'd ever fly a Enyo, bar price, and you're not flying AFs because they're cost-effective.

- The Ishtar is a good ship, as far as HACs go.

- The Arazu is awesome. It is not really a solo killing ship, but the potential it adds to gangs with long range tackle and long range scrambling is excellent. Unless you think range is not important in EVE.

- The Dominix is awesome.

- The Taranis is OK, as far as combat ceptors go. Going to get horribly slaughtered by any AFs it did not get horribly slaughtered by post AF AB boost, but heh. Fun little ship.

It's blasters which is the problem far more then anything else.

Kovorix
Matari Exodus
Posted - 2009.09.30 10:04:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Kovorix on 30/09/2009 10:06:19
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 30/09/2009 09:38:17
Originally by: Kovorix
Pertaining your massive boner over the nanocane: it, like so many of your "policies", fails to take into account something essential. When you fly it around, people see a tier 2 battlecruiser on scan, not a cruiser. Therefore, it absolutely does NOT in ANY WAY outclass all t1 cruisers. (not that I think flying cruisers is fun or worthwhile anyhow)



In my experience, most potential targets tend to fall into one of four categories:


1) Paranoid carebears who run away at the first sight of ANY ship on scan (or even in local).


2) Oblivious people who don't notice the threat until it appears on their overview.


3) Confident people who will engage both ships.


4) Encounters (such as jumping through a gate and running into a hostile, or sending a single frigate in to tackle while your Hurricane(s) wait on the other side of the gate) where there is no warning or ability to run.



It's just not that common to run into someone who is only willing to fight the cruiser but not the BC, paying enough attention to know the difference, and NOT paying enough attention to check your character info in local and notice that you're way too old to be flying a T1 cruiser and therefore deliberately baiting them into making a mistake. What little you do lose will be more than offset by the fact that you are flying a massively superior ship, and therefore can successfully kill a lot more targets.


First of all, when I talk about solo pvp, I'm talking about consensual fights, because I find those to be the most rewarding and fun.

That said, one of the coolest things you can do with a t1 cruiser, and this has been demonstrated often by various skilled pilots, is to tackle and out gank/tank an overconfident nano HAC/recon. I'd say that said HAC pilot would absolutely not let a battlecruiser close to tackle range, and probably it won't engage a battlecruiser at all.

This is, however, speculation based on lots of videos I've seen; I personally don't fly cruisers much at all. In my experience though, the following statement is the most important rule of eve pvp:

The perception of the abilities and role of the ship you fly has at least as much influence on your success as the actual abilities and role of your ship.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.09.30 10:08:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/09/2009 10:10:59
Originally by: Kovorix

The perception of the abilities and role of the ship you fly has at least as much influence on your success as the actual abilities and role of your ship.



Truth.

Unless you're baiting, a cloaker, or using a alt to probe (and even then to a extent if people are attentive to their scanner), the perceived capabilities of your ship have a major outcome on the success you will reap with it.

For instance, back during the nano age, I'd kill generally more HACs then now - simply because nearly all HACs were confident engaging a slow, bumbling BC in their "awesome" (or so people thought) nano HAC. Right now, most of them just run from the same BC, because the perceived balance between the two ships changed.


Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2009.09.30 10:13:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Soulita on 30/09/2009 10:15:14

Threads like these are flavour of the half year threads.
People were screaming gallente being overpowered not so long ago.

Anytime CCP does balancing, some things naturaly get better in comparison to others.

In the past we had caldari being not so good, minmatar being not so good, amarr being not so good - and now its maybe gallente being not so good.

Who knows, in a year gallente may rock the boat again, and amarr are back to fail... meh

That said, a gallente boat that realy needs a serious boost since some time now is the diemost. That ship has been crap for a bit too long now.
And maybe the enyo, looks nice, but has very limited use.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.09.30 10:32:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 30/09/2009 10:15:14

Threads like these are flavour of the half year threads.
People were screaming gallente being overpowered not so long ago.

Anytime CCP does balancing, some things naturaly get better in comparison to others


I am aware of that and have trained the other races. HAMdrakes, apocs and nanocanes are nice.

Mikayla Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:02:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 30/09/2009 10:15:14

Threads like these are flavour of the half year threads.
People were screaming gallente being overpowered not so long ago.



About 3 years ago.

Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:24:00 - [105]
 

Can I ask why people think the Thanatos is one of the worst carriers? Whenever I go to my corp/alliance blobs I see LOADS of thannys... which would tell me they are quite good???? Otherwise why would people field them?

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:44:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: NightmareX on 30/09/2009 11:44:33
Originally by: Hull Blaster
Can I ask why people think the Thanatos is one of the worst carriers? Whenever I go to my corp/alliance blobs I see LOADS of thannys... which would tell me they are quite good???? Otherwise why would people field them?

It's simple.

There are several reasons why they are calling a Thanatos, Blaster Mega or other Blaster ships for crap.

1. They have never used the ships in real PVP against good targets.

2. They have **** poor skills in flying the ships.

3. Their experience is really really horrible with the ships.

4. They are just some sad carebears who just want their OMGWTFSUPERDUPERPWN machine back.

In our alliance, we use alot of Thanatos'es. And the reason is simple. It's because the carrier is pretty good.

Soeniss Delazur
Blue Republic
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:59:00 - [107]
 

Local armor repping is just not suited for gangs, you always want RR or logistics to keep you alive. It shines for solo pvp but the latter has just become so obsolescent. So all the ships having bonuses in that area are just penalized in comparison with the ships gaining resistance bonus.

Additionally, the web nerf implies that any blasterboat needs to fit a scrambler to keep a chance to hold a target within blaster range. So forget about the 24km point and forget about catching things above 9 km. Actually most cookie cutter setups on frigs/cruiser hulls don't have the cpu for a t2 scrambler btw so the range is even shorter in reality, bar overload.

So what's happening now is that you MWD towards your target to get into range, if your target is Minmatar you can't catch up, if it's not then you get within range eventually with 1/3 your cap, then they scramble you in return so you can't dictate range anymore and you die cause blasters do 0 damage beyond where your nose is..





Exitar Stormscion
Posted - 2009.09.30 13:00:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Because you have exactly four ships which are even worth undocking:


1) Taranis. Overrated as hell, and mediocre for doing the job of an interceptor (tackling).


2) Ishkur. Nice, but way too expensive to justify flying.


3) Ishtar. Solid nano HAC, no real complaints here.


4) Dominix. Awesome solo and small gang battleship.



The carrier is the worst carrier, the dread is getting nerfed to lose its only real advantage (drone bonus no longer applies outside of siege mode), and all the rest of the ships are outperformed by either ships from other races, or the Dominix. This especially applies to blasters, there are few, if any, situations where a blaster boat has any real advantage over an alternative ship from another race.


And no, the Hyperion is not the best solo battleship. In fact, it doesn't even come close.


forum warrior whiners ftw :D
Galante are realy strong you just like to think you play with underpowered race ... make you cover your personal mistakes when you pop.
Blame it on sombody else sindrome.

Tom Peeping
Posted - 2009.09.30 14:36:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Chack'Nul
Because our ships can't track equally sized ships orbiting a few hundreds m/s even in our optimal range.


as opposed to all the other races who can?

Actually the Gal race are the best at this of all races. The real reason people say gal aren't as good anymore is that PVP has become a more midrange game in the last change or two and Gallente are best at close in. When the battle is close in, gallente are just as good as they ever were. They are still the best at this.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.09.30 14:53:00 - [110]
 

Domi's are absolute beasts in a fleet. I use and see them all the time in fleet engagements. They can support a massive armour tank, are relatively cheap, knock out all sorts of stuff with a neut rack, have lots of meds so sensor boosters and ECCM can be fitted. Ok, they are not dps hero's but they are a solid, well balanced ship.

Cruisers: lets talk about Gallente cruisers. Thorax, 1600mm plate, mwd, point, blasters, drones, pew pew pew pew omfgbaaaaaaaa!! There is no end of fun to be had with Thorax and Vexors. Great for 1v1, good in a fleet too.

Blaster-boats: the reason why you hear so many players saying "blaster suck" is because they fit them in EFT, see the massive DPS and go all stary eyed. They then take them out into the field and realise that they are not in range or the tracking is out paced. The fact is that to make up for the high dps, blasters are specialist weapons - you need to correctly tackle and disable your target before bringing them to bear.

Also, I heard they are going to nerf Minmatar anyway. Rolling Eyes

Joh Lan
MIAPICSA
Posted - 2009.09.30 15:11:00 - [111]
 

I think gall ships are just not blob friendly.
Simply things (almost) die by the time you mwd there or drones get there.
And considering how many ppl blob it's reasonable to have so many of them say that it sux.

It just has different uses where it shines, even if those uses get less and less common.

Spectre3353
Gallente
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2009.09.30 16:52:00 - [112]
 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the nano nerf yet. The changes to scramblers seriously fubar'ed a lot of Gallente blaster boats, especially my favorite, the Taranis. Small/medium projectiles, lasers and missiles can all still easily hit for all or a portion of their damage from 7km to 10km away while blasters are pretty much helpless, even with good skills and Null loaded. This means that virtually any other race can kite and kill most Gallente ships without even getting touched. Even if you do managed to get someone in range, gimpy 50-60% webs can no longer hold your opponent in place for your blasters to do their job.

Blasters are still plenty viable in situations where you start very close to your opponent from the start (stations/gates/warp to 0) and/or when you're in a gang where you're unlikely to get kited but they have been seriously gimped in terms of being able to handle a solo fight. You know there are some issues when you can have dual webs on your blaster battlecruiser and still not manage to keep stuff in range to hit. I would love if they made some slight adjustments to improve the viability of blasters sometime in the near future but I think we are going to have to wait until projectiles are done getting their love.

Beltantis Torrence
Wolfsbrigade
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2009.09.30 18:19:00 - [113]
 

Gallente is fine. Taranis, ishkur, thorax, brutix, myrm, ishtar, dominix, mega, arazu, all very good in their own right. There are some gangs where I'd prefer a geddon over a domi and some gangs where I'd rather have a pilgrim over an arazu and some gangs where I'd take an eagle over a deimos but that doesn't mean the race sucks.

Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.09.30 19:26:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: kessah
Thorax


Get a nano-Hurricane.

Quote:
Vexor


Get a nano-Hurricane.


Nah the Thorax and Vexor are great cruisers and very different from a nano cane. I like to fly a Rupture in pvp so should I also just use a nano cane?....

Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.30 19:35:00 - [115]
 

Although the change of the morosīs drone bonus suck, it does not gimp the ship much tbh. In a fleet fight, you will most likely be in siege anyway, and then you have the damage bonus.

Thanatos is one of the best carriers there is. The ability to use both remote shield and armor logistics is really overlooked, and drone bonus is actually not useless at all..

Currently, all moms suck compared to the standard carriers, but post Dominion the nyx will be pretty awesome.

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2009.09.30 19:49:00 - [116]
 

I have to agree with Merin about the list of Gallente best in show. Those are the ships Gallente have that outperform everything else for a particular niche.

The only part I disagree with him about is the Arazu. The Arazu can scram from a little less than 20KM. By comparison the Rapier without faction kit can dual web and point out to 28KM if it overheats the point and isn't sitting on faction gear. When both are nano fit the Arazu is a little slower than the rapier. But the Arazu's one scram is possibly better than the Rapier's double web and leaves two slots more open for additional tank or ewar. Remember that target painters suck too unless you're in a fleet of torp users. As a Minmatar pilot I look at the Arazu with envy.

On the other hand the curse will shut off someone's MWD, AB, active tank, and possibly their guns. It can't warp cloaked and the effect take 10-15s though so its not exactly the same niche.

Its hard to complain about Gallente being really underpowered though because they have a load of ships that are acceptable if your Gallente specced and can't fly all races.

-T1 frigs
Incursus can be interesting. Tristan is an acceptable tackler. But all are are pretty much outperformed by the Rifter. Its t1 frigates so who cares?

-Assualt frigs
Ishkur is best in show. Enyo = get an Ishkur.

-Interceptors
The Taranis is a great pvp ceptor. Is it the best? IDK. I've seen crusaders kill them. I've seen Crows kill Crusaders. Interceptor combat is twitchy and pilot skill dependent. Give it best in show anyway because its a nice ship.

The ares is solid. The Stiletto is a better tackler.

-EAF
The Stiletto is better than the Keres at what its supposed to do. Damps suck. All EAF kinda suck.

-Covert Ops
Stealth bombers and Covops are all created pretty equally.

-Destroyers
All destroyers are slugs before the awesome light of the thrasher. Right until anything cruiser size or larger decides to instapop the whole lot of them.

-Dictors
There are Sabres, and there are Not-Sabres. Sabres are for being win in pvp. Not-Sabres are for being cheap bubblers that cost half as much as Sabres when they explode. Gallente posses a Not-Sabre.

-T1 cruisers
The Vexor and Thorax are top combat cruisers. Too bad the Nanocane is better in almost every way at what they do.

-Recons
The Arazu is good if you just worry about tackle. The Lach doesn't do much more than the Arazu and can't warp cloaked.

-Hacs
The Ishtar has a unique ability and is therefore best in show for that niche.

The Diemost is outperformed by the Nanocane at being zippy DPS. Is outperformed by the Brutix as an armor brawler (The brutix is outperformed by other bc.) and is inferior to the all powerful Zealot as a sniper HAC. In short it sucks. This doesn't cripple Gallente much because only Ammar has 2 truly usefulll HACs.

-Logistics
The Guardian beats the snot out of the Onieros because it can cap transfer at range. The Onieros is still an acceptable armor logistics.

-Hictors
Shield Hictors are favored in 0.0. Armored ones are a little more valuable in lowsec. For the most part all Hictors are interchangeable. The only question shield tankers don't have to ask is "Do I have a repper on my Phobos or am I relying on RR?"

-Battlecruisers
The Myrmidon loses the tank'n'gank competition to the drake. It's slower than what Minmatar has to offer. Its got a gimped drone bay compared to the Ishtar. It is useful on the field for its utility somewhat and if you don;t have acess to one of the other options.

The Brutix loses the tank'n'gank battle with the exact same ship. Is slower than the same ships. At least its better than the Diemost which is kind of a booby prize.

Gallente BC suffer from the stupid active armor rep bonus. Good pilots mostly ignore it and armor or shield buffer. In normal combat situations Gallente BC preform like they have only one bonus.

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.09.30 20:20:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 30/09/2009 20:34:38
Gallente doesn't suck, there just seem to be a lot of whiners that play Gallente. This seems typical of any race/class which is billed as the 'bigggest damage' in a game. People seem to think the biggest damage means they should roll over opposition and aren't satsified when that doesn't happen.

Many Gallente ships have been absurdly overpowered in various situations: nos domis, old myrmidons, old eos, damp recons, moros.

Gallente pilots as a whole seem to have difficulty accepting that they were overpowered at all, and generally claim the new adjusted forms are too weak.(In fairness, in the case of the damp recons, I think they have a point) I think much of the "Gallente sucks!" view is simply comparing current gallente to ridiculous old gallente, rather than comparing gallente to other ships.

The gallente ship line up is not bad at all.

Ishkur: solid Tech 1 frig
Ishkur: tied for best AF with Jaguar.
Taranis: best combat interceptor
Helios: only covops that can fit a drone! Go win those covops 1 on 1 duels! ;)
Thorax and Vexor: two superb T1 cruisers. In the top 3. It's silly to complain that a nano cane is better, as a nano cane is 'better' than all cruisers. That's an issue with the nano hurricane, not the gallente cruisers.
Ishtar: Great HAC.
Brutix: best T1 BC. Manages to not suck, unlike most other T1 BC. Complaining it gets outganked by a hurricane or harbinger is stupid, because Tier1 BC < Tier2 BC. (Until CCP brings the Tier 1 BC's up a notch which I hope they do)
Myrmidon: Great T2 BC.
Dominix: most versatile BS in the game. Absolutely incredible ship.
Megathron: reliable fleet BS. Used to be one of the best solo BS.

Now, with the changes to AC's and artillery, it does look to me like blasters and railguns will be left in the dust a bit, and may need some examination. However, this is a weapon system problem, and not a gallente problem. Caldari use hybrids as well. Their other issue is that active tanking is simply not as good as buffer tanking, so their rep bonus often goes to waste. CCP should make active tanking a bit better, IMO, or at least adjust the fitting requirements so it's not so ridiculously hard to fit an active tank compared to a buffered setup (I'm looking at you, perpetually PG starved caldari ships!)

The gallente lineup, like all lineups, has some weak ships.

The eris is terrible, but then, so is very dictor that isn't the Sabre.
Catalyst isn't as good as the thrasher, but then the trasher is in a league of its own.
Eos - not so hot, but at least it's not a Nighthawk. The Astarte does not suck.

Overall I'd say the Gallente are second only to the minmatar in terms of small ship solo ability, and their BS are better than the (current) Minmatar BS. Hardly the worst place in the world to be.

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2009.09.30 20:32:00 - [118]
 

-Command Ships
Information warfare links are horrible. Additional speed, shields, or armor is useful to every ship in the fleet. Better ewar only helps ewar pilots. Unless you're flying a Black Ops gang only every fourth or fifth ship is likely to be an ewarboat. That is an ewar heavy fleet. Or a very bizarre black ops fleet that is lugging an Eos around.

Additional sensor strength is useful for everyone. Its useful for everyone when a specific class of enemy ship turns up and that ship type suffered a recent debilitating nerf.

Minus the gang mods which probably end up being fit cross racially Gallente command ships are outperformed by battleships. The active armor repair bonus still sucks on a mid size t2 hull. The ships have to close to scram/web range negating whatever speed advantage they had. The speed advantage wasn't large to begin with. Ect.

The Astarte and Eos are bested by all other command ships except the nighthawk and a good lineup of battleships for almost all conceivable roles except when you take your Eos along with the Black Ops gang.

By comparison the Sleipnir with an active shield bonus isn't all bad because #1 it is fast enough to reduce inbound dps by staying away from the thickest part of the brawl. #2 an active shield burst tank can deal with much more inbound dps than an active armor tank. The only downside is it caps out quicker. #3 a Sleipnir fits a battleship sized tank with its X-Large shield booster. You can't do that with armor reps on a battlecruiser.

-Battleships
The Domi is awesome. Using drones for acceptably high dps (low compared to other full gank bs) leaves all the onboard slots for utility. Its a strong ship.

The Megathron is ok. Probably the Armageddon is slightly better but at least it isn't a Tempest. And in small gang situations the Megathron may even be more useful than the Armageddon.

The Hyperion has the wonderful active rep bonus again. As a battleship this makes it nice in small gang situations but all active tanks' defenses can be rapidly overwhelmed and its size makes avoiding those situations difficult. People forget that they have the choice to only put 7 guns on the thing and fit the all important heavy neut. The niche of solo battleship is small and questionable. The Hyerion isn't going to fill it better than something like a nuet Domi. The best thing I ever did with it is use the skills I had acquired training for the Machariel. Taken a Hyperion, shield tanked it, fit 3x damage mods and 2 nanofibers, that heavy neut, and ran around doing 900dps at 1.3 klicks. Fun Times.

-Battleships +
I don't know enough about caps to comment but Gallente seem to be OK. Marauders aren't used for pvp. Black Op BS serve best as mobile jump bridges that never go to the fight.

Gallente have half a dozen ships worth flying over everything else for specific roles. They have some acceptable ships. They have some crap. All races have this situation. Its a symptom of balance, the smallish numbers of combat roles that actually exist in pvp, and racial styles.

If I was going to list the Minmatar ships that stand out as best in show I would end up with something like this:
Stiletto
Vagabond
~Sleipnir
Claymore
Hurricane
~Jaguar
~Rapier
Sabre

Where '~' entries are questionable.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.30 20:40:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Spectre3353
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the nano nerf yet. The changes to scramblers seriously fubar'ed a lot of Gallente blaster boats, especially my favorite, the Taranis. Small/medium projectiles, lasers and missiles can all still easily hit for all or a portion of their damage from 7km to 10km away while blasters are pretty much helpless, even with good skills and Null loaded. This means that virtually any other race can kite and kill most Gallente ships without even getting touched. Even if you do managed to get someone in range, gimpy 50-60% webs can no longer hold your opponent in place for your blasters to do their job.


I mentioned it on page one, the issues with medium blasters are simplar, with the drawbacks that the ships are slower. Then again this is mostly a problem of the to weak web, not actualy the blaster or the blaster ship itself.

Originally by: Spectre3353

Blasters are still plenty viable in situations where you start very close to your opponent from the start (stations/gates/warp to 0) and/or when you're in a gang where you're unlikely to get kited but they have been seriously gimped in terms of being able to handle a solo fight. You know there are some issues when you can have dual webs on your blaster battlecruiser and still not manage to keep stuff in range to hit. I would love if they made some slight adjustments to improve the viability of blasters sometime in the near future but I think we are going to have to wait until projectiles are done getting their love.


Basicly my point to. I want back the ship that was a very solid solo choice and could handle allmost anything in 1o1s to a point where the battle was won/lost by playerskill(kitting, range, neuts, EW, and moving the ships clever to put your oponent in a bad positon).

Again I blame the to weak web that fails to help the blaster ship to stay in range and do full damage in close fights(where you not have your target tackled to full stop).

Sebastien LaForge
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.09.30 20:48:00 - [120]
 

Found out yesterday you can't overheat Damps.


Why does CCP hate everything non-ECM ewar-wise?


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