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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:33:00 - [31]
 

No, I didn't need either Crystals or Blue Pill last time. And that wasn't the triple-TD armour-tanking lolRaven, either. Razz

Davinel Lulinvega
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:37:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Tzepesh
Edited by: Tzepesh on 29/09/2009 14:29:18
Embarassed
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Tzepesh
Large Blasters are fine just becose in optimal your target is already scramed and webed. There is no tier 2 BS who can beat mega in solo combat. Period.


In an arranged 1v1, my Raven would beat your Mega every time. I'd even have a choice of ways of beating the predictable, one-dimensional Mega.

Unfortunately, the absence of TQ BS 1v1s renders this of little consequence for realistic gameplay.



Using blue pill and crystals?? RIGHT!!!

and no its not true. You can do fair combat on sisi too if your goal is to see the truth and not living in your dream world.


This may come as a huge surprise to you, but there is more to flying internet spaceships than right click orbit at 500 f1-f8. Unless you start within web range the raven has already won.

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:41:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: TimMc
Reasons we complain:

  1. We used to be the best

  2. We cannot track similar ships at optimal range. We have to fight in falloff like minmatar.

  3. My taranis can no longer outrun warriors and do the damage of some cruisers.

  4. Repping bonuses are becoming less and less useful as solo becomes more and more rare.

  5. Our sniper HAC is the ishtar which is stuck with its drones.

  6. Our tech 2 ships largely suck. Enyo, Keres, Lachesis, Oneros, Deimos, Sin

  7. Our dread is getting nerfed so no longer will be a station camping monster. Our carrier is one of the worse.



Mostly this. The Moros nerf is ******ed, and should either apply to all dreadnoughts, or none of them.
Quote:
Quote:
Vexor


Get a nano-Hurricane.

I disagree with this, as I find saying "get the next bigger ship" generally doesn't provide much of an end to the argument, as it can be used from the frigate-line upwards really. The Vexor is very capable T1 cruiser, I find it the most effective personally, on par with the Ruppy.

Generally, the issues with Gallente are more issues with blasters, they can't track for **** within their own optimal range, and because of that range, you stay in fall-off mostly anyway. The 'paper high' dps is almost never achieved, leaving you on par with Amarr damage wise. They're very do-or-die, or, incase of the Deimos, die-or-die. CCP however has yet to release an expansion which hasn't nerfed Gallente, directly or indirectly too.

Why is the Thanatos considered the worst Carrier though? I've never flown capitals and am pretty ignorant as far as they're concerned, I heard they used to be Uber when they were first introduced, what happened to eliminate that?

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:44:00 - [34]
 

People complaining that they can no longer station hug in dock range with a Moros make me rage.

Ariel Dawn
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:49:00 - [35]
 

Using Blasters is more or less self tackling, while Projectiles and Lasers have the range to play keep away. This also helps out with preventing neutralization and taking out hostile drones since they have a travel time.

Amarr's Conflag (short range) has more range than Gallente's Null.

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:49:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
People complaining that they can no longer station hug in dock range with a Moros make me rage.

Oh god, i actually have to agree with a HYDRA pilot hereShocked.

Yeah it makes me ROFL hard at those who thinks a Moros is a station camper. Let me say one thing to you. It's not a damn station camper. It's a POS killer.

When the 3 other dreads can't kill smaller ships on station any good, then the Moros shouldn't be that either.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:52:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Why is the Thanatos considered the worst Carrier though? I've never flown capitals and am pretty ignorant as far as they're concerned, I heard they used to be Uber when they were first introduced, what happened to eliminate that?



1. Nidhoggur - dual RR bonus, slot layout allows shield tank and CPRs to fuel RR.
2. Thanatos - like Nidhoggur, but without rep amount bonus.
3. Chimera - shield RR only, good for repping POS and other shield carriers.
4. Archon - limited to armour, short on midslots.

*stirs pot*

Davinel Lulinvega
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:54:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Suitonia
People complaining that they can no longer station hug in dock range with a Moros make me rage.

Oh god, i actually have to agree with a HYDRA pilot hereShocked.

Yeah it makes me ROFL hard at those who thinks a Moros is a station camper. Let me say one thing to you. It's not a damn station camper. It's a POS killer.

When the 3 other dreads can't kill smaller ships on station any good, then the Moros shouldn't be that either.
HYRDRA WILL PROVAIL

Arbiter Reborn
Posted - 2009.09.29 15:09:00 - [39]
 

admittedly you have the worst carrier atm, the nxy will be better with bombers. a damage bonus on carriers is rediculously irrelevent.

gallente are solo small gang ships, great for lowsec, the arazu and lachesis are great examples of this as they are next to useless in large gang situtations, comparing cuisers to bc's is a bit moot as you could say a nanocane is better than any cruiser. also gallente have two very good bc's and very versatile bc's, yes blasters have issues but there supposed to be a bit glass cannon like by desighn.

there a great race learn when and where to use them and you shall prosper

Davinel Lulinvega
Posted - 2009.09.29 15:11:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: arbiter reborn
a nanocane is better than any cruiser
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what merin was trying to say.

Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.29 15:21:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: TimMc

  • We cannot track similar ships at optimal range. We have to fight in falloff like minmatar.




  • I keep hearing this same argument over and over again, but somehow it just doesn't sound very believable.

    If you run numbers on bs level for an absolute worst case scenario (neutrons, 320sig typhoon, 100% transversal (blaster ship completely immobile), no ship tracking bonus, no tracking mods, no web), sure, you end up with the damage peak at few km past optimal and around 80% of your max dps potential, with maybe 2/3 damage at the optimal. For comparisons, a megapulse boat shooting that same typhoon at his 15km optimal also loses 5-10% damage.

    But that really is the worst case scenario. In a somewhat more realistic 1vs1 scenario both have webs, the blaster ship is trying to minimize transversal and the relative speed difference is something like 1/10 of what it was in above case. Translating into very close to maximum dps between 1km and 6km. In most, arguably more common, cases though, both ships will be tackled by multiple other ships and tracking becomes a total non-issue.

    In this light it frankly sounds like most of the "boost blaster tracking" crowd are just parroting something they heard elsewhere, quite possibly coming from the crowd that think you should still be able to obliterate cruisers or even frigates with bs sized blasters.

    The Djego
    Minmatar
    Hellequin Inc.
    Posted - 2009.09.29 15:23:00 - [42]
     

    Originally by: TimMc
    Reasons we complain:

    1. We used to be the best

    2. We cannot track similar ships at optimal range. We have to fight in falloff like minmatar.

    3. My taranis can no longer outrun warriors and do the damage of some cruisers.

    4. Repping bonuses are becoming less and less useful as solo becomes more and more rare.

    5. Our sniper HAC is the ishtar which is stuck with its drones.

    6. Our tech 2 ships largely suck. Enyo, Keres, Lachesis, Oneros, Deimos, Sin

    7. Our dread is getting nerfed so no longer will be a station camping monster. Our carrier is one of the worse.




    I agree here.

    My biggest issue since QR is point 2 in my eyes, since this was needet to get a chance to win fights vs well skilled and flown ships in solo PVP(like taking on a Rupture with a Rax or a geddon\raven with a Mega). You basicly needed any single point of your dps on the spot to win with around 30-40% structure. You realy needet the strong web to hold your target in place and gank it properly before you run out of HP.

    Shure you can beat the ordinary joe now just fine because he usely failfits or makes tons of piloting errors(the main reason why blaster ships look awsome in PVP vids), but this donīt makes the blastership a realy superior choice for soloing or gank gameplay(like it was once) and fails preaty rapidly against deacend pilotes(where it is mostly to little to late nowerdays).

    Not realy shure about why they nerfed the Moros, since you can still do this with any carrier(with more neuts, RR and more spare drones). It is not a nerf to stationcamping but to shake off tacklers after siege if you need to cyno out(what is sad, since it was one of the advantages over other dreads). Or did we had a huge stationcamping problem in eve with the moros dread(serious enlighten me I didnīt see any, given that quite some people do it in carriers)? Confused

    Originally by: Mashie Saldana
    Originally by: wallenbergaren
    I keep hearing we're the worst race blah blah

    Gallente pilots are complaining because they can no longer take on three enemies with the same sized ships and win. Wink


    Any chance you can bring me a 2006 edition of a blastership(preferable mega), if you get back to 2009?

    Chack'Nul
    Gallente
    GK inc.
    Pandemic Legion
    Posted - 2009.09.29 15:38:00 - [43]
     

    Edited by: Chack''Nul on 29/09/2009 15:49:04
    Large neutron blasters with null get 12km optimal at all level 5, what do the equivilant lasers get with scorch, with likely better damage and tracking?

    Also we have a serious lack of sniper HAC, the Deimos lacks the optimal range bonus or tracking bonus all the other sniper HACs get, and yes, the Ishtar can be a fantastic sniper, but enjoy not being able to move around the battlefield without leavng behind a 3mil set of drones.

    xXxChristianGirlxXX
    BOUNTY. HUNTER. MINING. EXSPLORATION. CORPORATION.
    HYDRA RELOADED
    Posted - 2009.09.29 15:42:00 - [44]
     

    Scorch on Megapulse II is 45km.

    Chack'Nul
    Gallente
    GK inc.
    Pandemic Legion
    Posted - 2009.09.29 15:51:00 - [45]
     

    Originally by: xXxChristianGirlxXX
    Scorch on Megapulse II is 45km.



    Damn that just makes me mad.

    kessah
    Blood Blind
    Posted - 2009.09.29 15:55:00 - [46]
     

    Originally by: Merin Ryskin
    Originally by: kessah
    Megathron


    Get an Armageddon or torp Raven.

    Quote:
    Arazu


    Unfortunately a very situational ship, and probably the least-useful of the recons. As long as damps remain over-nerfed, it's a pretty underwhelming ship.

    Quote:
    Myrmidon


    Completely outclassed by the Hurricane, Drake, and Harbinger.

    Quote:
    Thorax


    Get a nano-Hurricane.

    Quote:
    Vexor


    Get a nano-Hurricane.

    Quote:
    The Hyperion may not be the best solo battleship, but imho it comes in 2nd. Dominix holding the top spot.


    Not even close. I'd even take a Megathron over it, since the Megathron can at least fit a neut to maybe have a chance against smaller ships. But overall, it's just a poor ship. It's completely outclassed by the Dominix as a solo ship (even if you absolutely must fly a solo battleship), and completely outclassed by the Armageddon/Raven/Abaddon in gangs. I can't really see any reason to ever undock in one, unless it's to self-destruct it and collect the insurance money.


    Respectfully. I dont agree with what your saying.

    Megathrons are very different to Geddons and torp Ravens. You would use them for different reasons. Considering they will 9 times out of 10 use an MWD, which in its own right makes them advantageous in other aspects. Ravens are fine, if your in a gang.

    Your generalizing heavily, throwing solutions to perceived ship weaknesses through under valued specializations that each ship has. Speed, dmg output, cost etc etc

    Arazu's are excellent counters to your nano solutions, which imho i think are stupid setups in nearly all ships. Nano anything around me and you will either be killed or simply force me to jump / dock. That could be considered successful if you just want me to leave you be ofc.

    Myrmidon is completely underrated and because of that people generally dont know how to fit them properly. They have some very unique abilities.

    Nano hurricane instead of a thorax? Why dont you just use a titan instead of that? you cant counter my argument for why the Thorax is good by using a completely different race and ship size. The thorax is in a different field entirely than the Hurricane.

    lol why cant the Hyperion fit a Heavy neut? have you watched Darkness's Dark Perspective video series? The Hyperion is an awesome solo pvp ship.

    Mikayla Grey
    Gallente
    Posted - 2009.09.29 16:55:00 - [47]
     

    Edited by: Mikayla Grey on 29/09/2009 16:56:14
    Originally by: Tzepesh

    Ishtar is a great sniper if you want to use it like a sniper. With bouncers II, 2 omnidirectionals and drone scop chip and sentry damage rigs you can deal 433dps at 90+42km.



    It sucks as a sniper as in most sniper hac gangs you want to always be moving. If you need to run you just left your weapons behind. If you want a sit still at a gate sniper you might as well have a domi as it does even more dps (can even fit decent guns in addition to the drones) and costs about 10 times less.

    Sure it can work solo, but solo pvp is just about target selection and getting a point.

    Neuronai
    Posted - 2009.09.29 17:22:00 - [48]
     

    Edited by: Neuronai on 29/09/2009 17:24:48
    Originally by: Merin Ryskin
    Originally by: kessah
    Megathron


    Get an Armageddon or torp Raven.

    Quote:
    Arazu


    Unfortunately a very situational ship, and probably the least-useful of the recons. As long as damps remain over-nerfed, it's a pretty underwhelming ship.

    Quote:
    Myrmidon


    Completely outclassed by the Hurricane, Drake, and Harbinger.

    Quote:
    Thorax


    Get a nano-Hurricane.

    Quote:
    Vexor


    Get a nano-Hurricane.

    Quote:
    The Hyperion may not be the best solo battleship, but imho it comes in 2nd. Dominix holding the top spot.


    Not even close. I'd even take a Megathron over it, since the Megathron can at least fit a neut to maybe have a chance against smaller ships. But overall, it's just a poor ship. It's completely outclassed by the Dominix as a solo ship (even if you absolutely must fly a solo battleship), and completely outclassed by the Armageddon/Raven/Abaddon in gangs. I can't really see any reason to ever undock in one, unless it's to self-destruct it and collect the insurance money.


    1) Why are you comparing cruisers to "nano hurricanes"? The same could be said about other race's cruisers. For cruiser class the Vexor and Thorax are excellent ships.

    2) Although I find some of the ships you suggested (Armageddon, Harbinger, Hurricane) easier to use in fleet PvP, the Megathron and Myrmidon excell in small gang/solo PvP which yes, does occur in the game...Albeit not as much as blob gangs where I'm sure I would take a laser boat over a blaster/drone boat.

    Don't have much to say about the Arazu, never flown one. But yeah, the Myrmidon sure as hell ain't outclassed by the other Tier 2 BC's. Far from it in fact.

    Sun Clausewitz
    Posted - 2009.09.29 17:33:00 - [49]
     

    Gallente is great, try Faildari...

    Rely on Missles and there ROFL flight time delay
    Rely on those Shield Tanking RR groups... oh wait, there aren't any
    And look at their massive Drone bays... yeah, none of those either.



    Linnth
    Amarr
    Darkill Corp
    Posted - 2009.09.29 17:35:00 - [50]
     

    Originally by: Merin Ryskin
    Originally by: kessah
    Megathron


    Get an Armageddon or torp Raven.

    Quote:
    Arazu


    Unfortunately a very situational ship, and probably the least-useful of the recons. As long as damps remain over-nerfed, it's a pretty underwhelming ship.

    Quote:
    Myrmidon


    Completely outclassed by the Hurricane, Drake, and Harbinger.

    Quote:
    Thorax


    Get a nano-Hurricane.

    Quote:
    Vexor


    Get a nano-Hurricane.

    Quote:
    The Hyperion may not be the best solo battleship, but imho it comes in 2nd. Dominix holding the top spot.


    Not even close. I'd even take a Megathron over it, since the Megathron can at least fit a neut to maybe have a chance against smaller ships. But overall, it's just a poor ship. It's completely outclassed by the Dominix as a solo ship (even if you absolutely must fly a solo battleship), and completely outclassed by the Armageddon/Raven/Abaddon in gangs. I can't really see any reason to ever undock in one, unless it's to self-destruct it and collect the insurance money.



    Just confirming that this person is trying to remove flavor from Eve Online.

    Sidus Isaacs
    Gallente
    Posted - 2009.09.29 17:36:00 - [51]
     

    Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 29/09/2009 17:43:47
    Originally by: Spectre3353
    Gallente is fine.

    P.S. Merin, saying the Myrm is outclassed by the Drake/Harb/Cane makes me sad. Myrm is an great ship.


    Well, my Drake kills myrms easy as pie :)

    Edit: I want to point out the lol argument about "see this, vid, its shows its perfectly fine!" is absurd. A vid might be fun to watch, and a pilot doing an ok job, but its no argument at all about ship quality.

    James Lyrus
    Lyrus Associates
    The Star Fraction
    Posted - 2009.09.29 18:07:00 - [52]
     

    Originally by: wallenbergaren
    I keep hearing we're the worst race blah blah

    Why so?
    Is it all because of the fact hybrids have issues? Because a lot of the ships are quite nice imo

    We get the best ceptor, very strong selection of BSes, very good carrier, great HAC, etc. The blasterboats suffer a bit from blasters being [email protected]§ĢĐ@ed but a Brutix or a Thorax can be really awesome when they get into the right position. There's no real sniper BS but who says every race should do everything? We get the most awesome solo PvP BS instead (hype).

    Gallente are by no means worse than Minmatar and Caldari have some issues too

    So why the hate?


    Because once upon a time Gallente were mercilessly overpowered. There are many Gallente pilots who remember that time nostalgically, because flying overpowered ships helps hide the fact that they're not very good pilots.

    Raimo
    Genos Occidere
    HYDRA RELOADED
    Posted - 2009.09.29 18:14:00 - [53]
     

    Originally by: James Lyrus


    Because once upon a time Gallente were mercilessly overpowered. There are many Gallente pilots who remember that time nostalgically, because flying overpowered ships helps hide the fact that they're not very good pilots.


    I'm flying gallente and still getting kills, do I get a cookie?

    (Buff Deimos! :P )

    Seriously Bored
    Minmatar
    Posted - 2009.09.29 18:18:00 - [54]
     

    Edited by: Seriously Bored on 29/09/2009 18:18:18
    Originally by: TheMahdi
    I'm beginning to see a pattern with whiners.

    For example, all I see is:
    Blasters suck.
    Artys suck.
    Gallente scuk.
    Minmatar suck.
    And plenty of Caldari suck.
    Missiles suck.

    The only thing I haven't heard someone whine about is Amarr.


    This person got the closest to the true reason. People say Gallente suck because Gallente is not Amarr. Wink Anything not FoTM sucks.™

    Guillame Herschel
    Gallente
    NME1
    Posted - 2009.09.29 18:29:00 - [55]
     

    Because they're French and the French are very oral.

    Borasatar
    Posted - 2009.09.29 18:34:00 - [56]
     

    It's because people only want to min-max to find the best and feel like people laugh at them behind their back if they aren't in the FOTM ship. Get a ship, get a small gang, go have fun.

    VanNostrum
    Posted - 2009.09.29 18:43:00 - [57]
     

    Pfff show me one dreadnaught that could do what Moros could outside of siege mode!

    Moros could act like a gargantuan battleship with stupidly high dps with it's drones outside of siege that no other dread could do

    the Moros fix is just

    other than that gallente sucking is news to me
    I think the 5th playable race in the future will suck, boost it now already

    xXxChristianGirlxXX
    BOUNTY. HUNTER. MINING. EXSPLORATION. CORPORATION.
    HYDRA RELOADED
    Posted - 2009.09.29 18:52:00 - [58]
     

    Originally by: Chack'Nul
    Originally by: xXxChristianGirlxXX
    Scorch on Megapulse II is 45km.



    Damn that just makes me mad.


    Yeah, Scorch is horribly overpowered (3x the optimal of AN Multifrequency). If null did the same, Neutron Blaster Cannon II optimal would be 27km. Which of course, would be completely game breaking.

    Manu Hermanus
    FaDoyToy
    Posted - 2009.09.29 19:04:00 - [59]
     

    Originally by: xXxChristianGirlxXX
    Originally by: Chack'Nul
    Originally by: xXxChristianGirlxXX
    Scorch on Megapulse II is 45km.



    Damn that just makes me mad.


    Yeah, Scorch is horribly overpowered (3x the optimal of AN Multifrequency). If null did the same, Neutron Blaster Cannon II optimal would be 27km. Which of course, would be completely game breaking.


    or like 13.5km?

    although tbh 27km null would hardly be over powered compaired to 45km scorch Mad

    Guillame Herschel
    Gallente
    NME1
    Posted - 2009.09.29 19:15:00 - [60]
     

    Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
    Gallente is great, try Faildari...

    Rely on Missles and there ROFL flight time delay
    Rely on those Shield Tanking RR groups... oh wait, there aren't any
    And look at their massive Drone bays... yeah, none of those either.


    But you have FALCON.


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