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rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
Posted - 2009.09.28 07:14:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Rivercuomo
Hey, quantity over quality worked in WWII!


Sherman tanks were garbage compared to a Tiger or a Panzer, but 4 or 5 of them against a panzer or Tiger didn't usually end well for the Germans.

Zerg rush ftl

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2009.09.28 07:19:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: HankMurphy on 28/09/2009 07:19:59
all arguments for/against aside, it IS a start in the right direction.

Originally by: rValdez5987
Originally by: Rivercuomo
Hey, quantity over quality worked in WWII!


Sherman tanks were garbage compared to a Tiger or a Panzer


paTTon: lol more like panzy tanks

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.09.28 07:47:00 - [33]
 

What those of you outside of the US don't understand, is that the skool system here is trash and has been since the start of the progressive era.

We have a centrally controlled system that takes the power out of the hands of the parents, and puts the decisions into the hands of some politician thousands of miles away.

Amerika, excuse me, America, is too big for that.

The American school system is also modeled against the Prussian system. Remember the Prussian system? Where is Prussia now? But they did churn out a lot of good mindless soldiers in the meantime, didn't they? This modeling after the Prussian system of creating mindless state-worshiping bots out of children is the reason why we call the first year "Kindergarten". (This is related to the reason why foot soldiers are called "infantry").

Clues dawning on anybody yet?

So we have a country of idiots brought to you by this school system.

Those of us in the know will expect that expanding the existing indoctrination system will simply cost more and simply not work, as the standing problems are not addressed.

When they found out that leeches were not curing everything, did they simply put on more leeches?

In the meantime, I wonder what all that hopey-changey love Obama thing the schools are pushing on the kids will stand up now? Kids don't invest as much ego in a concept or following as adults do. It's hard to convince an adult that any system they supported is really crap (that goes for the so-called conservatives AND the so-called liberals). But all kids will know is that their day is longer, and their summer is shorter, and there is a reason why kids always hate school too. Not only is the indoctrination against the innate independence of the young mind (limited only by being young), but the rote-memory systemic teaching is also quite boring too. They hate school for a reason, but now the man who they are told is their lord and savior is about to ram more of it down their throats if he gets his way.


Ethidium Bromide
Amarr
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.28 08:39:00 - [34]
 

the school system is starting to be crappy everywhere nowadays.

do you want to know why?

easy:
****ty schools, pupils get used to NOT think on their own, pupils grow up and become voters who do NOT think on their own, media feeds them "ZE TRUTH!" and you get millions and billions of sheep in human form you can guide around as you wish because they don't think outside the "want food, want shiny car, want funny tv" box!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.09.28 08:39:00 - [35]
 


Adults go to work 8++ hours a day 5++ days a week for 48 weeks a year, most adults actually WORK significantly more than 2000 hours a year (ok, ok, some of them don't actually work, but rather "just sit there", but that's another issue).

So what if kids would go to school 8 hours a day for 5 days a week and another 4 hours Saturdays for 34 weeks a year ?
That's a bit under 1500 hours a year even with the saturdays (and far less without them), and not all of it is a big deal.

And about the whole "no time to hang with friends"... I mean, I have no idea how you guys have your schools going, but to me, back during my school days, actual class hours WERE time spent with friends (well, except the time you had tests, that doesn't count).
Yeah, sure, it's not the movies not is it playing in the park or playing computer games, but it IS hanging out with friends... heck, it was a big deal to which school you enrolled in grades 1, 5 and 9 so you could keep in touch with your friends, and then have class-shuffling so most of the old classmates that went to the same school could stick together and so on. Plus, you had 10 minutes every 50 minutes (and 20 minutes once in the middle, the "long" period) to see the rest which didn't go in the same class or even a different school nearby (we even got out of our school and into their school, sure, it's 5-10 out of 20 minutes wasted walking, but still)... then you had the walk home (another 15-30 minutes plus whatever "pitstops" you picked)... and seriously, roughly 3 months free during summer plus roughly 1 month during winter, plus 2 weeks near Easter... that's more than enough vacation time (heck, we actually got BORED during vacations and couldn't wait to get back to school).

Yeah, we LOVED going to school, because all our friends were there, if you can believe that.
Our parents mostly picked elementary schools that had the kids of friends and colleagues in 1st grade, and in the 5th grade, the kids actually had a part in the choice of school for the first time (there was a test to see if you qualify for the school, by the way), with 9th grade being almost always the kid's choice entirely (and again, entrance exams).

If kids in the USA hate school so much, it's not a problem with the school schedule (how long and at what hours), it's a problem with how people pick a school and classmates (or better said, the inability to do so).

red righthand
Posted - 2009.09.28 09:13:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Ethidium Bromide
the school system is starting to be crappy everywhere nowadays.

do you want to know why?

easy:
****ty schools, pupils get used to NOT think on their own, pupils grow up and become voters who do NOT think on their own, media feeds them "ZE TRUTH!" and you get millions and billions of sheep in human form you can guide around as you wish because they don't think outside the "want food, want shiny car, want funny tv" box!


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd87z_george-carlin-education-and-the-eli_extreme


Ethidium Bromide
Amarr
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.28 09:23:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Ethidium Bromide on 28/09/2009 09:26:09

Originally by: red righthand
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd87z_george-carlin-education-and-the-eli_extreme



omg is that man serious? i love him!

silly person
Posted - 2009.09.28 12:52:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Emil Erlenmeyer
Originally by: silly person
Seriously, the problem with American school is that the teachers can't beat the students. I would have paid a lot more attention if I knew I was going to get a ruler slapped across the knuckles for the slightest infraction.
Dude, have you seen the baby boomers? They got the ruler and a year ago they broke the world economy.

Screw the baby boomers, bunch of goddamn hippies. Go back further.

Emil Erlenmeyer
Posted - 2009.09.28 12:58:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: silly person
Screw the baby boomers, bunch of goddamn hippies. Go back further.
Well, it wasn't like they got hit less the further back you go, more likely the opposite so what's your point?

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.09.28 13:55:00 - [40]
 

More education is a good thing, especially with the excessively long summer holidays. However it should probably be more of a state run and executed thing, rather than the federal government intervening as always.

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.28 15:34:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Akita T

And about the whole "no time to hang with friends"... I mean, I have no idea how you guys have your schools going, but to me, back during my school days, actual class hours WERE time spent with friends (well, except the time you had tests, that doesn't count).


Let me educate you then.

Lets see, I believe the typical rules were as follows for the CPS (chicago Public School) and were quite common in all the other systems I attended:

1. No talking unless addressing the teacher.
2. Only address the teacher if called upon.
3. Keep your hand raised until called upon (really fun if your 1 of 50 students in the same class room).
4. You have five minutes between classes to get your books, use the rest room, get a two second drink from the fountain and make it to the next class. Failure to arrive on time can result in being marked late (even if your a few seconds late, depending on if the teacher is an ass or not) Be late several times is grounds for a detention. (Please envision either a multileveled building or one spread out in such a way that you may have to run in some places to meet the deadline.)
5. 20 minute lunch break with some schools mandating you must eat all your food.
6. Note passing is grounds for being kept after class and or school.
7. Students that are not a part of extra ciricular activities must be off the school grounds thirty minutes after last period.

So where do kids have time to socialize at school? Ah I see, the five minutes between classes, the twenty minutes during lunch and the amount of time they can squeeze out at the end of the day.

Keep in mind I attended primary, middle and high school in the 90's to the middle of this decade and most of this was before they added police patrols, random bag checks, metal detectors, strip searches and made schools constitutional dead zones. Hmm, this sounds familiar, what other institution his this sort of control over its charges?

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2009.09.28 19:46:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
Originally by: goodby4u
Edited by: goodby4u on 27/09/2009 19:48:28
server Error
404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

Just because the OP can't link properly is no excuse to fail at reaching a page.
Actually thats quite a good reason to fail at reaching a page.
Not when he actually wrote the whole URL in the first post.

Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.09.28 19:50:00 - [43]
 


I remember a time in grade school where someone threw a bunch of .22 caliber bullets in the coal stove.

They started cooking off and made an awful racket.

The teacher had to punish someone so he beat all the boys.

It worked. He got the kid that put the bullets in the stove.



Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.09.28 21:10:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Jacob Mei
[...]So where do kids have time to socialize at school? Ah I see, the five minutes between classes, the twenty minutes during lunch and the amount of time they can squeeze out at the end of the day.
Keep in mind I attended primary, middle and high school in the 90's to the middle of this decade and most of this was before they added police patrols, random bag checks, metal detectors, strip searches and made schools constitutional dead zones. Hmm, this sounds familiar, what other institution his this sort of control over its charges?

Nice prisons schools you have there...
...and they say communism//socialism was opressive ? Laughing

Mr Reeth
Posted - 2009.09.28 21:23:00 - [45]
 

Schools in America are, for the most part, local institutions. That means that you could have a really great school in one town and a total crap school in the next.

I really don't think kids need to be in school eight hours a day. And I really don't think summer vacation should be reduced or eliminated.

America is really headed down a dangerous path in education. There is a greater focus on how much class time there is and on passing standardized tests. It seems like they're trying to turn American schools into Japanese schools. And that's the last kind of education anybody should have.

Rashmika Sky
Amarr
R. Sky Escorts
Posted - 2009.09.29 00:16:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Jacob Mei


4. You have five minutes between classes
5. 20 minute lunch break with some schools mandating you must eat all your food.



You had *five* minutes?! I only had three! Crying or Very sad

As to your 5th point, I think we may have discovered the source of obesity in America's children...

On that note, I support Obama's initiative on the grounds that all the extra time spent in school will be spent doing exercise. ;)

-Rash

Cardiana
Posted - 2009.09.29 00:31:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
What those of you outside of the US don't understand, is that the skool system here is trash and has been since the start of the progressive era.

We have a centrally controlled system that takes the power out of the hands of the parents, and puts the decisions into the hands of some politician thousands of miles away.

Amerika, excuse me, America, is too big for that.

The American school system is also modeled against the Prussian system. Remember the Prussian system? Where is Prussia now? But they did churn out a lot of good mindless soldiers in the meantime, didn't they? This modeling after the Prussian system of creating mindless state-worshiping bots out of children is the reason why we call the first year "Kindergarten". (This is related to the reason why foot soldiers are called "infantry").

Clues dawning on anybody yet?

So we have a country of idiots brought to you by this school system.

Those of us in the know will expect that expanding the existing indoctrination system will simply cost more and simply not work, as the standing problems are not addressed.

When they found out that leeches were not curing everything, did they simply put on more leeches?

In the meantime, I wonder what all that hopey-changey love Obama thing the schools are pushing on the kids will stand up now? Kids don't invest as much ego in a concept or following as adults do. It's hard to convince an adult that any system they supported is really crap (that goes for the so-called conservatives AND the so-called liberals). But all kids will know is that their day is longer, and their summer is shorter, and there is a reason why kids always hate school too. Not only is the indoctrination against the innate independence of the young mind (limited only by being young), but the rote-memory systemic teaching is also quite boring too. They hate school for a reason, but now the man who they are told is their lord and savior is about to ram more of it down their throats if he gets his way.




good. i never before noticed the word infantry. well. what can i say. its true. for many poeple it will be outright offensive but thats just their big egos.

silly person
Posted - 2009.09.29 00:39:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Emil Erlenmeyer
Originally by: silly person
Screw the baby boomers, bunch of goddamn hippies. Go back further.
Well, it wasn't like they got hit less the further back you go, more likely the opposite so what's your point?

??? My point is that if you beat kids, they pay attention, and will work harder. So, my point was to go back to before the baby boomers, when kids got hit more.

Beating children builds character.

Amoranis
Gallente
Independent Faction
Posted - 2009.09.29 00:41:00 - [49]
 

OMG BLARG D:

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.29 01:20:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Jacob Mei
[...]So where do kids have time to socialize at school? Ah I see, the five minutes between classes, the twenty minutes during lunch and the amount of time they can squeeze out at the end of the day.
Keep in mind I attended primary, middle and high school in the 90's to the middle of this decade and most of this was before they added police patrols, random bag checks, metal detectors, strip searches and made schools constitutional dead zones. Hmm, this sounds familiar, what other institution his this sort of control over its charges?

Nice prisons schools you have there...
...and they say communism//socialism was opressive ? Laughing



Yep, and Obama wants to have kilds spend more time in these wonderful institutions of learning and development, ran by the cream of the crop of sub par educational professionals who have long lost any trace of the desire to pass knowledge and wisdom to the next generation. Welcoem to the american public school system.

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.09.30 04:20:00 - [51]
 

Being in an American High school in a state with a high quality of education (supposedly), Wisconsin, it's still genuinely awful.

I think I would have fit in much better during the Renaissance/Age of Enlightenment. Music/History/English. Some maths. Interesting and important stuff, taught you what you needed to know, if you wanted to learn more, you did. Simple as that.

Some of the math classes they force you to take are just ridiculous. I dare any of you to name a way you used Calculus in your own life in a way that you could not learn on the spot as needed. History they teach is incredibly important but nobody cares. History is meant to be related to the current day but nobody seems to have the sense to do so - but the teachers can't do it without being canned (have to be politically neutral and can't spread their political opinions onto others). Alternatively, my European History teacher has opted to throw that out the window and connect the faults of the Europeans to the current decline of the United States. Throws in other random political arguments as well, such as how the US is probably going to splinter into several regions after the oil price spikes and we can no longer sustain our economy on such a large scale.

It's funny, they expect you to memorize all these facts with little or no interest in the subject, and without teaching you any basic memorization techniques or how the human mind actually categorizes and stores information. Even the Greek's knew about this ugh

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.09.30 05:13:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK

You mean the option of door #1 isn't incentive enough to stay away from Door #2?
Door number two looks like more fun. Although it's hard to not like power pointing.Cool

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.30 16:18:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Atomos Darksun
I dare any of you to name a way you used Calculus in your own life in a way that you could not learn on the spot as needed. History they teach is incredibly important but nobody cares.


There was this one time that…. Oh wait, that was addition and subtraction, my bad.

Originally by: Atomos Darksun
History they teach is incredibly important but nobody cares. History is meant to be related to the current day but nobody seems to have the sense to do so - but the teachers can't do it without being canned (have to be politically neutral and can't spread their political opinions onto others). Alternatively, my European History teacher has opted to throw that out the window and connect the faults of the Europeans to the current decline of the United States.


Have no fear; if you go into college it is the norm for most good history professors to NOT be politically correct. I had an Asian history class that the professor actually made you want to get there on time (which was no small thing, considering it was a 9 am class). Of course considering College is purely opt in as opposed to all the other levels before it that might help things.

Originally by: Atomos Darksun
It's funny, they expect you to memorize all these facts with little or no interest in the subject, and without teaching you any basic memorization techniques or how the human mind actually categorizes and stores information. Even the Greek's knew about this


As I said, schoolsare treated as businesses with the government being the primary customer. They don’t care if you retain most of the skills they teach you (sure you get the exception but its not a common one these days), so long as they can pass you can pass the SAT or what have you that determines how much cash they get the following year and can pass you they just don’t care (and even then, some schools are not above throwing kids into the “special needs” classes, as they are exempt from those testing).

The sad thing is that the continued use of this system has seen to it already that the typical American will be outclassed by those from other nations and will result in a domino affect. While some people may take enjoyment in this, do you really want a first world nuclear power whose fingers are in practically every meaningful facet of your lives to slip into third world status? I can assure you that if America goes, its going to drag the rest of the world with it much like how Rome did with Europe.

Elora Danzik
Caldari
Idiots In Spaceships
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.09.30 16:39:00 - [54]
 

Being a product of this educational system, I can tell you the suckyness depends on the area as atated above.

I had the oppourtunity to take an independent study class my junior year. I was suppose to work on a science project all year. I basically used it to not have to do anything.

The biggest problem is you "have" to memorize. You "have" to learn X. There is little joy in the learning. I had to take two years of a foreign language to graduate. Choices were Latin, French, and Spainish.

Fortunately, I was in the band, and jazz band. So I had two hours a day of non mindnumbing classes.

Calvin Firenze
Minmatar
Caeli Veredictum
Posted - 2009.09.30 17:07:00 - [55]
 

In my experience, smaller classes and teachers that actually care will help the students more than longer time in the classroom.

My graduating class was 7 people. My smallest class was a photography course that was myself and one other student. My biggest class was 15 students. The school taught K-12 in one building with a grand total of 114 students. On graduation day, the lowest GPA was mine at 3.74 on a 4.0 scale. I felt like the idiot of the group.

OP, the vast majority of the Eve playerbase, including myself, is far beyond high school and we really don't give a rip about your free time. Personally I think it would be wonderful for students to be in school year round so its not so much of a culture shock when they get into the real world and have to WORK year round, pay bills and manage their money.

My personal gripe with the American education system is that it doesn't teach ANY real life skills. Granted, that should be the parents' responsibility, but it should at least be reinforced in the education system. Right now the education system is popping out naive, irresponsible people who think life should be handed to them on a silver platter as evidenced by the OP whining about his "free time."

You are in for a serious wake up call when you hit the adult world.

Nai Ling
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
Posted - 2009.10.01 02:21:00 - [56]
 

The problem with the American school system is that there are not enough teachers that care to teach their students. The system punishes teachers that care about their students, and rewards those who push out zombies.

The only real solution to the problem is:
- Smaller classrooms
- Teachers that care
- Better pay for teachers
- Administrators that aren't complete douchebags
- Get rid of "No Child Left Behind." It's completely ******ed.
- Get books that are current. Not from 1954. (Seriously, I had a world geography book that Yugoslavia on the map...)
- YEAR ROUND SCHOOL (3 weeks in, 1 week out. Summer Vacation = 3-4 weeks)


And honestly, the schools should put more trust in the students. The school system doesn't always know what's best for the kids. If the child asks to be placed in advanced classes, they should take the request seriously, and not ignore and trivialize it. If a kid ASKS for harder classes, it usually means they're bored. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

Thorliaron
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.10.01 02:29:00 - [57]
 

I always thought multiple choice question exams where a bit strange

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.10.01 20:58:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Nai Ling
The problem with the American school system is that there are not enough teachers that care to teach their students. The system punishes teachers that care about their students, and rewards those who push out zombies.

The only real solution to the problem is:
- Smaller classrooms
- Teachers that care
- Better pay for teachers
- Administrators that aren't complete douchebags
- Get rid of "No Child Left Behind." It's completely ******ed.

- Get books that are current. Not from 1954. (Seriously, I had a world geography book that Yugoslavia on the map...)
- YEAR ROUND SCHOOL (3 weeks in, 1 week out. Summer Vacation = 3-4 weeks)


And honestly, the schools should put more trust in the students. The school system doesn't always know what's best for the kids. If the child asks to be placed in advanced classes, they should take the request seriously, and not ignore and trivialize it. If a kid ASKS for harder classes, it usually means they're bored. Give them the benefit of the doubt.
The two bolded once are so true it's not even funny.

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.01 21:17:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Nai Ling
The problem with the American school system is that there are not enough teachers that care to teach their students. The system punishes teachers that care about their students, and rewards those who push out zombies.

The only real solution to the problem is:
- Smaller classrooms
- Teachers that care
- Better pay for teachers
- Administrators that aren't complete douchebags
- Get rid of "No Child Left Behind." It's completely ******ed.
- Get books that are current. Not from 1954. (Seriously, I had a world geography book that Yugoslavia on the map...)
- YEAR ROUND SCHOOL (3 weeks in, 1 week out. Summer Vacation = 3-4 weeks)


And honestly, the schools should put more trust in the students. The school system doesn't always know what's best for the kids. If the child asks to be placed in advanced classes, they should take the request seriously, and not ignore and trivialize it. If a kid ASKS for harder classes, it usually means they're bored. Give them the benefit of the doubt.


I agree with everything you said save the year round year school idea.

In my opinion youths need a period of time in which they can expand themselves outside of a classroom. Granted this doesnt happen for everyone but to have a period set aside to go on a camping trip with the family, to be able to go outside of the country, make friends, enjoy a summer project and what not is just as important.

Nai Ling
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
Posted - 2009.10.01 21:33:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Jacob Mei
I agree with everything you said save the year round year school idea.

In my opinion youths need a period of time in which they can expand themselves outside of a classroom. Granted this doesnt happen for everyone but to have a period set aside to go on a camping trip with the family, to be able to go outside of the country, make friends, enjoy a summer project and what not is just as important.

I attended school for two years in Nevada, and it ran on the Year Round schedule. I loved it. You still get a chance to hang out with friends, family, and have a social life. In fact.. I think you have MORE time to have a social life, because of the week off between your 3 weeks in school. Children generally make friends with kids on their same schedule anyways, so when they are out for that week, they will usually hang out with each other. The fact that you didn't have to spend 4 months of the school year on revision was awesome!


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