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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.27 07:21:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Lickalotopus
i find it p. unbalanced that a group of 10 or less bombers can just wtfpwn bs gangs.

There was a quote once from a CCP guy (Oveur I think):
"The Battleship is not intended to be, nor was it ever intended to be, a solowtfpwnmobile!"

Bring some support and learn to put together a proper fleet!

Bestofworst
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.27 07:25:00 - [62]
 

A counter to blobs.. dear god.

Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.09.27 07:39:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Bestofworst
A counter to blobs.. dear god.


Exactly what I was thinking.

Bombs are a hell of a lot better design to counter blobs than DDs ever were. I say more Blob nerfs!!!!

---Isaac

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.09.27 08:03:00 - [64]
 

...So why not just kill the SB blob's tackle?

Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
Posted - 2009.09.27 09:26:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Lickalotopus
i find it p. unbalanced that a group of 10 or less bombers can just wtfpwn bs gangs.

There was a quote once from a CCP guy (Oveur I think):
"The Battleship is not intended to be, nor was it ever intended to be, a solowtfpwnmobile!"

Bring some support and learn to put together a proper fleet!


This.

The only thing which could be "unbalanced" is the player's individual PvP approach. If you die to something, it doesn't mean its unbalanced. Bombers were so useless until the last change and many people cried tears about it. Now SB are useful and some minorities start crying tears about it.

It's a harsh EvE world and you should adapt or die or simply unsubscribe (yeah beacause EVE is dieing)...

Red Thunder
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:47:00 - [66]
 

im glad to finally be seeing someone using them to their maximum potential :)

Esk Esme
Caldari
Smack Crack and Pot
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:53:00 - [67]
 

To the OP

here's a small clue for you

the ship is called STEALTH BOMBER does that say anything to u ??

also they are paper thin learn to adapt instead crying like a little *****

my spelling sux quick call english teacher to spank me

MAX MEXX
Posted - 2009.09.27 11:04:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: MAX MEXX on 27/09/2009 11:06:14


Arrow warp in cloacked
Arrow uncloack
Arrow drop bomb
Arrow warp out.

Takes about 2-3 seconds, no ships has time to lock anything before they have warped out.

And for funn a qoute from your friendly goon leadership:
Quote:
Stahlregen: what i found interesting is that it seems the only good defense against organised bombing is to bubble your own fleet
and hope they get sucked into smartbomb range, which needless to say isn't optimal.



http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1186322&page=1#16

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.09.27 12:30:00 - [69]
 

bombs have 240HP with 99.5% resistance to "themselves".
the final bomb can take 47999 damage while still dealing its up-to-8k (there could also be 50 unresisted hull hp if i read chruker's db right... add that if so -.-)
so one bomber-run amounts to <56k kaboom - considerably less as that'd be the mathematical maximum - and with 400m explosion radius to boot.

this doesn't sound too much at all (and i was on the receiving end yesterday -.-) ; it needs at least two bomber runs to take down (properly tanked) BSs - even two squads in order to do it consecutively. i'd say getting that sh|t together is allowed to be powerful. besides, it's not like they got all BS.
and i'm sure those pilots are being missed elsewhere. yesterday's gang may have dealt more kaboom, but POSes e.a. - which was the objective - have not been threatened.

too bad for projectiles though... if fleets adapt and shift their tanking away from triple-eanm towards triple hardener, all those cute little ammo tweaks will be for naught and lasers will enjoy an em hole... yay...
or we'll be "encouraged" to fly amarr even more as they have that tiny bit more explo resi ugh

but yeah, if this gets out of hand, im sure ccp will reduce explosion radius and damage proportionately. but then again... that'd be too obvious/logical Rolling Eyes however, we aren't there just yet.

apart from that, this incident occured at a titan-bridge-cyno; i'm sure increasing the appearance radius could also be an option (unless it's strictly connected to other cyno-rlated radii). i'm sure this result wouldn't have been possible at a gate.

Dionisius
Gallente
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.09.27 12:33:00 - [70]
 

You forgot about the latest ship that CCP released.

The CHARLIESHEENWTFPWN Frigate with multiple pintle mounted cannons and unlimited ammo.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.27 12:55:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: MAX MEXX
Arrow warp in cloacked
Arrow uncloack
Arrow drop bomb
Arrow warp out.

Takes about 2-3 seconds, no ships has time to lock anything before they have warped out.
Uhm… tons of ships can do that — again, try looking beyond battleships. They're for sissies anyway…

Kythren
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.27 13:05:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Kythren on 27/09/2009 13:05:06
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: MAX MEXX
Arrow warp in cloacked
Arrow uncloack
Arrow drop bomb
Arrow warp out.

Takes about 2-3 seconds, no ships has time to lock anything before they have warped out.
Uhm… tons of ships can do that — again, try looking beyond battleships. They're for sissies anyway…


yes but then again those ships will most likely die from the bombs just launched if they dont try to GTFAWAY. at the alliance tournament the destroyers had to mwd away otherwise they would have been killed, however they had a little more time to get out.

+1 on the bs thing

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.27 13:47:00 - [73]
 

Dominion is still going to lower the skill requirement for bomb deployment? yes? Twisted Evil

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.27 14:24:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Kythren
yes but then again those ships will most likely die from the bombs just launched if they dont try to GTFAWAY. at the alliance tournament the destroyers had to mwd away otherwise they would have been killed, however they had a little more time to get out.
1. MWD is bad for you when a bomb is heading in your direction (it turns 640 raw damage to a frig into 3200 raw damage).
2. Don't bunch up.
3. Destroyers are huge and will die to anything anyway, so their being killed from bombs comes as no surprise.

Cornette
Gallente
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2009.09.27 14:35:00 - [75]
 

Bombers are awesome and very fun when you coordinate with others.

A few days ago we used 4 to break up a hostile gatecamp of 10+ people, who used a mix of hac's and bc's and tacklers.

They were bubbling with a large and sat in it themselves relative close to each other. We slowly moved in at them each from a different direction so we wouldn't decloak ourself while trying to determine the best target.

Given that the bubble was large we decided to go for a deimos who was close to the edge of it and moved within 30km.

Then FC started to count down 3.. 2.. 1.. and we dropped cloak and launched.

One bomber didn't get to launch his bomb because of him missing the order. Another launched but missed and got destroyed immediately because he didn't warp away right after launching.

2 hit and popped the deimos that was poorly tanked (probably had his mwd on as well).


The whole was quite fun and it broke up their camp. For the reminder of our time in system they didn't dare to sit concentrated on any gate.

Michwich
Posted - 2009.09.27 14:41:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 27/09/2009 14:44:36
Edited by: Michwich on 27/09/2009 14:42:39
Id think underpowered as a whole. There really needs to be cheap alternatives to deal with expensive ones. Look at real life. A single bullet can kill any man regardless of wealth, hence the game there is to protect any important individual with all means necessary. Or in war a simple IED can take out millions worth of technology, or and simple technology like an RPG can take out more advanced technologies like tanks with guierilla style tactics. In wwii 2 stuka bombers wrecked havoc the the ground below. A relatively cheap method of destruction. In the real world people are always finding cheap ways to destroy expensive things, as it should be. As it should be easier to tear down than it is to create. Thats life. In the fake world we dont have such rules unfortunately, we have companies that build ships that travel in dangerouse territory to be paper thin, we have favourtism unbalance and attempts at balance that all fail because of 1 key element thats missing in all virtual worlds. Im not telling.

Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.27 15:13:00 - [77]
 

BS blob nublets get wtfpwnbbqed by wolfpax :shocker:

Working as intended and is good to see there are counters to blobs beyond bigger blobs. Bring support (LR hacs i.e.) to kill them.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.27 16:19:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Kythren
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: MAX MEXX
Arrow warp in cloacked
Arrow uncloack
Arrow drop bomb
Arrow warp out.

Takes about 2-3 seconds, no ships has time to lock anything before they have warped out.
Uhm… tons of ships can do that — again, try looking beyond battleships. They're for sissies anyway…

yes but then again those ships will most likely die from the bombs just launched if they dont try to GTFAWAY. at the alliance tournament the destroyers had to mwd away otherwise they would have been killed, however they had a little more time to get out.

You have 15 seconds to kill them after they decloak, and 2-3 seconds to get a scram on them. It requires you to have a proper interceptor element who can lock and scram them fast, and a proper anti-support element who lock them a little slower, but kills them fast.

If they're dead, their bombs don't explode (afaik).

It is also up to you to not have your BS fleet bunched up, to not have them sitting still, to have your fleet properly balanced and to have your support fleet properly trained.
In short, if you are a good FC, bombers are a nuisance, but not a huge threat!

Soma Khan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.27 17:31:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: Lickalotopus
whine


ATLAS alt detected Laughing

this

Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2009.09.27 19:04:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Bestofworst
A counter to blobs.. dear god.
Thank the gods.

Agent Unknown
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.27 20:47:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Agent Unknown on 27/09/2009 20:48:09
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Kythren
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: MAX MEXX
Arrow warp in cloacked
Arrow uncloack
Arrow drop bomb
Arrow warp out.

Takes about 2-3 seconds, no ships has time to lock anything before they have warped out.
Uhm… tons of ships can do that — again, try looking beyond battleships. They're for sissies anyway…

yes but then again those ships will most likely die from the bombs just launched if they dont try to GTFAWAY. at the alliance tournament the destroyers had to mwd away otherwise they would have been killed, however they had a little more time to get out.

You have 15 seconds to kill them after they decloak, and 2-3 seconds to get a scram on them. It requires you to have a proper interceptor element who can lock and scram them fast, and a proper anti-support element who lock them a little slower, but kills them fast.

If they're dead, their bombs don't explode (afaik).

It is also up to you to not have your BS fleet bunched up, to not have them sitting still, to have your fleet properly balanced and to have your support fleet properly trained.
In short, if you are a good FC, bombers are a nuisance, but not a huge threat!



Correct. A bomb will NOT go off if the bomber warps off before the bomb explodes (afaik). You can also shoot the bomb and pop it before it actually does go off (needs fast lockers, but possible).

Also, one of the worst messages you can get when being bombed: "You are unable to cloak because there is a Bomb within 2,000 meters of your ship." Laughing

Karasuma Akane
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.09.27 21:04:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Karasuma Akane on 27/09/2009 21:04:26
Originally by: Grath Telkin
I know this is going to sound silly, but bombers and bombs in general were designed to fight the blob. Its their sole function really. If you bunch up, with many targets, then you make yourself bomber prey. If you spread out, and cover more area, or operate in smaller faster groups, your immune to the bomber. Its probably the one decent thing CCP has given smaller groups of players to combat the general "BRING ALL YOUR FREINDS YO!" mentality that most of EVE holds. In other words, working as intended

This. Plus, your battleship blob should have accompanying fleet support consisting of light ships which can be effective against bombers.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.09.27 21:06:00 - [83]
 

Unless it's one giant SB force, then one round of bombs isn't going to do it. What's stopping the fleet from warping off when the bombers are reloading their bombs?

baltec1
Posted - 2009.09.27 21:07:00 - [84]
 

Use support?

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.09.27 21:10:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Unless it's one giant SB force, then one round of bombs isn't going to do it. What's stopping the fleet from warping off when the bombers are reloading their bombs?
If the bomber force fc was wiley enough and had access to the correctly qualified pilots then as soon as the first bombs go off a group of dics launch bubbles then gtfo as the next wave of bombs are lobbed in. Repeat until fleet is dead.

Red Thunder
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.09.27 21:29:00 - [86]
 

cant you just smartbomb the bombs?

also, http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4475749 :)

Maestro Ulv
Phaze-9
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.09.27 22:18:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Agent Unknown


If they're dead, their bombs don't explode (afaik).

A bomb will NOT go off if the bomber warps off before the bomb explodes (afaik).


Incorrect on both counts sir.

Ahistaja
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.09.27 22:45:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Gonada
sorry idiots, post started by goons to brodcast their first? win in a while.

that being said, good show.

Will that ever happen again? highly unlikely, but it does spell the end of undefended sniper blobs for the future.

did it hurt atlas/aaa ? um no.

did you tip your hand early showing off a new tactic? um yes.

do you think that youll ever get away with that again? um, doubt it :)

c u on the battlefield.


i'll bet you stutter even more when you talk than when you type

Originally by: killerkeano
only victims moan


sometimes victims scream too, other times they whimper

in any case, we get a little bit of everything from you people

Dillon Arklight
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.09.27 23:07:00 - [89]
 

I dont believe that bombers or bombs for that matter are overpowered. They are doing the job that CCP designed them to do and that is to make blob warfare that little bit less comfortable and desirable. The ability of a small gang of pilots to pose a creditable threat to a "blob" was a component that was needed in EVE.

Heres an example :

Earlier today i was in a gang of 30 in a system with over 450 players in local. Of that number there was only about 80 hostiles so clearly the blob warfare was up and running. Sitting in a sniper position off a gate and killing any random hostiles which entered we were feeling pretty safe. About 2 minutes after someone asked on teamspeak "How many goons are in local?" a group of stealthbombers appeared and bombed us. We lost a few ships but the feeling of helplessness (and boredom) lead eventually to us leaving the system and heading out to roam.

As for being unable to stop stealthbombers its simply that effective tactics havent been widely discussed.

  • If you want to camp a gate and not get bombed then deploy mobile bubbles to a range greater than 30km off the gate so that if a stealthbomber wishes to bomb you he must enter the bubble

  • Be constantly aligned so that if someone shouts "BOMB BOMB BOMB" on teamspeak you only have to warp out to avoid it

  • Position your group so that there is nothing behind you so that the stealthbomber pilot will find it harder to get a good angle to attack you. If that is impossible postiion interdictors 30km away from your fleet in likely attack directions to discourage attacks

  • Also the golden rule which i didnt follow a couple of days ago and consequently was killed : Dont activate your microwarpdrive!


Its not that bombers are overpowered its just that they are still relatively new and as such fleet commanders have not yet got enough experience fighting them.

Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.28 03:38:00 - [90]
 

I hear bombs have relatively low hps outside of their resists.
Now if there was only an area effect weapon I could fit to my Battleship...if only.Rolling Eyes


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