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To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:25:00 - [1711]
 

i see you still refuse to do a fair comparation

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:31:00 - [1712]
 

Originally by: To mare
i see you still refuse to do a fair comparation


EVE is not fair >.>

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:34:00 - [1713]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 30/10/2009 18:35:48
Originally by: Linas IV
Guys you are complaining an awful lot even though

those changes aren't even on Sisi yet!!!

...
Lets all wait till we can test it out properly on Sisi, and then start discussing.



This is very true. I have a large set of caveats in the first post. For instance, we don't know the actual damage layout of the faction ammo, and we don't know how strong Ambits are, and we don't know if ambits are stacking nerfed with tracking comp/enhancers, etc.

Other than that, yes, we do know most of this stuff. I am perfectly happy to redo all of this after things hit test.

Quote:

(Ps: to those graph-junkies, that try to influence ppl here, you all forget
the hit-quality reduction in falloff so substract roughly 15% dps at any ranges >15km)



You should realize that I'm the mutha ****in king of reminding people about falloff damage reduction. These graphs include it.

-Liang

Ed:
Originally by: To Mare
i see you still refuse to do a fair comparation


You are free to suggest alternate fittings or assumptions. When you make a clear cut set of suggestions, I'll be glad to graph them up for you. Until then, you're doing nothing more than whining.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:35:00 - [1714]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

I dunno, the buffer on your Abaddon is pretty low TBH. I'm willing to bet that the solid tank on the Mael would push that gang size up comparatively. I'm betting it's a better choice in up to gang size 5-6, especially considering how well it performs across the board.



Depends on the circumstances. But still 5-6 is about the size of a small battleship gang. So they are evenly matched for this.

Quote:

Additionally, the Maelstrom can freely engage under sentry fire. Your Abaddon would be a very poor choice indeed for that.



That is only really relevant for gatecamps. In any other situation it is not as if sentry dps will damage you fast enough to make a big difference.

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:37:00 - [1715]
 

Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 30/10/2009 18:42:22
Originally by: Liang Nuren

This is very true. I have a large set of caveats in the first post. For instance, we don't know the actual damage layout of the faction ammo, and we don't know how strong Ambits are, and we don't know if ambits are stacking nerfed with tracking comp/enhancers, etc.



Unless they go to break the current way of things, faction ammo is just 10/15/20% boost on damage of charge, damage type relation is fixed. I'd not touch Ambits, until more info is unveiled, though.

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:43:00 - [1716]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
You are free to suggest alternate fittings or assumptions. When you make a clear cut set of suggestions, I'll be glad to graph them up for you. Until then, you're doing nothing more than whining.


i already suggested to remove the ambits and use tank rigs like the other setups you using.
and stop getting alway the best scenario possible life EMP on shield and fusion on armor.

as i already said you can only choose dmg type if you know whats coming but in a non prearranged fight you never know whats coming.
yes selectable dmg type is a advantage but not at that point you showing

Succubine
Caldari
Succubine Dynasty Technologies
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:47:00 - [1717]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Succubine
Comparable to your bias-fit, unrealistic Maelstrom. This raven now does 948 dps up to ~41km or 743 dps up to ~64km of any pure damage type.


Actually, the Mael will heavily outdamage that Raven, which loses a very significant amount of damage to sig radius.



Against battleships, especially tier 3 battleships which have fat 450+ sigs, I very much disagree. The Maelstrom may outdps against smaller unpainted ships if it can track them.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:52:00 - [1718]
 

Originally by: To mare

i already suggested to remove the ambits and use tank rigs like the other setups you using.
and stop getting alway the best scenario possible life EMP on shield and fusion on armor.

as i already said you can only choose dmg type if you know whats coming but in a non prearranged fight you never know whats coming.
yes selectable dmg type is a advantage but not at that point you showing


To Mare has a point, I would probably use omni damage if the changes pass, most of the time (as in 3 Fusion, 3 EMP and 2 PP in a 8 turrets battleship).

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:58:00 - [1719]
 

Originally by: To mare
i already suggested to remove the ambits and use tank rigs like the other setups you using.
and stop getting alway the best scenario possible life EMP on shield and fusion on armor.



And I gave you a VERY ****ING CLEAR manner to get what you want. Either YOU cooperate, or I'm not making the ****ing graphs. I don't have all ****ing day to eft *****. You want it, YOU do the EFT whorage and give me the numbers I need.

Quote:
as i already said you can only choose dmg type if you know whats coming but in a non prearranged fight you never know whats coming.


All of those fits are very viable fits in modern TQ gang PVP. They are not prearranged bull**** fits.

-Liang

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:11:00 - [1720]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: To mare
i already suggested to remove the ambits and use tank rigs like the other setups you using.
and stop getting alway the best scenario possible life EMP on shield and fusion on armor.



And I gave you a VERY ****ING CLEAR manner to get what you want. Either YOU cooperate, or I'm not making the ****ing graphs. I don't have all ****ing day to eft *****. You want it, YOU do the EFT whorage and give me the numbers I need.

Quote:
as i already said you can only choose dmg type if you know whats coming but in a non prearranged fight you never know whats coming.


All of those fits are very viable fits in modern TQ gang PVP. They are not prearranged bull**** fits.

-Liang


do you already buy you maelstroms with ambit already plugged in or the idea of changing rigs type is really that hard.
i even said in the first reply that the fit you made are viable but you comparing ships made to do different things.
i say it again no one force you to fit ambits, if the current changes get implemente you wont have the need of using ambits just to make the ships work but you could use useful rigs in the same way you use them on the other 2 setups

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:14:00 - [1721]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 30/10/2009 19:17:02
Originally by: Linas IV

(Ps: to those graph-junkies, that try to influence ppl here, you all forget
the hit-quality reduction in falloff so substract roughly 15% dps at any ranges >15km)



Liang is intelligent enough to know the falloff formula. He isn't using EFT. What you see is the performance you get, at least in terms of the settings of the graphs.

I'm going to make a request in a minute, but I want to work out the specifics so Liang doesn't have to do the work. What I'm thinking:

Target 1: 2x Invuln, 2x LSE, 3x CDFE, DC Raven.
Target 2: 3x Trimark, 1x EANM, 2x 1600mm RT, DC Abaddon.
Target 3: Mega? Stats to come.

Attacker 1: Maelstrom as in first graph, without the TE or Ambits. Graph RF EMP, RF Fusion, and RF PP together.
Attacker 2: Hype as in first graph. CN Antimatter
Attacker 3: Abaddon as in first graph. AN MF, Scorch

I'll attempt to come up with a weighted average of resists including shield, armor, and hull, so that we're not look at what works best when you shoot at a single layer, but who kills who the fastest at what range.

FAKE EDIT: Just did the math.

Raven Weighted resists:
EM = 56.34633824
TH = 60.87317646
KIN = 62.77969442
EXP = 62.8878333

Abaddon Weighted Resists:
EM = 61.99763749
TH = 60.46069421
KIN = 60.4392822
EXP = 60.4371752

I can already tell this is going to be interesting for the Abaddon. (Damn that thing has some nice resists.) I'll be figuring out the weighted resists for a Mega in a bit. We might be about to see that damage selection is less important than I thought.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:16:00 - [1722]
 

Originally by: Kaileen Starsong

Can you do 2 charts please?
No drones, no damage hardwires.



Yeah, gladly.

Quote:

1. a) TQ-Hurricane: 6x425s /w RF Fusion(TQ Stats), 2xHAMs /w Exp Rages, 4xgyros, 3xambits
b) Dom-Hurricane: 6x425s /w RF Fusion(23 exp, 4.6 kin, assume 0.5 range mod is on optimal still), 2xHAMs with Exp Rages, 3xgyros+2xTE, T2 Rof rig
c) Harbinger: 7xHP /w AN MF, 3xHS, 2xlocuses
d) Ham-Drake: 7xHAMs /w Terror Rages, 3xBCS
Them shooting 2xeanm+dc T1 armour tank of 250 sig rad with 70 m/s linear velocity contribution to transversal



I don't know if I have an implementation of missile damage in this graph app. I'll look into it, but don't make guarantees to get that done today. Also, can I snag the unwebbed velocity, or is that the unwebbed velocity? I'm going to use the 2 EANM, DC Domi for resist profile if that's ok with you.


Quote:

2. All the same, except ammo choice(RF EMP and EM Rages). Shooting 2xinvul+dc T1 shield tank of 300 sig rad with 70 m/s transversal.



Yeah, also easy enough. I'll use the Raven's 2x Invuln+DC resist layout.

-Liang

Techno Cat
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:20:00 - [1723]
 

Edited by: Techno Cat on 30/10/2009 19:20:38
Liang thank you the charts!

After i watch them, and play a little with EFT, i'm begin to fear the Arty's remain broken in PvE.

My plot is to see the AC's effectivenes in PvE, and how the Arty's doing in the same situation. The very question is in PvE perhaps the Ambit or Barrage supported AC's are played down the 1200mm Arty's, like the Apoc + Mega Pulse can play down the Tachyon.

Sorry if i made a dumb question, just become affraid the AC's boost actually made the Arty's absolute obselete in PvE. ugh

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:21:00 - [1724]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

I don't know if I have an implementation of missile damage in this graph app. I'll look into it, but don't make guarantees to get that done today. Also, can I snag the unwebbed velocity, or is that the unwebbed velocity? I'm going to use the 2 EANM, DC Domi for resist profile if that's ok with you.



Well, let's say 180 m/s for unwebbed. If missile damage is too annoying to calc, then drop those aswell, I'd guesstimate a bit myself. Also, forgot dominion RF Emp profile, it's 20.7 EM/4.6 Exp/2.3 Kin.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:31:00 - [1725]
 

Originally by: Techno Cat

Liang thank you the charts!

After i watch them, and play a little with EFT, i'm begin to fear the Arty's remain broken in PvE.

My plot is to see the AC's effectivenes in PvE, and how the Arty's doing in the same situation. The very question is in PvE perhaps the Ambit or Barrage supported AC's are played down the 1200mm Arty's, like the Apoc + Mega Pulse can play down the Tachyon.

Sorry if i made a dumb question, just become affraid the AC's boost actually made the Arty's absolute obselete in PvE. ugh


Seriously, who cares if ACs are better than 1200 at PVE? As long as there is SOMETHING that works that is all that is needed in pve.

CCP itself seems to think minnie pve is about ACs, that is clear enough looking at the Vargur and the Machariel.

Otebski
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:47:00 - [1726]
 

Edited by: Otebski on 30/10/2009 19:47:31
Liang can you please swap from using 2 eanm targets to eanm+explo or 2x eanm and 1 explo rig? You know the big "what if" people actually start pluging explo hole

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:49:00 - [1727]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 30/10/2009 19:50:01
Originally by: To mare

do you already buy you maelstroms with ambit already plugged in or the idea of changing rigs type is really that hard.
i even said in the first reply that the fit you made are viable but you comparing ships made to do different things.
i say it again no one force you to fit ambits, if the current changes get implemente you wont have the need of using ambits just to make the ships work but you could use useful rigs in the same way you use them on the other 2 setups



I actually don't care either way whether the ambits are there or not. If you think they're unfair, post the specifics I asked for. I can (and will) calculate falloff myself.

-Liang

Quote:
Liang can you please swap from using 2 eanm targets to eanm+explo or 2x eanm and 1 explo rig? You know the big "what if" people actually start pluging explo hole


Yes, but I want you to give me the exact resist profile you want tested. I do not have EFT at work. :)

Mashashige
Minmatar
Eternal Perseverance
Hellstrome Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:50:00 - [1728]
 

liang, could you please do a graph that combines either all 3 ships using both short and long range ammo (i.e 6 lines), or just combine them to simulate a ship switching to long range ammo when it starts doing more dps than short range. Assume BS trans, and bs sig radius - and 0 resists please. The fits you've used so far should be fine.

Also, although blasters seem to be left behind at certain points, from what I gather it seems like ACs are pretty well balanced to lasers - less raw dps, less 100% dmg range, but with the ability to switch ammo types. Blaster still kinda suck, and need 10% dps increase coupled with some tracking enhancements (maybe 10-15% more). Also, lasers def need a tracking nerf - being the self proclaimed "long range weapons", its kinda hilariously broken that they have the highest natural tracking.

Also, like I've said a couple of times - the balancing issue isn't just the weapons, but the platforms that they are used on, and so far I fail to see how (in terms of ingame performance) minmatar BS will be OP (even barring the lolpest) after said changes.

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:03:00 - [1729]
 

Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 30/10/2009 20:05:28
Originally by: Otebski

Liang can you please swap from using 2 eanm targets to eanm+explo or 2x eanm and 1 explo rig? You know the big "what if" people actually start pluging explo hole


They'd get owned by PP in that case, would end up in even lower EHP to that damage profile, than to Fusion one in case of 2xeanm+dc. Basically if eanm+exp thing would start happening, then you'd be running with PP as default ammo *shrugs*

Edit. That's in case of hardener. If you go exp rig then it'd be pretty much the same for fusion vs PP, so PP as default ammo anyway.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:08:00 - [1730]
 

Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 30/10/2009 20:07:58
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
I think I was clear enough. You did a graphic comparing a Tempest and a Mega firing against a typical armor tanking ship (2EANMII, DCII, Plates). I just want you to do the same comparing a Geddon and a Mega firing a typical shield tanking ship (2 Inv, DCU, LSEs).
humm that's really not how i fit shield tanks but ok...

*reserved* graph and fitting coming up

oh and you read that wrong: the tempest was shooting at the mega's armor and the mega was shooting at the tempest's armor.
[reminds me, was the HP getting switched on the pest aswell..?]

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:14:00 - [1731]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 30/10/2009 20:17:10
Originally by: Kaileen Starsong

They'd get owned by PP in that case, would end up in even lower EHP to that damage profile, than to Fusion one in case of 2xeanm+dc. Basically if eanm+exp thing would start happening, then you'd be running with PP as default ammo *shrugs*

Edit. That's in case of hardener. If you go exp rig then it'd be pretty much the same for fusion vs PP, so PP as default ammo anyway.


The problem is that it only works when you KNOW what will be the default configuration of the target. Today it is a no brainer (2x EANMII+DCII+2 plates), if more people start to use explosive hardeners in the place of a EANMII, or maybe something like (Ex, kin, Therm, DC II + 1 plate) you will never know. You may be shooting the first configuration or the last. So you can't preselect the best ammo possible against it.

Imho EANMs and Inv Fields should be purged from this game, but making explosive damage significant goes a long way to help making them somehting other than the only sensible option.

Originally by: Roemy Schneider
humm that's really not how i fit shield tanks but ok...

*reserved* graph and fitting coming up

oh and you read that wrong: the tempest was shooting at the mega's armor and the mega was shooting at the tempest's armor.
[reminds me, was the HP getting switched on the pest aswell..?]


That is how everybody fits a shield tank. 2 inv field, DCII, LSE. It is as standard as 2 EANM2, DCII, plates.

And I did understand that your example was one ship fighting the other, but as both were armor tanked the result is similar to both shooting another armor tanked target.

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:18:00 - [1732]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 30/10/2009 19:50:01
Originally by: To mare

do you already buy you maelstroms with ambit already plugged in or the idea of changing rigs type is really that hard.
i even said in the first reply that the fit you made are viable but you comparing ships made to do different things.
i say it again no one force you to fit ambits, if the current changes get implemente you wont have the need of using ambits just to make the ships work but you could use useful rigs in the same way you use them on the other 2 setups



I actually don't care either way whether the ambits are there or not. If you think they're unfair, post the specifics I asked for. I can (and will) calculate falloff myself.

-Liang

Quote:
Liang can you please swap from using 2 eanm targets to eanm+explo or 2x eanm and 1 explo rig? You know the big "what if" people actually start pluging explo hole


Yes, but I want you to give me the exact resist profile you want tested. I do not have EFT at work. :)


specifics i would like to see:
hype with neutron
abaddon with megapulse
mael with 800
3 damage mod for eache ship
NO RANGE MODS

all the 3 ships shooting a target omnitanked
close range ammo and T2 long range ammo


Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:21:00 - [1733]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel

The problem is that it only works when you KNOW what will be the default configuration of the target. Today it is a no brainer (2x EANMII+DCII+2 plates), if more people start to use explosive hardeners in the place of a EANMII, or maybe something like (Ex, kin, Therm, DC II + 1 plate) you will never know. You may be shooting the first configuration or the last. So you can't preselect the best ammo possible against it.



Technically, yes. With 2xeanm+dc it's around 10% EHP difference between Fusion and PP damage profiles(taking HG Slaved Abaddon with 2 plates, 2 eanm, dc as example). If you drop eanm for exp hard, you get 30%(!) better EHP vs Fusion than vs PP(compared to 2xeanm config, your EHP vs PP goes down by 15%). Rig is mostly irrelevant, you'd be pretty much always better with Trimark anyway. Now if you also add shield-tanks ingame, then you will pretty much always go with PP.

Emp will be used for most T2, except T2 Minnie(T2 Amarr are either untanked, or plug their therm hole in general).

Secluse
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:28:00 - [1734]
 

Edited by: Secluse on 30/10/2009 20:30:53
Quick question about the graphs:

1. What is the target?

(EDIT: Found them: Raven, 2x Invuln II, DC II (Sig: 575), Domi, 2x EANM II, DC II (Sig: 420), Generic with no resists)

2. Are the graphs assuming a balance resistance across shield, armor and hull, or is it just mapping a single entity with resists at that layer? Because this will change the numbers significantly, it's really convenient to exploit an explosive hole in armor while avoiding the shield layer than needs to be worked through first.

For example, the Cane and Harb 1v1 looks very close at the turret level, until you factor in drones, and that the cane has to be shield tanked to get the benefits, and suddenly you have very 2 evenly balanced ships even with 2x TE, 2x Gyro, and 425 falloff tier bonus.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:31:00 - [1735]
 

Quote:

specifics i would like to see:
hype with neutron
abaddon with megapulse
mael with 800
3 damage mod for eache ship
NO RANGE MODS

all the 3 ships shooting a target omnitanked
close range ammo and T2 long range ammo



http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1184365&page=57#1684

Originally by: Liang Nuren

Of course, you are free to suggest your own fit. I will require this information:
- THE FULL FIT, including any non-fitting implants. I'll assume that whatever you throw my way fits.
- Tracking
- Optimal
- Falloff
- Damage Mod
- ROF
- Ammo damage (EM / Thm / Kin / Exp please). I can probably get this on my own if it's a standard ammo, but I'm lazy.

If you want to propose a different target:
- Velocity
- Sig Radius (in case you want anything to shoot this fit)
- Resists (in case you want anything to shoot this fit)



It is not hard. I have posted my specific requirements. Play by the rules or I simply will not have time to get to your requests. As you can see, there are plenty of other requests from people who *ARE* providing the information I *require*.

-Liang

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:45:00 - [1736]
 

Originally by: Kaileen Starsong

Technically, yes. With 2xeanm+dc it's around 10% EHP difference between Fusion and PP damage profiles(taking HG Slaved Abaddon with 2 plates, 2 eanm, dc as example). If you drop eanm for exp hard, you get 30%(!) better EHP vs Fusion than vs PP(compared to 2xeanm config, your EHP vs PP goes down by 15%). Rig is mostly irrelevant, you'd be pretty much always better with Trimark anyway. Now if you also add shield-tanks ingame, then you will pretty much always go with PP.


You forget a few things:

1) you can overload active hardeners
2) There is more than these two configurations


[Dominix, Armor Tank 1 - booooooring]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I


[Dominix, Armor Tank 3 - I tank explosive]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

[Dominix, Armor Tank 3 - if PP becomes a problem]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

[Dominix, Armor Tank 4 - I don't fear EM]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

The 4th setup, while overloaded (which lasts for 6 minutes and is very reasonable to assume as you will do it once focused) is better than the first against everything but lasers. It is not used today because lasers are too popular.

Now, if you go against a fleet where all 4 setups coexist you will be hard pressed to choose a damage type.

Given, if omni tank modules didn't exist it would be much easier to make it impossible to min-max your damage type, but if ACs become popular again and you suddenly see explosive AND thermal damages as a threat, albeit not the ONLY threats, you will see much more heterodox combinations.

Personally I would like to see the omni resist modules taken from the game and plates stack nerfed against each other.

Quote:

Emp will be used for most T2, except T2 Minnie(T2 Amarr are either untanked, or plug their therm hole in general).

Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:46:00 - [1737]
 

Edited by: Uncle Smokey on 30/10/2009 21:09:29
Originally by: Kaileen Starsong
They'd get owned by PP in that case, would end up in even lower EHP to that damage profile, than to Fusion one in case of 2xeanm+dc. Basically if eanm+exp thing would start happening, then you'd be running with PP as default ammo *shrugs*


People want explosive damage. They get explosive damage. Then people panic they must suddenly use another slot to patch it up. *For sure* everyone will make explosive the highest resistance. Then explosive is not nice any more, and people just switch to PP and own everything twice.

No one here ever noticed that there are 2 systems that can deliver explosive dmg, and 4 systems that can deliver heat?

Now, if I want a true omni tank, there will still be that 1% difference somewhere, and an ammunition for the job. And then I get 'owned' because of that.

Stupid game!

edit: oh yeah, and the sentries.. but no, explosive will definitely be the top 1 resistance. I can only imagine the fear of the damage type you never had to care about before.

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:54:00 - [1738]
 

Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 30/10/2009 21:05:09
Originally by: Etho Demerzel

You forget a few things:

1) you can overload active hardeners
2) There is more than these two configurations



I didn't forget about those points, they're quite valid, yes.

1) Active hardeners also eat cap and overload duration is notably less if you're forced to overload several or all of them(which is not unreasonable in case of a gang fight). I think it's nice trade-off to make.
2) No arguement here, although if you count in shield fits, which are quite popular nowadays(and with these changes even more so), then PP has slight bias to its usefulness over Fusion.

Anyways, that'd be better than current situation Laughing

On removing omni-resist mods I don't really agree. Any ship which is not able to devote that much slots to tanking is going to have issues. Limiting EANMs/Invuls to 1 per ship might be better choice. (Not to mention that plain removing something from the game is bad idea itself, as a rule)

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.10.30 21:10:00 - [1739]
 

Originally by: Kaileen Starsong

On removing omni-resist mods I don't really agree. Any ship which is not able to devote that much slots to tanking is going to have issues. Limiting EANMs/Invuls to 1 per ship might be better choice. (Not to mention that plain removing something from the game is bad idea itself, as a rule)


Or make their bonuses much lower. Current values are way to high in comparison to dedicated single resist hardeners. They should give at most 1/3 of the resist value of a dedicated hardener.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.10.30 21:12:00 - [1740]
 

**** it - do it yourselves. i've had it with the backseats.

http://www.walterzorn.com/grapher/grapher_e.htm

max( 316*0.5^ ((max(0,x-15000)/10000)^2), 265*0.5^ ((max(0,x-45000)/10000)^2)) +115;
max( 309*0.5^ ((max(0,x-05850)/45000)^2), 144*0.5^ ((max(0,x-07800)/67500)^2)) +069;

1. [Armageddon, New Setup 1]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Faint Warp Disruptor I

Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Ogre II x5


2. [Tempest, New Setup 1]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Warp Disruptor II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Ogre II x3


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