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Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:41:00 - [1531]
 

Using AC's on other ships as a tactical option is more of a ship bonus / configuration issue, than about minmatar turrets.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:44:00 - [1532]
 

Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2009 15:47:09
Originally by: Uncle Smokey
Using AC's on other ships as a tactical option is more of a ship bonus / configuration issue, than about minmatar turrets.
Pretty much this.


A prophecy with the right bonuses to pulse lasers, and a naturally large capacitor, would use lasers. A Maelstrom with a 50% projectile damage bonus for instance would never be seen with anything but projectiles.

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:59:00 - [1533]
 

Sure; the fact that without a damage bonus though, the AC is chosen, shows how ACs are better (at small scale).

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:03:00 - [1534]
 

Originally by: Caroline Nikon

Speed changes changed completely game. Roles changed due to that. Each weapon system must be rebalanced against this new eve semantics, not solely one against the other. That is why NERF pulse not boost projectiles is a narrow and stupid view of things. ALL weapon system need rebalancing after the nano age. Projectiles were the most obfuscated ones, that is why they needed to be first. But all of them need to be revisited. ALL of them! On an iterative progressive work of game balance.


Agreed, I am not saying anything else, except that those changes should have come along with speed rebalancing.
Fixing things a year or 2 after you break them might be acceptable development wise but unacceptable towards customers.


Originally by: Caroline Nikon

CCP has been doing an EXCELENT work!


If they did excellent work, we didn't need to have this discusion, ECM rebalancing with Apocrypha or AB bonus to AF currently on Sisi...





If there are such analysis, I haven't seen them(I have read 'almost' all pages here) in here. Could you provide me a link, please? Also, how much CCP is coming from those?


Minmatar has got very good AC ships in sub-BS sizes, I wonder how you want to justify a boost to those already powerfull ships like Rifter, Rupture, Hurricane, Sleipnir or Vagabond.

Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:06:00 - [1535]
 

Okay, I don't have time to elucidate on this before I have to go to work, so I'll keep it short. Simply, while the projectile changes look good in general, they still leave the tempest in the lurch. Its DPS still, simply, sucks. Moreoever, it does not seem to have any other redeeming qualities (unless I've missed a change or two). Here's a quick and dirty fix to the issue:

Increase large AC DPS significantly. Fairly straight forward, but it would require some other balancing tweaks.
*Remove a turret slot on the maelstrom.
*Revisit the typhoon and discover if the large AC DPS increase warrants a change to the ship's stats.
*Increase large artillery damage mod enough so that a maelstrom with 7 turrets inflicts the same DPS/alpha as the maelstrom does now with 8 turrets.

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:09:00 - [1536]
 

Originally by: Wrayeth
Okay, I don't have time to elucidate on this before I have to go to work, so I'll keep it short. Simply, while the projectile changes look good in general, they still leave the tempest in the lurch. Its DPS still, simply, sucks. Moreoever, it does not seem to have any other redeeming qualities (unless I've missed a change or two). Here's a quick and dirty fix to the issue:

Increase large AC DPS significantly. Fairly straight forward, but it would require some other balancing tweaks.
*Remove a turret slot on the maelstrom.
*Revisit the typhoon and discover if the large AC DPS increase warrants a change to the ship's stats.
*Increase large artillery damage mod enough so that a maelstrom with 7 turrets inflicts the same DPS/alpha as the maelstrom does now with 8 turrets.
Or you could just add another bloody turret to the tempest?

Otebski
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:19:00 - [1537]
 

Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Sure; the fact that without a damage bonus though, the AC is chosen, shows how ACs are better (at small scale).


Artifical war in high sec at frigate level is meaningful for whole EVE. Not.

Minnies happen to have one of best frigates and a decent cruiser. That does not change the fact that right now projectiles are really terribad.

Caroline Nikon
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:19:00 - [1538]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Originally by: Caroline Nikon

Speed changes changed completely game. Roles changed due to that. Each weapon system must be rebalanced against this new eve semantics, not solely one against the other. That is why NERF pulse not boost projectiles is a narrow and stupid view of things. ALL weapon system need rebalancing after the nano age. Projectiles were the most obfuscated ones, that is why they needed to be first. But all of them need to be revisited. ALL of them! On an iterative progressive work of game balance.


Agreed, I am not saying anything else, except that those changes should have come along with speed rebalancing.
Fixing things a year or 2 after you break them might be acceptable development wise but unacceptable towards customers.


Originally by: Caroline Nikon

CCP has been doing an EXCELENT work!


If they did excellent work, we didn't need to have this discusion, ECM rebalancing with Apocrypha or AB bonus to AF currently on Sisi...





If there are such analysis, I haven't seen them(I have read 'almost' all pages here) in here. Could you provide me a link, please? Also, how much CCP is coming from those?


Minmatar has got very good AC ships in sub-BS sizes, I wonder how you want to justify a boost to those already powerfull ships like Rifter, Rupture, Hurricane, Sleipnir or Vagabond.


need to look in ships and modules forum. THe fix tempest and projectiles thread. An incredbly long thread that presented ALL of the changes CCP is using. ALL of them

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:26:00 - [1539]
 

Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2009 16:27:48
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Or you could just add another bloody turret to the tempest?

I think one of the best things about the tempest today is the spare two high slots.

For close range, an addition heavy drone gives you more close range dps than an additional turret hard-point (before damage mods).

Sniper wise, assuming you've increased the grid by 4000, i'd be supprised if there weren't boost the Maelstrom threads within days of that happening.

The Tempest needs to do stuff differently and for that to happen, it needs to get a tracking bonus with a single 7.5% damage OR rof bonus.


Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:28:00 - [1540]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 29/10/2009 16:41:29
Originally by: Caldor Mansi

Minmatar has got very good AC ships in sub-BS sizes, I wonder how you want to justify a boost to those already powerfull ships like Rifter, Rupture, Hurricane, Sleipnir or Vagabond.


This is why I'd rather see 11-9-6 Small, 22-18-12 Medium, 44-36-24 Large spread of damage, instead of the 12-8-5 proposed. True damage selection is more of a real damage increase than the 9-10% DPS boost originally proposed by Nozh.

12-8-5 means only the following ammo will be used: EMP, Fusion, PP, Barrage, and Tremor, and the stats are incredibly biased toward ACs, and overpowering at the Medium and Small levels.

11-9-6 means all of them are useful, none of them are overpowered, and the real damage increase comes from optimal damage selection and the massive increase in falloff. (Lose a point of Explosive in EMP. It needs focus to work.)

ED: And if Large ACs are still lacking, adjust their DPS up slightly. No reason to overpower the middle and small tiers. They're already getting touched.


Most people's eyes are getting red with bloodlust though, and the idea of being the new close range FoTM is just too tempting to keep heads clear. I'll take it and use if it comes, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone starting the new whine threads.

Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:33:00 - [1541]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Minmatar has got very good AC ships in sub-BS sizes, I wonder how you want to justify a boost to those already powerfull ships like Rifter, Rupture, Hurricane, Sleipnir or Vagabond.


The tiers were ****ed up and with this it would be better. I really can't see what is so revolutionary about these numbers, so I'll just wait and see, but a km or two of some ****ty falloff really does not intimidate me.

Secluse
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:45:00 - [1542]
 

A little more number crunching in medium ac's:

12-8-5 damage spread means I would always use 12, or T2. The tracking bonus doesn't offset the damage loss, and long range is just loldps.
Falloff by tier is massive, 425's is like having 3x ambit plus 5% for free
Having the increased base makes a huge incentive to drop the plate fits, fit LSE's, load up another 30-60% on TE's (100+ falloff combo) and use speed / agility to dictate range with good dps between 15-20km.

It's very competitive against lasers, but it makes hybrids look very sad. Not sure what my conclusion is, I swap between too much and just enough.

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:55:00 - [1543]
 

Edited by: To mare on 29/10/2009 16:55:56
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2009 16:27:48
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Or you could just add another bloody turret to the tempest?

I think one of the best things about the tempest today is the spare two high slots.

For close range, an addition heavy drone gives you more close range dps than an additional turret hard-point (before damage mods).

Sniper wise, assuming you've increased the grid by 4000, i'd be supprised if there weren't boost the Maelstrom threads within days of that happening.

The Tempest needs to do stuff differently and for that to happen, it needs to get a tracking bonus with a single 7.5% damage OR rof bonus.




the tempest bonus are fine, your change will be the final nerf on the ship cutting its already poor dps.
tracking on projectile is fine plus the tempest have 5 mids you can use the 5th for a double web or even a tracking computer with the same effect of a bonus to tracking.
want to make the tempest useful ? give it some agility/speed or a mass reduction.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:59:00 - [1544]
 

Originally by: To mare
the tempest bonus are fine, your change will be the final nerf on the ship cutting its already poor dps.
tracking on projectile is fine plus the tempest have 5 mids you can use the 5th for a double web or even a tracking computer with the same effect of a bonus to tracking.
want to make the tempest useful ? give it some agility/speed or a mass reduction.
So artillery tracking is fine all of a sudden? OK.

Using 2 bonuses to do the same thing is ******ed. It's part of the reason why the Tempest fails.

Oh, it should be a shield tanker too, but i'll beat that dead donkey some more later.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:10:00 - [1545]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 29/10/2009 17:10:55
Originally by: Secluse

12-8-5 damage spread means I would always use 12, or T2. The tracking bonus doesn't offset the damage loss, and long range is just loldps.


This is exactly what I'm worried about. I'd like to see, verbatim...

Ammo Changes - Base Values:

Long Range (1.6 range modifier - 6 damage - 5% tracking bonus):

Carbonized Lead - 5 kinetic / 1 explosive
Nuclear - 5 explosive / 1 kinetic
Proton - 4 em / 2 kinetic

Medium Range (1.0 range modifier - 9 damage - 20% tracking bonus):

Depleted Uranium - 4 thermal / 3 explosive / 2 kinetic (fine with Exp and Th flipping here)
Titanium Sabot - 7 kinetic / 2 explosive

Short Range (0.5 range modifier - 11 damage):

EMP - 9 em / 1 explosive / 1 kinetic
Phased Plasma - 9 thermal / 2 kinetic
Fusion - 9 explosive / 2 kinetic


Falloff is now:

S: 4000/4500/5000
M: 8000/9000/10000
L: 16000/18000/20000

5% DPS increase in Large ACs.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:15:00 - [1546]
 

Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2009 17:18:08
Originally by: Seriously Bored

This is exactly what I'm worried about. I'd like to see, verbatim...

Ammo Changes - Base Values:

Long Range (1.6 range modifier - 6 damage - 5% tracking bonus):

Carbonized Lead - 5 kinetic / 1 explosive
Nuclear - 5 explosive / 1 kinetic
Proton - 4 em / 2 kinetic

Medium Range (1.0 range modifier - 9 damage - 20% tracking bonus):

Depleted Uranium - 4 thermal / 3 explosive / 2 kinetic (fine with Exp and Th flipping here)
Titanium Sabot - 7 kinetic / 2 explosive

Short Range (0.5 range modifier - 11 damage):

EMP - 9 em / 1 explosive / 1 kinetic
Phased Plasma - 9 thermal / 2 kinetic
Fusion - 9 explosive / 2 kinetic


Falloff is now:

S: 4000/4500/5000
M: 8000/9000/10000
L: 16000/18000/20000

5% DPS increase in Large ACs.
Thats pretty good, except the 5% large AC DPS increase.

Endless Subversion
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:29:00 - [1547]
 

Liang, some mathlab graphs would be awesome.

Raw dmg boost + higher tier AC boost + dmg type boost leaves an incredible boost for ACs. I want to see large projectiles boosted and I love the ammo dmg and type changes, but I think the numbers are going to be pretty disturbing.

What I'd like to see:
1)T1 Armor vs battleship sized Pulse Boat(multi+scorch), Mael (fusion+barrage), Blaster Boat (anti+null)
2)T2 Shield vs battleship sized Pulse Boat(multi+scorch), Mael (fusion+barrage), Blaster Boat (anti+null)
3) BC graphs would be hot too (but I already feel like a **** asking for BS graphs =/)


Details

Resists
T1 Armor Resist Profile: manually average the racial resists or just remove that entirely so we can look at generic EANM/Plate BS
T1 Shield Resist Profile: Just base resists

Ammo
Fusion, EMP, Barrage vs Multi and Scorch vs Antimatter and Null

Ships
I'd compare Mael to Abaddon to Hype, but I'd be ok seeing Geddon or Mega in there too.

Fittings
3x Dmg Mods. 1x TE on Mael. Optional range TC on Hype. I realize most hypes dont run 3x MFS, maybe use mega?




Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:30:00 - [1548]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 29/10/2009 17:32:12
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Thats pretty good, except the 5% large AC DPS increase.


Danke. I'm sure the arguments would be over leaving it out entirely or picking a higher number, and it's honestly the part I'm most unsure about, so I chose something reasonable.

Doing the math on EHP VS the new ammo types is harder for me than just comparing straight up DPS...but it's large ACs that perform the worst, and should get the attention.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:41:00 - [1549]
 

Originally by: Seishi Maru

Balancing a game is not same thing as balancing 2 weights. There is more than transitivity and equality. There is the concept of having a role, being fun to use and enrich the game.

The choosen patch by CCP is the only correct one!


I don't know turrets like I know missiles, but even I know that projectiles are much weaker on the BS scale than the cruiser/frigate scale. So yeah, obviously they deserve a boost - hence my comment about tweaks. My concern is that the scale-independent boost being proposed will be such that it will leave hybrids looking pathetic, and deserving their own boost - which is bad balancing and the sort of power creep that we should be avoiding.

If one weapon system is much better than the other two, the answer isn't to boost the others, it's to nerf the one and damn the whiners. I'm very sympathetic to some sort of boost for projectiles, particularly on the BS scale, but using lasers and especially Scorch L as a model is not wise.

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:46:00 - [1550]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: To mare
the tempest bonus are fine, your change will be the final nerf on the ship cutting its already poor dps.
tracking on projectile is fine plus the tempest have 5 mids you can use the 5th for a double web or even a tracking computer with the same effect of a bonus to tracking.
want to make the tempest useful ? give it some agility/speed or a mass reduction.
So artillery tracking is fine all of a sudden? OK.

Using 2 bonuses to do the same thing is ******ed. It's part of the reason why the Tempest fails.

Oh, it should be a shield tanker too, but i'll beat that dead donkey some more later.

1st if you want to use arty you should use the mael, tempest can work too but if you care about arty tracking you waould be better changing the mael shield tanking bonus to a tracking bonus.
2nd if you give the tempest a 7.5% damage per level its dps will be really too weak and a alpha very close to the mael.
3rd if you give the tempest a 7.5 rof it will still have less dps than the current TQ pest and a really weak alpha which go against the purpose of using arty.

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:49:00 - [1551]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored

Doing the math on EHP VS the new ammo types is harder for me than just comparing straight up DPS...but it's large ACs that perform the worst, and should get the attention.


RF Fusion is doing about 29% more armor damage than Imperial Navy Multies on Abaddon with 2xEANM + 1x DC setup.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:53:00 - [1552]
 

Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2009 17:55:13
Originally by: To mare
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: To mare
the tempest bonus are fine, your change will be the final nerf on the ship cutting its already poor dps.
tracking on projectile is fine plus the tempest have 5 mids you can use the 5th for a double web or even a tracking computer with the same effect of a bonus to tracking.
want to make the tempest useful ? give it some agility/speed or a mass reduction.
So artillery tracking is fine all of a sudden? OK.

Using 2 bonuses to do the same thing is ******ed. It's part of the reason why the Tempest fails.

Oh, it should be a shield tanker too, but i'll beat that dead donkey some more later.

1st if you want to use arty you should use the mael, tempest can work too but if you care about arty tracking you waould be better changing the mael shield tanking bonus to a tracking bonus.
2nd if you give the tempest a 7.5% damage per level its dps will be really too weak and a alpha very close to the mael.
3rd if you give the tempest a 7.5 rof it will still have less dps than the current TQ pest and a really weak alpha which go against the purpose of using arty.
With the Alpha changes, a none damage bonused pest will still have 50% more alpha than current.

Difference is now that you have a choice...

37.5% more tracking on the Tempest (will be better against smaller stuff)
25% More alpha on the Maelstrom (which would be better against bs).

Sounds like a pretty balanced choice to me.

That combined with a drone bay/bandwidth increase and a new slot layout and suddenly, you have 2 ships with clear roles at both close and long ranges.

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:57:00 - [1553]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2009 16:27:48
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Or you could just add another bloody turret to the tempest?

I think one of the best things about the tempest today is the spare two high slots.

For close range, an addition heavy drone gives you more close range dps than an additional turret hard-point (before damage mods).

Sniper wise, assuming you've increased the grid by 4000, i'd be supprised if there weren't boost the Maelstrom threads within days of that happening.

The Tempest needs to do stuff differently and for that to happen, it needs to get a tracking bonus with a single 7.5% damage OR rof bonus.




If it gets another turret, who says you're not allowed to only fit 6? :P

The main difference between tempest and maelstrom is, the mael can fit a very good (although active) tank+gank, while the tempest can only fit either armor tank and damp cloth dps or a crappy shield buffer and gank. Thus I don't see the problem of tempest doing more damage than a mael does.

It will still lose against any bs in a 1v1, probably even in a 5v5, but will instead shine where dps/alpha strike and agility matter more than anything, i.e. sniper engagements and guerilla tactics. Roll in, kill stuff very fast, run away before it shoots at you, because if it does you'll likely die.

It will however, unless you completly redesign it and give it 7-8 lowslots or something, never replace the typhoon in rr gangs or the mael for solo/small gang (and by small gang i mean 2-3 people). It needs a niche, and that's exactly what it would get with another turret. Ridiculously high alpha with arty or ridiculously high dps with autos.

Now go read the ingame tempest description, tell me what it says. Yes, that's right, a versatile gunship proficient at long-range bombardment and capable of dishing out specialized types of damage with great effectiveness.

Why not make it just that?


Also giving the tempest a tracking bonus, coupled with current SiSi falloff boosts would mean people would just bring autocannon tempests over muninns as anti-support.

Currently tempest already does stuff differently, it is the only BS with double damage bonus. Except, with only 6 turrets it can't really use that to it's full potential. The only other combat bs with only 6 weapon slots is the raven, but torps do so much damage that raven, even with only 6 weapons, does more dps than most other battleships in the game.

Also as a rrbs, if it had another turret slot, that would be the same as adding another gyro or so in an armor configuration. It would still probably not be nearly as good as a megathron/typhoon up close thanks to the gimp dronebay, but it would be better at 20km+ where those two start losing their punch.

It would also be an alternative RRBS for low SP people like me, who don't have drones and missiles yet trained to an acceptable level. Not going to even go about the geddon here as it is and will probably forever stay the best rrbs.

As for your single 7.5% damage/rof suggestion, with only 6 turrets it'd become even more horrible as far as damage goes. Oh and please, never ever take the damage bonus away, even as it is the 10k alpha is barely significant in most situations.

And as for your drone suggestion, I hate drones. The interface is horrible, they have a huge delay before they start applying their damage, or if you use sentires you need to go back and scoop them in case your gang moved more than 1km or risk losing a huge chunk of dps. They also die to gateguns, they get smartbombed, they don't work at all in heavy lag. I much rather have a flight of valks and warriors to have a chance at killing off pesky frigs than 100m-125m dronebay of heavy drones that are useless in 90% of the situations I usually fight in. Why not have the tempest be the minmatar ship that doesn't *need* drones to be half-decent Confused

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:00:00 - [1554]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi

RF Fusion is doing about 29% more armor damage than Imperial Navy Multies on Abaddon with 2xEANM + 1x DC setup.


I'm sure the difference is extreme. But I have to ask, is that 29% less EHP you really mean? The difference is where DPS comes in. If a ship has 29% less EHP VS Fusion than it does against AN MF, but the lasers are doing 15% more DPS, the advantage isn't quite that large.

Which is the source of my mathematical difficulty. Laughing

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:08:00 - [1555]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored

I'm sure the difference is extreme. But I have to ask, is that 29% less EHP you really mean? The difference is where DPS comes in. If a ship has 29% less EHP VS Fusion than it does against AN MF, but the lasers are doing 15% more DPS, the advantage isn't quite that large.

Which is the source of my mathematical difficulty. Laughing


Yes, that is quite correct. Your AC damage will be x1.29 when comparing AC damage to lasers.

There is where most number warriors fail and why I have my own sheets to calculate what I need to know :-P.


To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:09:00 - [1556]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2009 17:55:13
Originally by: To mare
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: To mare
the tempest bonus are fine, your change will be the final nerf on the ship cutting its already poor dps.
tracking on projectile is fine plus the tempest have 5 mids you can use the 5th for a double web or even a tracking computer with the same effect of a bonus to tracking.
want to make the tempest useful ? give it some agility/speed or a mass reduction.
So artillery tracking is fine all of a sudden? OK.

Using 2 bonuses to do the same thing is ******ed. It's part of the reason why the Tempest fails.

Oh, it should be a shield tanker too, but i'll beat that dead donkey some more later.

1st if you want to use arty you should use the mael, tempest can work too but if you care about arty tracking you waould be better changing the mael shield tanking bonus to a tracking bonus.
2nd if you give the tempest a 7.5% damage per level its dps will be really too weak and a alpha very close to the mael.
3rd if you give the tempest a 7.5 rof it will still have less dps than the current TQ pest and a really weak alpha which go against the purpose of using arty.
With the Alpha changes, a none damage bonused pest will still have 50% more alpha than current.

Difference is now that you have a choice...

37.5% more tracking on the Tempest (will be better against smaller stuff)
25% More alpha on the Maelstrom (which would be better against bs).

Sounds like a pretty balanced choice to me.

That combined with a drone bay/bandwidth increase and a new slot layout and suddenly, you have 2 ships with clear roles at both close and long ranges.

except for the fact you ruin the ship for everything else

Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:30:00 - [1557]
 

this ac damage boost (excluding dmgtype change and falloff) ppls talking about the rebalanced ammo or wha? And how much is that? :O

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:39:00 - [1558]
 

Originally by: Uncle Smokey
this ac damage boost (excluding dmgtype change and falloff) ppls talking about the rebalanced ammo or wha? And how much is that? :O

there is no damage boost beside the ammo that got finally brought in line with the others only a range boost and people trolling

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:41:00 - [1559]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 29/10/2009 17:10:55
Originally by: Secluse

12-8-5 damage spread means I would always use 12, or T2. The tracking bonus doesn't offset the damage loss, and long range is just loldps.


This is exactly what I'm worried about. I'd like to see, verbatim...

Ammo Changes - Base Values:

Long Range (1.6 range modifier - 6 damage - 5% tracking bonus):

Carbonized Lead - 5 kinetic / 1 explosive
Nuclear - 5 explosive / 1 kinetic
Proton - 4 em / 2 kinetic

Medium Range (1.0 range modifier - 9 damage - 20% tracking bonus):

Depleted Uranium - 4 thermal / 3 explosive / 2 kinetic (fine with Exp and Th flipping here)
Titanium Sabot - 7 kinetic / 2 explosive

Short Range (0.5 range modifier - 11 damage):

EMP - 9 em / 1 explosive / 1 kinetic
Phased Plasma - 9 thermal / 2 kinetic
Fusion - 9 explosive / 2 kinetic


Falloff is now:

S: 4000/4500/5000
M: 8000/9000/10000
L: 16000/18000/20000

5% DPS increase in Large ACs.


This would be nice/sensible.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:00:00 - [1560]
 

Originally by: To mare
except for the fact you ruin the ship for everything else
I'm sorry, I forgot about all the other roles the Tempest was currently great at. Laughing


The Actual turret damage difference is just 2% less with a 37.5% rof bonus compared to double 25% bonuses and thats made up by the fact it's now a shield tanker and fit with 1-2 more gyro's, and an increased drone bay. See the link in my sig for graphs.

Otherwise, continue being rejects and asking for ******ed stuff like 7 double damaged bonused turrets *because drones are too hard to use*. Laughing


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