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Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:48:00 - [301]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

We will be keeping a close watch to what happens when this change hits tq Smile


Hi.
How about releasing a public statistic.

One before the change hits TQ, and one after the change. Data would include: Number of players, Number of Players in Player-Corps (Corps > 5 Members), Number of Players in NPC Corps, Number of Players in Player-Corps < 5 Members.

I would be very interested in theese and I believe quite a few other people from this and the two other threads aswell.

Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:48:00 - [302]
 

Edited by: Chip Flux on 24/09/2009 17:51:30
Go look at the petitions from CAS
See the battle we have going with the isk sellers?

And this is where it hurts them most, cos they prey on new players that know no better, we inform in no uncertain words

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:50:00 - [303]
 

Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 24/09/2009 17:51:37
Originally by: FilledWithCandy
My final rant for real this time.

If you want to charge us tax GIVE US SOMETHING FOR IT!


Yes, ranting is all you do ignoring every point.

You already got the something - wardec immunity. Just until now it was for free, that was fixed and now you have to pay...3-7% of your income.

FilledWithCandy
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:00:00 - [304]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 24/09/2009 17:51:37
Originally by: FilledWithCandy
My final rant for real this time.

If you want to charge us tax GIVE US SOMETHING FOR IT!


Yes, ranting is all you do ignoring every point.

You already got the something - wardec immunity. Just until now it was for free, that was fixed and now you have to pay...3-7% of your income.



War decs are not the only reason to be in an npc corp you can avoid war decs in a 1 man corp forever by disbanning and reforming a new corp, which if i continue in this game will likely be the solution i use new corp every day i bet thats going to be awesome for database performance.

and i haven't ignored any points that have come up pertaning to my concerns i have ignored all of the people who just say "suck it up you can't be wardec'd about time you pay for that"

No viable alternative has be offered, i have responded to the 1 persons point who came up with an alternative solution not just a complaint about someones grammar or thoughtlessness.

I have read the forum and understand the issue, as i read here its clear to me most of the people posting aren't the people who are affected by this but people who want to stick it to those who are


Anhur Shu
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:06:00 - [305]
 

OK, well first, an apology to Soundwave. I'm only trying to make a point by associating all Devs as ONE entity, in case you didn't get it.

Second, to Prism X, if that was an apology to all the REAL players in NPC corps paying to play your game, then apology accepted (I do have an alt in an NPC corp, in case you were wondering)...we hate RMT's too.

Now, moving to the real issue, what else is going to be done, as far as changes? There's going to have to be some other major changes, yes? Talking about the wardec system here.

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:20:00 - [306]
 

Originally by: FilledWithCandy

War decs are not the only reason to be in an npc corp you can avoid war decs in a 1 man corp forever by disbanning and reforming a new corp, which if i continue in this game will likely be the solution i use new corp every day i bet thats going to be awesome for database performance.


As far as I can say, you were ranting about being taxed and forced to certain type of gameplay not about taxes being avoidable.

Does that mean that once taxes are applied and avoiding wardec by creating 1 man corp fixed, you will be happy?


Originally by: FilledWithCandy

No viable alternative has be offered..


Alternative to...?




Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:23:00 - [307]
 

I have as much right to be in CAS as anyone does in any corp.

I farm, yes, I have farmed Faction for over three years
My wrecks I leave lying untouched in space
I seed systems, make them interesting and profitable for new salvagers.
I love flying your ships
I love Eve

But I will not be called second class
YOU GOT ME?
I am entitled to respect from you
The carebear stuff from players is expected.
dont tell me how to play
cos I won`t then

Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:54:00 - [308]
 

Originally by: FilledWithCandy
My final rant for real this time.

If you want to charge us tax GIVE US SOMETHING FOR IT!

if you want to go ahead and claim that the tax pays for the stations, gates and BS like that. Then charge tolls to those who are in private corps for using the facilities we pay for.

Give us jump clone rights in our corps stations, give us something dont just say "sorry your F*cked out 11% of your isk" with nothing to show for it.


I'm appalled i can't explain it any other way CCP and the other players need to just accept the fact that some people want to be left alone and not provide stupid punishments to incentive players to play the game the way YOU want us to play it.

whatever i'm done this sucks



Perhaps you forgot wardec immunity? Everything else you mentioned you are already getting the same as player corps, and that wont change. 11% seems a small price to pay to avoid losing everything to another corp.

FilledWithCandy
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:11:00 - [309]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Originally by: FilledWithCandy

War decs are not the only reason to be in an npc corp you can avoid war decs in a 1 man corp forever by disbanning and reforming a new corp, which if i continue in this game will likely be the solution i use new corp every day i bet thats going to be awesome for database performance.


As far as I can say, you were ranting about being taxed and forced to certain type of gameplay not about taxes being avoidable.

Does that mean that once taxes are applied and avoiding wardec by creating 1 man corp fixed, you will be happy?


Originally by: FilledWithCandy

No viable alternative has be offered..


Alternative to...?




Alternative way to motivate players to leave NPC corps, i don't think penalties are the way to do so, there should be a positive reinforcement a real reason to leave the NPC corp

my point is that this wont fix anything having players all move to 1 man corps simply creates a mess with no benefit to anyone.

what's next manditory ccp tax to all one man corps? wardecing individual players?

Avoiding war decs is one of the perks of the npc corp the biggest perk is the ability to kind of be invisible and just do your own thing without in game responsibilities.

My problem isn't with this one specific action entirely its the general attitude recently towards the npc corp carebear and how avoiding pvp should be a taxable offense.

the argument of player corps having a tax is moot players choose to join a corp with a tax rate they find acceptable. They base there decision not only on the rate of tax but benefits provided by the corp,

I find it almost offensive how all of you who aren't effected by this simply want casual players to make less money because we don't subscribe to your style of game play.. its unfair

all i'm saying is make the tax provide an actual benefit rather than just the "wardec immunity argument" or leave the carebears alone.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:25:00 - [310]
 

In regards to alternative ways of pushing player corporations,

Here are some:

Originally by: Julian Lynq
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Edited by: Daemonspirit on 24/09/2009 15:23:34
Eve needs an online data base of Corps currently recruiting. Bumpable weekly, no activity in 10 days automatically cancels the post.

And it needs to be part of the tutorial.

vOv thats my idea. Is my idea any more effective at making someone move who doesn't want to?ugh

edit: Sorry - "In game" database...Embarassed




This yes. And it needs an UI that makes it easy to compare them with each other based on different attributes like
Size, TimeZone, Type of Activity, VoiceComms etc. For example somone is looking for a small eu based pirate corporation based in wormhole space, he could just go and tick checkboxes in the ui and get the desired results.

Additionally a few other ideas to boost player corporations:

- Rework the corporation Logo-"Designer". It shows it´s age and the corp logo´s do too.
- If a corpmate tries to shoot another corpmate, make it consentual through a yes/no-dialog.
- Display their logo´s /name´s on the billboards
- Increase wardeccing costs (Make wardecs meaningfull)
- Based on some randomness and the decisions a new player made in the tutorials (For example which training courses he made)
suggest player corporations for him to join that fit his style of play.
- Allow CEO´s to record a small audio snipped (through eve voice code?) about their corporation and attach it to their ingame info.

Anima Aquinas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:27:00 - [311]
 

Edited by: Anima Aquinas on 24/09/2009 19:35:20
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert
Perhaps you forgot wardec immunity? Everything else you mentioned you are already getting the same as player corps, and that wont change. 11% seems a small price to pay to avoid losing everything to another corp.


most of the people posting against this change don't give a crap about the 11% (3-7% or whatever you want to justify it as) change, we are ****ed because it is stated this is introduced to "encourage" players into non-npc corps.

the Devblog says if it doesn't get the results they want they will up it, it is therefore not a tax to pay for concord or for wardec avoidance no matter how much people say it is.

If CCP had originally said "Yes the 11% tax is purely being introduced to compensate for wardec protection" then it would probably be fine, all this issue would have been avoided, PrismX wouldn't have unintentionally called all us carebears RMTers and EVE would be a happy family (as much as an MMO can be).

BUT...

CCP has stated this change is to encourage us towards player corps, 79% of the population has already decided they want to be in player corps, 21% of the population are either:

Alts of PVPers looking to make mission money for their main;
Alts of PVPers looking to scout/trade/run logistics';
People disillusioned with their last corp (inbetween corps);
RMT related macros;
Actual players who have no interest in PVP/Player corps;
People who are casual players who don't think they will be welcomed in corps (due to time constraints, etc);
People who are new to the game and haven't yet found a corp they want to join

trying to push any of these (except maybe the last two groups) is ultimately pointless as they are in an NPC corp for any number of reasons that this punitive tax doesn't fix.

We quite clearly don't like being told that the way we want to play the game is not good enough. this change may not be particularly bad (and i'm fine with paying for protection, its almost a little RP given the reasonably free environment we're given by CCP) but this is just the tip of an iceberg that will break the game for some players.

traditionally ****ing off your player base (not matter how small a group) isn't a step in the right direction.

**EDIT**
NPC corps are also inferior from Player corps because we:

Don't have corp agro
Don't have fleet agro
Can't have POS

But i would say the wardec immunity is fair enough recompense, i can't imagine what the noob gankers would do if NPC corps had fleet and corp agro.

Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:28:00 - [312]
 

this sort of thing is sense

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:38:00 - [313]
 

Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 24/09/2009 19:52:21
Originally by: FilledWithCandy

Alternative way to motivate players to leave NPC corps, i don't think penalties are the way to do so, there should be a positive reinforcement a real reason to leave the NPC corp

my point is that this wont fix anything having players all move to 1 man corps simply creates a mess with no benefit to anyone.

what's next manditory ccp tax to all one man corps? wardecing individual players?

Avoiding war decs is one of the perks of the npc corp the biggest perk is the ability to kind of be invisible and just do your own thing without in game responsibilities.

My problem isn't with this one specific action entirely its the general attitude recently towards the npc corp carebear and how avoiding pvp should be a taxable offense.

the argument of player corps having a tax is moot players choose to join a corp with a tax rate they find acceptable. They base there decision not only on the rate of tax but benefits provided by the corp,

I find it almost offensive how all of you who aren't effected by this simply want casual players to make less money because we don't subscribe to your style of game play.. its unfair

all i'm saying is make the tax provide an actual benefit rather than just the "wardec immunity argument" or leave the carebears alone.



EDIT:
Nevermind, I tried to defend the small bit of good that came out from this piece of fail but it is just not worthy...


Sri Nova
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:41:00 - [314]
 

The reason giving that the tax is to bring npc corps more in line with player corps is bull.

In a good player corp you get.
free access to bpo
access to pos
ship replacement
free skills
small loans and or donations
free items
highly increased income potential if the corp resides in 0.0
other small perks that vary from corp to corp.

downfall of player corp.

susceptible to war decs
if in 0.0 or low sec susceptible to ganking by red, blue or nuet.


In a NPC Corp
you get immunity to war dec.

downfall of npc corp.
almost the exact opposite of all the bonuses to player corps


and some how you feel the need to tax npc corps 11% because life is so good in these corps.

maybe you should boost npc corps a bit now that we are on supposed equal footing.

the real fact is that CCP has not provided enough tools to corp ceo's to get players out of NPC corps.

CCP has failed at their goal and is now exercising punitive actions to try and get their desired results.

which will also fail because this is a short sighted idea with no real thought process and has failed to address any of the legitimate concerns posted in any of the three threads about this.


why am i so bitter against this tax?
because i rarely if ever do missions i can not even do a lvl 3 yet or if i can i have no idea how to go about it. (because i do not care )

I do how ever rat and try and make several million a week .

but now i have to play about an extra hour to make up for this 11% loss .

and i do not have that kind of time . the game is already hard enough if you want to pvp and or make money in risky places with out the added cost of this tax burdening me even further.

and join a corp is not the answer as i am not active enough to be in a corp nor do i feel like bothering with the peeps in corps.

its just another way eve has become more like a job rather than a fun escape into another world.

keep it up CCP <biter sarcasm> because all i really want out of this game is more work and more greif </biter sarcasm>

Not to forget. the poor reason about realism . this pathetic attempt at adding more realism to this game is a slap in the face to those of us who would love to see actual attempts at more realism implemented .





Dakius
Posted - 2009.09.24 20:10:00 - [315]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Originally by: Ordais

Oh, btw, noone seems to mention the obvious, CCP doing this to get money out of the system...yes? Main motivation i think...


It really isn't, if we wanted it to be an isk sink it would have been a lot more than 11%. We picked 11% because it's only a few percent higher than the average tax in player corporations.

The relation to player corporations is important because we want to balance the NPC corporations vs player corporations a bit more, and ideally make it more tempting to join a player corporation than it is now.

We will be keeping a close watch to what happens when this change hits tq Smile


You picked 11% because almost every worthless player corporation has a 10% tax, coupled with the fact that you have no clue what you are doing. How is an 11% tax that applies to mission runners only going to get people out of the NPC corp? Not to mention that is only like 3% of a mission runner's income. This is nothing short of racism against mission runners in NPC corps. Miners, traders, inventors, and so forth all get left alone cause they are CCP Soundwave's lovechildren. NPC Mission runners are the new minority to be discriminated against. Everyone get your crosses and get ready to burn them outside the mission hubs...

By the way, I can see you are avoiding my post, CCP Soundwave. I know that my post on page 5 was very long and correct, but that doesn't mean you have to be afraid of it really...
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1183783&page=5

Since I myself am an NPC mission runner, when this change arrives I shall create my own 0 tax 1 man corporation. I'll be sure to name my 1 man corps every good name available so when I am wardecced and I hop, the name will become unavailable. I will laugh and soak up the carebear pvper tears as they lose 2 mil to my 1.6 mil without ever being able to shoot me. And in every corp description I will list that the corp is a tax evasion corp and how CCP Soundwave made all of this a reality. Maybe when there are no good names left, and everyone has to include numbers in their corp names, will you actually make the real changes needed which I posted on page 5 of this thread. Either way, I still won't be paying taxes or getting wardecced successfully. So let CCP Soundwave and his NPC mission runner hater clan in white pointy hoods come. Cool

Roland Thorne
Minmatar
Jian Products Engineering Group
Posted - 2009.09.24 20:28:00 - [316]
 

MMmm griefers lose isk for their efforts instead of being wardecced if they prove to be personally.... challenged lets say, and on the other hand have to spend effort and time with other people productively so they can keep their isk.

Sounds like a good start to me

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.09.24 22:31:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: Bomberlocks on 24/09/2009 22:32:53
Originally by: CCP Prism X


This change hardly means that no further changes will be made on NPC corps. Wink
It was just a low hanging fruit, involving little to no coding for me, with readily available data, for the designers to work with, so it was a no-brainer as a first choice. We have to be careful when we're messing with the NPE as your first days of income tend to matter. Thankfully L1s have such a horrendous ISK generation that I doubt either reward will be enough to break the tax bracket threshold (..wait.. is that good?!).

For my part, I had wet dreams about making it 100%.. cause I really dislike people farming ISK with immunity and intending to sell it through RMT. Thankfully they don't let draconian little me design stuff. Laughing
You know, you clowns at CCP are so goddamn obsessed with the farmers undercutting your profits that you will end up chasing away the n00bs and undercutting your profits.... If you were really creative, you'ld include the rmts and stop obsessing about it. As it is, the eve-isk numbnuts are back in hisec doing exactly what they did before. And you know why that is, Einstein? It's because you lot, who are trying to make a quick buck off fat, pudgy white males are fighting against another lot, who (wait for it...) are trying to do exactly the same thing.

Who do you think is going to win that one in the long run? You, or 30 000 poor Chinese people with more time on their hands than you and just as much skill.....?

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2009.09.24 22:35:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Clarifications of personal opinion...


I'd just like to take this opportunity to try and say thanks for the dev interaction. You're obviously posting without much of a PR filter, and personal opinions will get mixed in. Please don't be scared away from posting in the future, even if the one post of yours caused a lot of drama in this thread.

And before I get crucified for being an anti-carebear/blind CCP fanboy, I think this NPC corp tax is ridiculous and you'll have the database littered with one man/alt corps, as well as trying to punitively change playstyles (leading to less social interaction with the one man corps) is a bad thing.

But lets not hate on Prism too much :)


Enkidu Uruksen
Wakizashi Renaissance
Posted - 2009.09.24 23:45:00 - [319]
 

I'm seldom in an NPC corp, but this strikes me as another case where CCP sees people playing wrong with the toys in the sandbox.

Excuse me? What's that about a sandbox again? Who says I can't use my [ship/corp/gun/hangar] this way?

Oh, it's *your* sandbox. I get it.


Zarlis
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.25 03:55:00 - [320]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur
one feature which we plan to implement early next year as a direct follow-up to the new Sovereignty system is the introduction of Treaties. Without going into too much detail, Treaties will be a fully functional mechanic that formalises many of the agreements already in game. The plan is to give alliances the tools to ‘rent' out areas of their space to other alliances or corporations

Originally by: CCP Abathur
The idea is that some areas of space are obviously considered of less worth than others and always have been. This is going to change. YOU are going to change it. Through the investment of time, money and effort at all levels, an alliance will be able to directly affect the value of and develop the space they hold. This will consist of things as simple as investing in improvements that allow your members to discover new riches in systems long thought barren and useless.

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
11% is our starting estimate. If it turns out that this number is too low and the changes do not have the impact we hope, it can always be adjusted to a higher level. Right now though, we are hoping 11% will provide the balance we are looking for.

Originally by: CCP Prism X
This change hardly means that no further changes will be made on NPC corps. Wink
It was just a low hanging fruit, involving little to no coding for me, with readily available data, for the designers to work with, so it was a no-brainer as a first choice.


I would save your breath complaining about 11%. CCP wants to move the alliances away from relying on moon goo to fund themselves and plan to have them actually do something to upgrade their space.
Of course the concept of "investment of time, money and effort at all levels" left our friends in 0.0 scratching their heads as who precisely was going to be doing this investing, particularly the time and effort part and CCP not wanting to drop their lovely concept for a new expansion had to cast their eye around for this "someone".

And guess what Mr Happily Minding your own Business NPC corp dweller, CCP has decided that someone is YOU. As per CCP Prism X post expect many more "incentive programs" until you are all productive member of Cannon Fodder Space Improvement Corp for your chosen alliance. Very Happy

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.25 05:09:00 - [321]
 

I honestly dont care what they intend. I play eve because its a game- its not my job. I want no part in null corps. And a player corp in high sec- well they are carebears with another goal really. Many ppl do not play eve just to grief others. Some ppl play eve for the pve content only. Take that away and see if retention suffers. If i, or others, want to avoid war deks- then we will. Cpts in player corps do the same thing everyday. Tell me again "only" npc corps have wardek immunity- the idea is ridiculous.

I am not against the tax because it is a huge amount. I am against the tax because it is levied against a play style. It will be 11% harder for npc mission runners to accumulate the funds for plexes, for ships, and for mods.

Im absolutely positive a good number of npc mission runners will form 1 man corps. I am just as positive that if you were in a player corp and they charged a 11% tax with no benifits- you would leave it too.

Stop pretending npc corps have benefits you in player corps dont. The immunity npc corps have can be duplicated by corp hopping. Player corps also enjoy the protections of concord- they just dont pay for it.

Roland Thorne
Minmatar
Jian Products Engineering Group
Posted - 2009.09.25 05:46:00 - [322]
 

I love reading reasonable, intelligent people even if they are wrong. Makes my day.

Many people see highsec as safe, but no. Its 0.0 thats truly safe, because that is the only place where a man can try harder and make himself safer in eve, even make his own set of rules. Highsec is full of other rules that make it so griefers can do things right in from of me, steal something I've worked for and fly away just because they don't have aggression with me, and just because of that fact I can't touch them without losing more of what I got. Most of the professional griefers are not part of a player-owned corp because of these protections - thats a fact. So I was greatly enjoying reading several of the last posters throwing a head-bolt and threatening Dev members of things they are going to do in eve, not that that amounts for much.

Believe me, the npc members who truely want to find a way around this, will. All power to them. Most I'm sure will reorganize into some great corps. I've seen many in highsec who are in npc corps who day by day gang together and do stuff, roam in lowsec for kicks, etc. Reorganizing will be a good thing, and it will pull other new players in to learn new things and make eve better, and so I don't see anything but good from this.

The griefers will be forced into a position where they may have to watch themselves a little more instead of feeling so invincible, or pay more costs.

The people who are in npc corps because they don't know any better, or because their friends are there: nows the time for new leaders to start doing some crazy ****, or start some new, cool pve corps.

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.25 06:16:00 - [323]
 

Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 25/09/2009 06:55:50
Originally by: FilledWithCandy
Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 24/09/2009 17:51:37
Originally by: FilledWithCandy
My final rant for real this time.

If you want to charge us tax GIVE US SOMETHING FOR IT!


Yes, ranting is all you do ignoring every point.

You already got the something - wardec immunity. Just until now it was for free, that was fixed and now you have to pay...3-7% of your income.



War decs are not the only reason to be in an npc corp you can avoid war decs in a 1 man corp forever by disbanning and reforming a new corp, which if i continue in this game will likely be the solution i use new corp every day i bet thats going to be awesome for database performance.

and i haven't ignored any points that have come up pertaning to my concerns i have ignored all of the people who just say "suck it up you can't be wardec'd about time you pay for that"

No viable alternative has be offered, i have responded to the 1 persons point who came up with an alternative solution not just a complaint about someones grammar or thoughtlessness.

I have read the forum and understand the issue, as i read here its clear to me most of the people posting aren't the people who are affected by this but people who want to stick it to those who are




Realy ? Just a question, why still stand you in a NPC corp, if just one reason the wardeck immunity what you give from NPC corp ? Oh no...... you cant tell me one other reason why not leave the NPC corp.
You got wardeck immunity for free, but will be change this and you will be pay for it.


Other things for CCP devs.
Gentlemans! You try to move the NPC corp members to move to player corp direction and to low/0.0 sec.
But wont happen, because 60%-70% of high sec NPC corp people an 0.0 alt. Main characters live in 0.0 and their alts make money in empire. They want wardeck immunity (for safe freighter runs,AFK agents with dominix... etc.)and the eleven percentile taxes won't interest them. Their alts cry here, but they knows the game, just don't want this tax because they need more agent time for PLEX and for other stuffs, when main cant make money in 0.0.
But it's too low tax for them for leaving NPC corp. Higher up it would be necessary to cut for the older players
Need more aggressive solution to push into player corp.

I said the best solution if 6 months character must to leave NPC corp, that's better than all other ideas.

Who reach 6 months active time in game, maybe need move to FW corp with this slogen "The empire/republic etc need you" If the player dont wanna fight in FW, must move to player corp. (This is just an alternate idea, will be into other gatherer corp too)

The weaker solution, tax changes for old players:
1-3 months players just pay 0% tax.
3-6 months players just pay 11% tax.
6-12 months players just pay 25% tax.
Over 12 months players just pay 50% tax.
(Over 24 months players just pay 75% tax.)

And other thing need to change, revision the 1 man corp evase from wardec. When someone evade 5th times from wardec with create other corp use 1 week ban, when he repeat this exploit use permaban.
Simple like 1x1.

something somethingdark
Posted - 2009.09.25 06:30:00 - [324]
 

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit


Realy ? Just a question, why still stand you in a NPC corp, if just one reason the wardeck immunity what you give from NPC corp ? Oh no...... you cant tell me one other reason why not leave the NPC corp.
You got wardeck immunity for free, but will be change this and you will be pay for it.


Other things for CCP devs.
Gentlemans! You try to move the NPC corp members to move to player corp direction and to low/0.0 sec.
But wont happen, because 60%-70% of high sec NPC corp people an 0.0 alt. Main characters live in 0.0 and their alts make money in empire. They want wardeck immunity (for safe freighter runs,AFK agents with dominix... etc.)and the eleven percentile taxes won't interest them. It's too low tax for them for leaving NPC corp.
Need more aggressive solution to push into player corp.

I said the best solution if 6 months character must to leave NPC corp, that's better than all other ideas.
Who reach 6 months active time in game, move to FW corp with this slogen "The empire/republic etc need you" If the player dont wanna fight in FW, must move to player corp.
And other thing need to change, revision the 1 man corp evase from wardec. When someone evade 5th times from wardec with create other corp use 1 week ban, when he repeat this exploit use permaban.
Simple like 1x1.


While your analysis is prety much correct your solution is full of **** frankly. This is a game for more people, with diffrent playstyles, its not just for you alone and everybody is here to please you.
If you want a true solution to people hiding in npc corps/1 man corps your thoughts should not simply revolve arround "but how does wardec hurrrr durr"
they should be
how would this change improve the game, how do i ecourage people to join player corps and immerse themselves more in this game, how ...

i hope you get it

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.25 06:46:00 - [325]
 

Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 25/09/2009 06:47:37
Originally by: something somethingdark
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit


Realy ? Just a question, why still stand you in a NPC corp, if just one reason the wardeck immunity what you give from NPC corp ? Oh no...... you cant tell me one other reason why not leave the NPC corp.
You got wardeck immunity for free, but will be change this and you will be pay for it.


Other things for CCP devs.
Gentlemans! You try to move the NPC corp members to move to player corp direction and to low/0.0 sec.
But wont happen, because 60%-70% of high sec NPC corp people an 0.0 alt. Main characters live in 0.0 and their alts make money in empire. They want wardeck immunity (for safe freighter runs,AFK agents with dominix... etc.)and the eleven percentile taxes won't interest them. It's too low tax for them for leaving NPC corp.
Need more aggressive solution to push into player corp.

I said the best solution if 6 months character must to leave NPC corp, that's better than all other ideas.
Who reach 6 months active time in game, move to FW corp with this slogen "The empire/republic etc need you" If the player dont wanna fight in FW, must move to player corp.
And other thing need to change, revision the 1 man corp evase from wardec. When someone evade 5th times from wardec with create other corp use 1 week ban, when he repeat this exploit use permaban.
Simple like 1x1.


While your analysis is prety much correct your solution is full of **** frankly. This is a game for more people, with diffrent playstyles, its not just for you alone and everybody is here to please you.
If you want a true solution to people hiding in npc corps/1 man corps your thoughts should not simply revolve arround "but how does wardec hurrrr durr"
they should be
how would this change improve the game, how do i ecourage people to join player corps and immerse themselves more in this game, how ...

i hope you get it


You know the game ? You can surrender too against wardec, but that's not exploit and cheat like "i'm leave corp and create other one, but the senders lose their wardec price.
Cheat is cheat, use an exploit or cheat contravention of EULA and game rules.
"I" hope you get it!

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.25 07:12:00 - [326]
 

Edited by: Future Mutant on 25/09/2009 07:16:29
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

I said the best solution if 6 months character must to leave NPC corp, that's better than all other ideas.

Who reach 6 months active time in game, maybe need move to FW corp with this slogen "The empire/republic etc need you" If the player dont wanna fight in FW, must move to player corp. (This is just an alternate idea, will be into other gatherer corp too)

The weaker solution, tax changes for old players:
1-3 months players just pay 0% tax.
3-6 months players just pay 11% tax.
6-12 months players just pay 25% tax.
Over 12 months players just pay 50% tax.
(Over 24 months players just pay 75% tax.)

And other thing need to change, revision the 1 man corp evase from wardec. When someone evade 5th times from wardec with create other corp use 1 week ban, when he repeat this exploit use permaban.
Simple like 1x1.


I LOVE your idea- we go from ccp simply discriminating against a play style to your suggestion of faction warfare- which would make someone KOS. Now instead of a small part of eve being walled off from a player- we get to exclude ppl from 1/4 of empire space.

Truly well thought out- bravo!
And btw- its not an exploit to leave a corp to avoid a war dek- and it never will be. No company in the world is going to be stupid enough to turn down money- and carebears pay a monthly fee just like pvp'ers.

But yes keep up the illusion that somehow you will get to grief ppl who have no choice. We will continue to avoid your war deks- have fun paying them for nothing. We will wave to you from our other one man corp- feel free to war dek that one too.

edit to say- i hope ccp gets it, their tax is discriminatory and tbh- utterly useless as its easily avoided.

Hun Jakuza
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2009.09.25 07:46:00 - [327]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
blabla


Please just tell the truth.
You are a 0.0 player who make money with alt.
So better if you dont tell something from other playstyle.
You just try to find a back-door. But this game not need to backdoors,tricks,exploits,cheats etc.
So who telling something from backdoors is good, he is wrong.

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.09.25 08:04:00 - [328]
 

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

Realy ? Just a question, why still stand you in a NPC corp, if just one reason the wardeck immunity what you give from NPC corp ? Oh no...... you cant tell me one other reason why not leave the NPC corp.


It is not about (not) having reasons to stay in NPC corp, it about having no reason to join player corp and play with other people.

This change is doing absolutely nothing in terms of people wanting to play with others.

No matter how high the tax is, it does not motivate anyone to join player corps, it only drives people to avoid the tax via 1 man corp.

Hun Jakuza
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2009.09.25 08:20:00 - [329]
 

Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 25/09/2009 08:23:29
Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

Realy ? Just a question, why still stand you in a NPC corp, if just one reason the wardeck immunity what you give from NPC corp ? Oh no...... you cant tell me one other reason why not leave the NPC corp.


It is not about (not) having reasons to stay in NPC corp, it about having no reason to join player corp and play with other people.

This change is doing absolutely nothing in terms of people wanting to play with others.

No matter how high the tax is, it does not motivate anyone to join player corps, it only drives people to avoid the tax via 1 man corp.



Mega fail.
First:
You can play in own corp too, no one want to change for you, how you play with others. If you want to play alone stay in one man corp. (This is not equal with evade wardecs)
If you want to play with others invite in corp them.
Second: You can increase or decrease the tax in own corp.
You dont need to buy office. So you just wrote something reason for free wardec immunity.
Own corp give for players more freedom, (Own POS,Own Offices,0% tax after changes too and other nice things) but only one thing not garantee for corp members, just one thing, that's it the war immunity. So, who cying for tax just crying for war immunity for free. Adapt or die, but dont cry.

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.09.25 08:53:00 - [330]
 

Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Mega fail.
First:
You can play in own corp too, no one want to change for you, how you play with others. If you want to play alone stay in one man corp. (This is not equal with evade wardecs)
If you want to play with others invite in corp them.
Second: You can increase or decrease the tax in own corp.
You dont need to buy office. So you just wrote something reason for free wardec immunity.
Own corp give for players more freedom, (Own POS,Own Offices,0% tax after changes too and other nice things) but only one thing not garantee for corp members, just one thing, that's it the war immunity. So, who cying for tax just crying for war immunity for free. Adapt or die, but dont cry.


Reading comprehension is obviously not your friend...


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