open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked Undocumented Change ? NPC CORP TAX: 11% ?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 ... : last (14)

Author Topic

coeathal vega
Gallente
Northmoor Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.20 09:30:00 - [211]
 

Long time coming, well done CCP.

Also it should be higher than 11%, more like 30% and then increasing as time goes by.

F'uhk Mi
Posted - 2009.09.20 09:39:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Urgg Boolean
My experiences in 0.0 have introduced me to players who are not only sociopathic, but psychopaths who spew the sickest form of dialog that I have only seen matched by my most violent patients...

Shocked ROFL!

Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2009.09.20 09:47:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Veldya on 20/09/2009 09:49:38
Edited by: Veldya on 20/09/2009 09:48:53
Originally by: wickedpheonix
Guys, this isn't an RMT issue. The whole point of high sec and NPC corps is that they are newbie territory.


Show one shred of evidence to suggest this is the intent or the case, nowhere is it stated or implied that NPC corps or Empire territory are there just for the noobs. NPC corps are there for people who do not have a player corp. Something like 90% of EVE's playerbase live in Empire, out of all the vastness of low-sec and nullsec space, it accounts for a dim minority of the playerbase. Ask yourself why and it will give you hints to why people are still in NPC corps.

I prefer to be in 0.0 Alliances but to be in good ones requires a pretty heavy time investment and heavy commitment, the last corp I was in was in major conflicts for all but about 3 weeks out of 9 months, it is a huge resource requirement, both of time and of isk. I don't have the time or the isk atm.

When I am in Empire, the plan is to build up the wallet. Nothing a player corp can offer in Empire will help in any way and npc corp taxes will just make the dull and boring part of EVE 11% longer for those in NPC corps.

I can just sit in my own alt corp but I enjoy the channels to chat, some of them are pretty funny, and don't mind helping the noobs with advice during times I am in npc corps. It is very easy to get around the changes and to play with the level of risk that exists in Empire, it just comes with additional hassle, it seems an unnecessary hassle.

If you REALLY want people to join player corps, just get rid of Concord and make players under 5m SP undamagable by other players (just prevent them from locking any player over 5m SP, so no invulnerable remote reppers). You will then see real PvP in Empire with no bull**** restrictions.

That would make Empire fun and interesting but EVE will probably lose a significant chunk of the userbase.

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2009.09.20 10:32:00 - [214]
 

So when do we get tax on mined/refined Ore?
When do we get tax on traded/hauled stuff?
When do we get tax on owned value of starbase cargo?
When do we get tax on stolen/griffed stuff?
When do we get jail for kills in CONCORD controled (LOLOLOL) regions?

What does CONCORD give us back for the tex the will get with this change?
Will CONCORD try to bring us back the lost stuff when a Pirate stoll our mission loot (most important the stuff we need to finish the mission!!)?
Will CONCORD punish the one, who steal our stuff?

Can't player who did not pay this tax still use all the NPC benefits (ak station services)?
If yes - WHY ?

CCP, this tax is the absolut wrong way to bring player into privat Corps.
And you just hit one type of player - non alt Mission runners.

And you (again) favor all form of criminal activitis as remote-rep alts, grif-alts (scan frig in highsec) and so on are all not effected. Hell you even open new forms of grif like creat corp, get mission runner, wardec as soon as enough are in. This way you even know where they are and don't need to scan/hunt them anymore.

This tax is a pur fail!

Mikayla Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.20 10:38:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Jack Jombardo

What does CONCORD give us back for the tex the will get with this change?



Immunity from wardecs and a near immunity from pvp in any form isnt enough?

Ticarus Hellbrandt
Posted - 2009.09.20 10:41:00 - [216]
 

The npc tax should be more, far to many mission farming carebears hide out in npc corps, afraid of the world. Isk farming mission runners also hide in npc corps.

The number of carebear tears in this thread is astounding, it is about time ccp did something to nerf these mission farmers.

Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.20 11:06:00 - [217]
 

Afraid?
I am not afraid
Give me a ring and I will slug it out with you
I expect your brave corp will need be nearby though

Qing Jao
Caldari
Immortal Armada
Core Factor
Posted - 2009.09.20 11:15:00 - [218]
 

12.5 sounds perfect

Slobby Jobby
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2009.09.20 11:55:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

It's not in the sisi patch notes because I don't know how to edit them, I think I have to mail them to someone who has access to it and then it is edited in. This hsn't been properly set up yet but for the next sisi update I think there will be more and more accurate notes ( at least from me)

It's a change meant to encourage people to join a player corporation and ofcourse concord needs to pay wages to their pilots on a regular basis


Oh we came to 11% after researching what the average tax was in player corporations, the NPC tax is a little bit above that average.



And how do you deal with this?


1) Have 1 man corp alt accepting missions.
2) NPC corp missioneer does the job
3) 1 man corp alt takes the rewards with 0% tax.



This is exactly right. This change seems a bit silly to me because it's so easy to get around. It'll just be a tax on noobs, not professional high-sec mission runners.

Also, I've been in a one-man corp and wardecs just aren't an issue if you're not drawing too much attention to yourself. There's really just no point in trying to gank a one-man corp.


Jonathaniuz
Minmatar
DOCS RUFF RIDERS
Posted - 2009.09.20 12:03:00 - [220]
 

tax given to npc:s must be the most stupid idea ever.

If theres to much missioning isk then reduce it from the source instead of taking some of it back in "tax".

Using tax to encourage people to leave npc corporations is just uncreative.

Its a sandbox game, add more stuff you cant do solo instead, inspireing people to join together and perhaps start a corp down the line.

Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.20 12:20:00 - [221]
 

Increase corp creation to 100 mill. and alliance creation to 5 bill. please.

Carl Mauser
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.20 12:29:00 - [222]
 

How come people who doesn't work for CCP at all, tell other people what they have to do? What gives them the right to declare "this is the way the game was meant"? Shouldn't they be more interested in features that support their interest in lowsec?

CCP should reckon at least one thing. All the hatred spilled in this thread, the spitting and kicking against people in Hisec come obviously from Lowsec guys - which aren't affected at all beeing in Player corps. What gives people that much energy to support a feature, which doesn't affect them at all? Jealousy, Grudge or simply antisocial behaviour?

It's a notable tendency that CCP either ignores, or mildly supports this form of player harassment. Think of Hisec Ganks, Canbaiting, Can Stealing, Ninja Looting or Stealing mission items. Most every MMORPG so far has clear rules and borders to protect players interests regarding PVE and PVP. IF CCP want to change EVEs game content from a Sandbox to an PVPonly concept, they should anounce officially. I'm not going to further spend money for a game that goes against my player interest and support people who are unable to accept others opinion and motivations.

Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.20 12:48:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: Nyota Sol on 20/09/2009 12:48:22
Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 19/09/2009 18:00:21
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Obviously eve would survive, but it WOULD have less subscribers...

To repeat!

Do you know how many times this argument has been made when CCP propose changes? Probably EVERY single time!


Do you know how many times MMO developers made huge, unnecessary changes to "make the players play differently" and lost tons of players?

This isn't a normal change.

Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.20 12:54:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Jonathaniuz
tax given to npc:s must be the most stupid idea ever.

If theres to much missioning isk then reduce it from the source instead of taking some of it back in "tax".

Using tax to encourage people to leave npc corporations is just uncreative.

Its a sandbox game, add more stuff you cant do solo instead, inspireing people to join together and perhaps start a corp down the line.


yes, another person of sound mind. Very Happy

If they want to shift people away from missioning, then you do that by ADDING features to the game and IMPROVING viability of other activities. Not by taxing basic mechanics that have existed for years. Not by punishing players in the sandbox who are doing fundamental options that have been in the game for years. This is nothing more than a petty ideological attack on NPC corps which fits their rhetoric along these lines all summer. Somebody at CCP needs to challenge this mentality a bit.

CCP... use your brains. This won't accomplish your stated intention.

Improve ratting. Improve mining. Improve all the half-baked pve content you've rolled out but never finished. You'll see this type of taxation isnt needed.

Heck... make militias more viable for new players.


Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.20 13:15:00 - [225]
 

Ccp should consider dropping this change.

A good game designer will notice when an Idea doesn´t work out as planned and then scrap it. This is what makes Blizzard successfull. They may work on a game for 3 years and then they notice its crap and just throw it in the bin.

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2009.09.20 13:45:00 - [226]
 

Eve has the advantage of CCP doing what they think it needs whether we want it or not, they do listen to us and if we provide good solid logical reasons that outway the reasons they intend implament something they usually listen. CCP has done plenty of things I didn't like, they nerfed my falcon but really considering it now I can see it for the better as it could jam from further than most dedicated sniper ships could fire.

As long as they implament what the game needs to be better then it doesn't matter how much we all complain, and do not forget something like the NPC corp tax will not be a game breaker and if it is not working out they can always remove it.

Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
Posted - 2009.09.20 13:51:00 - [227]
 

lol

So, what exactly is this going to change? Those that can't be bothered will stay and make a little less isk. The rest will just create 1-man corps.

2 days after release:

Player announcements:

Tranquility's back end server crashed today because several players created their own corp. Over 80k player corps where created, and more attempts where made until we finally had to shut the server down in fear of loosing data. It will take at least a month to recover from this crash. Apologies for any inconveinience.

PS: No game time will be refunded as a result of this crash. If we did refund any game time, we'd go bust.

WTS: 1-man corp with 0% tax Idea

Dungheap
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.09.20 13:55:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Ticarus Hellbrandt
The npc tax should be more, far to many mission farming carebears hide out in npc corps, afraid of the world. Isk farming mission runners also hide in npc corps.

The number of carebear tears in this thread is astounding, it is about time ccp did something to nerf these mission farmers.


wow, so much hate and ignorance condensed into a few lines. how do you explain your presence over 2 yrs in npc corp ?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.09.20 13:57:00 - [229]
 

Quote:

If they want to shift people away from missioning, then you do that by ADDING features to the game and IMPROVING viability of other activities.



They cannot improve the other activities, because they are just fine as is.
Missioning is long known to yield to disproportionate profits, it's why every single time CCP makes an expansion or adds a new feature, there's always and only 1 voice: "lol this new feature is useless it yields less than L4 farming".

If every single feature in game is either riskier or worse profit, then the one sticking out needs nerf.

And I say this having 2 missioning characters and 2 alts farmed so that I can mission both for empire and 0.0 pirate factions with no standing screwups on the real missioning characters.

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.09.20 13:59:00 - [230]
 

EVE is like Prime Arkonor, and current CCP Devs are like noobs with no refining skills hellbent on refining it anyway instead of leaving it alone until they know what they're doing. Go mine Veldspar (fix bugs) you noobs!

If you want to charge a CONCORD tax, then it should be an optional charge like insurance or clones and applied to EVERYBODY who wants CONCORD to blow up people who aggress them in hi-sec.

If it's about fairness: I have never mewled in forums about removing t2 bpo's from the game or removing insurance for ships blown up by CONCORD from the game or having CONCORD pod folks with -10 sec status who stroll through hi-sec with impunity while I get pulled over for having a few slaves in my hold. I haven't complained because that's how the game was when I arrived and changing it would have a significant detrimental impact on someone else's playstyle. Same principle applies here.

Stop griefing noob corps CCP! GTFO my sandbox!

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.09.20 14:28:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 20/09/2009 14:29:01
Originally by: Slobby Jobby
Originally by: Vareah Varokha
And how do you deal with this?


1) Have 1 man corp alt accepting missions.
2) NPC corp missioneer does the job
3) 1 man corp alt takes the rewards with 0% tax.


This is exactly right. This change seems a bit silly to me because it's so easy to get around. It'll just be a tax on noobs, not professional high-sec mission runners.

Also, I've been in a one-man corp and wardecs just aren't an issue if you're not drawing too much attention to yourself. There's really just no point in trying to gank a one-man corp.

For being carebears you are surprisingly clueless. Bounties for the NPC corp missioner is still subject to tax (which is the large part of the missionrunners income), in addition to the cost of an extra account, unless you enjoy relogging every 15 minutes.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.09.20 14:56:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 20/09/2009 14:29:01
Originally by: Slobby Jobby
Originally by: Vareah Varokha
And how do you deal with this?


1) Have 1 man corp alt accepting missions.
2) NPC corp missioneer does the job
3) 1 man corp alt takes the rewards with 0% tax.


This is exactly right. This change seems a bit silly to me because it's so easy to get around. It'll just be a tax on noobs, not professional high-sec mission runners.

Also, I've been in a one-man corp and wardecs just aren't an issue if you're not drawing too much attention to yourself. There's really just no point in trying to gank a one-man corp.

For being carebears you are surprisingly clueless. Bounties for the NPC corp missioner is still subject to tax (which is the large part of the missionrunners income), in addition to the cost of an extra account, unless you enjoy relogging every 15 minutes.


1) It's a well known fact that in EvE you are much better with 2 (or more accounts), many have them. Farm some money, buy a PLEX and you can have your cyno alt / freigther alt / low sec + 0.0 scout alt / trader alt / industry alt

2) The one statistics over many missions ever posted Link, show bounties as overall 27% of the total missions income. Taxing that, brings the tax on the alt down to just 2.97%.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:51:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
2) The one statistics over many missions ever posted Link, show bounties as overall 27% of the total missions income. Taxing that, brings the tax on the alt down to just 2.97%.

Thanks for reading! I'm glad you found it useful Very Happy

The figure you quote is actually slightly outdated (there are a couple of updates later in that thread, duly referenced at the bottom of the first post).

Bounties account for 24% of mission income, and monetary rewards for 7% (which are also taxable). This is a total of 31% taxable income, which would translate the 11% into an overall tax percentage of 3.41% if you run missions like I do (which is killing/looting/salvaging everything).

Note that loot is calculated on the basis of mineral value, so if selling valuable named items by themselves (as I do, but I CBA to calc it), that part will be slightly higher, thus taxable percentage slightly lower.

humilityAmarr1lstesson
Posted - 2009.09.20 18:37:00 - [234]
 

I want to say something derogatory but I’ll just bump this Razz

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2009.09.20 18:43:00 - [235]
 

this is a great, great change

make it a bit more though

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2009.09.20 19:12:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: syphurous
Who's going to mentor the new players in the NPC corps ? Who's going to give them their first taste of PvP. Explain the mechanics they face every day, and help them find their way ? Help them find a place for them in the greater scheme of things.

They accomplish this the same way I did back in 2006. I spent my first 20 days in an NPC corp. People need to read the friggen forums and ask questions (not everyone is an *******). They then need to do a little research and join a player run corporation that they think will work for them. And they need to pay attention to what is explained to them. Just because CCP wants people to get out of NPC corporations it does not mean the sky is falling.

chaosjj
Posted - 2009.09.20 20:43:00 - [237]
 

this is a bad idea, there are lots of people including myself who want to be independent, of player corperations, i've had nothing more than bad experiance with player corp's, and now getting money as a independant pilot is getting harder.
thanks alotEvil or Very Mad

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.20 22:17:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 20/09/2009 22:17:24
Originally by: chaosjj
this is a bad idea, there are lots of people including myself who want to be independent, of player corperations, i've had nothing more than bad experiance with player corp's, and now getting money as a independant pilot is getting harder.
thanks alotEvil or Very Mad

It's actually not going to be that much harder. Just create a 1-man corp, and if it gets wardec'ed, disband it (takes 1 second after you found the button), and create another one. There is no 24-hour waiting period as when you leave a corp. It'll cost you a minor amount of ISK, but it is less than what the wardec costs Twisted Evil

What you DO lose out of by this change is the social interaction you may have with other people in your NPC corp, but I guess social interaction is not that important for CCP to have in their MMO....

Plenty of people are happy about the social interaction they get from the NPC corp, but will now get punished for it.... Go figure, because I can't see the logic in that...

These players are ALREADY in a corp that suits them... Their corp management doesn't scam them, they're free from a type of 'interaction' (getting shot at) that is not what they want, and the social stuff that goes on in the NPC corp are in many cases better than what goes on in player-run corp.

I can only explain this by CCP not having a clue about which type of players are in the NPC corp and why they're there....

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.21 01:05:00 - [239]
 

look at all the shrieking hysterical little NPC corp babbies in this thread.

But yeah, 11% isn't going to encourage anybody to move, bump it to 20-25% and then maybe we'll be getting somewhere. Alternatively, a progressive income tax where players pay a varied percentage according to their earnings might help shift the hardcore farmers without penalising the genuine newcomers too harshly.

Argo Nix
Ars Technica
Posted - 2009.09.21 01:51:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
look at all the shrieking hysterical little NPC corp babbies in this thread.

But yeah, 11% isn't going to encourage anybody to move, bump it to 20-25% and then maybe we'll be getting somewhere. Alternatively, a progressive income tax where players pay a varied percentage according to their earnings might help shift the hardcore farmers without penalising the genuine newcomers too harshly.


It shocks me whenever I hear a sensible suggestion from a Goon, but there it is (of course he couldn't make it without injecting some of the famous Goonie vitriol first).

I agree that progressive tax based on earnings or, as I have seen suggested elsewhere, a progression based on time in corp/age of character would be a better incentive.


Pages: first : previous : ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 ... : last (14)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only