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Gran Frondre
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:04:00 - [31]
 

print 'Hello, page 2.'

ceaon
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:04:00 - [32]
 

Quote:
rogue packs of orcas

mention on DEV blog Laughing EPIC Laughing

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:04:00 - [33]
 

Request topic change to 'Hello, New Eden'

Razz

Volir
Space Bushido
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:05:00 - [34]
 

If that diagram is in any way accurate this new system is easily gamed by timezones.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:08:00 - [35]
 

omgomgomg... <3

Good thing it's on fridays. I'll have a chance to be there since I'm away during the week.

Keep those DevBlogs comming.


Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:10:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Letifer Deus on 16/09/2009 22:09:49
Quote:
the duration of the supercapital test, estimated to be a 48 hour period.


So for 48 hrs, devs are going to be around handing out supercaps or what?

Le Dentiste
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:17:00 - [37]
 

With the 495m SP character handout too?

ropnes
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:18:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: ropnes on 16/09/2009 22:19:24
Umm, is it fine to test other stuff ? D:
I want to try some things out when I have all level V


Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:18:00 - [39]
 

Oooh. Flowchart. Pretty flowchart.

Wollari
Phoenix Industries
Wicked Nation
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:22:00 - [40]
 

Nice Devblog and Really interesting concept. I've a few questions.

1) How tough are the Claim markers. Who many ships do you need to destroy them.
2) Will System Upgrades makes those Claim Markers harder to kill?

and most important for me as EveMaps enthusiast:

3) What kind of data will be available via API (public and private)?

Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:23:00 - [41]
 

What's wrong with the 12 hour timer?

Attackers: If they can't maintain a presence in a system for 12 hours they shouldn't be able to get it anyway.
Defenders: If someone leaves their entire empire open for attack during 12 whole hours they shouldn't have it anyway.

Even if all defenders are in the same time zone, given that a normal person sleeps 8 hours each night, that should mean 4 hours where the defenders are able to mount a resonably large fleet. What are you complaining about?

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:25:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 16/09/2009 22:09:49
Quote:
the duration of the supercapital test, estimated to be a 48 hour period.


So for 48 hrs, devs are going to be around handing out supercaps or what?


Oneiromancer hinted that they might hack the not seeded stuff into the Redeem system on Sisi, so you can basically spawn that stuff via the ESC menu.

Let's just hope the login queue won't reach Armageddon Day levels.

teji
Ars ex Discordia
Here Be Dragons
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:30:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Daedalus II
What's wrong with the 12 hour timer?

Attackers: If they can't maintain a presence in a system for 12 hours they shouldn't be able to get it anyway.
Defenders: If someone leaves their entire empire open for attack during 12 whole hours they shouldn't have it anyway.

Even if all defenders are in the same time zone, given that a normal person sleeps 8 hours each night, that should mean 4 hours where the defenders are able to mount a resonably large fleet. What are you complaining about?


Nice troll bro

MoonsOverMyHammy
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:32:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Daedalus II
What's wrong with the 12 hour timer?

Attackers: If they can't maintain a presence in a system for 12 hours they shouldn't be able to get it anyway.
Defenders: If someone leaves their entire empire open for attack during 12 whole hours they shouldn't have it anyway.

Even if all defenders are in the same time zone, given that a normal person sleeps 8 hours each night, that should mean 4 hours where the defenders are able to mount a resonably large fleet. What are you complaining about?
r u unemployed?

Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:35:00 - [45]
 

Will supercaps be provided before the test so those of us with the skills already can test them some more?

Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:43:00 - [46]
 

I love the devblogs and the flow chart, and hello to CCP Weirdfish.

Right so you anchor the claim marker and if it's still there 24 hours later Sov is yours (which leads to Pi - I like spreadsheets more than cake).

In order to lose it, the hostiles/renters will have to plant a module 'disruptor field' and keep it alive for twelve hours which makes the claim marker vulnerable to attack - before this however it's not. Seems simple enough, and I'm not going to ask questions that can change after testing or even overnight, like hp and m3 size, but I will ask two questions.

Will claim markers and disruptor fields bpo's be seeded on the market?

Will you be able to anchor them anywhere at all in the system and, wether you're limited to a moon/planet/gate will they appear on the overview for everyone and their Orca of doom to warp in and try to take it out/defend it?

Alliances that want 0.0 access should be able to cover the entire 23 hour game day. If you're trying to defend twenty systems you'll need the man power to do it as well, although in most regions there's choke points a-plenty which could be focused on instead.

I like the direction it's going in, there'll be work-arounds of course and if these modules can be anchored anywhere it could mean going in with a smaller force will be harder to probe down, just depends on the actual points on the modules and the ship you need to carry a few AS WELL AS getting your own marker through as well!

I hope I'll be able to get to the test servers for the fun and games.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:51:00 - [47]
 

It's been a long time since I laughed as hard as when I clicked the 'super capitals' link RazzRazzRazz

Malen Nenokal
The Nightshift
Posted - 2009.09.16 23:01:00 - [48]
 

So many dev blogs! <3

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2009.09.16 23:02:00 - [49]
 

The cake is a lie! Twisted Evil

Pherusa Plumosa
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.09.16 23:22:00 - [50]
 

Ok, this mechanic removes pos grinding, but I don't see, how the main problem, the blobfare is changed in any way by this new mechanics.

there have been so many cool ideas with borders and stuff that adds more tactical depths. what happened to them? you basically just redirect the blob from POSes to claim markers.

sov warfare atm: call blob, shoot pos
sov warfare dominion: call blob, shoot markers

just makes sov warfare a bit faster, but not more interesting.

another question: I guess, every alliance can anchor only one disruptor fields. so it makes even more sense to bring all your friends and spamm disruptor fields, so that the defender has to grind disruptor fields.

BenjaminBarker
Posted - 2009.09.16 23:27:00 - [51]
 

Since they've been pretty clear that claiming Sov will require dreads - wtf?

How many alliances out there actually have 24 hour cap fleet coverage? All it takes is an alarm clock op and you lose a new claim marker. Or worse, try to take space from someone in another timezone. They'll always be active when you're not. If the enemy can just choose to engage in your off hours, they'll probably be able to bring the fleet to do it, but there is no way you can defend it.

How about making it invulnerable for the first 24 hours and add stront before starting to set it's final timer. It has to take 24 hours, but you can add up to an additional 24 hours with stront. That way the anchoring alliance sets the time of the fight, and actually has a chance to defend the new structure.

Not a big fan of the 12 hour timer either. Think it'd be better if you kept fuel in the marker after it's online to determine the duration of a disruptor.

This system seems to favor who ever is on the offensive. It feels like it'll be too easy to drop sov, and too hard to pick up sov.


JuicyCakes
UK Corp
Posted - 2009.09.16 23:27:00 - [52]
 

I like the direction CCP is going for. Make alliances more focus and use less space instead the current situation where they occupy large swaths of mostly unused territory.

An important question, however, is how will the current system be transitioned to the proposed system?

Spartan dax
Posted - 2009.09.16 23:47:00 - [53]
 

Meh, how is this system actually different in terms of gameplay compared to our current one? Oh sure it's just two objects in space that needs to be defended/attacked but they might as well be called poses for all I care. We'll still see uberblobs showing up for these occasions.

And here I was hoping for a more activity based sovereignty determined system where ratting, mining, plexing and manufacturing etc, you know, stuff that requires people to actually be present in a system on a daily basis to count towards sov.
That sov would degrade naturally over time when people weren't using the system guaranteing afk empires to vanish and making vast excursions of your alliance for a prolonged period of time impossible if you wanted to keep your old space.

This flowchart looks in essence like the system we have, just a bit faster. If our next sov system can't differentiate between deep pockets enabling vast vacant empires and the busy alliance working their space everyday it's just not worth having.

Darkdood
Posted - 2009.09.17 00:01:00 - [54]
 

I'm sure we are missing other parts of the whole picture but it does seem allot like sov is the same basic system. Its just shifted to these markers rather than POS's and speeded up a bit. I fail to see how this helps small alliances. Even if a large alliance doesn't hold and pay for sov over X set system they can still wage a short but effective blob campaign to prevent other people from taking that sov.

Plz tell me there is more to this???

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.17 00:12:00 - [55]
 

So, instead of having to spend a few hours shooting towers, with the ability to do a few at a time, we get to spend 12 hours guarding the disruptor, and not paying attention to it even for a short time would mean that it has to be started all over again...The current system is bad, but that's worse.

Naku Moontear
Posted - 2009.09.17 00:15:00 - [56]
 

Nice Blog and ideas. Also I'm glad there is no Dust in it ^^

I think 12h is way to short. Make it 24h or better 36h+.
There is no need that an Alliance can set the timer, the marker can be destroyed all the time anyway.

Intersting would be the anchor/online time as the HP of the Marker.

btw, how much dmg do the Fighter-Bombers ?


TeRata
Posted - 2009.09.17 00:17:00 - [57]
 

Seems like fun - Also seems like initial testing of basic mechanics. Is everyone forgetting that later features will see improvements being able to be built in the systems, perhaps for better defense etc. But don't forget theres only 1 week of testing so perhaps some of these timers have also been shortened for this experience.

Can't wait to see what improvements can be made in a system you have Sov in.Very Happy

ShadowMaster
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.17 00:24:00 - [58]
 

Every one needs to keep in mind that this is a part of how to conquer a system. Remember Dust 514? CCP has stated before, on multiple occasions, that they intend on having more options in how you conquer a system. What they are testing here is clearly just part of the system. Fairly certain that if it was the WHOLE sov system they would have had a dev blog dedicated just for it, not a section of one. Please calm down... wait, nvm asking internet people to calm down is pointless.

Anyways, yea, more to the sov system. They gave us all the information we need to test this part of the system. Most of your questions, are probably the same questions CCP has (how disruptors can an alliance place?) and is why they want to have a 5 day testing of the system.

Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2009.09.17 00:28:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: MoonsOverMyHammy
Originally by: Daedalus II
*snip* ...
Even if all defenders are in the same time zone, given that a normal person sleeps 8 hours each night, that should mean 4 hours where the defenders are able to mount a resonably large fleet. What are you complaining about?
r u unemployed?


He sells his ISK to buy speed so he can sit in front of eve the entire 16 hours he's awake?

...

On a more serious note, i would have to say...

Depending on the time it takes to set up a disruptor/kill it and the time it takes to set up a claim flag/kill it. The process of killing sov for someone would take 13 to 14 hours. (In the best case scenario)
I will just assume that the average player spends 8 hours sleeping, 3 hours putting on clothes/cooking/eating/toilet breaks/traveling to work and 9 hours at work. That's 18 hours of the day spent on Reality. Add some family time to that or whatnot and the average player would maybe spend 3 hours a day on playing the game.
Now, with that generalization out of the way, lets assume the current alliances that are from the same timezone play EvE between 8pm and 11pm each day. This means they have that 3 hour window where they can retaliate and claim space.

The current sov mechanic makes it so that it takes at least a week to get sov, right? This basically means (if i am right) that one alliance trying to take sov from another alliance of the same timezone is forced to overpower the defenders since they play at the same time. While on the other hand, alliances that are not of the same timezone will have trouble defending against their attacker effectively. Even IF they have 24 hours or a week to do anything about it.

So my first point is, it doesn't really matter how long the takedown and set-up times are. Players usually follow their schedule.

The second problem is that making the timer too short makes it possible to just throw sov around like golfballs on the golf course. That is, if the timer is less than 6 hours it is possible for any alliance, same timezone or not, to just switch off sov on a daily basis.
And if you make it too long, we are back at the "grind" situation, it just happens to be that there is no more pos bashing for hours on end. You simply wait for your stuff to take effect. Let me emphasize on the "waiting for" part here... If you place 5 disruptors in a system and simply leave hoping that not a single soul will bother killing them off... Well... You are out of luck! That means you will have to have someone maintain your offensive effort, in this case, for 12 hours straight!
If CCP where to lengthen this time, you would also have to maintain your offensive assault for that time to actually make something happen. I don't know that many players who would be willing to keep that up for longer than a few hours.

My second point is therefore, Sov change has to be quick enough to fit inside 2 days work (weekend of takedown and claiming your own) which is the case with CCP's suggestion. Otherwise it becomes a grind/blobfest.

...

Finally, if your alliance is dead set on having the same timezone members and friends then i don't think you will make it in the new system. Sorry... :(

There are three major game timezone in eve...
  • US - Spans 7 hours in 4 timezones (10 to 11 hours including Hawaii, alaska and the easternmost parts)

  • Europe - 6 hours over 3 timezones

  • The rest - 13 to 14 hours over 10 timezones (including china that is... Rolling Eyes )

That is 31 effective gameplay hours over the 24 hour cycle.

...

Make sure your alliance can cover at least 50% of these timezones and you are good to go. US/Europe is a good mix really!

In short, ADAPT OR DIE

Also, make sure you test this in SISI before deciding whether this is really a crappy setting or not. And for this one time, keep an open mind about it.
If you couldn't change the timers. What would you change to make it work? Be constructive!

Professor Dumbledore
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.09.17 00:28:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: ShadowMaster
Every one needs to keep in mind that this is a part of how to conquer a system. Remember Dust 514? CCP has stated before, on multiple occasions, that they intend on having more options in how you conquer a system. What they are testing here is clearly just part of the system. Fairly certain that if it was the WHOLE sov system they would have had a dev blog dedicated just for it, not a section of one. Please calm down... wait, nvm asking internet people to calm down is pointless.

Anyways, yea, more to the sov system. They gave us all the information we need to test this part of the system. Most of your questions, are probably the same questions CCP has (how disruptors can an alliance place?) and is why they want to have a 5 day testing of the system.


Yes please let another game interface with this game and then determine though a magical set of numebers something in this game? what you think that's a ****ing great idea?


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