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Rose Nuke
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:03:00 - [451]
 

so now we will have something that does the same as a carrier just takes a little longer to kill wow so worth the price, hmmm not sure?

As far as the titan changes go its not a nerf i think it more overpowered than it was before most large aliences can field nearly double figure titans that will own other cap fleet.

Suboran
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:14:00 - [452]
 

This change seems to sum up ccp at this moment, ccp doesnt know where it is coming from or going.

The ccp devs seem to be fiddling around with conceptual ideas 2 weeks before the patch is supposed to go live. From what I have seen and read, dominion should be renamed disapointment.

The game is in a dire state of economical turmoil it seems and ccp devs are still banding radical changes, buff motherships one week and nerf them the next. It is incredibly poor from a company that I once had absolute faith in after abandoning the dabacle of SWG, however it all seems to head tha\t way with patch after patch of bad improvements.

SAVE OUR MOTHERSHIPS AND TURN THE GAME AROUND!

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:33:00 - [453]
 

Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 12/11/2009 18:36:20
I feel the need to give my opinion due to the amount of whining I see here and on alliance forums.

As I see it, a 6 billion ISK ship would rock if it could do 2-3x Dreadnoughts DPS while moving, have assignable fighters when not using fighter bombers, a Hitpoint buffer surpassed only by titans, Immunity to EWAR, and massive logistics capability. The inability to dock is obvious with the station mechanics playing a role for sovereignty and a massive HP buffer ship as it would be impossible to kill playing station games.

I'm not a Wyvern pilot yet (Just a lowly Chimera/Phoenix pilot) but have been considering it for some time. These changes not only increase the liklihood I will one day be one, but at the same time the liklihood I'll actually use it on the battlefield instead of fly around like a pu$$y like most MOM pilots.

Not trying to be a troll, just calling it how I see it.

Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:41:00 - [454]
 

and that is why you sir would loose it to the first hictor that decided to point you up :)

not trollin, just sayin

Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:45:00 - [455]
 

I have never in my life seen or heard of a capital ship that qualified as a "moving target".

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:45:00 - [456]
 

If I lose it to the first HIC pilot that points me, I have no business flying the ship in the first place. Large Energy Neutralizers, Drones/Fighters, and hopefully some support should clear out the HIC's with points on me quick enough. This is status quo whether your flying a standard capital ship or a super capital ship.

Even as it is, my Chimera/Phoenix are deployed in capital ship fleets with support... Why would I behave any differently in a Supercarrier?

Or is the ranting from solo-Supercarrier pilots?

Supreme Feather
The Hyperfine Network
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:03:00 - [457]
 

What exactly does the 'Super' stand for again CCP? Rolling Eyes

This ain't working one bit..


Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:06:00 - [458]
 

Edited by: Sarah Norbulk on 12/11/2009 19:06:06
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
If I lose it to the first HIC pilot that points me, I have no business flying the ship in the first place. Large Energy Neutralizers, Drones/Fighters, and hopefully some support should clear out the HIC's with points on me quick enough. This is status quo whether your flying a standard capital ship or a super capital ship.

Even as it is, my Chimera/Phoenix are deployed in capital ship fleets with support... Why would I behave any differently in a Supercarrier?

Or is the ranting from solo-Supercarrier pilots?


If you want more DPS than a dread your gonna have to sacrifice all your highs for DCUs. That's rights. Neuts, smartbombs, RR can't be fit if you actually want to be effective. If you do fit utility slots your better off flying a dread. It's a lose/lose. There is no reason to fly this ship over a carrier or dread now.

Edit: typo

R0ze
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:10:00 - [459]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 12/11/2009 16:17:46
Another seriouspost: What on earth is going on in your dev environment when you assign a team of random devs to re-do the already completed/settled work of a previous team?

The primary reason why the nullsec playerbase is even vaguely considering the Dominion sov changes in a positive light is because the known architects of the design was /one of us/. Someone we know understands the game and all the things that can go wrong with it. When Soundwave or Abathur mouth off about sov, we can at least know that they understand where we're coming from.

Similarly: the supercapital changes were, until now, designed by someone who flew the damn things extensively, logged many hours pvping in them, and lost a titan to boot. Abathur has cred on supercapital changes. Who are you, Nozh? How many hours have you logged in a supercap? Where does your team's credibility on these new, unasked-for supercapital changes come from?

Leave nullsec and capital changes to devs who actually have some shred of credibility/experience in design.


Quoting from other thread..

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:19:00 - [460]
 

Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 12/11/2009 19:20:59
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Edited by: Sarah Norbulk on 12/11/2009 19:06:06
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
If I lose it to the first HIC pilot that points me, I have no business flying the ship in the first place. Large Energy Neutralizers, Drones/Fighters, and hopefully some support should clear out the HIC's with points on me quick enough. This is status quo whether your flying a standard capital ship or a super capital ship.

Even as it is, my Chimera/Phoenix are deployed in capital ship fleets with support... Why would I behave any differently in a Supercarrier?

Or is the ranting from solo-Supercarrier pilots?


If you want more DPS than a dread your gonna have to sacrifice all your highs for DCUs. That's rights. Neuts, smartbombs, RR can't be fit if you actually want to be effective. If you do fit utility slots your better off flying a dread. It's a lose/lose. There is no reason to fly this ship over a carrier or dread now.

Edit: typo


Numbers are incorect. Assuming Nozh is correct, 2x Dreadnought damage with DCU's for non Nyx, 3x Dreadnought damage on Nyx.

Without DCU's, should still be higher by about 50% over a seiged dreadnought.

Del Girl
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:19:00 - [461]
 

**** over the old players, give head to the new players.

How nice, thanks CCP.

Del

the plague
Anthraxus Defense Laboratories
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:25:00 - [462]
 

Edited by: the plague on 12/11/2009 19:31:43
What a waste.

Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:27:00 - [463]
 

Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 12/11/2009 19:20:59
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Edited by: Sarah Norbulk on 12/11/2009 19:06:06
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
If I lose it to the first HIC pilot that points me, I have no business flying the ship in the first place. Large Energy Neutralizers, Drones/Fighters, and hopefully some support should clear out the HIC's with points on me quick enough. This is status quo whether your flying a standard capital ship or a super capital ship.

Even as it is, my Chimera/Phoenix are deployed in capital ship fleets with support... Why would I behave any differently in a Supercarrier?

Or is the ranting from solo-Supercarrier pilots?


If you want more DPS than a dread your gonna have to sacrifice all your highs for DCUs. That's rights. Neuts, smartbombs, RR can't be fit if you actually want to be effective. If you do fit utility slots your better off flying a dread. It's a lose/lose. There is no reason to fly this ship over a carrier or dread now.

Edit: typo


Numbers are incorect. Assuming Nozh is correct, 2x Dreadnought damage with DCU's for non Nyx, 3x Dreadnought damage on Nyx.

Without DCU's, should still be higher by about 50% over a seiged dreadnought.


Nag can get 4800 DPS currently in siege, all Moms minus the Nyx will have 5k DPS from 10 fighter bombers. No sane pilot will fit 5 DCUs to his Mom as its stupid and suicidal. So your stuck with 2-700 DPS advantage minus the Nyx which'll have an additional 1100 DPS. Comparing viable dread fits to nonviable Mom fits isn't a fair example of DPS.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:53:00 - [464]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/11/2009 19:53:24
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 12/11/2009 19:20:59
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Edited by: Sarah Norbulk on 12/11/2009 19:06:06
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
If I lose it to the first HIC pilot that points me, I have no business flying the ship in the first place. Large Energy Neutralizers, Drones/Fighters, and hopefully some support should clear out the HIC's with points on me quick enough. This is status quo whether your flying a standard capital ship or a super capital ship.

Even as it is, my Chimera/Phoenix are deployed in capital ship fleets with support... Why would I behave any differently in a Supercarrier?

Or is the ranting from solo-Supercarrier pilots?


If you want more DPS than a dread your gonna have to sacrifice all your highs for DCUs. That's rights. Neuts, smartbombs, RR can't be fit if you actually want to be effective. If you do fit utility slots your better off flying a dread. It's a lose/lose. There is no reason to fly this ship over a carrier or dread now.

Edit: typo


Numbers are incorect. Assuming Nozh is correct, 2x Dreadnought damage with DCU's for non Nyx, 3x Dreadnought damage on Nyx.

Without DCU's, should still be higher by about 50% over a seiged dreadnought.


Nag can get 4800 DPS currently in siege, all Moms minus the Nyx will have 5k DPS from 10 fighter bombers. No sane pilot will fit 5 DCUs to his Mom as its stupid and suicidal. So your stuck with 2-700 DPS advantage minus the Nyx which'll have an additional 1100 DPS. Comparing viable dread fits to nonviable Mom fits isn't a fair example of DPS.


I'm not arguing at all, but I have to ask this.

Considering the new price point, the hit point buffer available, and the dynamics of how the fighter/bomber damage works, why would you not leverage the extra damage potential of a DCU fit and rely heavily on carriers for logistics support?

Maximizing a more flexible and effective damage delivery system, and taking advantage of its huge buffer doesn't seem to be a stupid tactical decision... especially as they are far cheaper if lost and they would presumably make up a larger percentage of your fleet (at that price point)than we see currently.

Again, just asking (because its easy to only think in terms of tactics that work/don't work currently as opposed to what "would" work under revised circumstances).

Dregek
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.12 20:08:00 - [465]
 

**IDEA**

Scrap dominion and start. this is quite honestly going to be the worst expansion ever ugh

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2009.11.12 20:14:00 - [466]
 


Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.12 20:29:00 - [467]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/11/2009 19:53:24
Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar

Originally by: Sarah Norbulk
Edited by: Sarah Norbulk on 12/11/2009 19:06:06








I'm not arguing at all, but I have to ask this.

Considering the new price point, the hit point buffer available, and the dynamics of how the fighter/bomber damage works, why would you not leverage the extra damage potential of a DCU fit and rely heavily on carriers for logistics support?

Maximizing a more flexible and effective damage delivery system, and taking advantage of its huge buffer doesn't seem to be a stupid tactical decision... especially as they are far cheaper if lost and they would presumably make up a larger percentage of your fleet (at that price point)than we see currently.

Again, just asking (because its easy to only think in terms of tactics that work/don't work currently as opposed to what "would" work under revised circumstances).



The main issue comes down to a) is it worth 3-4 times the price of a dread (or 6-8 times the cost of a carrier) and not be dockable. That's 9b isk for a parking alt and effectively $15 dollars a month(even if it is payed for by isk) for a ship that may be marginally better than a dread.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.12 20:39:00 - [468]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/11/2009 20:39:59
Thanks for the reply, and that is an understandable point of view. At the very least if this change comes through then the ability to dock (or have a docking ring on an Outpost) should be implemented at the same time.

The monetary hit to current Mothership owners is an issue too of course. Perhaps if they gave each current owner a half dozen by way of compensation. Very Happy



Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.12 20:49:00 - [469]
 

Edited by: Sarah Norbulk on 12/11/2009 20:49:48
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/11/2009 20:39:59
Thanks for the reply, and that is an understandable point of view. At the very least if this change comes through then the ability to dock (or have a docking ring on an Outpost) should be implemented at the same time.

The monetary hit to current Mothership owners is an issue too of course. Perhaps if they gave each current owner a half dozen by way of compensation. Very Happy





I think if those changes were implemented that the reaction would be a lot less severe. Unfortunately, the current response from CCP was **** you if you already bought it before the patch and you'll still need another account to hold it for you.

Edit: I think another issue of why this was so poorly recieved was the way CCP tried to sweep it under the rug.

Thaeus
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.11.12 20:56:00 - [470]
 

Edited by: Thaeus on 12/11/2009 20:56:15
Yeah, two weeks before deployment they drop this MAJOR change without even hinting at it before. Most people were REALLY excited about the new changes coming to motherships: buffer, figther bombers, and the ability to field a ship that will actually be FEARED! Now it's like that RMS Video where mom is the Nidhouggur coming out of the POS array sneezing a piddly ass 10 drones and getting laughed at.

Murixo
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:01:00 - [471]
 

Awful, awful changes. But I'm not going to sell, instead:

Pre-Patch

1) Unfit expensive mods
2) Warp to gate
3) Self-destruct
4) Get insurance

Post-Patch

5) Build a new one for 5b



Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:29:00 - [472]
 

There is absolutely no reason to buy a super carrier now. What next? Remove 6 turret slots from the mega?

Lyshah
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:37:00 - [473]
 

Kinda makes one wonder YET AGAIN if whoever makes the decisions at CCP actually plays the game or has any common sense whatsoever ughRolling Eyes

tikki
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:38:00 - [474]
 

1. not happy at just reducing value of property people have alreay invested in....I didn't buy a house on a flood plain!

2. Give the super carrier a purpose. Currently it has none. You changes make no sense. imo super caps should be set out as titan is "super" offensive weapon, super carrier is "super" support. Give jump portal to the mom, this at least makes some sense to me.

Whatever you do...don't do what your planning currently!

Rafina Kalare
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:50:00 - [475]
 

this must be joke right ?

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:53:00 - [476]
 

theres also the little problem that fighterbombers wont do full damage to a sieged dread

Serena Ku
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:57:00 - [477]
 

Originally by: Dregek
**IDEA**

Scrap dominion and start. this is quite honestly going to be the worst expansion ever ugh


Nah, the moons got a nice graphical boost. Can spin around in POS looking at them pretty moons. Cool

Shigsy
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.12 22:02:00 - [478]
 


Kalissa
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.11.12 22:16:00 - [479]
 

I'm not happy about the changes CCP are making to the motherships here, whats being added with the hit point buffer and fighter bombers does not in my opinion mitigate what's been removed. However if CCP do want to go down this road I would say a good way of making the Mothership more viable for people would be to do the decent thing and make them dockable. They are little more than carrier now with a couple of tricks they can do that a carrier can't.

Do the decent thing CCP let us dock those ships.

Mundem Pashdale
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.12 22:26:00 - [480]
 

Originally by: Kalissa
I'm not happy about the changes CCP are making to the motherships here, whats being added with the hit point buffer and fighter bombers does not in my opinion mitigate what's been removed. However if CCP do want to go down this road I would say a good way of making the Mothership more viable for people would be to do the decent thing and make them dockable. They are little more than carrier now with a couple of tricks they can do that a carrier can't.

Do the decent thing CCP let us dock those ships.


A fair point. If you wish (CCP) to remove the extra drones and drop the price, assuming the intention is to make a new form of capital specialised in anti-cap warfare, it would make sence to dock them

The earlier changes with the removal of certain mods but the retention of the damage bonuses... well, I could live with not docking. Now it seems to make no more sence then banning a jump frieghter from docking up to be honest

Prehaps (specualation) CCP will re-introduce a mothership vessel in a similar form to the original (big, fairly versatile befor they where superseeded by large cap fleets), but so far this all seems somewhat poorly explained and unwanted by most people who use these ships

Also...

Hi Kalissa o/


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