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CCP Abathur


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:19:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: CCP Abathur on 17/09/2009 09:39:49

Please use this thread to discuss all things Supercarrier related. Bear in mind that the numbers on the test server are subject to (and probably will) change more than once in the coming weeks. We wanted to get this information out sooner rather than later to ensure time for proper feedback and balancing.

There will be special events announced soon with regard to testing these ships. I will update this post once those announcements are made.

UPDATE - Here is the blog announcing the testing of everything.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:38:00 - [2]
 

oh hey

first here too

no one reads this area dude Confused

supercarrier is a dumb name btw

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:51:00 - [3]
 

Yeah lets start with the name.

Mothership -> Fleet Carrier (or Flagship)
Carrier -> Escort Carrier

Will post on the numbers and experiences once its on sisi!

Auden Sky
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:55:00 - [4]
 

I don't have a problem with the term supercarrier. Seems like a good traditional name.

(quickie google): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercarrier

fairimear
Gallente
The Sp00Ks
Posted - 2009.09.16 20:22:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: fairimear on 16/09/2009 20:23:32
Out rolled by multiple dreads now.
fighter bombers are a good move.

IMO supercapital's need a balance to hic's.
3 hic's would be a fair infi scramble.
on a mothership or titan.

1 hic point should give a 2min count down till warp scramble ends.

2. 4min

3. then gives you the perma lockdown well all maintained.

Anyless makes any change pointless.


Btw bubbles should give a 2min scram. to give time for hics to arrive to take over.

manasi
Caldari
Ceptacemia
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.09.16 20:59:00 - [6]
 

No problem with the name either. There is so much going into this next...expansion, that my concern is actually getting all the information actually needed to play. I like changes, I do, just the size and the scope for these are rather large. Supercarriers obviously seeing a big change. I have yet to see when testing on these might be on Sisi? Might there be an announcement before too long about the when etc...of testing?

How many fighter bombers will carrier be capable of fielding?
Will they lose any more space or are they where you want them to be? In terms of 2 Battleships fitting inside...

great work so far...keep on rocking.

Ferria
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.16 21:22:00 - [7]
 

quick question, will supers be avalible on test for those of us with the required skills to test without direct ccp intervention?

IHaveTenFingers
Caldari
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2009.09.16 21:32:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ferria
quick question, will supers be avalible on test for those of us with the required skills to test without direct ccp intervention?


I'd love to know as well. I've never advocated the "OMG SEED TITANS AND MOTHERSHIPS" threads, but with fortnightly mirrors (moms presumably still take 26 days and titans take 40 something), some consideration might be given to seeding supercaps in order to be able to test the changes without undue stress on the devs.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.09.16 21:53:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: IHaveTenFingers
Originally by: Ferria
quick question, will supers be avalible on test for those of us with the required skills to test without direct ccp intervention?


I'd love to know as well. I've never advocated the "OMG SEED TITANS AND MOTHERSHIPS" threads, but with fortnightly mirrors (moms presumably still take 26 days and titans take 40 something), some consideration might be given to seeding supercaps in order to be able to test the changes without undue stress on the devs.


Check the latest devblog. Friday 25th, 48 hours, Supercaps and all skill lv5 for everyone.

Freidrich Nietchize
Gallente
Capitalist Pigs Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.16 22:56:00 - [10]
 

according to http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=697
the testing will be done on:
The supercapitals test will take place on Friday the 25th of September at 18:00

what system(s) will this take place in so i can go ahead and move my char to a location where i can participate?

Torin Thunderfist
Posted - 2009.09.17 01:06:00 - [11]
 

The new Minmatar Fighter Bomber Tyrfing has 13'392 effective HP.
Calculated with the EFT model of EHP calculation of evenly distributed damage types / average resistances, not the ingame fittings screen method that uses a minimum effective HP calculation with 100% damage against the lowest resist of that HP type.

With the Hel's new bonus at level 5, that gets increased to 17'857 EHP. Fighter bombers are also slower than regular Fighters (210m/s orbit velocity Tyrfing vs 300m/s Einherji) and larger (125m/s vs 100m/s).

Chimera and Archon win big time with their 25% resistance bonus on the ships HP.

Nyx wins with a 25% dps increase on Fighter Bombers (12k dps instead of 9.6k dps for a flight of 20). Rumors have it that FBs can't be delegated, removing the problem the Nyx had with regular Fighters.

The +4465 EHP on Fighter Bombers are... well... let's just say, could we have the repair amount bonus back please?
It was the worst of the 4 bonuses, but it could make a difference.

Also: posting via new IGB. Awesome.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.17 01:07:00 - [12]
 

Quit whining about the name "supercarrier". It's what they call the biggest type of carriers in real life, and it makes sense in Eve, since what motherships will become is basically just a bigger carrier with the capability of fielding bomber fighters.


Artassaut
Minmatar
Shadow Striders
Property Management Solutions
Posted - 2009.09.17 02:26:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Torin Thunderfist
The new Minmatar Fighter Bomber Tyrfing has 13'392 effective HP.
With the Hel's new bonus at level 5, that gets increased to 17'857 EHP. Fighter bombers are also slower than regular Fighters (210m/s orbit velocity Tyrfing vs 300m/s Einherji) and larger (125m/s vs 100m/s).

...

It was the worst of the 4 bonuses, but it could make a difference.



Hm, I would have thought the Minmatar Supercarrier would get a velocity/Signature Radius bonus to their fighters.

Thoughts?

Gonff MaeTeiff
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.17 02:38:00 - [14]
 

Some more consideration needs to be given to the effect of carrier smart bombs on fighter bombers and their torpedoes - or well have the same problem as citadel torps

also im disappointed not to see an increase in jump range. The gimped jump range was the worst part about pre Dom Mother ships. If Super Carriers are to live up to their namesake the jump range needs to be changed appropriately.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.09.17 02:46:00 - [15]
 

Well first of all. Stop calling them supercarriers. If you want that name to stick... let them dock. Afterall I didnt eject from my HAS(read HAC) and jump into my RNI(read CNR) You want to eleviate confusion... but it's only going to create eversomore confusion.

New ehp is pretty crazy. Damage just blinks off moms now. I really do think that will mean they are likely to jump onto the battlefield now... or rather stay at the battlefield sigh. I think that it will be essentially the value of commandships in rr bs gangs. Massive tanks that if the enemy shoots... they might just break it. However how many loses will they take in that fight.

Fighter bombers on the otherhand. Very nice. Ammo for drones :) compact citadels :) Perhaps something that might roll over to being used on the stealth bombers or new variant there of? the compact torps dont take skill to use. The launchers could be what makes the skill deal. Have a special launcher. WIN!

Fighter bombers dont win though. From what I can see. They orbit within smartbomb range. This is totally impractical. The reason carriers and motherships dont use fighters vs caps is because of smartbombs. Instead relying on sentries which are extremely weak and very limited in range. Where a mothership with 20x garde 2s does a weak 1200 dps.

Im not sure wat bomber dps is with 20 of them and proper skills. Id hope for 3000-5000 dps i think.

The problem though. Smartbombs beat on them dont they? So you're right back to the first problem. Make them orbit very widely. Like 25-50 km. Within range of dread drones. Very clear for support to pew pew; and far enough rr from carriers and moms cant get them.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.09.17 02:52:00 - [16]
 

Quote:
IMO supercapital's need a balance to hic's.
3 hic's would be a fair infi scramble.
on a mothership or titan.

No. The point of hics are exactly this.

The only thing hics need a nerf on is sensor res. They can get boosted to where they are catching the impossible.

Quote:
quick question, will supers be avalible on test for those of us with the required skills to test without direct ccp intervention?

Indeed. I cant fly a titan but id test out mom in things like lvl 5 missions if i could. Beyond the 2 days of all lvl 5. supercap available?

Sea Gate
Caldari
Sea Gate Corp
Posted - 2009.09.17 03:38:00 - [17]
 

Just tested out my Hel. Gotta say I'm happy with the changes except for the need of Fighters to V for fighter bombers. Just seems... to much.

Also, make the models for supercarriers bigger Very Happy

Mara Intala
Posted - 2009.09.17 04:36:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Sea Gate
except for the need of Fighters to V for fighter bombers. Just seems... to much.

Also, make the models for supercarriers bigger Very Happy


Seems fine to me. Even though I have major doubts about only letting moms use bombers (Bad idea, major bad idea Evil or Very Mad) you wouldnít want every carrier pilot to have them w/o any extra work. Besides, flying a SC w/o fighters V anyways just seems.... wrong.

But this is just by bit of feed back. I donít fly moms and until they can dock and cost under 5 bil each. I WILL never fly one on the front line. Not when you could field and loose over 8 dreads at the current cost of a SC.

So far only Titans should have the name Super Cap. SC should be remade into normal caps, dock able and cheaper (3-5 bil)

This is what I have though ever since I heard about the Bombers.

Carriers as they are should be renamed Logistics Carrier. They can keep the Triage and be able to use normal fighters.

Moms should be named Fleet Assault Carriers; they are DPS based, cheaper and can use Bombers. (Much cheaper Not 12 more like 3-5)

Currently I can see NO reason why something like this should have been done. Titans can cause massive destruction across a battlefield; they are feared and renowned for what they can do and in turn. The pilot canít dock them.

But moms do what exactly? What destruction can they cause to make them cost so much (15 bil + just for looks?) they are not super logistics ships capable of repping massive amounts of hp, nor are they insane dps. In fact, Iím sure 2 carriers can do more dps and more logistics than 1 mom for 1/10th the price.

Now, before you just shoot this idea down, which Iím sure you will cause it seems your minds are made up on this. Just think, at the moment, most 0.0 alliances that I know of, only have a few moms, why is this? Because they are les useful that carriers, but for the most part they are too much trouble for most carrier pilots to use. I canít think of any reason that any carrier pilot would get a mom other than to look cool (because they do!)

But if they could dock, and had a reasonable price that could be replaced if lost (15b is enough to buy a character, why spend it on a ship that WILL get destroyed.) not only would the manufacturers of said ships get more business, but the future manufacturers of the bombers will have a reason to build them. (Moms will not be used on the front line, and so they will not have there bombers out much and in turn they will not get destroyed).

Just my 2 isk worth of feed back about an awesome ship and an awesome idea. I would like to see these ships more in 0.0, not less.Very Happy

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.17 05:55:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Viper ShizzIe on 17/09/2009 05:55:29
Jumprange really needs to be looked at, if cal5 motherships could have the same range as cal4 dreads (currently like .5ly short) it'd make them a lot more appealing.

Also, mothership infinite point module, please.

CCP Abathur


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.17 06:38:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: IHaveTenFingers
Originally by: Ferria
quick question, will supers be avalible on test for those of us with the required skills to test without direct ccp intervention?


I'd love to know as well. I've never advocated the "OMG SEED TITANS AND MOTHERSHIPS" threads, but with fortnightly mirrors (moms presumably still take 26 days and titans take 40 something), some consideration might be given to seeding supercaps in order to be able to test the changes without undue stress on the devs.


Yes, we are planning a couple special events that will be announced shortly.

For right now just keep doing what you are doing and keep the feedback as constructive and factual as possible. Some of the designers will be on and off SiSi over the weekend as well to discuss things more directly.

Armadaus Baldwin
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.17 06:42:00 - [21]
 

Gentles at CCP,

While testing the "SuperCarrier" (more in specific, the Fighter Bombers), I and a couple others noticed a glaring problem that I'm surprised passed your QC.

Not only do the bombers easily fall prey to Smartbombs, much in the fashion of fighters... But so do their Torps. Making them virtually useless against other Carriers/SuperCarriers and the average Titan.

So while the idea is cool, it's current iteration is less than useful. My understanding, is the intent is to once again bring "Motherships" ala the new SuperCarrier name back to the front line. Risk V Usefulness is still amazingly unbalanced in this iteration.

Please take some time into looking into increasing the Midget Torpedo hitpoints, or find some magical alloy that makes them immune to Area of Effect weapons in general. (Are either of these possible, or even ideas being tossed around at this stage?)

I must say, I'm quite happy with the 2-3 months advance testing time so we can discuss these issues. I still have reservations, quite strongly, against the new Titan weapon... but it's too early to call. Also, I too, would like to encourage the production of T2 Capital Reps, or T2 Capital Remote Reps.

Also, really... SuperCarrier? Can't we think of something that actually sounds menacing? Going to continue testing with my Alt, but so far... much work to be done, thank you for giving us the opportunity to assist.

Angor
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2009.09.17 06:43:00 - [22]
 

let them dock

Generic PlayerX
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.17 07:08:00 - [23]
 

how will the construction components of the supercarrier be effected ?

oonly the clone vat bay will be removed ?

or will it be removed and some parts added to the others needed to be constructed ?

from generic

CCP Abathur


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.17 07:14:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: CCP Abathur on 17/09/2009 07:14:48
Originally by: Armadaus Baldwin

Not only do the bombers easily fall prey to Smartbombs, much in the fashion of fighters... But so do their Torps. Making them virtually useless against other Carriers/SuperCarriers and the average Titan.

Please take some time into looking into increasing the Midget Torpedo hitpoints, or find some magical alloy that makes them immune to Area of Effect weapons in general. (Are either of these possible, or even ideas being tossed around at this stage?)


We are already looking into this. Also, "at this stage" - Dominion is still roughly two months from deployment. As you noted, there is plenty of time for us to tweak all aspects of this part of the expansion. Smile

Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.09.17 08:05:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
supercarrier is a dumb name btw

They're alot scarier than carriers. Get it? S-carrier!

Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.09.17 09:24:00 - [26]
 

RL carriers i.e. Nimitz class - Super Carrier
carriers like HMS Ark Royal - Carrier

Enough of the name whining pleeeease. ugh

Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.09.17 09:41:00 - [27]
 

FYI, if the stats I have are correct (expl rad 1000, expl vel 29, DRF 5) AND that player's skills don't affect those in any way, the fighter-bombers will do about:
17% (~1700 DPS) of their max damage to a 400-sigrad BS going 100 m/s
36% (~3600 DPS) of their max damage to above BS when it's single-webbed
3% (~300 DPS) of their max damage to 130-sig cruiser (Rupture) going 240 m/s
7% (~700 DPS) of their max damage to above cruiser when single-webbed
12.5% (~1250 DPS) of their max damage to above cruiser when double-webbed.

Discuss.

Also, a question: do player skills (target navigation prediction being a real possibility) affect these weapons?

fairimear
Gallente
The Sp00Ks
Posted - 2009.09.17 10:17:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
IMO supercapital's need a balance to hic's.
3 hic's would be a fair infi scramble.
on a mothership or titan.

No. The point of hics are exactly this.

The only thing hics need a nerf on is sensor res. They can get boosted to where they are catching the impossible.

Quote:
quick question, will supers be avalible on test for those of us with the required skills to test without direct ccp intervention?

Indeed. I cant fly a titan but id test out mom in things like lvl 5 missions if i could. Beyond the 2 days of all lvl 5. supercap available?




No the point of hic's was to counter the unscrambleable supercaiptals.
NOT TO MAKE THEM SO VULNERABLE THEY NEVER LEAVE A POS.

Drake Mezcal
Quam Singulari
Session Changes
Posted - 2009.09.17 10:20:00 - [29]
 

make them able to dock and alot more people would have them and it would b win win for every1

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.09.17 11:05:00 - [30]
 

Can they dock now?

If not, they'll still be alt-ships that are rarely used, more so than titans.

(Plz don;t give me "they will always be used, nub" I'm talking about in general, player goals etc.)


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