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Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:19:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Quesa on 15/09/2009 22:21:44
I sincerely hope that CCP looks into vastly increasing the Ship Maint bay of Titans and reworks the Clone Vat functionality to allow them to finally be able to be the "Fleet Reinforcement" module that I always thought they were for.

What will the range of these torps for the bombers be?

Are the specialized to the point to where they won't be able to hit BS's and large POS mods effectively?

Will these fighters be stuck with the standard racial damage types?

Will SuperCarriers have modified jump ranges to be able to jump with carrier fleets?

Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:20:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 15/09/2009 22:07:54
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 15/09/2009 22:06:44
don't change 'mothership' to 'supercarrier' , that's just stupid and really doesn't make anything clearer.

You're making them have a defined role of their own anyway so why would you change the name to make them seem even more similar.

But seriously supercarrier just sounds dumb

oh, and now moroses need a boost for being pretty much the worst dread, which is pretty funny.


otherwise, pretty cool stuff.



a mothership is (well should be) a massive ship capable of moving fleets vast distances but currently they are really just big (aka super) carriers. don't really like the loss of the clone vat bay, but not the end of the world.

Jonathan Mcarthur
Caldari
Stargazer Exploration Company
Sundiver Technology Diversified
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:22:00 - [33]
 

Assualt Carriers is an overall better name for "Super Carrier", it pretty much gives a proper name for it.

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:24:00 - [34]
 

They probably chose super carriers, because that's what the only nation on the planet that has something remotely real life equivalent calls them (aka us, the United States). We have regular carriers, and we have super carriers.

Not saying that makes it any less lame (might make it more lame?) but I think that's the reasoning.

Zastrow J
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:27:00 - [35]
 

I said this at the CSM summit and I'm repeating it here: while I understand the desire to keep a Moros from raping any subcap to get closer than 60km with drones, making it rely on sentries in siege to even come near the dps of the other dreads makes it by far the least desirable dread. Its only saving grace was it's ability to fight off subcaps out of siege but with that gone it's just going to be one more class of ship where Gallente is the worst.

Sybilla Prior
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:28:00 - [36]
 

What they don't seem to be doing is making sub-capital ships more usefull in big fleet-fights. Why is that?

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:28:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 15/09/2009 22:32:57
Originally by: Sertan Deras
I read the Moros nerf as "We are just making sure the Revelation is the only turret dread worth flying. It was sort of ambiguous before, but now there is no doubt: Cross train for a Revelation now."

Hey, I already have Amarr Dread 5, so I'm not complaining...but I feel bad for Moros pilots.


What they COULD do is give heavy drones a big enough optimal range bonus (or a scoop bonus) that you don't have to be worried about being knocked off your sentries should you dare deploy them, since you sure as hell aren't going to be carrying much else right now.

Doubt that'd happen though. Ah well, I was going to get Amarr anyways - not that hard to shift things around in EveMon.

Why don't you just strip the drone bonus altogether and bring the Moros' guns on par with the other dreads, if drones are only meant to be used as a siege weapon? You're not gonna be able to do much against support with the siege mode locking restrictions.

Solanio
Perkone
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:29:00 - [38]
 

a) supercarrier is s stupid name, what's next? superdominix? just keep mothership please

b) I am a Moros pilot and I agree with the changes. It never made sense for the drones to get the bonus if not in siege. But please look into changing sentry drones in a way that some bumping does not mean it takes minutes for the Moros to get back his drones. Scoop range bonus or let sentries, if used by a Moros, move at e.g. 50m/s when recalled.

iP0D
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:29:00 - [39]
 

Interesting Titan changes, but no hitpoint change or added heat bonus will change that they are glass cannons in the face of 200 dreadnoughts ... they are going to need more then just this new targeted weapon to really be part of a fleet. Imo it is time to swap out the launcher slots on the ragnarok and leviathan for turrets so they can be somewhat operational in tight spots like the avatar and erebus.

Corinae
Gallente
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:30:00 - [40]
 


ROF of new DDD? i need answer or i can't sleep, thanks, my erebus is crying so hard :(

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:31:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 15/09/2009 22:37:34
Thank you, thank you, thank you for the dev blog on capitals.

However, I do have some important questions. I'm a Nyx pilot. The past year and a half of my Nyx ownership has been me sitting inside the pos shield for 99.9999% of the time, anytime I'd want to take it out the alliance would say "you crazy?". Part of that is lack of a defined role, and the other part, more importantly, was how easy they were to pop.

So, the questions:

1) The blog states that supercarriers are getting a hit point increase. I welcome this, but an increase in hit points alone won't do the job. Even with 2 capital armor reppers, Dreadnaughts (and I'm assuming fighter bombers) will tear through supercaps like paper unless we can do a LOT more repping. Any plans for a T2 capital armor repper for supercaps, or additional bonuses to help supercap defenses?

2) As I understand it, the supercarrier's primary role will be anti-capital ship now. I'm loving that, and think it's the perfect role. Since we're losing command modules, clone vat bay, and triage, will there be additional bonuses added to supercarriers to help it in its new role?

3) Projected ECCM is ok but not really "great" for fleet fights. Any plans to beef it up or change it? Is CCP still looking to supercarriers to help fullfil the anti-blob role?

4) I'm still concerned that post patch I'll be spending 95% of my time stuck in a pos since I can't dock. Any plans to allow supercaps to dock? You mentioned getting supercaps out of the pos and into the fight more, but it seems conflicting to other blogs where they say that small ship combat will be the focus.

Thanks!

HunterHH
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:32:00 - [42]
 

.. i think the name strike carrier will fit more then super carrier. or assault carrier. Cool

but i don't like the idea to loose a carrier in 1 shot... for some people they still are expensive stuff - to loose approx 1.5+ with one shot can make people quit imo. Rolling Eyes

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:33:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Corinae

ROF of new DDD? i need answer or i can't sleep, thanks, my erebus is crying so hard :(


If it insta-pops capital ships, which is implied, then the ROF is going to be long enough to not completely unbalance a capital fight by bringing in six Titans who just insta-kill the entire enemy fleet.

Or maybe not, I mean, they did think DD's were a good idea in the first place.

Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:34:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: iP0D
Interesting Titan changes, but no hitpoint change or added heat bonus will change that they are glass cannons in the face of 200 dreadnoughts ... they are going to need more then just this new targeted weapon to really be part of a fleet. Imo it is time to swap out the launcher slots on the ragnarok and leviathan for turrets so they can be somewhat operational in tight spots like the avatar and erebus.



to ensure that you don't instantly melt and can survive more than a minute on the modern EVE capital battlefield, we will be giving Titans a respectable hit point increase.

Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:34:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Hull Blaster on 15/09/2009 22:43:48
Hmm... pretty pi**ed about the bombers only being on moms. I mean really???? How are these supposed to break up dread blobs when they're only going to be used by moms? I mean perhaps make the carrier pilot choose between having fighters or bombers but not both, but to restrict them to only mom pilots just feels like a kick in the teeth. If dreads had a persistent threat of being bombed to bits by bombers it would bring smaller ships back into blobs which could track and kill the bombers. Just like in RL you have say a carrier in the middle being protected by picket ships keeping watch on the outside. Would mean people had to think about ship deployment instead of just dropping 50 dreads and not having to worry about anything. I got really excited when I heard there were new fighter type ships/drones being introduced to the game... but it just sucks now. How many people get to fly a mom ffs SadMadMad

Please CCP... let carriers have a bomber too. Even if it does reduced damage or something, it makes no logical sense to give these only to motherships. You dont see any carrier in the world only fielding ONE aircraft type. Now things are slightly different with multi-role aircraft, but in the days of the Cold War before such things we had on HMS Eagle the Phantoms for CAP, Buccaneers for ASuW/strike and the Gannet for EWAR. Bring some more choices to the carrier drivers... would be nice to get some ECM fighters, just something to make the tactical choices a bit more diverse than they currently are.

By the way I like the Supercarrier idea. Perhaps rename the current carriers to "fleet carrier" or something. Like in RL we have the smaller escort carriers of WWII and the Nimitz class super carrier.

Zastrow J
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:34:00 - [46]
 

supercaps arent intended to be solo pwnboats, but with triage carriers around you can ensure that your supercaps would make an awful primary target

ElvenLord
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:36:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Zastrow J
I said this at the CSM summit and I'm repeating it here: while I understand the desire to keep a Moros from raping any subcap to get closer than 60km with drones, making it rely on sentries in siege to even come near the dps of the other dreads makes it by far the least desirable dread. Its only saving grace was it's ability to fight off subcaps out of siege but with that gone it's just going to be one more class of ship where Gallente is the worst.


I agree 100% with the goon. Removing something that made moros what it was just makes it worthless.

"Of all the dreadnoughts currently in existence, the versatile Moros possesses perhaps the greatest capacity to fend off smaller hostiles by itself while concentrating on its primary capital target. By virtue of its protean array of point defense capabilities - including a drone bay capable of fielding vast amounts of drones to safeguard the behemoth - the Moros is single-handedly capable of turning the tide in a fleet battle." - this is/was the moros description

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:36:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Zastrow J
I said this at the CSM summit and I'm repeating it here: while I understand the desire to keep a Moros from raping any subcap to get closer than 60km with drones, making it rely on sentries in siege to even come near the dps of the other dreads makes it by far the least desirable dread. Its only saving grace was it's ability to fight off subcaps out of siege but with that gone it's just going to be one more class of ship where Gallente is the worst.


They haven't changed ANYTHING to do with a moro's while it's in siege.

There was no point in putting a moros on a hostile pos if you didn't siege it. There was no point in putting a moros on hostile caps unless you sieged it.

Now : You have Drone bonus, you drop it on POS, siege it, you get weapon bonus
Future : You drop it on POS, siege it, you get weapon and drone bonus

You do the same damage, have the same things happen, in both situations.

Stop acting like they've removed the bonus.

Bow'ma
Infinity Enterprises
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:37:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Bow''ma on 15/09/2009 22:38:36
Just a mather of time before everyone is flying XMOMs maybe? Sure there expensive, but having the capability to kick the hell out of carriers and dreads, the capability to also not get single-shotted by a titan makes them choice #1.

Hmmmm, interesting though.

Edit: Spelling fix.

Van Krakien
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:38:00 - [50]
 

this new titan super weapon is just as bad as the doomsday.....Instead of being able to kill a battleship that cost 100m now you lose your carrier or dreadnaught which will run up a few billion.....good thinking ccp......

Gael Itrus
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:38:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: HunterHH
.. i think the name strike carrier will fit more then super carrier. or assault carrier. Cool



strike carrier is a much better name

Tigerclaw Bunny
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:41:00 - [52]
 

mhh titans get nerved... so thats why ex-Kenzoku is selling there titans since 2-3 weeks before the first dev blog?....

Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:42:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Quesa on 15/09/2009 22:42:31
Originally by: Van Krakien
this new titan super weapon is just as bad as the doomsday.....Instead of being able to kill a battleship that cost 100m now you lose your carrier or dreadnaught which will run up a few billion.....good thinking ccp......


The way it looks, you won't be seeing Titans on the field when Dreads are there, sure the Titan will nuke a single capitol but I can't seem them giving it a ROF to nuke an entire cap fleet before it's downed.

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:42:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Fuujin on 15/09/2009 22:43:20
Edited by: Fuujin on 15/09/2009 22:42:34
Originally by: Van Krakien
this new titan super weapon is just as bad as the doomsday.....Instead of being able to kill a battleship that cost 100m now you lose your carrier or dreadnaught which will run up a few billion.....good thinking ccp......


A single carrier/mom/battleship, not potentially every ship within 250KM of your own. BIG difference.

40 battleship fleet=well over 4 billion isk. 1 dread=2 billion, unless you're doing some silly deadspace fitting.


Edit: Beaten....

Emeline Cabernet
Amarr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:42:00 - [55]
 

Can you assign fighter bombers to other ships like regular fighters?

Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:43:00 - [56]
 

I would like further explanation on why the capital clone bays are being removed from the build cost? While I can understand and agree with wanting to reduce the build cost, doing so by making a blueprint that producers have spent a lot of money acquiring is bad gameplay. A better solution would be to reduce component usage across the board by 10%.

Alley Novell
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:43:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Alley Novell on 15/09/2009 22:51:10
Originally by: Sertan Deras
Originally by: Corinae

ROF of new DDD? i need answer or i can't sleep, thanks, my erebus is crying so hard :(


If it insta-pops capital ships, which is implied, then the ROF is going to be long enough to not completely unbalance a capital fight by bringing in six Titans who just insta-kill the entire enemy fleet.

Or maybe not, I mean, they did think DD's were a good idea in the first place.


Well, originally, I believe Titans were to be the OMG ship. Incredibly hard to build, shows up, ruins the battlefield.

As more and more other Capitals are/were produced, Supercapitals became devalued (on the battlefield) due to their usage against heavy numbers of Capitals; i.e. the production of Capitals is easier (loose term) and therefore Supercapitals don't get much daylight.

As mentioned in the blog, Capital warfare has become 'common' enough to the point the specific roles cannot be fulfilled due to production of the bigger ships being so hard. I see this as they had two choices - Make Supercapitals easier to produce, and more common in Capital warfare; alternatively, make Supercapitals hardier as so they aren't hopelessly outnumbered by easier to produce Capitals.

They're making a change to start this 'balancing' process... as it seems.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:45:00 - [58]
 

The most useful change that supercaps could see is an increase in their jump range so you're more able to move them around with the carriers and dreads rather than needing a seperate dedicated cyno chain for the route.

Any chance of this?

Zastrow J
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:45:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Shade Millith
Originally by: Zastrow J
I said this at the CSM summit and I'm repeating it here: while I understand the desire to keep a Moros from raping any subcap to get closer than 60km with drones, making it rely on sentries in siege to even come near the dps of the other dreads makes it by far the least desirable dread. Its only saving grace was it's ability to fight off subcaps out of siege but with that gone it's just going to be one more class of ship where Gallente is the worst.


They haven't changed ANYTHING to do with a moro's while it's in siege.

There was no point in putting a moros on a hostile pos if you didn't siege it. There was no point in putting a moros on hostile caps unless you sieged it.

Now : You have Drone bonus, you drop it on POS, siege it, you get weapon bonus
Future : You drop it on POS, siege it, you get weapon and drone bonus

You do the same damage, have the same things happen, in both situations.

Stop acting like they've removed the bonus.


here's why the Moros sucks: the 1000mm railguns do less damage than other dread turrets. This lower dps is supposed to be offset by the drone damage bonus, but drones can be popped and have short range. HOWEVER, the drone damage bonus was pretty cool out of siege because you could own dictors or any subcap with drones. Without the option to bone subcaps out of siege the moros loses its versatility and becomes functionally the same as the other dreads except doing less dps and being handicapped by drones

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:45:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Quesa
Edited by: Quesa on 15/09/2009 22:42:31
Originally by: Van Krakien
this new titan super weapon is just as bad as the doomsday.....Instead of being able to kill a battleship that cost 100m now you lose your carrier or dreadnaught which will run up a few billion.....good thinking ccp......


The way it looks, you won't be seeing Titans on the field when Dreads are there, sure the Titan will nuke a single capitol but I can't seem them giving it a ROF to nuke an entire cap fleet before it's downed.


You're talking about CCP, you thought remote DD's were a good idea at one time, or for that matter, though the DD was ever a good idea remote or otherwise. It wouldn't shock me at all if it had a fast enough ROF to wipe out 10's of billions of ISK in caps before it went down.


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