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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.09 03:35:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
WoW Nice breaking of the files and giving us a head up!!

now

ib4 goon threadnaught.


we knew about this two days ago this isn't the first place it's been posted

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.09 04:35:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
And I don't know whose alt you think I am, but having spent more time in front of POS and gates than you've played EVE makes me an authority on lesser evils. The current system of dropping and killing POS on moons is excellent. What isn't excellent is the relative ease of doing the former, and relative difficulty of doing the latter.

The current system is excellent for large naptrains controlling vast tracts of empty space. Yes of course you would prefer the mind-numbingly boring system of watching pos shields go slowly down and ordering your minions to fuel hundreds of POS'es.

IVeige
Caldari
IVever.
Posted - 2009.09.09 04:56:00 - [33]
 

alright so does that mean that goons will have to stop their loljihad and head back to delve to keep soverinity ??? Wink

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.09 05:04:00 - [34]
 

well wormholes will simply allow anyone to jump in if its a good link and drop it - the aim here will be to force control of smalelr systems ( as long as ccp populate 00 with more cosmic anamolies and sigs - not just high sec but more womrholes etc in 00)

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2009.09.09 05:20:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: IVeige
alright so does that mean that goons will have to stop their loljihad and head back to delve to keep soverinity ??? Wink


Nah, just that they have to find some foolish renters to kick around and backstab for lols to keep it for them. And maybe a few macros.

Ecky X
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2009.09.09 05:28:00 - [36]
 

Should be very interesting. Shocked

Takon Orlani
Caldari
Excrutiating Dirge
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.09.09 05:53:00 - [37]
 

Purchased sov? not much of a change

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2009.09.09 06:13:00 - [38]
 

I knew about the gate control system MONTHS ago... looks like they're going ahead with it finally.


Woot breaking up fleets would be interesting. Imagine trying to take a constellation with 12 gates into it.

Leana Darkrider
Minmatar
Creatio -ex- nihilo
The Donkey Rollers
Posted - 2009.09.09 06:37:00 - [39]
 

If this is true, I really like it.

No more pos bashing, just fleet against fleet Twisted Evil

ElanMorin6
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.09.09 06:54:00 - [40]
 

A gate based system, eh?



I can't wait to see what happens when the largest alliances start conquoring whole regions just to keep their empire logistics routes safe (hint: it won't be a proliferation of small alliances staking claims all over nullsec).

Plave Okice
Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya
Yezhovshchina
Posted - 2009.09.09 07:40:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
The current system of dropping and killing POS on moons is excellent. What isn't excellent is the relative ease of doing the former, and relative difficulty of doing the latter.


Sums up the current problems perfectly.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2009.09.09 07:58:00 - [42]
 

What I find odd is that they seem to hint that you will not be able to install towers in wormholes. Oh well - go put your towers up guys while you can. Online towers in wormholes might end up costing their weight in ummm .. dypso ?

As far as sov goes those few lines up there hint it might be indeed same ****, different name. If I would to need speculate I would even guess that all sov structures will need freighter (not jumping version) to be moved. And they will still die in one siege cykle if you drop 100 dreads on it.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2009.09.09 09:14:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 09/09/2009 09:14:03
Originally by: Carniflex
What I find odd is that they seem to hint that you will not be able to install towers in wormholes. Oh well - go put your towers up guys while you can. Online towers in wormholes might end up costing their weight in ummm .. dypso ?
Yes, because from the information we have it's obvious that normal POSes are completely out... Rolling Eyes

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2009.09.09 09:18:00 - [44]
 

If you want a hint to what it will be like its going to be similar to the factional warfare system.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.09 09:23:00 - [45]
 

i heard sov is now gonna be based on how many points the pilots in your alliance have in charisma.

Xellss
Posted - 2009.09.09 10:52:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Xellss on 09/09/2009 10:58:31
this looks awsome role on more 0.0 pvp

As for size, no my guess is to leave them at about 5000-10000m3 making them easily carriable, and hit point wise they shoudl only have some where around 1.5 to twice the hit points of a large bubble, meaning that small roamign gangs can easily drop them given 5 or 10 minuites. Negating the use of dreads from this warefare.

The idea would be, that might is not right, having 2000 members and 400 odd dreads does not garrnty you space over a 300 man highly trained gurrelia alliance which can inflatrate and tacticaly wack up claim disruptors and run there larger counter-part ragged and into the ground. Because that is the current problem in eve, MIGHT is RIGHT and thats not the game 90% of us in 2005 signed up for.

The ability for enemys to also offline towers with out dread, means you can hit pos incomes, forcing people to repopulate there 0.0s to one defend it and two utalize belts and mining as secure incomes. These changes if done right would force alot of borderline fighting and alot of larger space holders who hold massive amounts of empty space, to reevaluate there claim.

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.09.09 11:26:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Vanzatoarea on 09/09/2009 11:29:43
Originally by: Xellss
Edited by: Xellss on 09/09/2009 10:58:31
this looks awsome role on more 0.0 pvp

As for size, no my guess is to leave them at about 5000-10000m3 making them easily carriable, and hit point wise they shoudl only have some where around 1.5 to twice the hit points of a large bubble, meaning that small roamign gangs can easily drop them given 5 or 10 minuites. Negating the use of dreads from this warefare.

The idea would be, that might is not right, having 2000 members and 400 odd dreads does not garrnty you space over a 300 man highly trained gurrelia alliance which can inflatrate and tacticaly wack up claim disruptors and run there larger counter-part ragged and into the ground. Because that is the current problem in eve, MIGHT is RIGHT and thats not the game 90% of us in 2005 signed up for.

The ability for enemys to also offline towers with out dread, means you can hit pos incomes, forcing people to repopulate there 0.0s to one defend it and two utalize belts and mining as secure incomes. These changes if done right would force alot of borderline fighting and alot of larger space holders who hold massive amounts of empty space, to reevaluate there claim.


absurd . So you want sov decided on odd timezone issues by random cloakin` wannabe pvp`ers?

Why do people allways assume that some odd hac roaming gang should have any effect on sov? Guerilla forces work against ratters , if you want to start an empire , bring an army to the field.

And...dreads should become obsolete in your opinnion now? No thanks , EvE doesnt need to become more "fast-paced counterstrike-like"

sidenote: stockpile on t2 now, cause if this crap goes live , you can bet on prices at the very least going up by 100% . If sov will imply gatecampin a system 24/7 , figure out the stability of moonmins income....

and this will only increase blobing , i dont see why anyone thinks it will do the oposite . If now a roaming gang can move quite freely around cause it poses no "real" threat to the infrastructure of the locals , if such gangs will be potentially distruptive in the real sense , expect the motherblob droping on you as soon as you are spoted

edit : didnt they figure out by now FW is fail? i guess not , since they plan on doing the dust **** anyway....

RP immersion edit : Why the hell does an aliance have to pay anything to DED? DED matter now in 0.0? they are just "empire bears" , 0.0 alliances have since long risen well above any and all "empires" military wise....and now they pay tribute and taxes to ded?


Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2009.09.09 11:52:00 - [48]
 

You do realize that securing an entire region would break up a blob too much? I mean there is only so many gates you can defend all at once.

Oh btw 0.0 player operated gate guns!

And a control tower in the system that controls them.

Also specialized Towers supposivly.

No more sensless tower spamming either.

Sh'iriin
Posted - 2009.09.09 13:18:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Sh''iriin on 09/09/2009 13:20:45
sov may will be expanded, from a single stage "have it or not" with lvl's that mostly include time as factor - to a multi stage system that requires you to achieve different goals within a system to get sov, and to get higher lvls of sov. there are tons of different setups ccp could throw into field - just think of this example:

gate-sov
when you controll all gates to a system, you gain gate sov - or call it sov0. as long you hold sov0 in a system no new pos can be anchored in that system - let's say gates don't allow you to bring any pos into the system.
the gate controll units are anchored near the gates, and try to setup a network through the system. those gate controllers are very hard to destroy, but you can anchor a disruptor. these are jaming the system wide network of the controll units and so break sov0. disruptors can be destroyed relatively easy.

pos-sov
current pos sov was a pain because anchoring new pos in the system was easy compared to how hard it is to take existing pos down. in the new system, by holding sov0, you block the anchoring of new pos inside the system. this changes the new pos vs. kill old pos ratio. when you have the pos majority inside the system, you gain sov1.

planet-sov
you managed to hold sov0 long enough to make sov1 possible? great - now we move to the planets. here comes dust into play and is the way to get sov2.

the different sov's are connected, but not lined up. holding sov1 is not broken when losing sov0 as example. but the more different sov aspects you hold, the more influence you gain and the more benefits you have.

sov0
no more new hostile pos anchorable in the system -> getting sov1 is easier

sov1
the sov0 control units are buffed up (if you also hold sov0), as they now can expand theire system network to include the pos. sov1 gives you a certain lvl of influence over the contact space/planets. so whoever has sov1 has a large benefit when it comes to hire mercs on the planets in dust to get sov2. also sov1 enables some special anchorable strutures as cyno blockers.

sov2
final buff up for the sov0 units (if you still hold sov0) - system network complete. if you also hold sov0+1 you now can anchor new support structures in the system - enhancing you're controll and the possibilitys for you in you're system.

simply it's a system that makes sov a more complex thing that requires you not only to have "max caps blob fleets" - it requires you to be more present in you're space.
before you flame it,keep in mind i just wanted to use this as an example what ccp MAY could bring. so just the info that gates come into play on sov, doesn't mean that they're the only part of the dominion sov....

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.09.09 13:30:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Sh'iriin
Edited by: Sh''iriin on 09/09/2009 13:20:45
sov may will be expanded, from a single stage "have it or not" with lvl's that mostly include time as factor - to a multi stage system that requires you to achieve different goals within a system to get sov, and to get higher lvls of sov.

Not according to the latest blog.

Anslo
Disciples of Night
Dominion of Darkness
Posted - 2009.09.09 13:35:00 - [51]
 

If this is the big sov changes they were talking about this is a waste of an expansion. Neutral

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2009.09.09 13:39:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Nyphur on 09/09/2009 13:55:13
Edited by: Nyphur on 09/09/2009 13:40:07
Originally by: Sh'iriin
Sov changes -
At the moment looks gate based.
Claim markers anchored in system to have sov (wether at a pos, gate, planet what , don't know)
DED (the guys that send out pos mails) charge to have one of the sov claimy things online in a system.
Claim disruptors onlined within 20km of all the gates in a system can disrupt sov (either by making the claim marker vulnerable or something.)


To be honest, I was expecting something better and I don't see how this ties in with planets and DUST. I'll reserve judgement until I see the system in action, there's just not enough info to go on at the moment.

Originally by: Sh'iriin

SOVEREIGNTY_VULNERABLE_ALLIANCE_BODY 'Your claim in %(system)s is vulnerable to claim jumpers as the connections to the systems star gates has been disrupted.<br><br>Reestablish the connections to the system star gates to retain sovereignty.'


Could this be suggesting that a system's soverignty has to be disrupted at the borders? I.e. if you have sov in all the systems linking to a given target system, the target system's sov can't be affected? I'm probably reading too much into that statement but I'd love to see real functional borders out there so I hope that's what they've got planned.

EDIT: Ooh new blog, will read later
DOUBLEEDIT: Read it. EPIC :D

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.09.09 14:05:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
And I don't know whose alt you think I am, but having spent more time in front of POS and gates than you've played EVE makes me an authority on lesser evils. The current system of dropping and killing POS on moons is excellent. What isn't excellent is the relative ease of doing the former, and relative difficulty of doing the latter.

The current system is excellent for large naptrains controlling vast tracts of empty space. Yes of course you would prefer the mind-numbingly boring system of watching pos shields go slowly down and ordering your minions to fuel hundreds of POS'es.

Do try to slowly re-read what's been written to you.

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2009.09.09 14:28:00 - [54]
 

SOVEREIGNTY_VULNERABLE_ALLIANCE_HEADER 'ALERT: Sovereignty claim is vulnerable to claim jumpers!'

Curse those evil claim jumpers!

/me shakes fist


Attrezzo Pox
Amarr
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.09 14:38:00 - [55]
 

I sincerely doubt that the 'new' sov system will be entirely based on these beacons. CCP has stated a number of times that sov will depend on a mixture of things. Which is as it should be imho.

I applaud the move. If you're worried about having to adapt 'on the fly' with game changing mechanics you've already been invited to participate in testing those changes on sisi before they get officially patched.

If you're smart you'd log onto sisi and help with testing if sov is something you wish to keep a hold on. And through that testing I'm sure many of the "bugs" such as system flip-flopping will be worked out through good mechanic balancing (or to the best of their ability) before release. Then from release on, more balancing.

THIS IS GAME!

Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2009.09.09 14:43:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You could replace DUST with an algorithm that takes X isk from both sides' wallet and spews a random outcome.
Talk about lack of imagination!

Even if the only influence or control EVE players get over DUST combat is the power of the purse, the outcome will be much more non-random than this. Assuming that DUST players will have the ability to band together into some sort of organizations that look like corps (which I think is safe to expect), there will be good ones and bad ones, with reputation and capabilities accordingly. Further assuming that their game is rich enough that ISK matters to those players (which I think is safe to hope for) the good ones will flock to the richest paymasters. In short, if your alliance is willing and able to dump more ISK than the other alliance onto the console players from high orbit, you WILL get better than nonrandom results from the legions of bunny-hopping twitch-boxers who are dying in the mud for the glory of achieving your military priorities. While we high-and-mighty capsuleers recline comfortably in our pod goo sipping quafe and watching ****ographic holoreels.

There seems little chance that it will be an expensive tool for generating random outcomes.

Jamyl TashMurkon
Amarr
Posted - 2009.09.09 15:01:00 - [57]
 

i see alliances just locking down the systems their space is accessible, leave only 1, and camp it to hell and back, Safe 0.0 Neutral

Attrezzo Pox
Amarr
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.09 15:17:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Attrezzo Pox on 09/09/2009 15:58:57
Edited by: Attrezzo Pox on 09/09/2009 15:37:57
Originally by: Sh'iriin
Edited by: Sh''iriin on 09/09/2009 13:20:45
sov may will be expanded, from a single stage "have it or not" with lvl's that mostly include time as factor - to a multi stage system that requires you to achieve different goals within a system to get sov, and to get higher lvls of sov. there are tons of different setups ccp could throw into field - just think of this example:

gate-sov
when you controll all gates to a system, you gain gate sov - or call it sov0. as long you hold sov0 in a system no new pos can be anchored in that system - let's say gates don't allow you to bring any pos into the system.
the gate controll units are anchored near the gates, and try to setup a network through the system. those gate controllers are very hard to destroy, but you can anchor a disruptor. these are jaming the system wide network of the controll units and so break sov0. disruptors can be destroyed relatively easy.

pos-sov
current pos sov was a pain because anchoring new pos in the system was easy compared to how hard it is to take existing pos down. in the new system, by holding sov0, you block the anchoring of new pos inside the system. this changes the new pos vs. kill old pos ratio. when you have the pos majority inside the system, you gain sov1.

planet-sov
you managed to hold sov0 long enough to make sov1 possible? great - now we move to the planets. here comes dust into play and is the way to get sov2.

the different sov's are connected, but not lined up. holding sov1 is not broken when losing sov0 as example. but the more different sov aspects you hold, the more influence you gain and the more benefits you have.

sov0
no more new hostile pos anchorable in the system -> getting sov1 is easier

sov1
the sov0 control units are buffed up (if you also hold sov0), as they now can expand theire system network to include the pos. sov1 gives you a certain lvl of influence over the contact space/planets. so whoever has sov1 has a large benefit when it comes to hire mercs on the planets in dust to get sov2. also sov1 enables some special anchorable strutures as cyno blockers.

sov2
final buff up for the sov0 units (if you still hold sov0) - system network complete. if you also hold sov0+1 you now can anchor new support structures in the system - enhancing you're controll and the possibilitys for you in you're system.

simply it's a system that makes sov a more complex thing that requires you not only to have "max caps blob fleets" - it requires you to be more present in you're space.
before you flame it,keep in mind i just wanted to use this as an example what ccp MAY could bring. so just the info that gates come into play on sov, doesn't mean that they're the only part of the dominion sov....


I think you have it just a bit too linear. From reports about dust not all planets can be fought over leading me to believe that sov will be a helter skelter mixture of things. You can take a planet, or put up a bunch of pos, or put up gate sov beacons. It's likely a combination of these things coupled with your sov in nearby systems will contribute to your sov overall like it always has.

Gone will be the days when you could just pack a couple of systems full of pos and get sov4. You will need to employ a variety of systems to maintain sov. Land, space, and moon.

Some systems will likely be flip-flopable but in a variety of ways, and if there is a very high sov right next to them you may be able to effect the sov not entirely remove it unless you can take out the nearby systems effecting it.

I don't think it's going to be build this, then you can build this, and in turn you can build this.

It will likely be, do any number of these things, then you can use this stuff. You will have to pay more isk because it costs lots of money to maintain sov.

edit this http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=691

Mova B
Posted - 2009.09.09 15:43:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Mova B on 09/09/2009 15:45:21
Quote:
Upkeep Who makes sure all those stargates in 0.0 continue to run? Who pays the bills to the crews and funds essential services to ensure there are no breakdowns? When Dominion is released, the answer is simple - if you want to control the space accessed by these stargates, you will be responsible for their monthly maintenance and upkeep. The current design calls for this to be a simple ISK transaction, representative of things like duct tape for reactor maintenance, Amarrios breakfast cereal and other important stuff. The other major factor is the more space you spread your ‘Dominion' across, the more expensive it will become to maintain your stargate network. We do not want to see alliances holding space simply for the sake of holding it or just making their color on the map bigger. We want to see alliances more properly utilizing their space and providing more places for their members to generate income. In order to facilitate that, we are going to let you do some really cool stuff!
Bye bye napfest Wink This is good change.

But...

LEAVE THE TITAN & DOOMSDAY ALONE! Evil or Very Mad

EDIT: That quote is from the new devblog

Maeve Kell
Posted - 2009.09.09 15:56:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
WoW Nice breaking of the files and giving us a head up!!

now

ib4 goon threadnaught.


we knew about this two days ago this isn't the first place it's been posted


Goons know everything before everyone cause they [censored] with CCP me thinks :X


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