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Thevlyn
Posted - 2009.09.06 00:26:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Thevlyn on 10/09/2009 16:58:43
any chance we could see jaspet receive some love? like increasing yield to 343, pyrite, Noc to 518, zydrine to 10, leave mex as is, and lower trit to 212. this would not be a huge increase, but it would help a lot. These numbers would increase the overall value of jaspet by 25% or so. kernite is about 55% iger in value, so the remaining difference should account for market fluctuations.

Edited this post a bit

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.06 01:09:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 06/09/2009 01:10:45


This would gut the jaspet of value over time. Stop the Veldsparization of Jaspet now!

If you want to do something for mining, add more mineral types and classes. There is plenty of room for more. Don't believe me? Here is a partial list of real live minerals and ores:

http://www.minerals.net/mineral/extended.htm

or this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minerals

I like complex systems which is why I like Eve.. give me more and I'm happy.



Signore Kaeota
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Posted - 2009.09.06 02:42:00 - [3]
 

Mining as a whole needs love tbh. But I quite agree, Jaspet being (as far as I know) only available in lowsec should have SOME value, I mean, other than to the 'if I mine it it's free' crowd...

That said I don't think just increasing the yield outright would be a good idea; maybe altering the ratio's or decreasing the volume of the ore, I don't exactly know the market well enough to judge though...

Max Hardcase
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.06 19:50:00 - [4]
 

Low sec mining Laughing

Aramar Morkai
Shadowfyre Industries
Posted - 2009.09.07 04:39:00 - [5]
 

I did a lot of calculations and figured out how much isk I could make refining an hours worth of mining with my Retriever. Figuring out mining each type of mineral it was really suprising that a lot of the lowsec minerals were actually lower profit than the high sec minerals. Plagioclase, Veldspar and Kernite were the best yield, Hedbergite was kind of in the middle on value and Omber and Jaspet are a little more than half the value of Plagioclase and Kernite. Why is there a reason to go into lowsec to mine if the profit isn't as good as in highsec?

Mr Siman
Spawn More Overlords
Posted - 2009.09.07 05:07:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Aramar Morkai
I did a lot of calculations and figured out how much isk I could make refining an hours worth of mining with my Retriever. Figuring out mining each type of mineral it was really suprising that a lot of the lowsec minerals were actually lower profit than the high sec minerals. Plagioclase, Veldspar and Kernite were the best yield, Hedbergite was kind of in the middle on value and Omber and Jaspet are a little more than half the value of Plagioclase and Kernite. Why is there a reason to go into lowsec to mine if the profit isn't as good as in highsec?


You must be new here. At least you did your homework. :) See the post above you for a meaningful reply.

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2009.09.07 13:36:00 - [7]
 

The failed prior boost to Jaspet shows that playing with composition isn't the answer. They need to instead work on the total yield in lower sec status space on all ore types. Literally better ore instead of different ores.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.07 19:37:00 - [8]
 

Quote:
Literally better ore instead of different ores.


No one is suggesting that new kinds of ore, if offered, would increase the value of Jaspet. There isn't an economically prudent way to increase the value of the ore was the point. The many new kinds of ore were suggested merely for variety sake and to spur enough complexity to be more interesting.




wickedpheonix
Caldari
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
31ST Reliables Division
Posted - 2009.09.07 19:53:00 - [9]
 

How to fix:

1) Add a new ore, example "Limgratar"
2) This ore yields a small amount of a new min, example "Limgratium"
3) This ore is low-sec only.
4) This min cannot be attained through any other means i.e. reprocessing mission loot
4) All ships now require X amount of Limgratium to manufacture - small deduction of other minerals so total cost of ship remains approximately the same
5) Wait
6) Profit!

Side bonus: piracy is fixed too

Medwynd
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.07 19:57:00 - [10]
 

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of system similar to reactions where new better types could be produced through the combination of two existing minerals.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.09.08 03:01:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Lord Fitz
The failed prior boost to Jaspet shows that playing with composition isn't the answer. They need to instead work on the total yield in lower sec status space on all ore types. Literally better ore instead of different ores.


What price boost to Jaspet? Did CCP change its mineral contents? If yes, when?

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2009.09.08 14:16:00 - [12]
 

The *only* advantages to mining in low sec:

1) Belts are virtually untouched and are HUGE
2) IIRC, exploration in low sec can yield a few of the 0.0 ores such as Dark Ochre or Gneiss.
3) Zero competition.

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2009.09.08 14:58:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
The *only* advantages to mining in low sec:
Go find a dead end quiet low sec and then scan out a wormhole and mine in that.

People passing through won't see some people from an indie corp in local and start hunting you down.

Mining at a low sec belt is pretty much suicide, though if you're scanning for a wormhole and find a grav site at least you have a chance to spot the probes on your scanner.

Enthral
Posted - 2009.09.08 16:12:00 - [14]
 

You can't make an ore more valuable by increasing its quantity or the quantity of minerals it contains. The market will simply adjust, lowering the value of the minerals (and therefore, the ore) in response to the increased availability.

CCP would need to redistribute the mineral build requirements for everything, decreasing the demand for the lower end minerals and increasing the demand for the higher end minerals.

Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
Posted - 2009.09.08 18:01:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
The *only* advantages to mining in low sec:

1) Belts are virtually untouched and are HUGE
2) IIRC, exploration in low sec can yield a few of the 0.0 ores such as Dark Ochre or Gneiss.
3) Zero competition.


I got a crockite, dark ochre, and spodium belt in .4 so yes Very Happy

and yes the belts in lowsec are mostly HUGE!

Aria Gallaine
Posted - 2009.09.08 20:57:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Enthral
You can't make an ore more valuable by increasing its quantity or the quantity of minerals it contains. The market will simply adjust, lowering the value of the minerals (and therefore, the ore) in response to the increased availability.

CCP would need to redistribute the mineral build requirements for everything, decreasing the demand for the lower end minerals and increasing the demand for the higher end minerals.


Sure you can. Adding Mex to Hedbergite and Hemorphite would strictly increase their value, since they don't contain any. Even if the price of Mex crashed in response, they couldn't lose relative to pre-change. And such a crash would probably raise the value of other minerals to compensate, which helps them out further unless it all winds up in pyerite or megacyte

Just for an example...

Thevlyn
Posted - 2009.09.10 16:46:00 - [17]
 

actually, increasing yield would increase its worth. even if there was a small offset in mineral price. or change the makeup of jaspet, even just adding 1 megacyte to jaspet ( i know they wouldn't) would increase it by 4k or so per refine. But more seriously, giving it a small boost to all of its minerals, maybe lower trit a little, would make it more valuable, which would make lowsec (.3-.4) mining a little more worthwhile. The risk vrs reward should be better. Yes exploration is better in lowsec; that doesnt mean lowsec itself is better. Oh and i said the wrong mineral composition in the first post, which i have corrected. Do the math, it would not affect mineral prices because people would choose to mine jaspet , which gives less of each, instead of some other ore giving more of a certain mineral.

Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2009.09.10 22:15:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Korizan on 10/09/2009 22:16:05
I must admit the numbers for different ores per hour are pretty surprising using Just T1 Crystals
Granted these are perfect condition numbers so they are higher then reality but the point is look @ the ratio's between them and which ones pull in more ISK per hour.

Jaspet_______6,872,015.88 ISK
Veldspar____11,355,324.32 ISK
Scordite____11,024,280.10 ISK
Pyroxeres____9,959,456.14 ISK
Kernite_____12,349,375.24 ISK
Omber________7,034,547.76 ISK
Plagioclase_13,192,803.63 ISK
Arkonor_____78,946,559.86 ISK
Bistot______59,078,911.25 ISK
Dark Ochre__19,797,941.66 ISK
Gneiss______20,450,566.99 ISK
Hedbergite___7,207,774.81 ISK
Hemorphite___7,073,198.63 ISK
Spodumain___22,538,482.87 ISK


Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.11 17:59:00 - [19]
 

What has to be solved is not one of the smaller symptoms (Jaspet profitability), but the problem itself.

That main problem is that mineral prices are kept in an artificial straitjacket by insurance. This keeps the price for a certain 'basket' of minerals at a minimum price, meaning that if one goes up, another will go down in price.

Another major part of the problem is that a very large percentage of minerals are not made from mining, but from L4 mission loot, and that totally messes the mineral market even more.

Insurance need to be removed (or based on actual ship price), and basic T1 loot from missions should be removed. Only then will there be a chance to balance the mining and mineral market properly.

Albert O'Balsam
Posted - 2009.09.12 09:50:00 - [20]
 

things need a rework - no arguments from me there - but a quick fix could be to simply adjust the balance of minerals from the 3 low sec ores (jasp hemo and hed).

In my experience mining for production always gives a surplus of mex and iso. So take these minerals out of thes 3 ores and replace them with something more valuable. A bit more zyd would be good, and maybe even a small amount of mega in hed would be a posibility. also pye would be better than trit in these ores.

This may not openly increase the value of these low sec ores by very much, but would increase there potential to industrial players

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.09.12 22:15:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Insurance need to be removed (or based on actual ship price), and basic T1 loot from missions should be removed. Only then will there be a chance to balance the mining and mineral market properly.


I suggested, over a year ago, that insurance payouts in ISK should be replaced with payouts in mineral vouchers.

If your insured ship gets blown up, you get a physical in-game document, a voucher that can be redeemed, at certain stations, for a percentage of the minerals required to make your ship, e.g. from 30% for the lowest grade of insurance, and up to 90% for the highest grade.

When a player's insured ship blows up, he gets the voucher, and he can then either sell the voucher on the in-game market (e.g. "Drake Voucher"), or he can physically transport the voucher to one of the stations owned by the insurance company and redeem it for minerals.

Actually, as an added detail, there should be a number of vouchers, each worth 10% of the required minerals. Thus if your ship is insured to 40%, you get 4 vouchers, or if your ship is insured to 90%, you get 9 vouchers. That's much simpler, than to have half a dozen vouchers for each ship type each of a given percentage rating.

foobarx
Posted - 2009.09.13 01:05:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
The *only* advantages to mining in low sec:

1) Belts are virtually untouched and are HUGE
2) IIRC, exploration in low sec can yield a few of the 0.0 ores such as Dark Ochre or Gn eiss.
3) Zero competition.

  1. Lowsec belts are, as another commenter pointed out, suicide. The only way you'll survive is to find an empty system and then dock up whenever someone jumps in. It's not a very efficient way to mine.
  2. Exploration sites are only a tiny bit safer. With the new probing system you can literally get probed out in six seconds. Not quite as dangerous as the belts, but nearly so.
  3. Zero competition from other miners, sure. But you need to worry about "competition" from pirates, and worse, unless you're mining in a busy system (fail), you won't get a good price for your minerals. You can't just load up a freighter and haul them to Jita.


1)

Ozone71
Caldari
Taishi Combine
Posted - 2009.09.13 15:51:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Ozone71 on 13/09/2009 15:54:24
Originally by: Salpad

I suggested, over a year ago, that insurance payouts in ISK should be replaced with payouts in mineral vouchers.

If your insured ship gets blown up, you get a physical in-game document, a voucher that can be redeemed, at certain stations, for a percentage of the minerals required to make your ship, e.g. from 30% for the lowest grade of insurance, and up to 90% for the highest grade.



I suggested a similar idea, where you get back a contract for the ship you lost with 30 to 90% of it paid off already...

The problem someone pointed out to me (and it is the same issue with yours) is that you are cutting out the middlemen. You give someone isk, they then go and buy the minerals from a miner or a completed ship from a manufacturer.

Buy giving the commodity to them directly rather than having them buy it, in effect, does someone out of a job and impacts on the general economy.

As to the OP, there will always be a "lowest" value ore, so there is no validity in improving the value of one ore over another just because its at the bottom of the heap.

Ore value is driven by market demands and the low sec ores, which are not in high demand for ship building, and have a decent supply from high sec loot refining, have their relative value reduced.

Insurance is also a problem that artificially props up T1 ship value, making the high sec ores that are needed to build them more valuable than they should be.

Remove insurance, kill off insurance fraud, and let ship values will fall to pure market driven levels. Then you will see minerals values adjust and maybe a small relative rise in Jaspet.

If you don't already know, insurance payouts are fixed, so if a ship value drops to a low enough level you can make money by building it, insuring it and then destroying it for the payout. This provides an artificial lower limit on ship pricing as no one in their right mind would sell a ship for a value lower than what they could get by simply blowing it up.

Brenten007
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:38:00 - [24]
 

How's about ultra dense ore and ice of each type.

Only exist in -0.0 space 5 jumps in from the nearest secure sec.
10 - 1000 times (or whatever number is good for you) the minerals per batch (give a good reason to go into low sec and mine).
- Makes cap ship building easier, replacement equipment, and keeping POS running cheaper.
- Plus it, increase the willingness to actually go out into low sec and even try to own it. It also gives a good reason to fight tooth and nail for the solar system.
- Thus, we can spend more time on whats really important. FIGHTING AND BLOWING STUFF (or ****) UP!!!! Laughing just the way we all like it to be spending our time and not have to worry too much about logistics.

No change in volume.

Plus, I hope to get some of the other orca group miners out of high sec.

Minerals flooding the market wouldn't matter especially when trying to build Capital ships or Capital ship Parts along with BS and BC. They are your mineral hogs. Plus we spend too much time mining and not fighting in this game.

I sign on into Ylandoki one morning after reboot 8AM EST, check the belts and its pretty full, by 12 pm half the belt is gone, and by 6 pm all 26 belts are wipe clean (Literally!!!). I wonder are they all bots or something. I check on the market for tritanium and you see ~400 million for sale for ~4.00 isk a piece. Don't get me wrong, mining is a good business provided there is an astroid left.

Now, I have to leave lvl 1 missions open so that I can do some actual mining. Its annoying if its always 1 jump away from where I want to be. But its private.

I hope they update mining a little especially making BS and Cap ships.


 

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