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blankseplocked Learning skill - epic fail
 
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Sinastara
Posted - 2009.09.08 19:11:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Sinastara on 08/09/2009 19:16:16
Edited by: Sinastara on 08/09/2009 19:13:20
1. Spaceship Command IV (1 day, 1 hour, 52 minutes, 17 seconds)
2. Industry I (10 minutes, 25 seconds)
3. Industry II (48 minutes, 32 seconds)
4. Industry III (4 hours, 34 minutes, 22 seconds)
5. Industry IV (1 day, 1 hour, 52 minutes, 17 seconds)
6. Industry V (6 days, 2 hours, 21 minutes, 2 seconds)
7. Science IV (1 day, 1 hour, 52 minutes, 17 seconds)
8. Mining III (4 hours, 34 minutes, 22 seconds)
9. Mining IV (1 day, 1 hour, 52 minutes, 17 seconds)
10. Astrogeology I (31 minutes, 15 seconds)
11. Astrogeology II (2 hours, 25 minutes, 32 seconds)
12. Astrogeology III (13 hours, 43 minutes, 12 seconds)
13. Astrogeology IV (3 days, 5 hours, 36 minutes, 52 seconds)
14. Astrogeology V (18 days, 7 hours, 3 minutes, 7 seconds)
15. Exhumers I (52 minutes, 5 seconds)
16. Exhumers II (4 hours, 2 minutes, 35 seconds)
17. Exhumers III (22 hours, 52 minutes)
18. Mining Barge I (41 minutes, 40 seconds)
19. Mining Barge II (3 hours, 14 minutes, 2 seconds)
20. Mining Barge III (18 hours, 17 minutes, 37 seconds)
21. Mining Barge IV (4 days, 7 hours, 29 minutes, 10 seconds)
22. Instant Recall I (10 minutes, 25 seconds)
23. Analytical Mind I (9 minutes, 36 seconds)
24. Learning I (9 minutes, 15 seconds)
25. Instant Recall II (42 minutes, 18 seconds)
26. Analytical Mind II (39 minutes, 23 seconds)
27. Learning II (38 minutes, 4 seconds)
28. Instant Recall III (3 hours, 31 minutes, 3 seconds)
29. Analytical Mind III (3 hours, 17 minutes, 51 seconds)
30. Learning III (3 hours, 11 minutes, 52 seconds)
31. Instant Recall IV (1 day, 11 hours, 30 minutes, 4 seconds)
32. Eidetic Memory I (40 minutes, 25 seconds)
33. Eidetic Memory II (2 hours, 58 minutes, 7 seconds)
34. Eidetic Memory III (15 hours, 55 minutes, 49 seconds)
35. Analytical Mind IV (1 day, 4 hours, 34 minutes, 27 seconds)
36. Logic I (36 minutes, 17 seconds)
37. Logic II (2 hours, 40 minutes, 44 seconds)
38. Logic III (14 hours, 26 minutes, 54 seconds)
39. Learning IV (1 day, 2 hours, 2 minutes, 3 seconds)
40. Iron Will I (10 minutes, 17 seconds)
41. Iron Will II (47 minutes, 56 seconds)
42. Iron Will III (4 hours, 30 minutes, 59 seconds)
43. Iron Will IV (1 day, 1 hour, 33 minutes, 7 seconds)
44. Spatial Awareness I (10 minutes, 17 seconds)
45. Spatial Awareness II (47 minutes, 56 seconds)
46. Spatial Awareness III (4 hours, 30 minutes, 59 seconds)
47. Spatial Awareness IV (1 day, 1 hour, 33 minutes, 7 seconds)
48. Empathy I (10 minutes, 17 seconds)
49. Focus I (43 minutes, 24 seconds)
50. Focus II (3 hours, 10 minutes, 15 seconds)
51. Focus III (16 hours, 56 minutes, 18 seconds)
52. Clarity I (35 minutes, 36 seconds)
53. Clarity II (2 hours, 37 minutes, 46 seconds)
54. Clarity III (14 hours, 10 minutes, 51 seconds)
55. Mining Barge V (24 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes, 32 seconds)

Completion: 11/21/2009 3:24:05 AM

Now You get a hulk 18 days later, which in the grand scheme of things isnt much later, but the isk you can make in the first few days and the fact that you arent bored out of your mind more than makes up for that.

Hauler Mawles
Posted - 2009.09.08 23:08:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Sinastara

Now You get a hulk 18 days later, which in the grand scheme of things isnt much later, but the isk you can make in the first few days and the fact that you arent bored out of your mind more than makes up for that.


This is pretty much the key right here. Suck it up and train something that can keep you busy long enough to knock off the learning skills be it a battlecruiser/retriever/whatever.

Chathe
Amarr
Posted - 2009.09.08 23:12:00 - [63]
 

First off,

+5 implants aren't required to play, in fact most folks that are going to burn that ammount of cash are going to have +3's ( with effect )

Max Training skills are not required to play the game, some of them have hugh pay off times before you could be "at the same place SP wise " prior to starting them.

For real characters I do recommend 4 on the basics you're using 3 on the advances you're using, and a set of +3's as a goal , then find a niche and train it until you're really good at it, then come back and look at the learning skills when you decide to go after different niches.

Jacquote Delahaye
Nex Exercitus
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.09 12:30:00 - [64]
 

Starting playing this game a few weeks ago, I created a character and logged in. Before doing anything, I took a while to talk to people in the corp I was part of (School of Applied Knowledge), I read these forums, I talked to people in the local system, and talked to people in the rookie help channel.

One thing that struck me was that amongst the usual asshats that you get in every part of life, especially in games, there were a large number of helpful people that tended to agree with each other.

Anyhow, by the end of my first day in game, I'd been familiarised with Eve-HQ, Evemon, been throughly drilled in the importance of learning skills and made several pcontacts that were happy to answer questions.

My approach then was to train the basic skills I needed to outfit a frigate, and then plough on with the learning skills, and spent my time in a combination of flying around, doing missions, and chatting/watching youtube videos.

Then I took probably the best decision of all in the short time I've been playing - I got out of highsec.

Now, with 1.8 million skillpoints, mostly learning, I have joined a corporation, and moved out to Stain. And I am loving the game, and I like to think I'm far from useless to the people I play with.

Sure I've spent a month nearly on learning skills - but I'm living and making money in 0.0 with the skills I trained in about 12 hours day 1.

3 months before you can play and have fun - I *really* don't think so.

Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.09 13:53:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Nicski
Again people haven't grasped what I am saying.

I have been playing the game for the last month, not sitting in the station. I have repeatidly gone off the optimal training path to learn support and ship command skills to get me in a Drake before completing the Learning training. I don't need advice on what order to train anything.

My problem is that my two friends have both binned the game. They binned it because they were both experienced MMORPG players who took the time to learn the game mechanics and realised the optimal path to success was to NOT play the game for 3 months. However, before that 3 months was up, they had found another interest.

The issue is that this game is losing Noobs because of this mechanic and by the time I am in my Titan, the game may have folded. Sadest of all is that the Noobs we are losing tend to be the more experienced MMORPG players from other games who do understand game training mechanics and skill sets - the sort of people who would rise to be the better players.

People have expressed opinions as to how important these skills are and what can be left until later and how everyone has had to go through this process. Some have mentioned that this is an 'Elitist' game and that the process is designed to cull off the less dedicated players at the start - this is complete rubbish, CCP are a business here to make money and that means continually attracting new players into the game. If there is a mechanic that drives noobs out of the game early it is because they have made a mistake as simple as that. To get all protective of that mechanic because you had to go through that process is just small minded - ask yourself this, if CCP pulls the plug on this game tomorrow cause not enough people are playing it to pay the wage bill, how smug will you feel about all those SPs you earnt the hard way?


if there was ever, EVER any time a person who could not see past there own nose, made me want to bash my head into a wall untill I can no longer stand or my brains come out, its people like you.

"Again people haven't grasped what I am saying."

Because you have no idea what you are saying.

"My problem is that my two friends have both binned the game. They binned it because they were both experienced MMORPG players who took the time to learn the game mechanics and realised the optimal path to success was to NOT play the game for 3 months. However, before that 3 months was up, they had found another interest."

Lord god son, please, please,plase go back and look at the time it takes to train these skills. PLEASE!!!

I started plaung 8-13-09 its 9-9-09, LESS THAN A MONTH.
I have all learning skills at 4/3 ( besides chrisma 4/0 ) I have Cal/Gal/Mimtar frigs at 3+ I have gal/cal/ crusers at 3 I have a reteriver ( basic skills for it though ) I have basic drone skills.


I have a set of +3 implants, I have a itty 3 with 10K hold, I am running level 2 missions.
I am less than a week and a 1/2 from learning gal/cal/min BC's and if I wanted I could be flying a BS in under 3 weeks.
They might not be fitted well, they might not have the best of the best.
But I am flying them.



Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.09 14:17:00 - [66]
 

"My problem is that my two friends have both binned the game. They binned it because they were both experienced MMORPG players who took the time to learn the game mechanics and realised the optimal path to success was to NOT play the game for 3 months. However, before that 3 months was up, they had found another interest."

Read,

We want to min/max and be in the top teir asap, but seeing as how Eve is not like WoW in that you can be "max level" in under a month and have great gear, because eve does not have levels so to speak, and those who have played longer will always have a edge over those who just started.

Sounds like they are the type of people that wow is so full of and why I finally quit WoW, and the same started to happen in Warhammer and LOTRO.

No you can't raid with us, your gear sucks, no you cant do this with us, you dont have the gear, whne the gear you need is from the raid they are doing.

There is no "most efficient training path" because in time, you can learn anything, its just a matter or when, and how long.

"The net result is that to follow the most efficient skill training path a noob should ideally create his account, run level 1 and 2 missions for a week and then go back to playing WOW for the next 3 months. How ridiculous is that?"


Completey ridiculous, that you would think I have to do things like everyone else, must min/max, must be 100% or nothing at all.

If I can do all I did in under a month, everyone else can too, it does not take 1 month to get learning to 4/3 and be in a cruser.
In fact if I had not trained such a broad base of skills, like gunnery and missles and drones and mining, I could be MUCH farther down one path.
I have pretty much all the basic skills covered, and in a cruser running level 2's in under a month.

I wish I could link my skills here, but I can't from work.


"all you get is the abilty to start learning efficiently"

I would call a 100% boost in training times, and 2, yes 2 free nural remaps pretty dang efficient right off the bat.
First time I played eve way back in 04-05 there was no 100% boost.

" started this game 29 days ago with 2 other friends, both have now dropped the game - they intended to only leave temperarily while their learning training completed, but they have got into AON or some other MMO game and have cancelled their EVE subscription."

They most likely would not have lasted long any, I keep a full plate, at the moment I am playing RB6-V2, MTW2 and DOW collection.
nothing foreces anyone to play every day for 6+ hours, take a break go out side, do something else?


"Now I am sure some people will say that you don't have to leave for those 3 months, there is plenty to do in EVE in those months. Well I have gone down that path and I have to say that after 29 days it is wearing thin. I am running level 3 missions now in a Drake (further deviating from the ideal training path) and the same couple of dozen or so missions keep repeating themselves over and over. "


Right, because MMOS like aon and WoW never give the same missions over and over again.
and there you go with that Ideal path, make your own path.

"Then I left the corp so that I could at least earn ISK running those boring missions without fear of being ganked by those "War Targets"."

Dont play on a open PvP server then on WOW or AON.


"Of course I could try, trading, mining, manufacturing or a whole host of other things right? Wrong! I'm still waiting for those f***ing learning skills to complete, can't do squat until then without shooting myself in the foot"

you can mine as soon as you get in the game, you ship come's with a mining lazer.

"I desperately want to hang on until I have got enough skills to do PvP, get into 0.0 space and large fleet actions, but I have to say that at this moment in time: This game sucks for Noobs."

any WoW doesnt? Aon doesnt?
wanna go to 0.0 join a 0.0 corp that takes in new players, simple as that.

Savannah Heat
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.09 14:25:00 - [67]
 

Well I recently re-rolled. Mainly because I didnt like my old char, but am now a lot more knowledgable about EVE. Since I get 100% boost to training skills until 1.6mil sp, I training all Learning skills to 4, then getting my Cybernetics to 5 for my Implants.

This way, I feel a lot more free and less cluttered than my old character.

Chathe
Amarr
Posted - 2009.09.09 17:12:00 - [68]
 

Quote:
My problem is that my two friends have both binned the game. They binned it because they were both experienced MMORPG players who took the time to learn the game mechanics and realised the optimal path to success was to NOT play the game for 3 months. However, before that 3 months was up, they had found another interest


Eve isn't for everyone.

And ... your friends didn't actually look inot the game mechanics all that well.

Learning skills are useful, but .. the top end skills take a while to pay off.

See lots of posts, on the actual time.

+5 implants are great but again are they worth the investment in SP recouped let alone the cost of replacing them should you get blown up.. it takes almost a year to make up the difference between having +4's and having +5's in.

So your friends failed at understanding how skills are useful over time in the game.

I'm not saying it's not cool to get the 1/2 hour quicker training time on a level 5 for having the extra +1, but it's really not worth not playing the game at all.

Eli Porter
Posted - 2009.09.09 21:28:00 - [69]
 

Just skill up for a ship that will keep it fun for you while the learning skills rack up.

I personally took breaks between training learning skills. So start off with 3 to all basics, train some tasty stuff like cruisers and ninja salvaging skills for a few days to keep the income going, then train learning skills to 4 and buy advanced skill books with your money from Cruiser missions and ninja salvaging. Train those to 3 and skill up for a Battlecruiser. Now train up your support skills and perhaps even train for a Battleship and do lvl 4's. Then go for 5/4 learning skills and +4 Implants.

That's how I did it. Not too painful and you don't get the feeling you're missing out.

Elora Danzik
Caldari
Idiots In Spaceships
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.09.10 20:17:00 - [70]
 

First: get EveMon.

Second: Decided what you want to train for.

Third: Click option to optimize training. It will tell you if a learning skill will shorten a time or not.

For one outrageous skill plan. It would've saved me 45 days by training learning skills to 5/4 or 5 is a couple of cases.

Granted this was for something I have yet to train. However, EveMon will give you the reason you will eventually "need" learning skills.

Jashan T'Okara
Posted - 2009.09.10 20:31:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Nicski
A game that continually increases the barrier that noobs have to climb over to get into the game is eventually going to fail through a lack of new blood coming into the game.


OH NOES! EVE IS DYING!?

Lythane
Posted - 2009.09.10 23:02:00 - [72]
 

I'm not a noob, hate WOW and I agree with original poster.

A game based on patience is no game at all. While some people are content to spend time training skills that are useless except to train other skills, others want to PLAY the game. I would argue that those willing to put forth a year time and payment commitment to a game for the sole purpose of having an "optimized" skill plan are somewhat screwed up. Games should be fun, not an RL like ladder of paying metaphorical dues.

Something truly should be done about the skill mechanic. I would suggesting mixing the current system with many games that involve actual skill and giving them significant wait. I would also suggest removing learning skills and allow those bonuses to be accumulated by doing the activities that the skills associated with the attributes support.

Games are fun, not work. If they feel like work, then the game has a problem.

Alexis Dream
Posted - 2009.09.10 23:16:00 - [73]
 

I'll be a very happy camper when this whole "Epic Fail" thing goes out of style.Evil or Very Mad

Tig
Posted - 2009.09.11 01:48:00 - [74]
 

Lets look at some facts,

You have played the game for 29 days.
You are flying a BC.
You are doing level 3 missions.
You are not happy because of the training time of learning skills.
You are lonesome for your friends because they left eve because they can not accept not being a min/max type.
You are bored because you are getting the same missions over and over.

All in all I would not say you have done badly.

But lets look at a few other facts.
4/3 attributes/adv attributes + learning 4 skill from start takes less than 5d 8h if you do not train charisma. Yes not training charisma unless you are training for a career as a merchant/leadership/CEO/Social butterfly. It is not needed yet. Add cyber 1 to the mix and you can now use +3 implants, if you plug in a +3 int and memory implant you shave 20h from that 5d 8h.

I took a look at evemon with a character of mine with 5/4 learning, +5 implants and learning 5, She was also remapped for +10 int/+4 memory for the fastest possible support skill learning, (this is truly a hanger queen while doing the fastest skill training possible). It took adding int/mem skills over 414 days and she will save just over 3 hours of time. Please do a value check, 9d 20h of training to save 3h in 414 days of training that has no way of being improved without training logic to 5. If eidetic memory 5 is added training time increases to 420d 3h.

I have played a number of MMO what I had to get used in Eve is training is a factor of time, learning can shorten the time, but make it reasonable. I was used to grinding levels and then grinding for gear/rank. Ask yourself if 3 hours saved in 414 days of training worth all most 10 days in perfect circumstances of your time now? Eve is different from other games, time played does not equal advancing your character, it equates more with being able to earn isk so you can afford to do what you want to do. The up side is your character is learning while you are at work or school, spending time with friends or family in real life.

Your two friends lost interest in eve because they have the belief you need to spend a solid 90 days on learning skills before you can play. No that is not true. Look at yourself in 29 days you have advanced to be able to fly a BC and are able to do level 3 missions. You have a way to earn isk. I do not have a friend in eve that I fly with that I have played any MMO with. OMG what did I do, simple I made some new friends, it is not hard in eve, there are a lot of good people that play as well as just as many a$$hats.

I am bored doing the same missions over and over and over. Welcome to the world of gaming, lets pick on wow a little (that is usually funTwisted Evil). End game when I left was about faction grinding and raiding and PvP, at least for me. Nothing like getting raid groups together, trying to get the same people together week after week after week. So you can go in a instance kill mobs and have a shot at getting a piece of gear to drop to have a another player out roll or out bid you for it. Now faction grinding was even funner with daily quests that did not change or cycled between 3-5 different quests. And why did we do daily quests, so we could afford to raid, skill crafting, gain faction for items or buy mounts. What ever game you were playing had to be wearing thin if you and your friends gave eve a try.

CCP has tried to address the problem of new people coming in the game. 1.6mil SP trained twice as fast. That allows you to do 4/3 learning and still have close to 1 mil SP to get started with, or 4/4 and still enough room for a start or just gain skills and worry about learning later. 2 neural remaps, and start off with a balance of attributes. I would not mind seeing new characters gifted with the basic learning books, but really the noob missions sets give a fair amount of isk while someone learns to fly and earning them has advantages.

Loriana Oreless
Posted - 2009.09.11 22:16:00 - [75]
 

Sorry, i had to skip page 2 since my brain almost jumped out and facepalmed me due to lack of nerve to read yet another post regarding this issue.

I meen... whattahell!! Shocked Why is it that so many people cant understand the joy and self-appreciation of actually achieving something over time? What is it with the WOW-generation that makes all of them think that getting it all served on a silver platter, as soons as you click next to start the game, is the best thing ever? Have you never have to work for anything your whole life? Is your mother still making your breakfast when youre 30?
JESUS im sick of that mentality.. If you cant handle not being a supergod within the first 2 hours of gametime, then dont play EVE.
Its like playing doom on godmode... what da **** is the point? wheres the challenge?

BTW... If you realy are that desperate, there is always a way to "cheat" in EVE also. Just take a peek in the character bazaar.. Anyone can buy a character that someone actually has been "growing" for many years. That function makes me sick as well.

It is like cheating when ure playing freecell alone.

Dumb ****ing spoiled idiot kids!!!

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.11 23:22:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Lythane
I'm not a noob, hate WOW and I agree with original poster.

A game based on patience is no game at all. While some people are content to spend time training skills that are useless except to train other skills, others want to PLAY the game. I would argue that those willing to put forth a year time and payment commitment to a game for the sole purpose of having an "optimized" skill plan are somewhat screwed up. Games should be fun, not an RL like ladder of paying metaphorical dues.

Something truly should be done about the skill mechanic. I would suggesting mixing the current system with many games that involve actual skill and giving them significant wait. I would also suggest removing learning skills and allow those bonuses to be accumulated by doing the activities that the skills associated with the attributes support.

Games are fun, not work. If they feel like work, then the game has a problem.


You, like the OP, miss the point.

I'll try and spell it out as clearly as possible, but you'll probably find it difficult if you're importing a lot of baggage from other MMOs.

In EvE, you can play the game.


Minimaxing your stats isn't playing the game.
Having the most SP isn't playing the game.
Getting the most SP/Hr isn't playing the game.

Actually doing things is playng the game.

Eternal Sophia
Minmatar
Ascendent.
Posted - 2009.09.12 03:01:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Eternal Sophia on 12/09/2009 03:02:14
Originally by: Malcanis

Actually doing things is playng the game.

I think you are missing the fact that those 3 factors are connected to what you are saying. In other words you can't really do things until you train the proper skills for it. For example and it's a real one, I want to fly Tengu and do Level 4 missions in it. But before that happens i need to train a bunch of support skills in Engineering Electronics Mechanic. Then of course I'd need Spaceship Command category skills and Subsystem skills, HAM and HAM Spec skills, Warhead Upgrades and many more missile specific skills. In addition I might want to train Social skills in order to increase my LP and Standing gain*.

So as you can see I do need to min-max my stats if I want to achieve my goal in the fastest possible time. Which is also in direct proportion with SP/hr. However having the most SP doesn't really matter because you can have 100mil SP and only be using 20mil of it if you have 80 million SP in science and industry/

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.12 08:49:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Eternal Sophia
Edited by: Eternal Sophia on 12/09/2009 03:02:14
Originally by: Malcanis

Actually doing things is playng the game.

I think you are missing the fact that those 3 factors are connected to what you are saying. In other words you can't really do things until you train the proper skills for it. For example and it's a real one, I want to fly Tengu and do Level 4 missions in it. But before that happens i need to train a bunch of support skills in Engineering Electronics Mechanic. Then of course I'd need Spaceship Command category skills and Subsystem skills, HAM and HAM Spec skills, Warhead Upgrades and many more missile specific skills. In addition I might want to train Social skills in order to increase my LP and Standing gain*.

So as you can see I do need to min-max my stats if I want to achieve my goal in the fastest possible time. Which is also in direct proportion with SP/hr. However having the most SP doesn't really matter because you can have 100mil SP and only be using 20mil of it if you have 80 million SP in science and industry/


Damb, it's a shame that there's nothing worth doing in the meantime, right?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.12 10:04:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 12/09/2009 10:06:20
Originally by: Eternal Sophia
I want to fly Tengu and do Level 4 missions in it. But before that happens i need to train a bunch of support skills in Engineering Electronics Mechanic. Then of course I'd need Spaceship Command category skills and Subsystem skills, HAM and HAM Spec skills, Warhead Upgrades and many more missile specific skills. In addition I might want to train Social skills in order to increase my LP and Standing gain*.
…and yet, you don't actually need any of those to play the game. You can play the game just fine until you get access to them. When you do get them, you can continue to play the game.

You're confusing an ever-changing, reachable and therefore — by necessity – replaceable personal goal with "the game". The game is what happens while you pursue those goals.

It's kind of like monopoly that way… Wink

Korovyov
Cool Story Bro
Posted - 2009.09.14 15:47:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Nicski
WordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsWordsLOL


Cool story, bro.

I've gone through taking all the advanced and basic learning skills to level 5 twice now. I don't want to sound like a harsh ****, but there's no other way to put this.

If you can't figure out how to get into a battleship and run level 3 missions with your brain turned off in the first two months without getting hung up on the learning skills, I want you to get out of my internet spaceships game.

If two weeks after AFK'ing level 3's in your battleship, you aren't earning so much ISK you're buying a PLEX every week off the market because you're hung up on the learning skills, I want you to get out of my internet spaceship game.

This game is just so hard... but enjoy being a doorknob and wasting time on getting your learning skills up before everything else.

Nubzone Camper
Posted - 2009.09.15 06:11:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Nubzone Camper on 15/09/2009 06:11:22
Training suks.

Lashmar
Posted - 2009.09.15 14:41:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Lashmar on 15/09/2009 14:42:02
It all depends how you look at it.

If you want to be the best yesterday, then yes, learning skills would suck. For me they were amazing fun to learn. Trying to find the time to stop getting better now (an instant payoff) for getting better long term, i found really refreshing. It led to me seeing them as a bit of a challenge that needed to be worked in, not something to hate.

As others have said, this isnt WoW. I've played both, and im glad this one takes some brains and cant be min/maxed into oblivion. Eve gives you options, you dont have to train learning. My goal was to have fun, and get all learning skills to 4/3, which i did... was it the most time efficient way to do it? No... Did i have more fun doing it my way than sitting in a space station and complaining on the forums? You betcha!

Edit: Eve good, typing bad

ropnes
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:43:00 - [83]
 

Lots of people trying to make arguments for why learning skills aren't bad

No one is even close to making a case for why they're good

They're in the game because they're in the game. You can't just remove them, but I'm pretty sure that CCP have expressed things resembling regret when it comes to these skills.

What if you added waiting opportunities in other parts of the game? Wait 10 minutes and get the better loot? Wait 10 minutes and get more cap after a jump? People would do that but that doesn't mean it's good

Giving players the choice to increase their learning speed is good, implants are good, but learning skills are quite terrible from a game design perspective. But we're stuck with them so that's that

Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.16 01:04:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 16/09/2009 01:16:38
PMFJI

First off, I've been playing EVE since beta, so I guess I'm an EVE vet. Based on this ...

Learning skills are, for the most part, a historical addition but something that separates a dedicated long time player from the "insta EVE wanna be's", even new players can be dedicated (so I've been told).

If you are playing EVE for the long haul, you will benefit from the learning skills but if you are only here to see what it is like, then you probably won't.

If you want to have fun, train just about everything that takes your fancy and forget about "skill planner proposals", just do what you feel happy to do.

Train up learning skills as YOU see fit, but primarily HAVE FUN in the EVE universe.

You think that training basic learning skills to level 4 is a pain in the preverbial before being allowed to train advanced learning skills ? Then look again, you used to have level 5 in the basics to train the advanced ones. So CCP already went soft on that already.

If you want to remove the learning skills, then the people that have already invested RL time and RL cash (account costs) would have to be reimbursed, be it in account time, SPs or some other way.

We were all n00bs at one time, and the "older noobs" didn't have double SP training when we started. Or the insane starting SP of just 1 year ago.

Just deal with it, get on with it, and it is still optional if you have even invested 1 single SP in learning.

EDIT

P.S. Having played for 6 years, I think that CCP owes me 6 attribute remaps (stacked at 1 per year), a new option that would have been awesome at the start ... go figure.

Korovyov
Cool Story Bro
Posted - 2009.09.16 03:23:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
If you are playing EVE for the long haul, you will benefit from the learning skills but if you are only here to see what it is like, then you probably won't.

If you want to have fun, train just about everything that takes your fancy and forget about "skill planner proposals", just do what you feel happy to do.

Train up learning skills as YOU see fit, but primarily HAVE FUN in the EVE universe.


This is the polite way of saying it, and should probably be implemented as a pop-up when you buy or train your first learning skill. That way people might not get hung up on them so bad and get an ulcer over it. They could give you a 5 ISK royalty every time it's loaded.

Dr Caymus
Gallente
Applied Technologies Inc
Agents of Fortune
Posted - 2009.09.16 13:54:00 - [86]
 

Well put, Jaabaa ^

Learning skills are a critical part of the long-term plan. Had I not trained learning skills, I'd have about 42 million SP for my 6+ years in the game. Having trained the learning skills, my SP total is a tad higher than that. Epic?...debatable. Fail?...hardly.

And, for reasons already mentioned, there has never been a better time for new players to enter the game. In fact, some of the most fun I've had over the years is starting new characters on a second account. I would encourage all new players to get some help from your more experienced corp mates in developing a training plan that balances functional skills with learning skills, train toward specific "operational" goals, and go have fun.

Rotnac
Caldari
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.09.16 16:17:00 - [87]
 

Counterpoint to OP: Goonswarm, or should I say, Rifterswarm.

Swearte Widfarend
Gallente
Aurora Security
Posted - 2009.09.16 18:51:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Nicski
The problem is that there is precious little in this game at the start to make it fun and logically speaking the most effective strategy would be for a noob to stay docked for the first 90 odd days. A game that continually increases the barrier that noobs have to climb over to get into the game is eventually going to fail through a lack of new blood coming into the game.

Wahhh!

I better tell my friends who have been playing for less than 6 months that they should just quit, leave their 0.0 corps, and go play other games, because they didn't sit in station and train learning for 90 days.

I haven't been a n00b for a while, but I'm pretty sure my first or second day playing I was able to go to losec and get podded in my Velator. What isn't fun about that? Mad

Sure, learning skills aren't fun. You don't have to train them. EVER. But if you are going to play for YEARS this game changes often enough that they add value of their own. This is one of the things that makes EVE a better (IMO) game than WOW or the others - it's got layers, like parfait.

TapThatAssteroid
Posted - 2009.09.16 23:36:00 - [89]
 

Learning skills don't take 90 days.... On this character which happens to be an Alt, I have Learning to 5, and the rest to 4, and I was still in a Hulk 58 days after character creation. As for no PvP before 8 mil SP, wth is wrong with people? I still dont have 8 mil SP on my first character and have participated in PLENTY of pvp. You are type of player I hate to see playing MMO's, the type who wants everything handed to them. Its people like you who want to be the best days after starting to play that are ruining MMO's as soon as they are released. If your 2 friends couldnt take this, they sure as hell are going to hate Aion in the long run, as it is a grindfest.

Nogomojo
Minmatar
Initium Malum
Posted - 2009.09.17 08:55:00 - [90]
 

rank1's to lvl5 rank3's to lvl4 (if u train rank3 to lvl5 ur a faag with no brain)

and then u get +3 implants! +4 if ur semistupids!

or train everything to lvl4 and dont use implants coz ur a pvper!


also! remember! everybody has an opinion! even africans!



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