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Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.09.04 12:27:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: CAREBEARSTAR3
How is the vargur "blowful"? It can do 800 dps (without drones) at 65km with tracking near medium turrets, while being able to easily tank any l4. The only problem with it imo is that it can't really switch damage type (joke for minmatar), and it consumes lots of ammo.


its is not blowful for itself. But when you comapre it to the golem or the paladin it surely is.

I use one, but only because I bought it for 670M.

Its fast and the main running time advantage you get from it is from the movement between warp in and the next gates. Even so it looses time with its short range (you cannot realistically make a GOOD arty fit).

At the end it IS SUPERIOR to a NORMAL raven on isk per hour when fighting serpentis. But its inferior to golem and paladin on most situations. Except when fightign angels. then its a match for the golem.

Merbusent
Posted - 2009.09.04 12:32:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Merbusent on 04/09/2009 12:48:24
Going by speed once i've tractored just about all the wreks usually the last ship pops thats just about my kind of speed, if as they say Dominix's, golems, CN Ravens and Ginnea Foul do this job faster you will be clicking faster than a isk farmer on crack and generally not enjoying yourself.

Edit, also if your finding range is an issue then your tractors will out of range too, the modest thing a vargur is velocity add a few zor and cy implant you can top 635m/s in deadspace 438m/s on golem thats with republic fleet afterburner. I understand lewt prices have dropped perhapse the emphesis on speed is no issue.

foobarx
Posted - 2009.09.04 12:49:00 - [33]
 

Quote:
...also if your finding range is an issue then your tractors will out of range too...

This is an important point, and it's another reason I do mostly Angels missions. Using a Marauder against rats that won't come into tractor range is a waste.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.04 15:06:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 04/09/2009 15:13:17
Originally by: Duries Kain
yes
for angel missions nothing beats it tbh.



Just clearing something up quick. This isn't true. A golem still beats the Vargur at what the Vargur is best at. But if you intend on salvaging Angel missions, it's a close #2. People seem to forget that the Golem can do 100% Explosive damage, and do the same DPS from 0-40KM.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Vargur. But it is in essence nothing more than a Maelstrom with 11 hislots and better tracking.

And not to derail the thread, but...

Originally by: AstroPhobic
Quick reference, optimal + falloff = 38.6% of EFT DPS.

Optimal = 102% of EFT DPS.



Astro, have you seen this? (EDIT: His response is right below my post, but he didn't quote it so I'm starting there.)

If EFT really is incorrect, I'd kind of like to prove it to Gripen so he fixes it. Could you link me the evidence for saying DPS is 38% at falloff? (Besides the player added damage formula in the wiki?)

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.09.04 15:33:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored

Astro, have you seen this? (EDIT: His response is right below my post, but he didn't quote it so I'm starting there.)

If EFT really is incorrect, I'd kind of like to prove it to Gripen so he fixes it. Could you link me the evidence for saying DPS is 38% at falloff? (Besides the player added damage formula in the wiki?)


Yes, and he's wrong. 3000 shots is perfectly fine for determining whether a formula is wrong. And his formula is wrong, according to the mass of evidence gathered in http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=114333#114333

-Liang

NoNah
Posted - 2009.09.04 15:35:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 04/09/2009 15:13:17
Originally by: Duries Kain
yes
for angel missions nothing beats it tbh.



Just clearing something up quick. This isn't true. A golem still beats the Vargur at what the Vargur is best at. But if you intend on salvaging Angel missions, it's a close #2. People seem to forget that the Golem can do 100% Explosive damage, and do the same DPS from 0-40KM.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Vargur. But it is in essence nothing more than a Maelstrom with 11 hislots and better tracking.

And not to derail the thread, but...

Originally by: AstroPhobic
Quick reference, optimal + falloff = 38.6% of EFT DPS.

Optimal = 102% of EFT DPS.



Astro, have you seen this? (EDIT: His response is right below my post, but he didn't quote it so I'm starting there.)

If EFT really is incorrect, I'd kind of like to prove it to Gripen so he fixes it. Could you link me the evidence for saying DPS is 38% at falloff? (Besides the player added damage formula in the wiki?)


You're sort of diminishing the bonuses of the Vargur. It gest 50% falloff aswell, which is a pretty good bonus, and of course the tractor beam bonus. Other than that, yes, it's a normal Maelstrom. On the other hand that's not very far from the paladin compared to the Abaddon or the Kronos compared to the Hyperion.

As for the DPS figures, yes and no. EFT isn't incorrect, it's just that it doesn't take hit quality into account. What EFT presents you is the simple figure of ammo * multiplier / Rate of Fire. And how often it will hit in falloff. However, 1% of the hits will be wrecking, each wrecking hit gets 3x the normal damage, meaning - the average dps will be 2% higher over time. And once you add tracking and falloff into things, you will get better hits if it's easier to hit, which EFT also neglects. It's not wrong, it's just up to you to interpret.

Perpello
Astralite Technologies
Posted - 2009.09.04 16:03:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
So, I would like some idea from the mission runners regarding the Vargur.. how fast is it? I've just migrated to the joys of using an AC Maelstrom for mission running, so would it be that much better.. or better yet, is it worth the 1bil isk is comparision to the AC Maelstrom?


IMO it is worth it instead of a Maelstrom but keep in mind to make the setup any good you'd have to spend further Isk after buying one unless you've already got decent mods available to use. Once that's sorted, you won't want to go back to a Maelstrom again.

ugh

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.04 16:36:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: NoNah

You're sort of diminishing the bonuses of the Vargur. It gest 50% falloff aswell, which is a pretty good bonus, and of course the tractor beam bonus. Other than that, yes, it's a normal Maelstrom. On the other hand that's not very far from the paladin compared to the Abaddon or the Kronos compared to the Hyperion.



I oversimplified a bit...but the damage curve of a similarly fit Maelstrom with 3x Ambit rigs and a Vargur with 2x Ambits with falloff bonus are surprisingly close. And yes, the tractor bonus makes a huge difference in total mission time if you salvage. I'll try to be more fair to my favorite underdog. Wink

On a different note: The Vargur gets called the worst Marauder a lot, but now than you mention it, the Kronos never seemed all that stellar to me either. People rag on the Varg, but no one even mentions the Kronos when Marauder subjects come up.


Also, thanks for the link Liang. I always believed the 38%@falloff thing, but I prefer to see the evidence for myself. Wonder what it would take to convince Gripen.

SickSeven
Simplistic Syndicate
Posted - 2009.09.04 16:52:00 - [39]
 

So should I sell my vargur and get a Mach? Or just wait for Large AC's to be fixed? And keep on trucking with the Vargur? (since I've already took the time to train for it)

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.04 16:56:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: SickSeven
So should I sell my vargur and get a Mach?


Never, ever do this. If The Vargur is a more useful Maelstrom, the Mach is just a deceptively pretty Tempest. You'll complete missions faster in the Varg every time.

Sorry for camping the thread...

Adetia
Posted - 2009.09.04 17:06:00 - [41]
 

How does an AC Vargur compare to a cruise CNR against Angel missions? I'm looking for actual experience, not eftwarriors and falloff formulas as i can do that myself.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:51:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Adetia
How does an AC Vargur compare to a cruise CNR against Angel missions? I'm looking for actual experience, not eftwarriors and falloff formulas as i can do that myself.


Vargur against CRUISE CNR vargur will make more isk per hour. But not MUCH

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.09.05 07:22:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored
Astro, have you seen this? (EDIT: His response is right below my post, but he didn't quote it so I'm starting there.)

If EFT really is incorrect, I'd kind of like to prove it to Gripen so he fixes it. Could you link me the evidence for saying DPS is 38% at falloff? (Besides the player added damage formula in the wiki?)


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=548883&page=133#3987

-Liang

Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell
Posted - 2009.09.05 09:53:00 - [44]
 

I think that whats being said here is that if you have no inclination of trying any of the the pimp mission ships, then you will love the vargur.

But a billion isk is better spent ...

debbie harrio
Posted - 2009.09.05 10:34:00 - [45]
 



I use a Vargur for all my missions, mainly against angels or Ammar Navy and although a Golem would be slightly quicker against the Ammar Navy it isn't much and it doesn't even come close on angel missions, which are the main ones for me, so Vargur for me all the way.

Merbusent
Posted - 2009.09.05 11:10:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Merbusent on 05/09/2009 11:17:14
why is it vargur still has problems and a golem doesn't the only reason the intelligent people are sideing with it is that they cannot predict how effective it actually is? they dont have a clue what happens from sig / velocity and no clue that npc's such as guristas have obscenely low sig radius?

debbie harrio
Posted - 2009.09.07 08:50:00 - [47]
 



The Vargur DOESN'T have problems at all, just people can't fit and use them correctly.

Julie Thorne
14th Legion
Posted - 2009.09.12 13:40:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Julie Thorne on 12/09/2009 13:42:42
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
Well i guess some people won't be told.

I can't stop you using your vargurs, and I guess someone's buying them, since someone#'s still making them.

But seriously, the vargur is loooooooow on the list of high end mission ships for a good reason. It really really does lack the class of the proper mission running platforms. I don't know how to put it more succinctly.

I know it a bit elitist, but really, so many other things are better for mission running. The vargur is probably like 9th :S


I just started experimenting with a Golem on TQ against Angels mostly. I have a pretty good setup, T2 rigs, perfect skills (yeah even Marauders lv5), 5% implants (I have only one 5% damage implant though), faction torps (range is not an issue). I dualpaint everything and it's nowhere near my Vargur (even though its EFT DPS is 20% higher). And when I say nowhere I mean I need 40-50% more time to finish the same mission. I might decrease the difference a bit (I'm still trying) but I just can't imagine atm that it will be close. And btw the same is true vs Mercs.

And yes atm I feel that buying a Golem was a waste of money.

And no offense but Angels have the fastest ships with the smallest sig radius. Tracking is not an issue? Switching from 800mms to d650s made a difference and when I dropped the web and fitted a TC with a tracking script I beat all my previous best times by a noticeable margin - and I already had way better tracking than a Paldin or Kronos. It was the same when I switched to a Mach from a Fleet Tempest (there was an Angel mission in which I managed to cut 15 minutes from the mission completion time just because of the Mach's tracking bonus). Yes tracking is always an issue. I don't know where you get your info from but you are wrong.

And Orakkus:
Get a Vargur if you're in Minmatar space, get an arty Mach if you're somewhere else and want to stick with minmatar.

Ghoest
Posted - 2009.09.12 14:14:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Julie Thorne


I just started experimenting with a Golem on TQ against Angels mostly. I have a pretty good setup, T2 rigs, perfect skills (yeah even Marauders lv5), 5% implants (I have only one 5% damage implant though), faction torps (range is not an issue). I dualpaint everything and it's nowhere near my Vargur (even though its EFT DPS is 20% higher). And when I say nowhere I mean I need 40-50% more time to finish the same mission. I might decrease the difference a bit (I'm still trying) but I just can't imagine atm that it will be close. And btw the same is true vs Mercs.

And yes atm I feel that buying a Golem was a waste of money.

And no offense but Angels have the fastest ships with the smallest sig radius. Tracking is not an issue? Switching from 800mms to d650s made a difference and when I dropped the web and fitted a TC with a tracking script I beat all my previous best times by a noticeable margin - and I already had way better tracking than a Paldin or Kronos. It was the same when I switched to a Mach from a Fleet Tempest (there was an Angel mission in which I managed to cut 15 minutes from the mission completion time just because of the Mach's tracking bonus). Yes tracking is always an issue. I don't know where you get your info from but you are wrong.

And Orakkus:
Get a Vargur if you're in Minmatar space, get an arty Mach if you're somewhere else and want to stick with minmatar.


The rare useful post from someone with experience. Thanks

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.09.12 16:57:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Julie Thorne

I just started experimenting with a Golem on TQ against Angels mostly. I have a pretty good setup, T2 rigs, perfect skills (yeah even Marauders lv5), 5% implants (I have only one 5% damage implant though), faction torps (range is not an issue). I dualpaint everything and it's nowhere near my Vargur (even though its EFT DPS is 20% higher). And when I say nowhere I mean I need 40-50% more time to finish the same mission. I might decrease the difference a bit (I'm still trying) but I just can't imagine atm that it will be close. And btw the same is true vs Mercs.

And yes atm I feel that buying a Golem was a waste of money.

And no offense but Angels have the fastest ships with the smallest sig radius. Tracking is not an issue? Switching from 800mms to d650s made a difference and when I dropped the web and fitted a TC with a tracking script I beat all my previous best times by a noticeable margin - and I already had way better tracking than a Paldin or Kronos. It was the same when I switched to a Mach from a Fleet Tempest (there was an Angel mission in which I managed to cut 15 minutes from the mission completion time just because of the Mach's tracking bonus). Yes tracking is always an issue. I don't know where you get your info from but you are wrong.

And Orakkus:
Get a Vargur if you're in Minmatar space, get an arty Mach if you're somewhere else and want to stick with minmatar.


First, I want to say that I 100% believe this post. If you look back at the thread where I was ripping someone a new ******* over claiming the NH > CNR, I was noticing that even fairly marginal drops in sig (10-15) were making huge differences in DPS to a 3 rigor TP cruise Raven.

There's only one part that really worries me:
Originally by: Julie Thorne
It was the same when I switched to a Mach from a Fleet Tempest (there was an Angel mission in which I managed to cut 15 minutes from the mission completion time just because of the Mach's tracking bonus).


You cut more time off of your mission than most of my missions take... in a standard Raven. What kind of mission times are you seeing with each ship?

Oh, and Julie - if you want to look that post over and proof it, I'd appreciate it. I never like having my facts wrong ... and I'm man enough to admit that they're wrong on occasion. :)

-Liang

Echo Gemini
Minmatar
Intergalactic Sunrise
Posted - 2009.09.13 00:07:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
... and I'm man enough to admit that they're wrong on occasion. :)
-Liang


Is nothing personal, really, but ...

Why do you sign with your char name at the end of each reply ... If you're a guy that identifies himself with a lady char, I really believe that is something terribly wrong with your interpretation of reality ...

Don't want to be harsh ... but i've just notice it ... I'm ok with your posts, but something was wrong ( now i know what was bugging me for a while ) ...

Maybe your name is really Liang, and then my all little misunderstanding was just in my head, else ... i'm starting to believe that you have, more or less, a personality disorder! Of course, i doubt it, but if you be so kind to explain why do you sign with your posting char, my obsession will disappear!

... In any case, if i'm wrong I sincerely apologize ...

Keep posting and fly safe!

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.09.13 00:20:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Echo Gemini

Is nothing personal, really, but ...

Why do you sign with your char name at the end of each reply ... If you're a guy that identifies himself with a lady char, I really believe that is something terribly wrong with your interpretation of reality ...

Don't want to be harsh ... but i've just notice it ... I'm ok with your posts, but something was wrong ( now i know what was bugging me for a while ) ...

Maybe your name is really Liang, and then my all little misunderstanding was just in my head, else ... i'm starting to believe that you have, more or less, a personality disorder! Of course, i doubt it, but if you be so kind to explain why do you sign with your posting char, my obsession will disappear!

... In any case, if i'm wrong I sincerely apologize ...

Keep posting and fly safe!


LOL. Ok, so here's the skinny:
- I'm known as "Liang" on Eve. I'm not known as "$real_name" on Eve. Signing my name as "$real_name" would be confusing (and possibly inadvertently revealing!)
- I've been signing my "name" or "handle" for as long as I've been online (which I guess is since the early-mid nineties?)
- As for why "Liang" is a "lady".... Have you seeeeen what an Achura male looks like?! ShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked

-Liang

Tyler Lowe
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
Posted - 2009.09.13 02:38:00 - [53]
 

I'm likewise interested in mission times, and even more to the point, the average ship bounty per 20 minute polling period, and the maximum you ever see in each ship. The best I ever did in an Ambit Vargur, vs any NPC type was vs Angels and I hit ~12M isk in a 20 minute period. The best I have seen so far in a rigor cruise Golem was just shy of 14M isk vs Serpentis. Vs Angels, that same ship was pulling around 11M, so not far behind the Vargur, and probably due as much to travel times and warp alignment as much as any other factor.

As for mission completion times, the fastest so far has varied by ship and rig fit. Torps are really, really good in missions like Damsel in Distress, but in missions like Pirate Invasion, I usually have the closer NPC spawns dead long before the more distant spawns can even begin to close to within even Jav Torp range while Fury Cruise are eating them alive at 85km+.

Back to topic, I finally sold my ambit fitted Vargur. It just didn't do a single thing better than a cruise Golem, and most things it did much, much worse at. I tried for a very long time with that ship, stuck with it and tried to do everything possible to maximize my DPS from officer gyros to faction tracking comps. I even tried a target painter tracking comp and webber combo. I tried all sorts of expensive mods, many different fits, and finally had enough, sold the lot, and washed my hands of it. A tech II fitted Golem is more efficient at a fraction of the cost, and I'm no longer ringing the dinner bell for empire gank squads.

I'm glad someone thinks this ship is any good, and I wish them nothing but success with it. I won't touch it again unless there is a serious change to projectiles.

GGjita
Posted - 2009.09.13 10:49:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: GGjita on 13/09/2009 10:51:17
To answer the question about bounties per 20 minute period I can give a pretty decent answer to this for the CNR, Golem, and Vargar on the mission Blockade (angel). This is the only one i can give because myself and a corp mate of mine compete with each other on this mission for biggest bounty. The avg. listed are for the first bounty recieved in the mission. We did not include the second if there was one because it was normally only a few ships. All these are with most skills at L5, and the few others at L4.

CNR: (4 CN BCU's, 3 rigors, TP, CN launchers T1 ammo)

14.8 mil avg. over the course of 16 blockades


Golem: (4 CN BCU's, 2 PWNAGE, T2 range rigs, T2 launchers w/ Faction/javs)

17.7 mil avg. over the course of 23 blockades (5 of these finished the mission in less that 20 mins)


Vargur: (4 RF gyros, 2 GN tracking comps, 2 T2 extension rigs, T2 800's w/ barrage)

16.4 mil avg. over the course of 14 blockades

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.09.13 10:56:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: GGjita
Edited by: GGjita on 13/09/2009 10:51:17
To answer the question about bounties per 20 minute period I can give a pretty decent answer to this for the CNR, Golem, and Vargar on the mission Blockade (angel). This is the only one i can give because myself and a corp mate of mine compete with each other on this mission for biggest bounty. The avg. listed are for the first bounty recieved in the mission. We did not include the second if there was one because it was normally only a few ships. All these are with most skills at L5, and the few others at L4.

CNR: (4 CN BCU's, 3 rigors, TP, CN launchers T1 ammo)

14.8 mil avg. over the course of 16 blockades


Golem: (4 CN BCU's, 2 PWNAGE, T2 range rigs, T2 launchers w/ Faction/javs)

17.7 mil avg. over the course of 23 blockades (5 of these finished the mission in less that 20 mins)


Vargur: (4 RF gyros, 2 GN tracking comps, 2 T2 extension rigs, T2 800's w/ barrage)

16.4 mil avg. over the course of 14 blockades



Assuming those numbers are correct and other variables kept to a minimum, there's the definitive answer about how well a Vargur can do missions.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.09.14 15:12:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: GGjita
Edited by: GGjita on 13/09/2009 10:51:17
To answer the question about bounties per 20 minute period I can give a pretty decent answer to this for the CNR, Golem, and Vargar on the mission Blockade (angel). This is the only one i can give because myself and a corp mate of mine compete with each other on this mission for biggest bounty. The avg. listed are for the first bounty recieved in the mission. We did not include the second if there was one because it was normally only a few ships. All these are with most skills at L5, and the few others at L4.

CNR: (4 CN BCU's, 3 rigors, TP, CN launchers T1 ammo)

14.8 mil avg. over the course of 16 blockades


Golem: (4 CN BCU's, 2 PWNAGE, T2 range rigs, T2 launchers w/ Faction/javs)

17.7 mil avg. over the course of 23 blockades (5 of these finished the mission in less that 20 mins)


Vargur: (4 RF gyros, 2 GN tracking comps, 2 T2 extension rigs, T2 800's w/ barrage)

16.4 mil avg. over the course of 14 blockades



Assuming those numbers are correct and other variables kept to a minimum, there's the definitive answer about how well a Vargur can do missions.


Not COMPLETE. Because still there is the question. THose times include looting and salvaging at least all battleship wrecks?

Because THERE is where vargur get an advantage, since most vargur fits are forced to use an AB anyway and most rats die INSIDE TRACTOR RANGE. The vargur usually finishes the mission with everything looted and all BS wrecks salvaged

That usually is enough to make it go SLIGHTY ahead of golem against angels, a bit worse against serpentis (And much worse against others).

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.14 17:59:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 14/09/2009 17:59:27
Originally by: Marko Riva

Assuming those numbers are correct and other variables kept to a minimum, there's the definitive answer about how well a Vargur can do missions.


It's a definitive answer to how well it can do Angel missions...still second best to the Golem, unfortunately. But not by that much. Wink

The problem comes in when you compare it on missions like The Assault. Once you're shooting something other than Angels, the Varg tends to pull in last place. A respectable time in last place, but still last.

GGjita
Posted - 2009.09.14 18:49:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: GGjita
Edited by: GGjita on 13/09/2009 10:51:17
To answer the question about bounties per 20 minute period I can give a pretty decent answer to this for the CNR, Golem, and Vargar on the mission Blockade (angel). This is the only one i can give because myself and a corp mate of mine compete with each other on this mission for biggest bounty. The avg. listed are for the first bounty recieved in the mission. We did not include the second if there was one because it was normally only a few ships. All these are with most skills at L5, and the few others at L4.

CNR: (4 CN BCU's, 3 rigors, TP, CN launchers T1 ammo)

14.8 mil avg. over the course of 16 blockades


Golem: (4 CN BCU's, 2 PWNAGE, T2 range rigs, T2 launchers w/ Faction/javs)

17.7 mil avg. over the course of 23 blockades (5 of these finished the mission in less that 20 mins)


Vargur: (4 RF gyros, 2 GN tracking comps, 2 T2 extension rigs, T2 800's w/ barrage)

16.4 mil avg. over the course of 14 blockades



Assuming those numbers are correct and other variables kept to a minimum, there's the definitive answer about how well a Vargur can do missions.


Not COMPLETE. Because still there is the question. THose times include looting and salvaging at least all battleship wrecks?

Because THERE is where vargur get an advantage, since most vargur fits are forced to use an AB anyway and most rats die INSIDE TRACTOR RANGE. The vargur usually finishes the mission with everything looted and all BS wrecks salvaged

That usually is enough to make it go SLIGHTY ahead of golem against angels, a bit worse against serpentis (And much worse against others).


Just to clarify both ships (golem and vargur) were salvage/looting all BS wrecks. Neither ship moved from it warp-in point because it is blockade and all you have to do is pop the trigger early to get the next wave moving toward you while you mop up the last.

Also the Vargur had perfect AC skills (including all support) while i had near perfect Torp skills (only 2 of the support at L4).

Both ships had a AB btw, so don't see how that gives teh Vargur an advantage.

Julie Thorne
14th Legion
Posted - 2009.10.06 19:36:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

You cut more time off of your mission than most of my missions take... in a standard Raven. What kind of mission times are you seeing with each ship?



It was a long time ago when I used a Mach or Fleet Tempest to run missions (though the Mach is getting more interesting by the day). My skills, implants and setups were not as good as they're now. Btw the mission I was referring to was Vengeance vs Angels. Now it takes less than 15 minutes in a Vargur, 20+ in a torp Raven (even though I got every implant now). It was only an example. I have a CNR as well with a simple faction setup (and rigor rigs of course). It can't beat my Vargur. Ever. (Though I don't have the implants for the CNR or cruise missile lv5 - and probably never will - so it's not a fair comparison.) Mind you I don't leave the Republic and I don't accept crappy missions.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.06 19:45:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Julie Thorne

It was a long time ago when I used a Mach or Fleet Tempest to run missions (though the Mach is getting more interesting by the day). My skills, implants and setups were not as good as they're now. Btw the mission I was referring to was Vengeance vs Angels. Now it takes less than 15 minutes in a Vargur, 20+ in a torp Raven (even though I got every implant now). It was only an example. I have a CNR as well with a simple faction setup (and rigor rigs of course). It can't beat my Vargur. Ever. (Though I don't have the implants for the CNR or cruise missile lv5 - and probably never will - so it's not a fair comparison.) Mind you I don't leave the Republic and I don't accept crappy missions.


This is all good to hear makes me glad I never abandoned my Marauder Underdog. Cool

I'm having a little trouble believing all of it (the Vargur outperformed the CNR all the time?), but I'm glad to hear from someone with first-hand experience that they're pretty comparable inside Minmatar space.

I'm determined never to train Caldari BS, (because I'm an obstinate masochist) but I may have to just to make an objective comparison some day.


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