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Rellik B00n
Posted - 2009.08.31 01:28:00 - [181]
 

/watches people desperately try to salvage their tattered reputations.

Tesal
Posted - 2009.08.31 02:26:00 - [182]
 

This thread is unhelpful. I would troll it, but I don't think its possible to troll any worse than is already happening.

Bottom line: those who live in glass houses should not throw stones, unless they are trolls who live in glass houses.

Can we end this thread now?

Solisk
Gallente
HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics
Posted - 2009.08.31 02:28:00 - [183]
 

Why end it? I'm enjoying the investigating that Block is doing.

PostmasterGeneral
Minmatar
yo i'm posting
Posted - 2009.08.31 05:26:00 - [184]
 

that is the worst indictment i have ever seen

soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2009.08.31 05:34:00 - [185]
 

Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 31/08/2009 05:34:33
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Is this a joke?



This is EVE, we don't do trials, we shoot each other in the face when we have disagreements / hurt ego's.

Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
Posted - 2009.08.31 06:27:00 - [186]
 

I'm honestly not sure if this thread is serious or one of the most epic and successful trolls I've ever seen. I want to believe that Block still has some stuffing between his ears, but the more he posts the less likely that appears.

I believe that we should have a cage match between Ray and Block to settle things.

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2009.08.31 12:31:00 - [187]
 

Exhibit 10

[quote = Betty Rhage] on 31/08/2009 01:32:14

So here is the deal. I'm going to spill some beans here to show I mean it, and then either you can give me back my isk - yes this is an alt but I expect you to know who this is and if not just eve mail me - or I will simply sell the rest on the open market to cover my losses. I never thought I would be hedging like this, but oh well.

How did I get this data? I can't you all without breaking the Eve Online TOS, so basically I cant tell any of you. I will not be doing so. Sorry, but I am not going to put my accounts at risk. I can say I was trusted with some data, spied to get others, but I was an outsider, and that outside game communications often got a lot more interesting than eve-internal communications, because based on recent devblog posts I suspect they suspected they where being monitored by Concord. Its all hindsight now, and I thought none of it was real..

First thing: Not all Ricdic's accounts are banned. He is still affiliated with Ebank using accounts paid with stolen isk and is using various other internet connections so he can not be easily tracked by CPP/Concord when he logs on. You don't just walk away from this game, it consumes you, and once you put so much time into something you cant just let it go.. so he did not.

Second: The data I have says that he was not the only person involved in RMT in EveBank. The story that was made public was only half true, and based on the little data I just now confirmed again to be sure EveBank was regularly used to launder and store money from RMT from both the Russian and Asian operations, mostly the ones that work out of the drone regions and deep Russian space, and EveBank took a big hit in the recent bans where money and items being sold in secondary trade operations in Jita from EveBank assets was banned along with accounts used in RMT. Notice the sudden lack of accounts in Jita? That is a big reason for the sudden evebank shortfall, not just Ricdic's so called 'theft', because a lot of evebank capital assets in storage/transition/etc where lost when these accounts where banned.

Now let me be the first to say I dont have hard proof of a lot of this or the other data I have - I cant record phone conversations without breaking the law so this could all be made up for all many of you know and I am deeply sorry about this fact- But I don't have anything to go to CCP with to turn in people with solid evidence, and EveBank knows this, hence the comments they have made. And since in the past my attempts to petition them/macro miners/etc I had information on as working for these people all seemed to be ignored, and since a few of the people involved have replied to this thread, I doubt CCP cares about their involvement or any of the petitions I have created over the last few months because the ticket system seems to love to expire petitions and close them (Why does ccp even allow that Shouldn't all requests be manualy closed by a rep to be sure important petitions are not lost? Yes.. but thats not how it seems to work. If they ignore you for long enough the petition closes :( )

But I bet you all do.




HawkBlade
Posted - 2009.08.31 12:53:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Exhibit 10
If this is the kind of evidence you are collecting... this is a joke thread.

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2009.08.31 13:04:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: HawkBlade
Originally by: Block Ukx
Exhibit 10
If this is the kind of evidence you are collecting... this is a joke thread.



Think that was obvious from the moment he pressed 'post' Rolling Eyes



PostmasterGeneral
Minmatar
yo i'm posting
Posted - 2009.08.31 17:44:00 - [190]
 

hey guise i hear hearsay is just primo evidence amirite

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.31 19:47:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
You were hire to:

“Shar Tegral- Shar Tegral was someone we wanted from the start. Shar is well known in the business world, and has no IPO related commitments at this point in time. He has some coding skills that may assist the corporation at some point, but his strengths will be in ensuring full disclosure of corporate activities are in place, and ensuring the 'sheep' aspect of a board does not occur (everyone follow the leader).”

I believe you knew what was going on but decided to walk away and keep the public in the dark.


In the other thread I mentioned that the directors who should have ensured that the controls were in place should be held liable. HawkBlade showed me his resignation post (which I had not read before) I will post below why He did state publicly EBANK was in trouble.

I apologize for publically for assuming HawkBlade/Shar was guilty of wrongdoing. However some one is/was responsible for ensuring controls and procedures were in place so people’s isk would not be stolen/removed. These are the people who need to be help accountable.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.31 19:48:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 31/08/2009 20:09:00

EDIT: (let me fix the above sentence) Rolling Eyes

I apologize publically for assuming HawkBlade/Shar was guilty of wrongdoing.

For ease of use below shows an email that HawkBlade/Shar sent to the EBANK directors before he left… and he published it in his thread for all to read.

=================================

Subject: Last Resort: Private Meeting
Date: 14 Jul 2008 00:55 (EST)
Recipients: SencneS, Anastasia, Banni Vinda, Hexxx, PangGrohl, Selene D'Celeste, Mr Horizontal, LaVista Vista (BCC), Athre (BCC)

I'm contacting everyone on the board simply because I do not think that any productive conversation can take place in front of Ricdic.

I am concerned. I am worried and, in truth, I'm considering leaving. Not because of the bickering, though the bickering is I think a symptom, but because I'm losing confidence in eBank itself.

As time goes by Ric is reporting less and less of who, what, where, when and/or how. What has me really spooked is not this Bob Guy at all, that's more the straw on the camel's back tbh. It was this 175b self approved loan that he failed to tell anyone about.

Now if we all remember we adamantly decided that Ric could not just grant himself a loan without oversight. Long ago with the EO forum ****ing post that he did where he said he could. Well, he did. And didn't bat an eye about it. If not for him mentioning it in passing over MSN to me I don't know if the board would have any clue to where 175 billion went.

Now, I don't want to stab the man but this latest volley of his, "keep in your place", has me at my last straw. The board of directors was a key integral part of the formation of eBank. Ricdic worked for us, not the other way around. I think that has been totally forgotten in his impetuousness and, sadly, we need to move forward either with admitting we are no longer in charge and responsible or we take the necessary action in front of us.

I'm not going to politic you, I don't want the ****ing job either. But I am going to tell you what is plainly in front of us... Caesar must go. I fear it is simply a case of him or us and the sooner that decision is made. either direction, the better for us all.

Either way this turns out I'm going to do what I have to do to maintain my integrity. If matters are left at status quo, I'm gone. If matters are for Ricdic, again I'm gone. I will not stick around and let an impetuous child destroy me and my good name like he almost let Cally near destroy his own.

==============================


You will see the list of people above who HawkBlade/Shar sent this to. Some or all of them were responsible for making sure controls were in place before EBANK was formed to insure people’s isk was safe.

Those guilty people are the ones we should no longer trust or believe if they start an IPO or a BANK venture here in eve. The problem is we don’t have any investigators in Eve like we would in RL to prove or find out who is guilty.

So really… in Eve you are guilty till proven innocent

The ones listed above need to prove to the People Of Eve that they were not involved or hired to insure control of the isk could not be stolen. (As far as I’m concerned HawkBlade/Shar already did as he was ‘hired’ to ‘ensure full disclosure of corporate activities are in place’. He has done that.)

And if the above can’t prove their innocence then people should work with and give isk to them at their peril.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.08.31 20:05:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: LaVista Vista on 31/08/2009 20:05:34
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise

You will see the list of people above who HawkBlade/Shar sent this to. Some or all of them were responsible for making sure controls were in place before EBANK was formed to insure people’s isk was safe.


Only some of those were responsible for the controls. I sure wasn't, as I was still only there to maintain and fix things on the website when they were broken, and collect data for people to use.

EDIT: The (BCC) tag by Athre and my own name should be a clue.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.31 20:10:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
I sure wasn't...
I sorta thought that.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.08.31 20:12:00 - [195]
 

Now, don't take this as offense to your post, but I was thinking:

In real life, due to the nature of how one can only be in 1 spot at any given time, proving innocence is not impossible.

However how are you ever going to prove innocence in EVE? It's that kind of impossible?

Solisk
Gallente
HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics
Posted - 2009.08.31 21:09:00 - [196]
 

Block, any idea when you'll be able to release a compiled list of your findings?

I'm also curious as to how much cooperation you're receiving from Ebank staff, former and current.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2009.08.31 21:38:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: HawkBlade
While I am surprised that my name should reappear within the drama that is eBank in truth there is only one thing I find disconcerting. You failed to name one prime contributor to the collapse of eBank: Selene D'Celeste


Please could you elaborate on this? It's news to me.

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2009.08.31 23:08:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: HawkBlade
While I am surprised that my name should reappear within the drama that is eBank in truth there is only one thing I find disconcerting. You failed to name one prime contributor to the collapse of eBank: Selene D'Celeste


Please could you elaborate on this? It's news to me.


They're referencing the audit I was supposed to perform but never did due to a lack of information, shortly before my second resignation from EBANK. Both Shar and Athre have brought my name up recently, and have held something against me ever since that time, despite still having cordial relations in chat and such (i.e. no harsh words are ever said elsewhere, but they both bring me up when the blame game happens on the forums).

This started when I resigned (post KIA-loan issue, pre-Ricdic). The resignation came about because the only data available to me during my attempted audit in May was the corporation contract history for collateral, the list of loans and how much was owed on each, and a few sums from venture operations such as the one AC was running. At the time I wasn't very active due to a move/job combo, but I had told others I would try to do an audit since none had been done in ages. Between my frustration at the information barrier (everything was assumed to be in TXD, of which records were more or less nonexistent), the lack of a public announcement concerning the KIA loan default for well over a month, and the lack of any visible leadership in EBANK, I wrote up a proposal for closing/halting accounts, liquidating some ventures and/or customers, and possibly temporarily freezing the bank while a complete audit and cash-flow report was done. Part of my plan included assuming CEO so that there was leadership, but after running the plan by Athre, we got into an argument and she left the conversation. I then decided that EBANK was something my energy was wasted on, and that while I still had friends there, I shouldn't be doing business with them.

Once the Ricdic thing happened a few weeks later, I posted my resignation on these forums so that the record was clear, not wanting to be caught up in that mess. I had decided not to post initially so as to avoid drama, being assured that the concerns I raised weren't falling on deaf ears. This was when Athre, and moreso Shar, ripped into me (you can go back and look at the Ricdic/EBANK thread for posts), as they were offended at my decisions. They apparently feel I should have a heavy dose of blame, but for what specifically is unclear. To me it seems they would feel better if I somehow suffered, and that is the only point to this even coming up. Sigh.

A couple of weeks after the Ricdic incident, I ended up chatting with some of the guys I work with at EOH, and with Grendell, and we ended up tossing around ideas on how a bank-like business could work without any of the known flaws in the known banks. Before long, work began on ECR.

I do regret having become indifferent to Ricdic and his antics, having long ago grown tired of both him and EBANK's inability to improve its code, back when Shar first quit. Both of us tore into Ric constantly in the early days, the main difference being that I didn't bring it onto EVE-O and instead of quitting I went inactive and resigned by default after a period of some months. Shar's always had the stomach for these things, but that kind of never-ending battle wasn't for me. Sorry if you expected me to do the same, Shar.

As to my second stint with EBANK, I regret having ever said I would do an audit when I didn't really have the time, and I've said as much to the few members of EBANK I still chat with on occasion. I probably wanted to make it up to myself for having given up before, but I couldn't have chosen a worse time in RL to have tried. Thus the above.

That should clear things up Kazuo. I am sure if Shar isn't happy with my summary he will shortly correct me in his usual manner.

Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
Posted - 2009.08.31 23:38:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Is this a joke?


how could it not be?

Oh wait Internet spaceships is serious business, must be serious Rolling EyesLaughing

cosmoray
Perkone
Posted - 2009.08.31 23:41:00 - [200]
 

Well a hell of a lot of board members don't seem to be responsible for ANYTHING at EBANK.

The way I see it:

The BOD are responsible for providing oversight so that the bank's first priority is the safeguarding of customers ISK.

Shar realised this was a massive issue last year, brought it to the public's attention and resigned or was forced out. In my book Shar was blameless.

The rest of the BOD who were in EBANK and any who were present at the time of the Ricdic theft are accountable for not doing their jobs.

Those BOD members who quickly resigned after Ricdic was banned and before everything became public, shame on you for running away.

Sorry Selene and LVV but you have to share some responsibilty in this. You both held on a long time, can't just throw it off now. When Shar resigned you either agreed with what Ricdic was doing and by staying on you allowed the actions of the CEO (maybe others) to go unchecked or you were incompetant at your jobs.

At least Hexx is taking on responsibility for this.

Yelan Zhou
Amarr
Ba.theen Aljannatal Asaakitah
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2009.09.01 00:08:00 - [201]
 

Edited by: Yelan Zhou on 01/09/2009 00:15:39
I dunno what all those trolls here about but this thread revealed way more than any other E-bank thread did so far.

The reactions of the E-bank members and former members are very interesting also.
I mean everyone blames Ricdic for everything, but noone else has dirt/incompetence on his/her hands ? Very doubtful I think.

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2009.09.01 00:08:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: cosmoray

Sorry Selene and LVV but you have to share some responsibilty in this. You both held on a long time, can't just throw it off now. When Shar resigned you either agreed with what Ricdic was doing and by staying on you allowed the actions of the CEO (maybe others) to go unchecked or you were incompetant at your jobs.


You're more than welcome to your opinion, and I'd gladly talk more with you or anyone else in-game if you wish. This doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing what I enjoy in EVE, nor give up any of my businesses. If you have lost faith in me because of this, so be it. I've already explained myself and my regrets and there's nothing more to say. I'm not going to argue. Everyone will make the opinions they are going to make. I simply decided to explain what happened so that they may decide for themselves with the relevant information before them, and before a slanted version of events was told.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.09.01 04:21:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: cosmoray

Sorry Selene and LVV but you have to share some responsibilty in this. You both held on a long time, can't just throw it off now. When Shar resigned you either agreed with what Ricdic was doing and by staying on you allowed the actions of the CEO (maybe others) to go unchecked or you were incompetant at your jobs.

Uhhh?

Your post seems to assume that I was actually a director before Ricdic ran off.

The sole reason I was temporarely made a director, was that Ricdic ran off with the ISK. That's until a couple of weeks ago, when I had OZ step in place of me, because of time issues.

glas mir
Reaction Scientific
Posted - 2009.09.01 05:29:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: glas mir on 01/09/2009 05:29:20
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: cosmoray

Sorry Selene and LVV but you have to share some responsibilty in this.

Uhhh?

Your post seems to assume that I was actually a director before Ricdic ran off.

The sole reason I was temporarely made a director, was that Ricdic ran off with the ISK. That's until a couple of weeks ago, when I had OZ step in place of me, because of time issues.


When I look at the ebank scandal, yes you are tarnished. I do not know exactly who knew what, I was never interested in the bank, but you are associated with it. You cannot wish that away. You choose to associate with it and advocate for it, now face the consequences.

You are trying to pretend on these forums that your hands are clean, but they are not.

I am interested in what this thread ultimately produces but those that I no longer trust are:

Ricdic
Hexx
SencneS
Athre

they are the faces of ebank I am familiar with.

glas mir
Reaction Scientific
Posted - 2009.09.01 05:32:00 - [205]
 

I should add that depending how the current situation plays out, I may add Ray to that list.

Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
Posted - 2009.09.01 05:51:00 - [206]
 

Edited by: Frenden Dax on 01/09/2009 05:51:27
Originally by: glas mir
I should add that depending how the current situation plays out, I may add Ray to that list.


What? If anything Ray has skyrocketed to near the top of my 'people I trust' list, along with Shar and Cosmoray. All three can be abrasive and crude at times, but they are professional and honest when it matters, and to hell with reputations or appeasing everyone. Ray should accrue no blame from this at all, since he parachuted in after the damage was already there. All he's done since then is work to pick up the pieces (a thankless and profitless task) and endure flaming and abuse from almost everyone.

I'd say the person in whom I seem to have placed too much trust is Hexxx, rather than Ray. I assumed that with Hexxx near the top of the EBANK power-structure, giving reports on the financial status of EBANK, he would take the time to ensure the accuracy of the information he was passing off as fact. Whether through laziness or mistaken trust in Ricdic, this validation did not occur. While of course no one is stupid enough to accuse Hexxx of stealing isk or deliberately falsifying information, I would be loathe to trust Hexxx's judgment on the financial status of any further ventures. As a theory-crafter he is without peer, but when it comes to dealing with his fellow man... Confused

Leowen
Industrial Giants
Posted - 2009.09.01 07:42:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Frenden Dax


What? If anything Ray has skyrocketed to near the top of my 'people I trust' list, along with Shar and Cosmoray. All three can be abrasive and crude at times, but they are professional and honest when it matters, and to hell with reputations or appeasing everyone. Ray should accrue no blame from this at all, since he parachuted in after the damage was already there. All he's done since then is work to pick up the pieces (a thankless and profitless task) and endure flaming and abuse from almost everyone.




IF the damage was actually already there.

Personally, I struggle to believe anything I read on this without a huge handful of salt. There is something very wrong about all of this, something stinks. I am in no position to blame anyone individually, but I think any throwing of wreathes at the feet of any EBANK staff past or present is a bit of a silly thing to do in the circiumstances.

Sorry Ray and others who may or may not be blameless, nothing personal, but the naivety that continues to be shown in this forum is shocking.

Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
Posted - 2009.09.01 07:44:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Frenden Dax
Edited by: Frenden Dax on 01/09/2009 05:51:27
Originally by: glas mir
I should add that depending how the current situation plays out, I may add Ray to that list.


What? If anything Ray has skyrocketed to near the top of my 'people I trust' list, along with Shar and Cosmoray. All three can be abrasive and crude at times, but they are professional and honest when it matters, and to hell with reputations or appeasing everyone. Ray should accrue no blame from this at all, since he parachuted in after the damage was already there. All he's done since then is work to pick up the pieces (a thankless and profitless task) and endure flaming and abuse from almost everyone.

I'd say the person in whom I seem to have placed too much trust is Hexxx, rather than Ray. I assumed that with Hexxx near the top of the EBANK power-structure, giving reports on the financial status of EBANK, he would take the time to ensure the accuracy of the information he was passing off as fact. Whether through laziness or mistaken trust in Ricdic, this validation did not occur. While of course no one is stupid enough to accuse Hexxx of stealing isk or deliberately falsifying information, I would be loathe to trust Hexxx's judgment on the financial status of any further ventures. As a theory-crafter he is without peer, but when it comes to dealing with his fellow man... Confused


Why on earth are you apportioning all the blame to Hexxx and none to Shar.?

Shar is probably the most culpable in all of this since he was a complete failure in everything he was supposed to do.

How much isk flowed into Ebank on the basis that Shar was 'overseeing' it?

How much isk did customers fail to withdraw because Shar never once warned that Ebank might be insolvent?

Shars warnings were little more than 'I'm fed up with all these rows I'm out'

Shar has now been 'associated' with 2 banks both of which were apocalyptic failures

Nothing to do with him though.

Only marginally less culpable is Lavista Vista

Obviously the concept of collective responsibility is something totally alien to him. But hey he's only a kid so that's alright then.

And if anybody ever invests a single solitary isk in Selenes new bank they need their head examining.

Like I said in another thread these people need to fold up their tents and slink off into the night.

Remember this figure :-

1,200,000,000,000 isk lost

I believe Ebank currently has 46b 'on hand'

And some people think Ray can use this 46b to make them all their money back in 12-18 months.


Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.09.01 08:14:00 - [209]
 

I just read the OP, and I would like to say:

Thanks! A very dull and boring workday has been lightened up by a good bout of heartfelt laughter Laughing

Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
Posted - 2009.09.01 09:16:00 - [210]
 

Shar.........your bleating ad nauseum that "it wasn't my fault" is getting old

In fact it's nauseating

Bout time you dumped your arrogance and ate a huge heap of humble pie

Btw I didn't read your reply to my last post Smile


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