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Korell Nova
Posted - 2009.08.27 17:40:00 - [31]
 

easy way to start the changes make all faction ships like the nightmare and give them 4 weapon slots and a maurader damage bonus.

Ulasim
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
Posted - 2009.08.27 17:48:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.


Right because having battleship I will give you an excellent idea of how a ship preforms.

fab24
Gallente
Tax Fraud Corporation
Posted - 2009.08.27 18:32:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Korell Nova
easy way to start the changes make all faction ships like the nightmare and give them 4 weapon slots and a maurader damage bonus.


This is not a really good idea... many ships have defined roles and it will make some ships like nightmare/succubus/phantasm to become useless simply because they have no other 'special' bonus other than the 100% dmg thing, they will be replaced by bhaalgorn for exemple, 4 turrets (and if they make slot change) 3 neuts would kill everything... It will just go on the overpoweredcrapomfgthisshipkilleverything...

CCP WeirdFish

Posted - 2009.08.27 20:24:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Ulasim
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.


Right because having battleship I will give you an excellent idea of how a ship preforms.


Im sorry if you will be unable to utilize your desired ship, but im am just to busy to go and put all your skills up.

Ulasim
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
Posted - 2009.08.27 22:09:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
Originally by: Ulasim
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.


Right because having battleship I will give you an excellent idea of how a ship preforms.


Im sorry if you will be unable to utilize your desired ship, but im am just to busy to go and put all your skills up.


I don't care about that, the only faction BS I couldn't use T2 fitted would be a fleet pest or macherial, I'm just worried that your going to be trying to balance ships based off the feed back you get from pilot who should not be flying them.

Sera Ryskin
Posted - 2009.08.27 22:43:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 27/08/2009 22:43:36
What exactly is the point of doing this? Faction ships are almost never used in fleet fights, they're best for 1v1s and small gang fights, where their advantages over cheaper ships actually make a difference. In a fleet fight, where all that matters is is bringing more ships for the battle of attrition, they're just a waste of ISK.

And a POS fight? Really? Do you honestly think you are going to get useful balance feedback by testing faction ships in a scenario in which they are NEVER used in the real game? This makes about as much sense as trying to re-balance mining barges by testing their performance in level 5 missions.



Now, if your real goal here is to conduct another lag test with faction ships as the bait to get people to show up, then sure, it's a great idea, but if it's balance that you want, it's a terrible plan.

Ronen Osden
Caldari
Ronen's NEW And Improved Mining Services
Posted - 2009.08.28 09:44:00 - [37]
 

I just want to know If we get to keep the ship when you give it to us...or if it goes poof when the testing is done...?

MJ Maverick
IronPig
Sev3rance
Posted - 2009.08.28 11:39:00 - [38]
 

For example if your name is Zebady ZZacracy and you somehow survive.

fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
Posted - 2009.08.28 12:13:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: fuxinos on 28/08/2009 12:18:27
Will this test provide you with anything more accurate then asking in a balancing thread?

I mean, you opened a balancing thread months ago and you still didnt change/balance anything that has been brought up...

I realy start wondering when CCP starts taking balancing serious.

: And the fact that you try to balance faction ships (not many have the money for them anyway for pvp) before fixing all the broken T1 and T2 ships make me think even worse about your nearly non existent balancing efforts.

Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2009.08.28 14:23:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Ulasim
I'm just worried that your going to be trying to balance ships based off the feed back you get from pilot who should not be flying them.

This. I don't mind people trying ships they would not field on Tranq, due to cost or risk, but that they will provide feedback on ships they have not properly trained for (and/or can fit), it a hair raising horror.

It would be like me trying to be an expert on for example the Vargur - I don't have minmatar BS 5 to fly it, so anyone who knows that would not trust anything I say about it (if it can not be read directly from it's attributes).

The analogy would be the horror that i saw back when i still played WOW.
Premade characters on the PTR just meant boatloads of incompetent feedback, due to people trying out classes at max level that they had no real experience playing with.
And that drowned out those who did in fact test the classes of their mains and thus had the ballast to know what they were talking about.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2009.08.28 14:54:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 28/08/2009 14:57:04
I've been playing with my Ashimmu.

Ship needs to have the following, changes in yellow, boosts in green, nerfs in red, everything else the same is in white:

Special Ability: 100% bonus to range of modules requiring Energy Emission Systems

Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer drain amount per level
Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier strength per level.

CPU base: 380 +80
Grid base: 950 +100
Calibration: 350

Lows: 6
Med: 4 +1
High: 7

Turret slots: 5 +1
Missile slots: 0 -1

Attributes:

Leave SH/AR/ST same

Dronebay: 20m3 +20
Bandwidth: 20m3 +20

Capacitor: 1800 base +75
Recharge Time: 490 sec - 47.5 sec

LADAR Sensor Strength: 16 +3 (the ship has fusion engines so give it minmatar sensors)

Max Velocity: 164 m/s



This would balance the ship out perfectly in my opinion. It utilizes all of the bonuses, and the web range/power would be the toss up. I really like the web RANGE but let's face it -- this ship is the slowest cruiser in the game so it needs to compensate by stopping its target like molasses on a cold day.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.08.28 17:43:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Ulasim
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
Originally by: Ulasim
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
There will be no skill "bumping" i'm afraid it would take me far to much time. Get training soon Battleship level 1 will not take very long.


Right because having battleship I will give you an excellent idea of how a ship preforms.


Im sorry if you will be unable to utilize your desired ship, but im am just to busy to go and put all your skills up.


I don't care about that, the only faction BS I couldn't use T2 fitted would be a fleet pest or macherial, I'm just worried that your going to be trying to balance ships based off the feed back you get from pilot who should not be flying them.


Not to worry. I'll be there and I have max skills for all of the faction BS involved. Cool

Mike C
Caldari
MicroFunks
Posted - 2009.08.29 01:53:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Mike C on 29/08/2009 12:35:25
Already got a leviathan, so if I can get capital ships 5 bumped up (got 3 weeks left on it on sisi) I'll be happy to donate my time in it. :D

EDIT 1/1: That is until liz tells me to get off.

Jarome Keel
Posted - 2009.08.29 11:13:00 - [44]
 

This clearly isnt a faction ship test but more of a server stress test.

Evidence; a FLEET fight, how often does some one who pvps in a faction ship do it in a fleet with only other faction ships? They are much more commonly used for solo or very small gang fights, also watching for FPS, i didnt realise that FPS had such a large impact on how good my faction ship was and finally a POS shoot which gives CCP alot of information as it takes a long time to drop a pos. I dont really have a problem with stress tests but would rather you actually say it was a stress test rather then a faction ship balancing event. It wouldnt surprise me if CCP allready knows what they are going to do about faction ships and thought they might as well get a server stress test out of it as a bonus!

Lahila Astravmar
Posted - 2009.08.29 11:39:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Lahila Astravmar on 29/08/2009 11:39:36
uhm... how much can help a 6months old player with few PvP experience? (any about fleet fight)

CCP WeirdFish

Posted - 2009.08.29 13:49:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Jarome Keel
This clearly isnt a faction ship test but more of a server stress test.

Evidence; a FLEET fight, how often does some one who pvps in a faction ship do it in a fleet with only other faction ships? They are much more commonly used for solo or very small gang fights, also watching for FPS, i didnt realise that FPS had such a large impact on how good my faction ship was and finally a POS shoot which gives CCP alot of information as it takes a long time to drop a pos. I dont really have a problem with stress tests but would rather you actually say it was a stress test rather then a faction ship balancing event. It wouldnt surprise me if CCP allready knows what they are going to do about faction ships and thought they might as well get a server stress test out of it as a bonus!


The fleet and pos test are purely to get some numbers and data the idea is to give you the ships and then let you play with them and that's where we get our balance data. Yes there will be stress tests runing but the aim of the whole event is to get a feeling of how you all see the ships as comparing with there T1 and T2 counterparts as well as each other.

chaosjj
Posted - 2009.08.29 14:02:00 - [47]
 

How will the ships be distributed? will we need to request a ship in a channel , or does anyone recieve one of all faction ships?

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.29 15:38:00 - [48]
 

CCP, i am disappointed and happy.

Disappointed because you are running ballancing as a democratic process here, you let the people tell you what they want and you try to do their bidding ( i know you have the last word). So why is that bad? Because its hypocracy. If some player requests boosts to a ship, others tell him to shut up and use the ship as intended. Now these same poeple make suggestions as to how to boost their ships.

I am happy because faction ships actually need a boost, and you finally do it. But ccp, you should have some ideas of your own first. Like with Sansha, you should present your ideas here and then let people comment these ideas. Otherwise you may get more suggestions then you could manage to review.

So CCP, what are your ideas, what should each faction feature, how far do you want to go, where should faction ships stand? T1,5? T2? Whats with the LP? Any concepts flying around? Its your job to do these concepts, ya know?

Thank you in advance.




CCP WeirdFish

Posted - 2009.08.29 15:50:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Perry
CCP, i am disappointed and happy.

Disappointed because you are running ballancing as a democratic process here, you let the people tell you what they want and you try to do their bidding ( i know you have the last word). So why is that bad? Because its hypocracy. If some player requests boosts to a ship, others tell him to shut up and use the ship as intended. Now these same poeple make suggestions as to how to boost their ships.

I am happy because faction ships actually need a boost, and you finally do it. But ccp, you should have some ideas of your own first. Like with Sansha, you should present your ideas here and then let people comment these ideas. Otherwise you may get more suggestions then you could manage to review.

So CCP, what are your ideas, what should each faction feature, how far do you want to go, where should faction ships stand? T1,5? T2? Whats with the LP? Any concepts flying around? Its your job to do these concepts, ya know?

Thank you in advance.






As i have already explained this is not a design decision in progress, all we want to do is give you the opportunity to give us some feedback so we get a good idea of what people think of the ships and there balance, any changes or designs that might be made in this area in future will have some idea of how you think it should be. That does not mean that if you all cry over one ship being uber and another being useless that they will be altered in the next patch. Just tell us what you think so we are aware of your opinions.

Now stop finding things to complain about and come have some fun Very Happy

ian666
Minmatar
Virtual Democracy
C0VEN
Posted - 2009.08.29 16:34:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: ian666 on 29/08/2009 16:39:56

Answers for all questions exists here on this forum, from years, its really so hard to use search function?

For example, 2yrs old topic (one of many) about rattlesnake (basicaly all guristas ships are messed up because of their two different weapon type bonuses while all other ships have 3 bonuses to single type of weapon)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=572580&page=1

I know, no brain = no pain, but seriously...

Sera Ryskin
Posted - 2009.08.29 19:13:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: CCP WeirdFish
The fleet and pos test are purely to get some numbers and data the idea is to give you the ships and then let you play with them and that's where we get our balance data. Yes there will be stress tests runing but the aim of the whole event is to get a feeling of how you all see the ships as comparing with there T1 and T2 counterparts as well as each other.




What balance "data" are you hoping to get? That most people feel that the Machariel is a poor ship for killing POSes? No ****, nobody uses it in that role or expects it to be good in that role. The "data" you are going to get is about as relevant to balance decisions as if you decided to test mining barge balance in a POS fight.



There are two things you should do:


1) Read the MANY balance threads that have already been posted. There have been many good ideas, and vast amounts of constructive feedback, and all you have to do is go read it.


2) Test faction ships in solo and small gang fights. Unlike POS killing and large fleet fights, these are the situations where people actually USE faction ships. And since the balance issues, fundamental tactics, etc, are all completely different from POSes/fleet fights, you will get feedback that you could not get from your current plan.



Or take the third option: admit that all this talk of "balance" is just a way to get lots of people to sign on for your stress test. Seriously, we would have a much higher opinion of your judgment if you just admitted the faction ships are just bait, rather than pretty much the worst possible approach to balancing you could possibly think of.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.29 20:00:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 29/08/2009 19:59:55
I'm sure CCP learned alot about faction ship balance by putting 200 of them in a fleet and repeatedly doomsdaying them Very Happy

Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.08.29 20:07:00 - [53]
 

Test just finished. CCP WeirdFish Accidently my whole computer, had to hard reboot.

MJ Maverick
IronPig
Sev3rance
Posted - 2009.08.29 20:07:00 - [54]
 

Good event, except the noobs following the test fleet around picking them off.

Was fun though lol, I didn't even have the DD effect on and I still lagged to hell and back :o

Etien Aldragoran
Legitimate Corporation
Posted - 2009.08.29 20:37:00 - [55]
 

CCP finally realized this for the Naglfar and now it's time to realize it for the faction ships (and rest of minnie ships as well)

SPLIT BONUSES DO NOT WORK

Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.08.29 21:19:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
CCP finally realized this for the Naglfar and now it's time to realize it for the faction ships (and rest of minnie ships as well)

SPLIT BONUSES DO NOT WORK
Wtb more turret slots for navy comet.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.08.29 22:13:00 - [57]
 

read:
95% of veterans with in depth knowledge dont want to change it the way we do. we've hired the other 5%. now we need lots of newb posts with bs lvl1 until we have enough piled up to point at and say "the community wanted it, too"

amirite?

something somethingdark
Posted - 2009.08.30 00:25:00 - [58]
 

couldnt make it ... but
whers the feedback ?

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.30 08:49:00 - [59]
 

I will now give elaborate review of needed changes to faction ships based on the testserver event:

Faction ships are not that great against POS because they are too easy to kill by turrets. So all faction ships need their HP boosted by at leat 300%. But that doesnt change the fact that faction ships often are overpriced in the LP shop compared to stock T1 Ships, resulting in way too expensive doomsday defeats for faction ship fleets. So i suggest to lower LP costs by global -90%.

But this doesnt address the individual ships shortcomings in POS and Fleet Fights. For example, Guristas ships are clearly intended to use split weapons. So we should give the Rattlesnake, Worm and Gila some additional launcher slots, so they can fight both short and long range targets at the same time, which is crucial in organized fleets.

We cant forget Sansha ships either! Modern fleets are clearly focused on remote armor repair, so we should reduce sansha ships shields by 50% and give them a remote armor repair bonus instead of the laser damage bonus. This will help them in fleet fights and against POSes!

Where does that leave Blood Raider vessels? Clearly they have no role in big fleets right now. So lets fix that by giving them long range nos! +97,275% Nos range per level should be the perfectly balanced amount to give these ships the needed edge in fleet fights. This will also give projectils their much needed boost, because Tempests can fight on without cap! Two fixes in one!

Last but not least Angels! They are clearly not up to par! The Machariel is way too big and thus an easy target for enemy snipers. Reduce its size by 33% to bring it in line with other Battleships! I didnt fly the other Angel ships last night, so maybe we can reduce their size too, i dont know. But this should be enough for angel ships, they are very powerful i heard!

This should bring faction ships in line for Fleet and POS warfare!


Sera Ryskin
Posted - 2009.08.30 08:55:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 29/08/2009 19:59:55
I'm sure CCP learned alot about faction ship balance by putting 200 of them in a fleet and repeatedly doomsdaying them Very Happy




I guess this is CCP's concession that the whole "faction ship balance" thing was pure bull*** and just an attempt to get enough people to show up for their stress test?


I mean, I'm sure it would be wonderful for every faction ship to be able to tank a DD or ten, but does anyone honestly think that we're going to see any fixes coming, with this kind of hilariously stupid "testing"?


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