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blankseplocked [Proposal] Demand-based pricing for highsec science and industry jobs
 
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ElanMorin6
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.08.22 21:11:00 - [1]
 

It has long struck me as unusual that in a hyper-capitalistic economy like EVE's manufacturing & research costs at NPC stations are completely static. Everything else is allowed to fluctuate due to supply & demand (even office rental costs), yet even the most in-demand factories don't charge a premium for their services.

Fixing this oversight would help to disperse market hubs, increase manufacturing costs to a non-trivial isk sink, and could even make lowsec potentially useful. Shocked



Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2009.08.22 21:33:00 - [2]
 

I'm industrial and supporting a goonswarm idea.

*goes to commit seppuku now.*

it works for me though. if you want high sec jobs done and dont have to worry about flexing rates like they would be get a tower.

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.08.22 21:55:00 - [3]
 

I'm no industry buff- but as far as I can see, this would have primarily positive impacts.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2009.08.22 22:19:00 - [4]
 

This proposal is a double edged sword.... but its necessary.

Supported.

Nur AlHuda
Amarr
Callide Vulpis
Posted - 2009.08.22 23:27:00 - [5]
 

support


Atiana Obaani
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.08.23 00:39:00 - [6]
 

A goon came up with this before anyone else? Holy ****ing moses.

Absolutely supporting this most awesome idea.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.08.23 03:15:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 23/08/2009 03:14:51
Not as good as the various proposals to open up POS lab slots publicly, but since CCP has nixed those, this seems to be the next-best thing.

ElanMorin6
Garoun Investment Bank

Posted - 2009.08.23 03:19:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Atiana Obaani
A goon posted this before anyone else?


I hope this minor change to your quote clears things up for you.Razz

Jaskey
Amarr
Black Core Federation
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.23 07:23:00 - [9]
 


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.23 07:26:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/08/2009 07:30:56
Originally by: Atiana Obaani
A goon came up with this before anyone else? Holy ****ing moses.

Absolutely supporting this most awesome idea.


It has been proposed a lot of times already.

It will damage new players most as older players will be capable of put up a research POS in high sec by themselves or paying someone to start a corporation with the needed standing.

To me it seem more a way to kick in the balls budding industrialist than anything useful.

Originally by: ElanMorin6

Fixing this oversight would help to disperse market hubs, increase manufacturing costs to a non-trivial isk sink, and could even make lowsec potentially useful. Shocked



Will not touch market hubs, it will simply add more hauling;
it will increase manufacturing and research cost for new industrialist while all the others use POS
there will be no more people building in low sec than today as there are a lot of moons in high sec.

It will increase ice prices and add POS spam but I suppose that as long as other people is forced in that game it is all ok.

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.08.23 08:41:00 - [11]
 

yes

Slave 2739FKZ
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.23 09:49:00 - [12]
 

Support.

But please introduce variable taxing regarding trade volume too, THAT will disperse trading hubs.

Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us

Posted - 2009.08.23 11:09:00 - [13]
 

Might cause some problems, but considering the problems it would solve, I'm willing to suffer the consequences.

ElanMorin6
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.08.23 20:22:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
It will damage new players most as older players will be capable of put up a research POS in high sec by themselves or paying someone to start a corporation with the needed standing.


Will not touch market hubs, it will simply add more hauling;
it will increase manufacturing and research cost for new industrialist while all the others use POS
there will be no more people building in low sec than today as there are a lot of moons in high sec.

It will increase ice prices and add POS spam but I suppose that as long as other people is forced in that game it is all ok.


POS aren't free to setup or maintain, so older players putting one up blindly could find themselves at a disadvantage in a hurry. On top of that POS are actually vulnerable to disruption, giving new players an alternate way to muscle in on the competition.

There are already plenty of manufacturing slots in highsec (nevermind lowsec/nullsec) that are rarely used, for which costs wouldn't move noticably. Yes, it would involve more hauling to use them; I consider trading effort for profit to be completely in the spirit of EVE's economy.

I see this change as mostly working against the entrenched industrialists living in Jita 4-4 with billions of isk worth of buy and sell orders up at all times, who can make just as much profit without ever leaving the station as an industrist setup in a more remote area. If a battleship were 500k isk cheaper to build somewhere out in the slums it would be substantially easier for a new player working in batches of 3-5 ships to compete with the entrenched players who never leave 4-4.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles

Posted - 2009.08.23 20:25:00 - [15]
 

As someone using 60+ slots at a time, I support this idea.

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2009.08.24 13:15:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Atiana Obaani
A goon came up with this before anyone else? Holy ****ing moses.

Absolutely supporting this most awesome idea.


No, it was actually an idea that was born out of the first CSM delegate threads before they presented ideas to CCP. LVV compiled a list of requests and this idea was one of them that was thought up, but dropped for presentation in lieu of other more pressing matters.

Origin aside though, I'm glad its been brought up again.

Supported

Cyberman Mastermind
Posted - 2009.08.24 13:47:00 - [17]
 

Standings should be taken into account as well.

Trebor DeCaldar
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.08.24 17:13:00 - [18]
 

I support this

Alexander Knott
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.08.24 17:21:00 - [19]
 

Supported.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.24 17:53:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: ElanMorin6
Originally by: Venkul Mul
It will damage new players most as older players will be capable of put up a research POS in high sec by themselves or paying someone to start a corporation with the needed standing.



POS aren't free to setup or maintain, so older players putting one up blindly could find themselves at a disadvantage in a hurry.


POS cost is negligible for a veteran.

Originally by: ElanMorin6

On top of that POS are actually vulnerable to disruption, giving new players an alternate way to muscle in on the competition.


How? Destroying some random POS in cruisers? (I did my first research on a ammo BPO when I was still flying cruisers)

Destroying a POS will be a way to try to stop someone from selling BPC but will in no way free copy/ME/PE slots for a young player.


Originally by: ElanMorin6

There are already plenty of manufacturing slots in highsec (nevermind lowsec/nullsec) that are rarely used, for which costs wouldn't move noticably. Yes, it would involve more hauling to use them; I consider trading effort for profit to be completely in the spirit of EVE's economy.


Here we agree, it will increase hauling, good for those in that business.

Originally by: ElanMorin6

I see this change as mostly working against the entrenched industrialists living in Jita 4-4 with billions of isk worth of buy and sell orders up at all times, who can make just as much profit without ever leaving the station as an industrist setup in a more remote area. If a battleship were 500k isk cheaper to build somewhere out in the slums it would be substantially easier for a new player working in batches of 3-5 ships to compete with the entrenched players who never leave 4-4.


Sure, you pay 500K less to build a BS in a out of way location and then pay 50K for jump (or your play time) to bring it in a trade hub.

Hardly helpful for the builder, especially as he alredy paid to get the minerals in his building station.

Again it will help entrenched players with freighter alts and damage new players.

But effectively GoonSwarm is a entrenched alliance, so you are minding your interest, in very EVE like fashion.

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.08.25 03:49:00 - [21]
 

yes

Aethrwolf
Caldari
Podrratu
Posted - 2009.08.25 03:58:00 - [22]
 

This wouldnt affect budding industrialists as much as some of you seem to think, many of them start out using bpcs off of the contracts, and dont need the research slots right away. This would free up npc research slots a bit so ppl can start research jobs much sooner than they may have been able to, otherwise. As I can ALWAYS find plenty of manufacturing slots with little or no wait, this probably wouldnt affect new builders much at all.

A possible positive secondary effect of this would be to spread players out a bit as they look for available slots without a high price due to demand for them. Especially if they are running missions in addition to manufacturing.. "well, this new agent isnt quite as good as the one in that hub, but I save more in my manufacturing slots than I lose in agent rewards."

I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2009.08.25 10:05:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
As someone using 60+ slots at a time, I support this idea.


As someone using 60+ slots at a time... I agree... but by the gods make the manuf/research interface better!!!

Move POS cargo to a single static storage area (hangar/tower) and have associated manufacturing locations take from that stockpile. Managing materials is a bloody nightmare!!!

ElanMorin6
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:47:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Again it will help entrenched players with freighter alts and damage new players.


People like Kazuo using 60+ build slots will, by their heavy usage, cause their build costs to go up. Powerusers of NPC build slots will have a much harder time finding low-cost build slots.

And lets be honest here, a battleship requires ~100k m^3 in raw minerals to build, so new players trying to get into that market already need to have substantial hauling ability or understand courier contracts. Everything else can be pretty easily handled by a T1 industrial. Yes, it requires more time input from everyone looking to maximize their profits, but smaller-scale manufacturers are much more flexible and this gives them greater ability to undercut the entrenched manufacturers by saving on production costs.


Quote:
But effectively GoonSwarm is a entrenched alliance, so you are minding your interest, in very EVE like fashion.


Projecting a bit, are we? Razz

Corey Feldman
Posted - 2009.08.26 06:42:00 - [25]
 

They do it for offices already, why not?


 

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