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Robert Hudson
Posted - 2009.08.20 19:01:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: VonCruix
A)Game Balance - It gets modifed as needed.

So if DUST players are having too much of an impact on EVE, said impact will be scaled back? Wow, how creative. Diminishing the impact of a new title, thus negating the reason for having it tie into EVE. I'm at a loss for words.

Originally by: VonCruix
B)I'm not sure the current player base has a positive effect on this game.

Silly and pointless statement. We're talking about the player base of a new game affecting an old game, not debating whether those of us who have "paid our dues" are worthy of continuing to do so.

Originally by: VonCruix
C)The game has been in Development for 3yrs now, and we still get Expansions for Eve that many are still able to complain about.

Non-issue. My point was that EVE itself should have been expanded to allow for planetary ground combat, if indeed that the ultimate goal of DUST was to move the fight in EVE from the stars into the streets.


Erik Amirault
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.08.20 19:02:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: VonCruix
Originally by: Robert Hudson
Points taken, however:

a) How can you guarantee that the loss of control for EVE players will be "marginal"?

b) How can you be sure that this "expanded player base" will have a positive impact on how this game is played?

c) How can you justify the diversion of CCP resources away from a game enjoyed by entitled '03 douchebags like me and into a game that primarily serves as a revenue/population-booster when they could just as easily have found a way to expand EVE's current environmental offering?



A)Game Balance - It gets modifed as needed.
B)I'm not sure the current player base has a positive effect on this game.
C)The game has been in Development for 3yrs now, and we still get Expansions for Eve that many are still able to complain about.




QFE

The only information we have right now, at the very least, is that CCP has taken the profits they have earned (!) and used that to make a console FPS that ties into EVE in a weak manner (by default, it will have to; do you think Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo (I know) would allow such a game to be released that would hook up entirely to EVE? the amount of data being sent back and forth would be scary).

Of course, we could not look at what CCP has done while still having this in production; the constant expansions, the ever-changing game itself, and don't forget the constant and massive server upgrades. But hey, let's ***** about something that is little more than an idea, and an impermanent (and very weakly fleshed out) one at that, that's easy to do.

Robert Hudson
Posted - 2009.08.20 19:17:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Erik Amirault
The only information we have right now, at the very least, is that CCP has taken the profits they have earned (!) and used that to make a console FPS that ties into EVE

That pretty much sums up my problem right there.

Resources. Diverted. New game. New platform. Loosely associated but with a direct impact?

Come on.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.08.20 19:19:00 - [184]
 

Some people view the glass as half full.

Others view the glass as half empty.

And then we have the people that emphatically scream that the water should never have been poured into their glass to begin with as, to them, it now poses a very real risk of them drowning.

Such are the forums of EVE.


T'san Manaan
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.20 19:56:00 - [185]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1154963

For anybody who actually wants to talk about what they would like to see in DUST 514 and not just argue over its bad or not without knowing any of the actual details.

Robert Hudson
Posted - 2009.08.20 20:07:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Robert Hudson on 20/08/2009 20:08:27
Originally by: T'san Manaan
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1154963

For anybody who actually wants to talk about what they would like to see in DUST 514 and not just argue over its bad or not without knowing any of the actual details.

Please bro, we don't need "constructivists" barging in with this "we have no details" crap. There are plenty of details out there. If you can't be bothered to read them or take part in the discussion about whether this will positively/negatively impact EVE, have a snausage and enjoy the other thread. There is no point in trying to quash debate over this, because it will continue regardless. You'd have about as much luck telling Americans to stop discussing universal healthcare reform as you will telling other EVE players they shouldn't be debating the merits (or lack thereof) of introducing an EVE FPS tie-in.

T'san Manaan
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.20 20:19:00 - [187]
 

I'm not saying don't have the debate, I'm just saying that this debate has consuned every thread on the subject. Now that everyones initial reactions are posted I wanted to start a thread that people could actually discuss what features they would like to see in the game without having to trudge through 7 pages of this debate.

Robert Hudson
Posted - 2009.08.20 20:35:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: T'san Manaan
I'm not saying don't have the debate, I'm just saying that this debate has consuned every thread on the subject. Now that everyones initial reactions are posted I wanted to start a thread that people could actually discuss what features they would like to see in the game without having to trudge through 7 pages of this debate.

Well stated. I revoke my grumpy post.

Sure there's things to discuss about DUST. Of course it's going to happen regardless. Naturally we, as players, will have no say in this.

But that won't prevent me from griping about it, dammit! Wink

Trathen
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.20 21:41:00 - [189]
 

Dust 514, as far as console gaming is concerned, is destined for failure. Congratulations, CCP, for choosing the most flooded market in the video game world. We're talking about a genre in which good FPSs stay on the shelves because players already have enough top-notch console FPSs. This game should spend a long time in development. You're up against the likes of Call of Duty, Halo, Team Fortress 2, all of which have an irrationally loyal fanbase. Why am I going to put down my AK-47 for your space nerd game? Why would I replace Master Chief with another space marine? It's not that I'm not pulling for CCP, but I hope your plan for EVE takes full account for the complete failure of Dust 514. I mean that with much love.

If I had any constructive criticism. Study your FPSs well. All the cute little RTS mechanics and gameplay whistles in the world won't mean a goddamn thing if the game feels like crap... and that is pretty subjective. Sometimes something as simple as a machine gun appearing like it has no recoil can ruin the entire experience. But why would I be worried? CCP doesn't have a habit of focusing on extras while forgetting about intuitive, smooth, and responsive controls. Oh...

Originally by: Akita T
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't "this gen" consoles have the ability to use a mouse and/or keyboard if you really wanted to ?



Yes but most FPS's don't support it. They don't support it because it creates an unfair advantage. It's usually for web browsing and such.


riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.08.20 22:05:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Trathen
Dust 514, as far as console gaming is concerned, is destined for failure. Congratulations, CCP, for choosing the most flooded market in the video game world. We're talking about a genre in which good FPSs stay on the shelves because players already have enough top-notch console FPSs. This game should spend a long time in development. You're up against the likes of Call of Duty, Halo, Team Fortress 2, all of which have an irrationally loyal fanbase. Why am I going to put down my AK-47 for your space nerd game? Why would I replace Master Chief with another space marine? It's not that I'm not pulling for CCP, but I hope your plan for EVE takes full account for the complete failure of Dust 514. I mean that with much love.

If I had any constructive criticism. Study your FPSs well. All the cute little RTS mechanics and gameplay whistles in the world won't mean a goddamn thing if the game feels like crap... and that is pretty subjective. Sometimes something as simple as a machine gun appearing like it has no recoil can ruin the entire experience. But why would I be worried? CCP doesn't have a habit of focusing on extras while forgetting about intuitive, smooth, and responsive controls. Oh...

Originally by: Akita T
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't "this gen" consoles have the ability to use a mouse and/or keyboard if you really wanted to ?



Yes but most FPS's don't support it. They don't support it because it creates an unfair advantage. It's usually for web browsing and such.



THIS

SheriffFruitfly
Caldari
Posted - 2009.08.20 22:27:00 - [191]
 

Over 1/2 of all xboxes fail.

Great choice of platform to move to, ccp.


VonCruix
Posted - 2009.08.20 22:56:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Some people view the glass as half full.

Others view the glass as half empty.

And then we have the people that emphatically scream that the water should never have been poured into their glass to begin with as, to them, it now poses a very real risk of them drowning.

Such are the forums of EVE.




Ah, yes. I think this sums it up nicely. Laughing

Zarro Starkiler
Caldari
Infernus Hypertech
Posted - 2009.08.21 00:48:00 - [193]
 

Throughout this entire thing I've seen people complain about this being in out of pod. DUST takes place on the ground away from our ships, so should it not be in out of pod?

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.21 00:49:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Zarro Starkiler
Throughout this entire thing I've seen people complain about this being in out of pod. DUST takes place on the ground away from our ships, so should it not be in out of pod?
zing!


Jer Bu
Posted - 2009.08.21 01:11:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Zarro Starkiler
Throughout this entire thing I've seen people complain about this being in out of pod. DUST takes place on the ground away from our ships, so should it not be in out of pod?


LOL, awesome = )

Picking XBOX, and consoles was actually a very good idea. There are a TON of us who game on the XBOX. FPS flooded? Bull crap. Last night there were over 100,000 players online in COD4. There were over 200,000 more in COD World at War. The console gaming market is growing. It is nearly recession proof.
The community experience improves every few months, and the experience on Live is better than nearly anything we have seen.

Console games can be expanded (how about 3 map packs already for COD WAW), they can be updated and patched (2 updates last year for NHL09), the items in game can be updated, and the games can even be run from the console with no disk. Online portions of the game can be updated at ANY time.

Letting players be introduced to Eve through Dust will increase the Eve player base which is a win for everyone.

Plus I love the idea of being able to hire armies to take or hold a planet. Quite honestly, mixing the PC and Console experience is one of the coolest things I have heard in a long time.

It could fail, and Eve will go on and continue to prosper. Or it will introduce a whole new world and a whole new market to MMO's.

Its great that a company like CCP has the vision to try something like this.

Herring
Caldari
Pimpology
Posted - 2009.08.21 02:25:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Zarro Starkiler
Throughout this entire thing I've seen people complain about this being in out of pod. DUST takes place on the ground away from our ships, so should it not be in out of pod?


It absolutely should, if it wasn't tied in with sovereignity mechanics of the space game. Which it is. If you read the rules, nothing posted in OOPE is supposed even be related to eve.

OP reported again, continuing to break the rules....it's do as I say, not as I do is it?




Full Impact
New Eden Information Service
Posted - 2009.08.21 04:19:00 - [197]
 

Is this the thread that gave ccp the original idea?

http://eve-search.com/thread/559336/page/all


Herring
Caldari
Pimpology
Posted - 2009.08.21 04:54:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Full Impact
Is this the thread that gave ccp the original idea?

http://eve-search.com/thread/559336/page/all




Damn, I think you're right. Dust is -A-'s fault after all.

AmyrlinSeat
Posted - 2009.08.21 06:00:00 - [199]
 

Dust as a stand alone game using EVE's IP - fine.
Dust affecting faction warfare - fine
Dust affecting 0.0 sov - Hell fracking no!

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.08.21 06:06:00 - [200]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/08/2009 06:27:31
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/08/2009 06:26:17
Quote:
OP reported again, continuing to break the rules....it's do as I say, not as I do is it?


It's their message board, they can put it anywhere they like. They also put the big sticky pointing here at the top of General Discussion.

Now knock it off, you're beginning to sound like a petulant pre-teen.

Quote:
Dust affecting 0.0 sov - Hell fracking no!


The fate of a planet under siege from orbit being decided by savage close range fighting on the ground - YES!

The security of the planets under your control depending on your fleets effectively keeping enemy ships from establishing a beach to launch an invasion from - YES!

The necessity of having boots on the ground in addition to maintaining a fleet presence in the skies over the planets in a solar system if you want to successfully wrest sov from an opponent who is determined to keep you out - YES!

Being part of the first real time merging of two entirely different gaming platforms and communities to achieve common goals in the same gaming universe - Hell YES!


* Awkwardly edited because I type slow at this time of night.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.21 06:16:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote:
OP reported again, continuing to break the rules....it's do as I say, not as I do is it?


It's their message board, they can put it anywhere they like. They also put the big sticky pointing here at the top of General Discussion.

Now knock it off, you're beginning to sound like a petulant pre-teen.

The mods moved it here so there would be room on the gd for the inevitable patch day whinges. Just take a quick galce at the gd and you will see what I mean. Also if you notice they took away the sticky in the gd about only using oope to discuss dust and have left several active dust topics unlocked and unmoved.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.08.21 06:30:00 - [202]
 

I think you nailed it in one Zeba.

Now perhaps our freelance forum moderators can relax.

Herring
Caldari
Pimpology
Posted - 2009.08.21 07:49:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/08/2009 06:27:31
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/08/2009 06:26:17
Quote:
OP reported again, continuing to break the rules....it's do as I say, not as I do is it?


It's their message board, they can put it anywhere they like. They also put the big sticky pointing here at the top of General Discussion.

Now knock it off, you're beginning to sound like a petulant pre-teen.


Hmmm, it takes one to know one? I'm not making the rules here, they are. Just quoting them. You're right about it being their forums and their rules. If they want to set the precedent by not following them, more power to them.

It just encourages others not to, as well. The precedent is what sets scene for the next person who performs the same action. For instance, insulting someone over the internet and telling them that they should discontinue voicing their opinions on a forum. Rolling Eyes

Why don't you take your own advice, and put it where the sun don't shine? Laughing





Veron Nostal
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.21 08:52:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: Veron Nostal on 21/08/2009 09:03:28
Edited by: Veron Nostal on 21/08/2009 08:53:58
Edited by: Veron Nostal on 21/08/2009 08:52:58
A better look at the Video of last years fanfest 2008, look at time line 12.00 onwards for a more detailed version of the video.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/49239

check out time line 8.13 for a glimpe of a possible Weapon to be used in DUST, Clue! Its on the table.

VonCruix
Posted - 2009.08.21 09:08:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: VonCruix on 21/08/2009 09:08:29
Originally by: Veron Nostal
Edited by: Veron Nostal on 21/08/2009 09:03:28
Edited by: Veron Nostal on 21/08/2009 08:53:58
Edited by: Veron Nostal on 21/08/2009 08:52:58
A better look at the Video of last years fanfest 2008, look at time line 12.00 onwards for a more detailed version of the video.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/49239

check out time line 8.13 for a glimpe of a possible Weapon to be used in DUST, Clue! Its on the table.


I had forgotten about that scene at the end of the vid.
I had orginally thought it was from another game, not by CCP.

Looks to be our first view of DUST 514, last year. We just didn't know it. Smile

TC wabbajack
Prosperity Through Violence
Unprovoked Aggression
Posted - 2009.08.21 10:50:00 - [206]
 

I'm currently playing killzone 2 wishing I could have my mega laying down suppressing fire on the the caldar...,sorry,helghast.


as primarily PS3 based gamer,I'm genuine excited to see what CCP will do with dust.


JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.08.21 13:42:00 - [207]
 

The scenarios that i can see.

Dust is influencing EVE in minimal way.
Result : 0.0 people just ignore dust whatsoever.

Dust is influencing EVE in a way that actually matters to the 0.0 people.
Result : Recruitment message of 0.0 alliance "Ventrillo and Xbox mandatory".

For the sake of EVE lets hope the situation one will happen.

CCP is about to SHARD EVE universe.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.08.21 16:59:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Herring
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/08/2009 06:27:31
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/08/2009 06:26:17
Quote:
OP reported again, continuing to break the rules....it's do as I say, not as I do is it?


It's their message board, they can put it anywhere they like. They also put the big sticky pointing here at the top of General Discussion.

Now knock it off, you're beginning to sound like a petulant pre-teen.


Hmmm, it takes one to know one? I'm not making the rules here, they are. Just quoting them. You're right about it being their forums and their rules. If they want to set the precedent by not following them, more power to them.

It just encourages others not to, as well. The precedent is what sets scene for the next person who performs the same action. For instance, insulting someone over the internet and telling them that they should discontinue voicing their opinions on a forum. Rolling Eyes

Why don't you take your own advice, and put it where the sun don't shine? Laughing







I wasn't insulting you, just pointing out the painfully obvious. Wink

Lussac Trigalle
Posted - 2009.08.21 17:35:00 - [209]
 

sorry cross posted - but this seems to be the place to comment & didn't see it util afterwards...

I know some people will disagree with me but personally I think CCP have done a pretty good job with EVE since I first played in 2003, I have had a few sabbaticals but every time I have returned the game has got better & so much more complex. I remember the 10k players online milestone & we were all amazed :)

The one thing that seems clear to me is that CCP do care about their game, they also care enough about the players to involve them far more than any other game maker out there - fanfest, the player council, massive forums, ISD etc... etc... sure they make mistakes sometimes - who doesn't?

WOW players still have to choose which server they are going to play on & 2nd Life has no purpose other than advertising. CCP is unique in its original vision & continuing dedication to EVE.

The idea for DUST is typically ambitious, and the current details too light to really be able to make any judgement on how it will turn out, but EVE-online has always grown by increments.

My own feeling is that the console decision is a way to introduce thousands of new players to the universe of Eve. In addition the FPS planet concept is a stepping stone on CCP's continued path to the world's most complex, comprehensive and immersive virtual universe in existence. The possibilities for the future are legion & very exciting

As for all the premature complaints - some responses...

The servers are hardware agnostic - it doesn't matter if the data is coming from a PS3, XBox, pc, or mobile phone.

All my gaming friends are around my age (40+) and all have a PC (or more) and either a PS3, Xb360 or both.

The hardware in the current consoles has not been fully utilised by any existing game yet - perhaps GT-5 might come close (if it is ever released!) but from history more likely GT6 in 10 years time :p

Releasing DUST for the console in no way prevents it from being released for the PC or incorporated into EVE at some future date (perhaps once the fickle consolers have moved on)

Like EVE the initial idea for DUST is just that, it will change over time, become more complex and all players in the EVE universe will have the opportunity to express their delight or despair about the announced direction.

I can't count the ragequits that have been expressed at modifications to the game in the past and yet the player base has just continued to grow.

I am happy to wait and see but if anyone can pull off an epic idea that no one else has achieved I think CCP are currently the most likely candidates to make it succeed.

Message ends....

Klashed
KNET Intelligence
Posted - 2009.08.21 18:30:00 - [210]
 

I like the idea. I think it's just mainly the "PC's are superior" crowd that are crying over it at the moment.

Means PC nerds who have never played consoles before might have to accept that there are other viable platforms, and deal with new people. (And the majority aren't <18 year olds, the whiners just shout this.) FPS on consoles work well, a few hundred thousand people playing FPS games every night that are a few years old can't be too wrong.

Even if DUST can't keep up with COD/Halo etc, I'm pretty sure there are ALOT of people who play EVE with both a PC and an Xbox/PS3, meaning there will always be groups of people available to hire. The RTS style will definitely keep people playing. Big alliances who require alot of planetary warefare could keep a regular DUST squad recruited from consoles/current alliance easily.


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