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Peter VonThal
Raygun Technologies
Posted - 2009.08.20 00:51:00 - [121]
 

This thread needs some more speculation!

CCP has been "delaying" the redoing of planetary graphics with one excuse or another since Trinity. Now that we are getting a form of planetary interaction, could we be getting some new, completely cool visual/informational feedback from Dust on a new planetary graphics system?


E'zael
Posted - 2009.08.20 00:51:00 - [122]
 

All I can say to you (CCP) is that I'm surprised by the announcement, and I really hope that this isn't going to be for consoles alone. If DUST 514 were to be an integrated system... a core attribute to the current EVE Online experience, you'd be a part of something so fantastic that nobody has ever dared to dream of being possible.

Others may have tried, but let me tell you... they failed. I think that DUST 514 would best be utilized by the current EVE Online player base, for starters. So my opinion is that DUST 514 shouldn't just be a console title, but a PC title as well. I'd gladly pay $60 for a PC version of DUST 514 that could be linked to my current EVE Online account.

Now obviously, there's a lot of room to speculate as to what the gameplay elements of DUST 514 will be. My speculation is it'll be a tactical shooter where a player engages in combat with other players, and also commands a squad of AI they can issue real-time orders to in the field, and that there will be a separate skill system, not too dissimilar from EVE Online, where a player can specialize what type of soldier he is. Is he a leader, or is he a follower? Does he prefer stealth tactics, or does he prefer out-and-out in-your-face bloody combat?

If my speculation is correct, a system such as this could be integrated into EVE Online, allowing pod pilots to take up arms planetside, but only after specific training that is unique to pod pilots to condition them for ground combat. Because lets face it, in the world of EVE, the true commanders of the battlefield are the ones in the skies above. However, having the ability to start out as a foot soldier would still be readily available to those of us who have free character slots. Maybe even the option to purchase additional character slots could be added for players who integrate a DUST account into their EVE account.

In my opinion, this would be the best course to take with DUST. That being... DUST 514 being available for PC, and allowing seamless integration of a DUST account into an EVE account, unlocking the potential for pod pilots to shed their metal skin, and take up arms on the ground. I know that from my perspective... if I was contracting a military force in EVE to take control of a planetary sector, I'd want to be on the ground with a weapon in-hand to make sure it gets done right.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:01:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: E'zael
All I can say to you (CCP) is that I'm surprised by the announcement, and I really hope that this isn't going to be for consoles alone. If DUST 514 were to be an integrated system... a core attribute to the current EVE Online experience, you'd be a part of something so fantastic that nobody has ever dared to dream of being possible.

Others may have tried, but let me tell you... they failed. I think that DUST 514 would best be utilized by the current EVE Online player base, for starters. So my opinion is that DUST 514 shouldn't just be a console title, but a PC title as well. I'd gladly pay $60 for a PC version of DUST 514 that could be linked to my current EVE Online account.

Now obviously, there's a lot of room to speculate as to what the gameplay elements of DUST 514 will be. My speculation is it'll be a tactical shooter where a player engages in combat with other players, and also commands a squad of AI they can issue real-time orders to in the field, and that there will be a separate skill system, not too dissimilar from EVE Online, where a player can specialize what type of soldier he is. Is he a leader, or is he a follower? Does he prefer stealth tactics, or does he prefer out-and-out in-your-face bloody combat?

If my speculation is correct, a system such as this could be integrated into EVE Online, allowing pod pilots to take up arms planetside, but only after specific training that is unique to pod pilots to condition them for ground combat. Because lets face it, in the world of EVE, the true commanders of the battlefield are the ones in the skies above. However, having the ability to start out as a foot soldier would still be readily available to those of us who have free character slots. Maybe even the option to purchase additional character slots could be added for players who integrate a DUST account into their EVE account.

In my opinion, this would be the best course to take with DUST. That being... DUST 514 being available for PC, and allowing seamless integration of a DUST account into an EVE account, unlocking the potential for pod pilots to shed their metal skin, and take up arms on the ground. I know that from my perspective... if I was contracting a military force in EVE to take control of a planetary sector, I'd want to be on the ground with a weapon in-hand to make sure it gets done right.
My guess is that this is exactly what is going to happen. All this console only info is because ccp has no presence in the console market and already has a huge presence in the pc so all thier focus will be on getting console players aware and interested. Its already a given that an integrated pc release will sell immediatly.ugh

Downtym
Amarr
Ajo Heavy Industries
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:02:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: GeeShizzle McCloud

1) Console vs PC
CCP's initialy said console only, due to it being ported to the Xbox its a very short step to being made PC compatible. BUT has anyone thought about the skill involved in pwning using a keyboard and mouse vs a gamepad? if console players fought pc players in fps games, console players would rage! and rightly so. bear that in mind guys and girls!!



The sentence in bold is beyond confusing.

Quote:
2) why 514?
now ive heard about hints to clones and to the next novel coming out to reveal something to do with the 514 number. my interpretation? your initial purchase of Dust 514 alows u to play and to fight, it allows you to die... 514 times. then u purchase a licence like eve online players buy a months game time. for 514 more lives. storyline styled reasons could be that cloning a single DNA chain degrades after 514th generation.


This would be the worst idea in history. You could hang it in the worst idea hall of fame right next to that bottle of Zima and the Virtual Boy.

Quote:
4)Planetary bombardment
if anyone at CCP knows anything about war in any shape or form its that air power trumps all,


If anyone at CCP knows anything about war in any shape or form then that just ignored what you said.

Quote:
and when u couple an fps ground warfare with a MMO space sim, dont u think theyd think that ud have the ability to completely control the skies and in effect crush any opposition down below?


Except for maybe a very small handful of people that used air power in Battlefield, I spent a lot of time laughing at the occasional helicopter or jet that flew by and got turned into paste. Tanks and Walkers (Specific to 2142) scared the ever living crap out of me. In a game of capture and control, air power's greatest use is anti-vehicle and relaying enemy movements. I'd rather have a grunt on the ground with a machinegun than 5 flyboys swooping by and wasting ammo on targets they have no hope of hitting.

Quote:
do we not already have bunkers in factional warfare that are a target for control of space? ccp could easily allocate 6 bunkers around a planet that if you have control over while there is still an active campaign on the planet, it allows a planetary bombardment of enemy forces.


Yes, but what's the use of bombarding the enemy mercilessly if you intend to capture the planet? Directed orbital bombardment is a useful strategic tool to hit a base or a hardened position, but once the fighting turns to the cities you don't want to strike those unless you plan on glassing the planet and starting the infrastructure over. A valid tactic, but useless if you actually intend to capture and hold.

Quote:
but as anything in eve, if theres the option for planetary bombardment, the campaign on Dust servers will probably centre on clone points and planetary defence installations.


Go read Footfall and understand why the concept of a "Planetary Defense Installation" is ridiculous.

VonCruix
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:04:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Peter VonThal
This thread needs some more speculation!



Fine. I think CCP is making this move to allow people, who don't want to train for 5 yrs to do anything worth while in Eve, to take part is this great Universe. To enrichen them.

The reason that people are against it is due to their lack of interpersonal relationship skills.
If they can't force them to be slaves with the threat to kick them out of their super cool Alliance, they don't think they will be able to control these insta gratification getting, non deserving, no life having, Pod Pilot wantabees.

Its all about the control stupid.
Oh yea, it might actually bring some diversity to the game, God forbid that.

I heard a rumor that CCP might make some extra spending money, but I'm waiting on confirmation of that.

Jack DuVal
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:13:00 - [126]
 

( 514 )10 = ( 0000 0010 0000 0010 )2 = ( 0202 )16

514 employees working for CCP ?
514 = EAD ?

Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:20:00 - [127]
 

Console. FPS. You can integrate EvE with a toaster next.

I mean it is not unexpected and not something I would not do in your place. But from the looks of it it is way too detached and any connections to EvE would most likely be gimmicks unless you want to nuke your flagship.

Also, you overestimate EvE IP.

FlyingSpaghettiMonster
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:26:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Downtym
Go read Footfall and understand why the concept of a "Planetary Defense Installation" is ridiculous.


WOOO!

I get the reference! Laughing

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:33:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Forge Lag
Console. FPS. You can integrate EvE with a toaster next.

I mean it is not unexpected and not something I would not do in your place. But from the looks of it it is way too detached and any connections to EvE would most likely be gimmicks unless you want to nuke your flagship.

Also, you overestimate EvE IP.

Actually the eve ip is well known to many general gamers. Its just all the ones I know don't have the soul devouring amounts of free time or motivation to really do anything in the game past zapping npc or sitting in a belt mining so they lose interest and let the sub lapse. Dust will let the ip become available to those who would like to be part of eve and influance events but just want a quick round or two of action. Brilliance on ccp's part and as long as the game itself is solid and made available to the pc crowd it will take off and stay flying for years to come. Yeah I'm hyped about it. Razz

Gautan Virdamot
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:36:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Gautan Virdamot on 20/08/2009 01:38:16
So it will have some yet undetermined effect on sovereignty, that being said will it be possible to claim sov at all in a system if the Dust crowd refuse to come and fight in that particular system?

VonCruix
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:45:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: VonCruix on 20/08/2009 01:45:10
Originally by: Gautan Virdamot
Edited by: Gautan Virdamot on 20/08/2009 01:38:16
So it will have some yet undetermined effect on sovereignty, that being said will it be possible to claim sov at all in a system if the Dust crowd refuse to come and fight in that particular system?


Watch the vid at this post.
Talks about what you ask a bit.



GeeShizzle McCloud
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:46:00 - [132]
 

downtym.. i love it when people with half a brain and an oversized ego pulls apart sum1s post thinking theyre all that.

firstly u havent ever played fps shooters on pc AND on consoles, because if you had you would know instinctively that the level of precision and relative ease of use of a keyboard/mouse configuration vastly exceeds any console game pad out there. if you're confused by this go back to putting pretty coloured shapes through their matching holes.

secondly.. the 514 idea... its speculation, dumbass! and i dont see u come up with anything better. plus it makes business sense for ccp to get a type of subscription from other avenues.

thirdly whats above the sky.. ohh! space! u control the space around a planet u control the sky underneath and the planet below that. i ment that comment in terms of a planetary bombardment. so u can have ur 5 men with rocket launchers, cause ill outrange and outgun u everytime.

fourthly, ur implying that theirs going to be player generated structures on this planet? that means CCP would be using Dust in colaboration with Eve Online in such a complex manner as to derive minerals from planets?? already?? the planets battlegrounds on Dust are going to be purely generated on a needs be basis. theyre not going to be custom mapped, cause if u think they are.. u can go pay the 1000's of level editors to create unique battlefields for the 1000's of planets that will be included.

and about the reference, no i havent read footfall but i understand it was written in the 80's during the cold war about an alien invasion of earth.
firstly a hell of a lots changed since the 80's! in the 80's people wouldnt have even thought the processing power of todays computers would even be possible. in the 80's no one gave an eco-activist the time of day, now a would have been president does sell out lectures on just that.
time change and peoples beliefs on what can be done changes. Planetary defences are not entirely laughable now, tho they were in the 80's, but eve isnt set in the 80's downtym! havent u realised that? so in the fictional universe set faaaaaar in the future i personally believe planetary defences wont be a joke at all!

/rant

Erik Amirault
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:47:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Gautan Virdamot
Edited by: Gautan Virdamot on 20/08/2009 01:38:16
So it will have some yet undetermined effect on sovereignty, that being said will it be possible to claim sov at all in a system if the Dust crowd refuse to come and fight in that particular system?


I imagine it'd be a non-critical part of sovereignty; that is, it only helps to have planetary sovereignty, but is in no way necessary to hold and claim that system. Only time will tell of course, and I have doubts we'll hear any solid details for another six months, minimum.

/me sits back and enjoys the tears, speculation, and conspiracy theories, nonetheless.

VonCruix
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:52:00 - [134]
 

Game "not equal" RL.
Its a game, don't expect everything to be fully realistic.

Besides, how much of what people believed in the past, about the future, actually turned out correct?
Even much of the content made in the 80s was way off, and its worse as you go farther back.
Its absurd to think that it wouldn't still be the case.

Basheron
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:52:00 - [135]
 

Pros:
I LOVE DUST 514. The short vid was awesome! The camera has a realistic feel to it. I fly by these planets with cities all over them and I can't go land there and check it out... while this game doesn't completely solve that it brings the next best thing.

Think of the furute interoperability: Planetary bombardments. Overtaking stations. Moving, building, and selling equipment for the ground forces.

Cons:
BUT....console only??? I shure hope CCP lsitens to their fanbase. I seriously want a PC release. If this is going to be an MMO it's going to need to expand. It's going to need to tie in to EVE-Online as seamless as possible. My ultimate wet dream would be for Dust 514 to be in the EVE client itself, a completely seamless transition between space and planets... but I won't get everything I want.



M

Basheron
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:55:00 - [136]
 

5 Races
14 bloodlines.

FYI

VonCruix
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:57:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Basheron
My ultimate wet dream would be for Dust 514 to be in the EVE client itself, a completely seamless transition between space and planets... but I won't get everything I want.
M


It would be nice to be walking around your fav planet, notice a hostile fleet warpin to L1, L2, or etc, and suddenly need to take cover due the large amount of ordiance raining down on the Industry Complex near by. Smile


Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:57:00 - [138]
 

there is a nasty lack of blue bars in this thread.

ccp, thanks for announcing how this effects the game we all pay for, glad to see we are taken into any account.

anyone miss the old days when devs posted and the devs were normal people rather than working for a company that just wants profits :(

GeeShizzle McCloud
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:00:00 - [139]
 

basheron... i rele do share ur passion bt i doubt itll ever go seamless :( the current eve client isnt built of the right stuff to bring fast paced fps gameplay like they want to, and then spin around to a ridiculously expansive space sim.

we'd have to wait for ccp to rewrite eve to a totally new graphics engine :S that could prove fatal.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:21:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Basheron
5 Races
14 bloodlines.

FYI
Apparently not. Minmatar have more than 3 bloodlines (Tribes), and Jove supposedly don't have bloodlines.

Aelya Blackwing
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:34:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Red Raider
Originally by: Aelya Blackwing
No need to panic any longer. I've cracked the code. DUST is pretty much all I have left of a brain. And 514 is how many brain cells I currently have but that number is dwindling every day due to my addiction to crack.

WOE is me.


Look at how cool I am when I flame by making false quotes and post internetz pix! look look!

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


FIFY (Yes I realize the irony :P)

Now that that's out of the way, I actually like the concept that dust proposes, it could be very revolutionary. Also, I have waited, along with many other MMO gamers, for a good MMOFPS. What I think would be a terrible mistake is denying PC gamers(AKA people who play eve, go figure)the ability to buy the game and play it on the same machine they play eve on.(again, go figure) By restricting it to consoles only it really does come off as a massive slap in the face to the players that have worked hard to make eve what it is. Theres just simply no strong reason for it. The only reason CCP gave is that playing an fps with a controller is playing with a handicap vs how much easier keyboard + mouse control is. It's a very weak reason to deny your original customers access to dust. (unless they have the needed console of course) It will leave a very bad taste in a lot of original customers mouths to know that if they want any control over a planets control and sovereignty they already worked hard to establish, they better have the right console.

Great concept, and i'll be right there when/IF the PC version comes. If not, I can't see it going over well at all.

zinatar
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:47:00 - [142]
 

Ok heres my thoughts on this,who remembers mech warrior?
It was a very good game for the pc then microsoft bought out the game and ported it over to xbox and no longer suported the pc version.

The game on the xbox lasted about a year then died.

This is what im worried about microsoft buying the game from ccp and then with the interest in the xbox falls off they let the game just die.

I moved on to AA after that and then to eve, but just to see consol mentioned with anything to do with eve just brings back some bad memorys.

Slapchop Vince
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:51:00 - [143]
 

There be dust in this thar thread.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:53:00 - [144]
 

Hrm, just ran across this bit of info.

Originally by: rockpapershotgun.com
Eve Online developers CCP have filed two new trademarks pertaining to online gaming: Dust, and Dust 514.


So it is entirely possible that Dust 514 = the console game tied in to eve and Dust = wis.


Jeebus Cynoalt
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:56:00 - [145]
 

I won't be walkin' in no dusty stations ffs. Keep it clean ccp my boots are made of baby cow leather.

Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:57:00 - [146]
 

One crucial thing dawned on me: CCP is trying to move from comfortable niche into the most mainstream game style they can. This is pretty huge.

All they really have to help them is the support of the existing community that will give the FPS kiddies some feeling of relevance and belonging.

Also I doubt they plan for MMO FPS. It is just FPS that has some minor ties to the EvE universe. You dump a few bytes of items on them they dump a byte of result back and if you keep doing that you get half a ghost POS max. I would not be afraid of huge effect on SOV, they are very conservative, just look at FW (or T3 or anything really). It is pretty much completely unrelated to EvE, just using EVE as promotion which is so weak IP it is not even in the title.

Constantinee
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.08.20 03:03:00 - [147]
 

realistically, how many years before its even released or an estimated date is given i.e q2 2010..? Serious question there

Drogo Dris
Red Federation
Posted - 2009.08.20 03:04:00 - [148]
 

If I wanted to play a FPS game, that's what I'd be doing. Instead, I play EVE....far too much, I might add (currently 3 accounts here). I'll bet there are many others in the game that feel the same way. Given the success EVE has enjoyed and the loyalty of its players, do you really feel a FPS is needed to enhance the game? While CCP hasn't always listened to everything the player base has suggested or desired, they have a history of taking input from the masses and allowing that to guide decisions that ultimately affect gameplay for all of us. And that has been greatly appreciated. I haven't always agreed with the changes, but many that I didn't think I would like have worked out fine. Those changes, however, were all within the existing structure of the game and didn't involve new interfaces, separate player bases or getting away from the basic space combat element of the game.

Why is CCP going in this direction instead of fixing things that need improving in what they already have (can you say "lag in fleet fights"?). And sovereignty can be repaired in other ways with far less drastic measures.

With this change, CCP may achieve what I have failed to do on my own on a couple of other occasions....and that is get me to finally quit this addictive game for good.

Balenn
Posted - 2009.08.20 03:06:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: zinatar
Ok heres my thoughts on this,who remembers mech warrior?
It was a very good game for the pc then microsoft bought out the game and ported it over to xbox and no longer suported the pc version.

The game on the xbox lasted about a year then died.

This is what im worried about microsoft buying the game from ccp and then with the interest in the xbox falls off they let the game just die.

I moved on to AA after that and then to eve, but just to see consol mentioned with anything to do with eve just brings back some bad memorys.


I doubt CCP will ever let the rights to EVE slip anytime soon. They know they have a beautiful IP that's ridiculously full of potential and could literally be (and has been) expanded and enriched for years. If EVE does leave CCP then it will be a dark day for everyone here.

On a side note.

I kinda support the game play being dumbed down a little to fit the minds of the console kiddies only because of how it will interact with EVE Online. The console players will do what their best at: shoot, kill, respawn, mindlessly at the whims of the EVE players. We'll do the thinking so they don't have to. I only hope that the IP lore won't be diminished as well.

Kashre
Minmatar
Imperium Technologies
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2009.08.20 03:23:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Kashre on 20/08/2009 03:23:21
2 things.

1> I wish it had been a PC FPSRTSMMORPG from the get go, but it's clearly stated that it will be console. Therefore, it really *cant* be ported to PC. Cause PC FPSers will own console players left and right. The fidelity of mouse+keyboard is just far superior to gamepad sticks.

2> This game is sooooo worth it, if for no other reason than the fact that we'll be able to shoot goons in the face. IN. THE. FACE!


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