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Cypherous
Minmatar
Lions of Judah Incorporated
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:01:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Cypherous on 19/08/2009 18:01:15
EVE has sound?

No offense but many people play with the sound off due to how repetative the sounds are, is anything being done to address this particular aspect because if not i really have no desire to listen to the improved sounds

JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:11:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
FLAC support for ingame jukebox please. mp3 is for newbs.

This, mp3 is old hat now

Dirk Larien
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:52:00 - [33]
 

Great news.
Thanks cant wait

Skandrannon22
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:57:00 - [34]
 

Ya'll get sounds?

I have to constantly turn the sound off and on while in missions, as the just sometimes... quit.
Missiles, rails, lasers, damage noises... they all stop, at random. I still some other noises tho..
Is this being addressed in this fix?

-Skan

Paski
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2009.08.19 19:56:00 - [35]
 

Hooray for sounds getting love.

My priorities:
- I like the sound of my 1200mm artillery, so much that I am usually prepared to zoom in and out until I find the magic point where the sound is generated. Too close; no sound. Too far; faint sound. Just right, boom!
- I'd like to not have to mute the whole PC sound when docked in an Amarr station. Amarr station backgound noise = too much.

Good luck!

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.08.19 20:00:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: JitaBum
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
FLAC support for ingame jukebox please. mp3 is for newbs.

This, mp3 is old hat now


Actually, i'd like .ogg support. Eve already used/uses ogg, so making it available shouldn't be a problem, eh?

(Added Bonus of being able to listen to the Eve_Rock_0x.ogg and Race specific songs when i want without using my external player..)

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2009.08.19 20:35:00 - [37]
 

I may turn the sound back on.

Kane Plekkel
The Necronomicons
Posted - 2009.08.19 20:41:00 - [38]
 

Awesome news! Having used Wwise recently on a project, I can say that CCP will at least have a ton of options and functionality to make and mix sounds.

No excuses now! Twisted Evil

Eagerly awaiting new sounding goodness. Also, I'd definitely like to have support for .ogg files, as that's what Wwise uses primarily, and they're smaller, sound better, etc.

Cinori Aluben
Minmatar
Gladiators of Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.19 20:45:00 - [39]
 

Wow nice stuff. Thanks for the thought-energy on this extra layer of play. Damage notifications sound the most practical I think, and notifications in general seem to be a great idea to pursue - see Shasz' post above.
How will the mp3/whatevfile playing work? Import directories, individual files, etc.? iTunes/winAmp embedded into the client?
There should be an "ALT" mode for clients, for a quick settings adjust while using multiple clients - that way you don't have X amt of musics playing at once, or the same noises/effects. What if I'm in a fleet with 3 of my own alts? Will I hear the same noise 4 diff times because of lag/processing? Unison would be better, but disabling would be even better. That said, I wouldn't want to have to disable ALL sounds on alts.

Good Suggestions Above QFE:
1) streaming audio
2) Dampening world volume during eve-voice activity. - Shirrath
3) Associating playlists with activities. - Casiella Truza
4) Surround Sound Capability, and hearing from which direction you're being getting shot. - Keiko.

Aranis Nax
Minmatar
Minmatar United Freedom Front
The 11th Hour
Posted - 2009.08.19 22:19:00 - [40]
 

Some issues that aren't mentioned:
- sound priorities: When you are zoomed in on your ship, it often happens that sounds happening far away simply override sounds coming from your ship, meaning you don't hear anything... because the far away noise is too quiet. Very noticeable when running missions with a bazillion NPC's firing away.
- sound still running when alt-tabbed out of game: Sound continues running even when you're alt-tabbed out of game, it can be usefull sometimes when you're semi-afk mining or whatever, but other times it's only an unnecessary CPU hit. A toggle for it could be nice or default to off(who plays with sound on anyway, it's allways been terribadConfused.)

Sound just fails to be immersive. Main reason for lack of immersion from sound to me is because of the sound priorities being mixed up. When my camera drone is right next my ship I should hear my guns, but often I hear nothing or I hear some really faint sound from the NPC's.
To increase immersion you could add some ambient noise to the world, such as what the camera drone's software interprets from solar winds when looking at the star or comms traffic from ships/stations and so on.
Introducing such ambient noise would definately make things feel more alive.

Bit of rambling about sound, I would really really really like having immersive sound in eve but right now I can't stand having it on for more then 5 minutes every few months. The current implementation just does not work.

Windryder
Posted - 2009.08.19 22:34:00 - [41]
 

Some suggestions for sound;

- Pre-apocrypha there was a certain sound effect that was subtly played when you remained cloaked after passing through a jumpgate. It sounded like drones and vague voices and random screams. Please bring this back. It was horribly sinister and during the dark hours was more than a little unnerving - it hinted that doing unnatural things (like ripping a hole in the fabric of space-time) could put you closer to "things that were not meant to be". I liked that even the most mundane of things, like travel, could hint at a much darker side to what was happening.

- Post-apocrypha I cannot remember hearing "drone chatter" as your drones orbit you, idle. This was also a vaguely disturbing and sinister sound as it was the same as the sounds surrounding the rogue drone hives. It reminded you that these weapons of war were only a step away from being creatures so alien that the only communication possible was violence. And I don't mean they were only a step away from being a 0.0 alliance.

- Try randomising weapons sound effects. Create a few variations of the sound (or indeed a simple algorithm for real-time mixing of a variation) and then a lot of the harshness of the repetition would disappear. This could also be used for subtle variations in mining laser sounds for different ores.

- PVP music. Some missions have trigger points that start-up specific music that occurs no-where else in the game. Since you can detect aggro within the game, it would be awesome to have some PVP music start-up when you open fire on someone. Imagine sitting in a gate-camp for an hour with the nice ambient music going, then the gate fires, you lock them, and as you hit the hostile with the warp disruptor - "bwah dooby-doob-dooby, bwah dooby-doob-dooby, bwah dooby-doob-dooby, blah-de-blah-de-blah STAY-SHARRRN!"

- Don't let me do that again.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2009.08.19 23:18:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Aranis Nax
Some issues that aren't mentioned:
- sound priorities: When you are zoomed in on your ship, it often happens that sounds happening far away simply override sounds coming from your ship, meaning you don't hear anything... because the far away noise is too quiet. Very noticeable when running missions with a bazillion NPC's firing away.
- sound still running when alt-tabbed out of game: Sound continues running even when you're alt-tabbed out of game, it can be usefull sometimes when you're semi-afk mining or whatever, but other times it's only an unnecessary CPU hit. A toggle for it could be nice or default to off(who plays with sound on anyway, it's allways been terribadConfused.)

Sound just fails to be immersive. Main reason for lack of immersion from sound to me is because of the sound priorities being mixed up. When my camera drone is right next my ship I should hear my guns, but often I hear nothing or I hear some really faint sound from the NPC's.
To increase immersion you could add some ambient noise to the world, such as what the camera drone's software interprets from solar winds when looking at the star or comms traffic from ships/stations and so on.
Introducing such ambient noise would definately make things feel more alive.

Bit of rambling about sound, I would really really really like having immersive sound in eve but right now I can't stand having it on for more then 5 minutes every few months. The current implementation just does not work.



This about sums up my feelings. The sound engine is riddled with problems. The ones mentioned in the dev blog are the worst, but I still get frequent mess ups that aren't mentioned, and it's as good a reason as any to turn sound off.

Also, I can't stand the missile firing sound. It's terrible and grates on my ears.


Sakaane Eionell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:49:00 - [43]
 

I'm glad to see the sounds getting some love. Since Apocrypha launched there have been a LOT of bugs. I fly Amarr ships and the sound effect for the guns I use is borked--it only sounds the way it should from certain (very limited) camera angles. Otherwise I get this pitiful little stutter, or no sound at all.

Pops and clicks are not isolated to switching to or from the map. Panning the camera does it too. Sometimes this bug is so bad it cuts out an entire channel (usually the right, I find).

Another bug I've noticed is the jump gate "hum" can get stuck to your ship and follow you, even after docking. When this happens it's loud!

Please, for the love of god, do something about the exterior station sounds. There's one in particular that is absolutely awful--it sounds like a dude shouting into a megaphone, or listening to a stadium announcer from a mile away. I'm all for adding ambient sounds to create better immersion but I just don't see how the exterior station environs could possibly sound like that.

I would like for the jukebox to be more intelligent. Being able to queue my own music will be fantastic, but for those times when I want to listen to EVE music, well, it's pretty lame to be in combat and have "Treasure the Obscure" (for example) playing in the background. If I'm in combat longer than the mission "trigger" music, the jukebox should know that, as long as I or someone in the fleet has aggro, only more upbeat songs should be selected.

Overall, I think in-game sound effects should follow a simple guideline: less is more. Less volume, less repetition, less heavy-handed instruments/effects. Subtle/gentle sounds layered in please the ear and create more depth than do simplistic, caustic ones that hit you like a cudgel.

speedcat
Gallente
Human Liberty Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:52:00 - [44]
 

Quote:
Clicking and popping sounds when going into the Map and back > this is fixed now and will be a part of our next patch.


haleluja


Zex Maxwell
Caldari
Posted - 2009.08.20 04:32:00 - [45]
 

Will you be able to put in event sounds? Like if you target a player and shoot at him, it will start combat music. or If you target NPC and shoot at it, it will play a diffrent song?

Optional of coarse, some people will find it annoying.

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.20 04:39:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Zex Maxwell
Will you be able to put in event sounds? Like if you target a player and shoot at him, it will start combat music. or If you target NPC and shoot at it, it will play a diffrent song?

Optional of coarse, some people will find it annoying.


Almost EVERY game has that and it's not annoying, it gives subconcious tactical information.
If i could set it manually i'd set combat music to be calming, so throw that in if you guys can.

Sound damage notifications? Hell yeah, I'm all for more tactical notifications that are intuitive.
Had this in my personal patchnotes for 7 months too. Most of these Dev Blogs are reducing my notes. \o/ Eleven pages down to 9, it's a start.

Keep it up.

Need more dronebay on ships!

WheatGrass
Silent but Friendly
Posted - 2009.08.20 05:32:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Aranis Nax
....Sound just fails to be immersive....
When this changes you may imagine a world in which Razer, Auzentech, ASUS, or even (gasp) Creative Labs seek to be an integral part of Fanfest -just like NVIDIA did at Fanfest 2008. But, as long as audio is so lacking that many players simply turn it off, this will never happen.

What I find interesting about Wwise is that, with the other games using it, they mostly seem to be close range, first person shooter type games. Eve is not that way. If a player is bored, they may zoom in to admire the graphics or listen to the turrets but, most often, players are likely playing at an extended range.

Originally by: CCP Baldur
....The argument of having the sounds stay with the ship regardless of camera position has never been part of the plan. However, it's an interesting idea and we have started looking at this idea from different angles - we will post some ideas here later....
As true as this is, prior to Apocrypha, it seemed that ship sounds continued irregardless of the view position. The change from this with Apocrypha was Very drastic and Very unwelcome to many. I am pleased that the idea has your attention and that you are looking into ways of delivering a more engrossing audio experience.

So, you have a very challenging job, CCP Baldur. That is to make Eve audio immersive with an audio engine seemingly not designed for the play style of Eve Online. I'm sure that I'm only one of a great many number of players who have invested relatively substantially in computer related audio equipment -all for not. My surround sound head phones collect dust while my ASUS D2X PCI-E card sits neglected on the shelf.

Thank you for starting your dev blog. You've got my respect for that and the coming audio fixes will be very welcome. o7

Alakoni lshanoya
Posted - 2009.08.20 15:07:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Morphisat
Quote:

After some research we chose to go the middleware route and Audiokinetic's Wwise was selected. Implementation of it began late in Q4 of 2008 and finished in the middle of Q1 of 2009.



Gratz on buying the biggest piece of crap I have ever heard. The sound has been totally fubared ever since. Hope this new patch will fix it, but I am not holding my breath.



Laughing Bahahahahhaaha Laughing , excellent, there is nothing i can add to that. 'Cept this of course. Rolling Eyes

something somethingdark
Posted - 2009.08.20 16:33:00 - [49]
 

soooo

obviously gj on finaly updating that thing but

why release it when you already know that thers a list of nagging broken stuff ?....

just to make the aporcypha deadline ?

AeonOfTime
Minmatar
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
Posted - 2009.08.20 17:34:00 - [50]
 

Playing my own mp3s? Yay :P

I would love to be able to specify custom sound files for effects... I would finally be able to make lasers sound like, well, lasers.

Tarnia Xavian
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.20 18:17:00 - [51]
 

"...and they place the ball on the forty-four yard line."

Sakaane Eionell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2009.08.20 23:58:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Tarnia Xavian
"...and they place the ball on the forty-four yard line."


LOL. Yes, exactly! Just distorted and unintelligible, and right next to your ear!

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.21 03:32:00 - [53]
 

very nice, very very nice.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.08.21 08:06:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 21/08/2009 08:22:15
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 21/08/2009 08:19:29
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
I appreciate the effort, and like the blog (especially the MP3 player you're planning to include), but honesty dictates that I remark that the introduction of the new audio 'layer' has been less than stellar. Still more work needs to be done, I'm sure you'll agree ...

This pretty much summed up my sentiment. In particular I did have to wince a little at the statement that turret sounds had been improved, when we still have turrets that sound like the old visuals, and the new visuals don't match the sounds (e.g. how can a strobing pulse laser turning on and off 3 times per shot sound like a single firing noise?)

Edit: Aranis' post also struck a chord, if you'll pardon the pun - all too often at the moment I feel like my sound system got turned into a Soundblaster 8 on Windows 98, where only the last 8 sounds in EVE win and actually get played. I trust this is what you meant by the mixing errors... (I mean, hardware-accelerated mixing has been in DirectSound since Windows 2000, Wwise does plug into that, right?)
Originally by: Jonathan Mcarthur
I just turn off the sound, it creates too much lag!

I'm genuinely intrigued by this - whilst probably not feasible, I'd love to cross-match reports of lag due to sound with what hardware people are running, preferably with some real evidence that it's sound-related as lag is very hard to pin down.

In my experience, if you have a dedicated sound chip, the lag introduced by sound is (edit: was prior to sound updates, not done sufficient testing since Apocrypha to be sure any more) practically non-existent. Without more evidence and a wider statistical pool, it's hard to indicate that, for example, effort should be made to streamline the sound process because it causes lag (though of course I welcome any attempt made by CCP to do so anyway).

Saint VII
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.21 12:16:00 - [55]
 

Playing after the patch, I can confirm that you fixed all the map related bugs.

But turrets still aren't working well, and the sound occasionally drops out entirely when there are too many weapons trying to fire at the same time.

Yuko Anekohji
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
Posted - 2009.08.21 15:00:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Yuko Anekohji on 21/08/2009 17:18:00
Originally by: Saint VII
Playing after the patch, I can confirm that you fixed all the map related bugs.

But turrets still aren't working well, and the sound occasionally drops out entirely when there are too many weapons trying to fire at the same time.


I confirm this,

on another note, the shield hardeners sfx must be one of the most annoying sound i've heard in my whole life, why is it so damn loud?

Edited for typos

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2009.08.21 15:33:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 21/08/2009 15:33:47
Confirmed that I dislike the shield hardener effect so much I zoom way, way out of the fight. It'd be nice if the shield hardener effect required you to zoom way, way in, in order to hear it. There should be a range at which you can hear the guns and explosions but not hear the hardeners.

I have another comment.

The only thing I don't like about the weapon sounds is that they are far too repetitious. When other people are around the house watching TV or reading, having the exact same missile launcher sound every 1.5 seconds has got to be really annoying.

Is there any way you can make the weapons sound a little more organic? For example, instead of one sound for every turret, have different sounds that are either entirely random or depend on the viewing angle. Or, let the guns vary their rate of fire around an average ROF instead of being precisely timed.

Gekkoh
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.08.21 19:21:00 - [58]
 

Please allow us the option to disable special mission/event music. Late at night, when you're just chillin in space, the abrupt change is jarring. I tell the jukebox to stop, then play again to start up the mellowness again.

And yes, the in station Amarr chanting gets old after a bit. Being able to disable that would be nice as well.

Oh, and also, can you please look into the odd issue where you hear part of the missile launching sound after the launchers have been turned off when it would be time to launch the next missile. There is another odd issue where lasers sometimes play at full volume no matter the distance from the camera. It's not always, but if you do a sansha mission, you'll hear it eventually.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2009.08.21 21:03:00 - [59]
 

Weapon sound effects in Eve are pretty horrible. They haven't really changed since day one, either. If I were to make one humble request, it's that CCP watch some Star Trek and B5, and check how cool weapons firing sound in those shows. Pretty much any sci-fi with lazors and torpedoes does it better than Eve.

Play some Wing Commander, de-synch your guns, and listen to how badass they sound. Play some Homeworld, and listen to the report of a flak frigate. Play some Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, and listen to the siege laser. Current lasers sound like static, or boring zap-sounds that belong in crappy 50s era sci-fi.

Weapon effects in general lack a certain oomph.

schurem
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.08.21 21:27:00 - [60]
 

So ah.. we got a rough ETA on this maybe?


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