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Asuka Smith
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:58:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Nito Musashi
yes tons of info on there for sure. one thing mmos all have in common, if you can a 256 player game an "mmo" at all is simplified graphics to have all those people running around.

yawn how old are all your pcs that you think consoles are uber l33t over pcs? do you think ps3 or xbox 360 could handle a 400 on 400 eve fleet battle without imploding?

do you think all those next gen graphics for dust we saw in the video, they are going to have 256 players on the same map doing stuff? along with ships in the sky and tanks on the ground. i think that is fantasy less suddenly ps3 and xbox 360 have gotten a ton more ram to handle all that stuff, and better gpus than ps3s 7series nvidia chip and i forget what 4 year old gpu the xbox has under the hood.





PS3 is an amazing machine and if you modified the console to run windows XP or perhaps a version of Linux with WINE it would run fleet battles in exquisite detail. The Cel processor is more amazing than I can put into words.

That said PC is a much better platform and can scale with time which is exactly what is needed if you want your game to last longer than what would otherwise be the hardware obsolescence hardcap.

Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics
Posted - 2009.08.19 15:18:00 - [182]
 

The idea is quite good.
It hasn't been done before and might work very well. On the other hand having sov decided in this way means that the best way to keep sov is to keep expanding.
More sov means more moon goo and more moon goo means more isk to hire the mercs to expand and get more moon goo and hire more mercs to expand even more to etc etc etc.

So while the idea is nice I'd really like to know what limits the really really wealthy alliances from hiring everyone which would kill both games.

Candy King
Gallente
CandyLand
Posted - 2009.08.19 15:33:00 - [183]
 

Dear CCP, if/when this goes live.
Please make sure we can efficiently bombard planets from orbit with our dreads and bs's.

hugz
CK!

Sade Onyx
Posted - 2009.08.19 15:37:00 - [184]
 

knowing how long ccp are taking with walking in stations, and knowing the pattern of "secret development" to "announcing" Projects like this appear to take about 5 years. So I wouldnt expect anything for at least another two years.

Which will probably hit about the time ST:O is out..

hmm.

KardelSharpeye
Gallente
The Watchtower
Posted - 2009.08.19 15:38:00 - [185]
 

I wonder what happens to those marines when we warp thru a planet. They get.....

Fighter26
Orion's Fist
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:00:00 - [186]
 

CCP, for the love of God make it on the PC too. There is nothing wrong with ports but there is with leaving PCs out of the loop completely. Especially considering that you just forced all of us to upgrade our PCs!

Sandor Krejaa
Posted - 2009.08.19 20:54:00 - [187]
 

Edited by: Sandor Krejaa on 19/08/2009 20:55:01
Having Dust players be the sole means of controlling a planet is a WONDERFUL idea..if for no other reason it mirrors the reality of warfare.

For all the ships, and planes, and sattelites and such that exist today, what REALLY changes things are troops on the ground. A bunch of guys in a ship are NOT going to conquer a nation..the best they can hope to do is blevel it with naval artillery, but they certainly will not be occupying it. Same goes for the guys in the air..they can bomb all they want but they do not actually control much of anything. The division is natural. In Eve terms, planets are ignored right now, they do nothing at all for Sov, and it makes perfect sense that the HIGHEST levels of Sov should include controlling those planets.

The ONLY legit complaint I see so far is for Dust 514 ONLY being for consoles. I fear that because I fear that comment from the interview about console makers trying to make the game exclusive. If Dust 514 is console platform exclusive w/o PC support, its going to make a lot of people even MORE mad than they are now. Eve players are not the type that want to be railroaded into buying one console vs another esepecially if they already own the one being excluded.

I prefer to be able to have BOTH PS3 and 360 players..having just one or the other is stupid.



CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2009.08.19 20:57:00 - [188]
 

Moved to OOPE.

Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.08.19 21:23:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Asuka Smith
PS3 is an amazing machine and if you modified the console to run windows XP or perhaps a version of Linux with WINE it would run fleet battles in exquisite detail. The Cel processor is more amazing than I can put into words.


The main issue is the PS3 hardware architecture compared to conventional x86 design.
It's designed from the ground up to use deep-level multi-threading, it's individual chips are relatively slow, but powerful processors.

That's what makes designing for the PS3 a royal pain in the rear for most studios, it's completely incompatible with xbox360 and PC design, both of which are x86 based. You can't port a game, you need to basically re-write it to function properly on a PS3.

Add the fact that the GPU paradigm for the Xbox360 and PS3 is basically reversed, and it gets even worse. With the Xbox having relatively weak general processors coupled with a powerful GPU and the PS3 having a power-house array of general processors (the cells) and a relatively weak GPU that relies on the power of those cell chips to do the preliminary work.

A PS3 is a wonderful piece of hardware with a lot of potential, but making it practically alien in design compared to everything else certainly didn't help it. Add Sony being a ***** about the dev-kits and software, and you have yourself an underrated and generally under performing console.

Once deep multi-threading starts becoming more common on PC I can see the PS3 really take off, as the lessons learned on both sides are applied to both it and PC development. But I'm afraid the next console generation may be coming around by the time that happens.

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2009.08.19 21:24:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Moved to OOPE.

In honesty that makes no sense when this game is related to EVE and effects EVE as well.

just saying! anyhow nice surprise coming back from holiday to find this! another reason to buy PS 3

Nagatok
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.19 21:43:00 - [191]
 

i do hope CCP allows you to PICK a DUST group to hire otherwise the abuse could be massive...with groups accepting contracts only to lose on purpose

Nagatok
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.19 22:58:00 - [192]
 

oh and as for people bad mouthing the XBOX atleast you dont lag to hell on it like you do on the PS3 and anyone who says the PS3 doesnt lag is lieing out of their arse

Kythren
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.08.19 23:04:00 - [193]
 

sigh, i hoped people in dust would see the space like it is in eve, e.g. a titan orbiting the planet. or fleet battles in orbit which are just taking place in eve, probably trying to bring reinforcements. and at some point people in dust would just stop playing and look into the sky as a carrier or mothership starts to explode, due to being shot down in eve.
that would be so epic, but from what i heard in this interview this seems to be far off...

however in the end its all a question about how many people you can get to play this game, if its 1:1 eve:dust then such things would be awesome and much more likely to happen.
but well you can at least dream :]

lord orei
Blackened Skies
Imperial Directorate
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:54:00 - [194]
 

Just a wondering thought here,

I want to know if the DUST players will have the same risks that EVE players have. Will they lose their shiny new gun and armor when they get killed or will it be like other FPS games where they respawn a minute later with all of their stuff ready for battle?

One of the greatest things about EVE is the risk involved.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:07:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: lord orei
Just a wondering thought here,

I want to know if the DUST players will have the same risks that EVE players have. Will they lose their shiny new gun and armor when they get killed or will it be like other FPS games where they respawn a minute later with all of their stuff ready for battle?

One of the greatest things about EVE is the risk involved.
Which is why pumping isk into your merc corp makes sense. Without a contract a squad might only have access to the basic equipment but with adaquate funding they get access to bigger better stuff. So the basic stuff is probably infinite in supply whilst the high powered stuff is in limited supply so make it count. Or beg the ceo for moar isk if things are going badly.

silken mouth
Gallente
Core Genes Applied Technologies
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:16:00 - [196]
 

i find the whole D514 idea inconsistent when it comes to sov mechanics. d514 for control over planets and their resources, which should be considerable, ok, but sov, no.

with spaceships its going to be like this, if your party isnt winning, you just nuke it to hell and destroy all infrastructure. secondly, how will those d514 marines get to the planets? can we shoot their transports or will they magically appear there?

d514 to get a hell of stuff out of a planet, sure go for it!
d514 for sov? **** off!

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:28:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: silken mouth
secondly, how will those d514 marines get to the planets? can we shoot their transports or will they magically appear there?
Dust troops are a new type of jump clone so they magically appear on the planet they need to be at its plantetary jump clone bay or whatever is it you appear at. Equipment however is up for debate and might be one of the things an eve corp can help with.

Zila Shadow
Higgs-Dyson
Collegium Amarria
Posted - 2009.08.20 03:05:00 - [198]
 

The way I'd do it is that your fleet has to drop a base, jump clone bay, equipment, etc., and then you can set up the mission contract for the mercs to hop in the clones there.

Perhaps particularly dedicated mercs may be buying stuff and hiring people to ship to their intended mission sites, too, but since that's such a crapshoot relative to how FPSes normally work, I doubt it.

Nai Ling
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
Posted - 2009.08.20 04:13:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Nai Ling on 20/08/2009 04:14:11
I am going to reserve my judgement until more information is released, but this has many, many ringing bells going off in my head.

I understand how CCP would like to integrate a FPS Console game into EVE Online, but there have to be many things considered. Namely, EVE Online has to come first in ALL respects. DUST must not be allowed to be the only option to gaining sov. If it were to be a QUICKER option, then I could see it working.

I am also a bit upset about the game being released for consoles only. I am a PC player. I DO own an Xbox 360, but I usually only play things like Rock Band, or Fifa Soccer. I do not like playing FPS games on consoles at all. Give me a standard Ergonomic Keyboard, and a trackball mouse, and I will tear up the battlefield. But give me a console controller, and it'll be like watching a r-tard lick a frozen flagpole.

My secondary concern is the lifespan of most console games. A couple months, and a majority of the playerbase will move onto something new. Do you remember that "Too Human" game? It was hyped to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. When it was released, "everyone" was playing it. And then 3 weeks later, everyone was asking: "What's next?" The fun in the game was gone.

Third concern... How are you going to manage updates with Xbox360 and PS3? My Xbox harddrive is 85% full with Rockband songs... are you telling me that I'm going to have to delete my "Boston" album in order to update the game? And we all know Microsoft doesn't do much of anything for free. There will be pricing schemes added along with the $50/yr Xbox Live Gold subscription.

Too many questions... too late at night...
/sigh
More info is needed CCP. I don't like hanging my character's/corporation's/alliance's hard work on some pre-pubescent 8 y/o Halo fan who would rather Rambo on his own rather than playing a strategic battle to win. If I wanted to see that, I would go to Jita/Amarr and watch/listen to Privateers.

SqualZell Madman
Caldari
Dead Void
Posted - 2009.08.20 05:51:00 - [200]
 

Edited by: SqualZell Madman on 20/08/2009 05:59:50
Originally by: Nito Musashi
eve online we are pod pilots we are demi gods of the universe, common people look on us with awe, fear, loathing, and envy. Our corporations shape the face of low sec and null sec space, and help shape the face of empire space. We plan the wars, be they trade wars, wars for territory, or wars just for what the hades.

dust 514 these are our foot soldiers, they fight in the dirt and with guns, where pod pilots clones would do us little good. We pay them they buy guns and drop ships and tanks and land bases. We pod pilots respect them for what they do, at lest when they do it well. They follow our orders, they take land and planets for us, while we hold the skies and space above, offering them some protection to carry out our orders on the ground.

We are nothing without each other, yes our loyalties and theirs are fickle to say the lest, but when we form a contract they carry it out as long as we do our jobs they do theirs.

two seperate battlefields intertwined deciding the fate of the universe. with massive amounts of wealth and power in the balance.

i dunno sounds pretty kick ass to me, and does sound like two entirely different games. our pods do not protect us out of ship, other than in one eve novel that is accepted cannon. we die out of our pods we die for good. we cannot train on a single account 2 characters at a time, if this were part of the main game and we could do alts and train them while training our pod mains, not so bad. but thats not the way eve works atm. if the system we had now and we had to have moar alt account to maintain alts for dust war, isnt this game already meta multi account overbard as it already is?

[cut]


completely agree

i do not own a console, and i really dont plan on buying one. AND i think its a great idea to mix the 2 communities. what i do have problems with is the fact that the 2 types of gameplay differ greately. one is time investment the other is simply shoot for 1-2 hours then go to supper. Also the 8 year old kiddies who dont give a crap weather they win or loose, they just want to play. i am unconfortable giving people contracts to accept if they will simply bail out and not care of the oucome.

concept is great! but there needs to be more linkage between the two other than contracts. common chat, corp recruitment, partnership, what is in it for them other than iskies,

i love the idea to command troops into battle, but at least give us some safety measures? what is stopping a group of people taking contracts and purposely failing them?
fun edit: though i can add a bit more to the scenarios.
mercenaries get to the planet (jumpclone or wtv)with basic equipment, and the corp/alliance has to suply them with that they need. vehicles ships weapons defense grids. say your 10 vehicles got destroyed you need to contact your contractor to tell them that you are out of vehicles. he can answer that there is nothing we can do up here for the moment, since up there they are being attacked. and/or they can say that the transport will be comming in shortly with more vehicles and guns. when the transport arrives (at the control tower) it can send the vehicles down to the planet and made available to the Dust marines

Devil Puppet
Posted - 2009.08.20 15:39:00 - [201]
 

You guys are all talking like this will actually happen right away. We've been waiting for ambulation since 2003... just put that into perspective.

Chardon Driftwood
ZeroMega
Posted - 2009.08.20 15:41:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Candy King
Dear CCP, if/when this goes live.
Please make sure we can efficiently bombard planets from orbit with our dreads and bs's.

hugz
CK!


You forgot to say "Amen"

Psiri
Posted - 2009.08.20 16:05:00 - [203]
 

Will it support mouse and keyboard input? This is a huge make or break thing for PC FPS gamers who'd be interested in picking up a console to play the game.

I honestly don't understand why so many console games still today insist on only supporting gamepad inputs. Mouse and keyboard not only allows for another means of communication aside from voice chat but is vastly superior for gameplay aswell. Support both interfaces for those who prefer to play the game comfortably with a gamepad in their couch, that way you get the best of both worlds.

Laina Delapore
Caldari
Shadowed Command
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2009.08.20 16:05:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Candy King
Dear CCP, if/when this goes live.
Please make sure we can efficiently bombard planets from orbit with our dreads and bs's.

hugz
CK!


/signed.

DRMALIKIA
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.08.20 20:30:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: DRMALIKIA on 20/08/2009 20:40:50
MAYBE I MISSED THIS COMMENT, MAYBE I DID NOT.

What happens when the next new FPS title comes out and the "Dust Player Base" is drastically reduced because of the Band Wagon effect? What happens to the sov mechanics then?

I am unsure of hard figures here but let's toss around some numbers:

2000 EVE systems with 10 planets in each system
20,000 planets total
Console Battles consist of 64-128 people per fight on a planet
That is a minimum total of players equaling 1.28MIL players needed divided evenly across the EVE universe

Now I highly doubt this being a new game it will support numbers like Halo 3's 1 million unique players per day logging online. If CCP half asses this out the door, and only 50,000-250,000 players play this game, you can kiss your sov good bye, lol.

BAD IDEA

Emnity Preston
Caldari
Norfolk and Good Aquisitions
Posted - 2009.08.21 08:34:00 - [206]
 

Currently I think there is a lot of context missing in regards to this release.

Initially, ccp are a games company. They have been developing a console game and in their view of the sucess of the eve online galaxy they decide to base it upon that genre. I dont think anyone can blame them on that.

Then they decided that one element of the eve online universe was due for an overhaul (ie Sov mechanics), so decided to make the games inter-related (nb that doesnt mean inter-dependant). Everyone I have seen posting in all these threads are referring to the soon to be DUST players as second class citizens, setting up shop and ruining their game. Again, lets throw in a tea-spoon of perspective.. Up until this release, the eve online universe had absolutely nothing to do with planets, nothing, zilch, nada. Therefore nothing is being taken away from the eve universe at all. Plus I'm pretty sure this wont be thecomplete lynchpin of Sov.

People are also concerned that 'their game' is going to get taken over by 14 year old pimple faced idiots.. Not being funny but have you seen some of the local chat flying around eve? They are there already, in every MMO infact. No doubt they will make a show in dust also, but like every other mmo dust is going to have its own organisation systems. Therefore you can in essence set your own recruitment criteria and like every other mmo before it your elitest organisations will rise from the rabble and establish themselves as 'the ones to pay for'. Any single strategi FPS that has a clan systyem has these controls, just like an MMO, plus this is an RPSMMOFPS (phew). So people need to bless their cotton socks and take a tea-spoon of this perspective thing and relax.

There are claims that it will influence sov.. thats influence, not determine.. and lets be fair the sov system at present is a massive time drain, why not spice it up a little. until we see the whole overhaul we cant really whine about 1 factor can we. The other side of the comments are that only the biggest space holding alliances are going to be able to hafford the bestest mercenaries to hold their space or invade. Let's once again focus on the eve universe as it stands now.. only the big power blocks can afford to maintain and replace massive cap fleets.. produce and field titans.. or even constant BS fleets.. so what change is DUST bringing to the power balance side of the game? none..

With regards to worries about it becoming redundant.. I think that the fact the DUST players will eventually be able to feel part of a bigger picture may enhance the game. Also the XBOX 360 and PS3 have both declared it will be a long time if ever, that they bring out another console, instead being able to purely upgrade the current systems.. I think DUST may be with us for a while. It also gives the interested eve player another level of immersion should they wish.

This is another level of immersion in an already brilliant setting..There is no way CCP are going to commit corporate suicide by making the games too inter-dependant.. but to be honest, having a multiplatform, multigame inter-related system.. isn't that just massively epic? So what if you don't want to buy a console and take part.. isnt just knowing that that stuff is actually going on ingame elevating the game universe that little bit higher?

I think there are fun times ahead, I may or may not play DUST.. but it will certainly enhance my gaming experience with its existence.

Things that would be nice, are some benefits to playing both games with regards to subscription, maybe even the option to use plexes. Also for communication between games down the line.. Ambulation maybe..

Nai Ling
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
Posted - 2009.08.21 15:26:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Emnity Preston
This is another level of immersion in an already brilliant setting..There is no way CCP are going to commit corporate suicide by making the games too inter-dependant.. but to be honest, having a multiplatform, multigame inter-related system.. isn't that just massively epic? So what if you don't want to buy a console and take part.. isnt just knowing that that stuff is actually going on ingame elevating the game universe that little bit higher?


Honestly, I'm not worried about whether or not CCP will commit "corporate suicide" by making games too interdependant. My worry is that Sovereignty becomes too dependant on DUST, and when the new flavor of the month comes out on consoles, part of the game is no longer functionable because nobody plays it anymore. Console games are notorious for their fair weather players.

Lussac Trigalle
Posted - 2009.08.21 16:54:00 - [208]
 

I know some people will disagree with me but personally I think CCP have done a pretty good job with EVE since I first played in 2003, I have had a few sabbaticals but every time I have returned the game has got better & so much more complex. I remember the 10k players online milestone & we were all amazed :)

The one thing that seems clear to me is that CCP do care about their game, they also care enough about the players to involve them far more than any other game maker out there - fanfest, the player council, massive forums, ISD etc... etc... sure they make mistakes sometimes - who doesn't?

WOW players still have to choose which server they are going to play on & 2nd Life has no purpose other than advertising. CCP is unique in its original vision & continuing dedication to EVE.

The idea for DUST is typically ambitious, and the current details too light to really be able to make any judgement on how it will turn out, but EVE-online has always grown by increments.

My own feeling is that the console decision is a way to introduce thousands of new players to the universe of Eve. In addition the FPS planet concept is a stepping stone on CCP's continued path to the world's most complex, comprehensive and immersive virtual universe in existence. The possibilities for the future are legion & very exciting

As for all the premature complaints - some responses...

The servers are hardware agnostic - it doesn't matter if the data is coming from a PS3, XBox, pc, or mobile phone.

All my gaming friends are around my age (40+) and all have a PC (or more) and either a PS3, Xb360 or both.

The hardware in the current consoles has not been fully utilised by any existing game yet - perhaps GT-5 might come close (if it is ever released!) but from history more likely GT6 in 10 years time :p

Releasing DUST for the console in no way prevents it from being released for the PC or incorporated into EVE at some future date (perhaps once the fickle consolers have moved on)

Like EVE the initial idea for DUST is just that, it will change over time, become more complex and all players in the EVE universe will have the opportunity to express their delight or despair about the announced direction.

I can't count the ragequits that have been expressed at modifications to the game in the past and yet the player base has just continued to grow.

I am happy to wait and see but if anyone can pull off an epic idea that no one else has achieved I think CCP are currently the most likely candidates to make it succeed.

Message ends....

Nagatok
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.21 21:58:00 - [209]
 

at this point i'd like to point out that they have been working on D514 for 3 years already as is said in the interview. now i'm no games designer but thats a fair amount of time. maybe its closer than you all think.

Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2009.08.22 03:30:00 - [210]
 

I'm wondering if Ambulation has already been code fixed and ready, they're just wanting to bring it out at the same time as Dust.

Although the video looks great, there's really no telling WHEN either ambulation or dust will finally hit the server/shelves so although I would very much like to be in the ranks of the mercenaries as well as a pod pilot, I'm going to have to buy a TV, (a tv licence!) and an xbox and a live connection too (PS3's aren't for me sorry), that and I'm not going to get anything like that until I know exactly what Dust is all about and that I've got a room to fit all that stuff in comfortably.


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