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killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.16 07:22:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: killerbitsch on 16/08/2009 08:03:03
the subsys interdiction nullifier is not at all such an almighty sub as the info says. once the warp is initiated, any bubbles getting activated before you jump off will disrupt your warpdrive, and switch it off, you can reactivate it, but a new bubble will disrupt it again. so any new bubbles in reach will make you stay a bit longer, which is enough to lose your t3.

this thread could be placed in 2 categories on this forum:

warfare and tactics: how to catch an interdiction nullifier t3 cruiser

this thread: why not to trust a line like "Immunity to non-targeted interdiction"...

be wise, and learn from my case... immunity is not immunity, or at least not as much...

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.08.16 07:33:00 - [2]
 

k.

I think I understand what you are saying.. but it makes no sense.

You are saying that activating a bubble makes a i-null'd ship lose its warp?

a WDFG has a 30 sec timer, so your looking at about 15 of these to relyably stop a t3 ship forever.
None the less, they are cloaked - if know what your doing, youll still miss him, because he just.. moves away.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.08.16 07:39:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: TimMc on 16/08/2009 07:39:02
Originally by: Lance Fighter
k.

I think I understand what you are saying.. but it makes no sense.

You are saying that activating a bubble makes a i-null'd ship lose its warp?

a WDFG has a 30 sec timer, so your looking at about 15 of these to relyably stop a t3 ship forever.
None the less, they are cloaked - if know what your doing, youll still miss him, because he just.. moves away.


Yes but without the cloak subsystem you will stop warp activation and have to reengage it. Not ideal at a gatecamp. Is this a bug?

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.16 07:48:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: killerbitsch on 16/08/2009 08:03:48
also with the cloak subsystem it is deadly. 1 got the first ceptor on my back with only the 2nd bubble up... from decloak, not much time needed.

so switching up bubbles at a certain frequency stops a t3 for enough time to get it stay for ever by the ceptors... i have never seen any bubble camps without some ceptors.

anyway... i don't think it's a bug, i think it was meant to work like this, but wasn't that well advertised.

though i'd be glad to know it's a bug, because then my case was the result of an exploit, and may have my mighty ***** reimbursed. :)

hobo deluxe
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2009.08.16 10:35:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: killerbitsch
though i'd be glad to know it's a bug, because then my case was the result of an exploit, and may have my mighty ***** reimbursed. :)


Our logs show nothing , so we wont be able to reimburse your ship.

sorry for the inconvenience.


Just saying now what you are gona hear if you ask reimbursement Laughing

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.08.16 10:56:00 - [6]
 

Damn, that is kind of ****ty.

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.16 11:09:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: hobo deluxe
Originally by: killerbitsch
though i'd be glad to know it's a bug, because then my case was the result of an exploit, and may have my mighty ***** reimbursed. :)


Our logs show nothing , so we wont be able to reimburse your ship.

sorry for the inconvenience.


Just saying now what you are gona hear if you ask reimbursement Laughing



well yea. i never petition jetcan anti-covops tactics for the same reason. :)

and the thread is in this category so that people will know, that immune doesn't really mean immune, and there's a way to catch the ships like that. keep it in mind when flying one!

Iishta
Caldari
C0VEN
Posted - 2009.08.16 22:20:00 - [8]
 

... refitting dictors to 3 buble setups. :-D

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.08.16 23:04:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/08/2009 23:04:37
Originally by: Lance Fighter

a WDFG has a 30 sec timer, so your looking at about 15 of these to relyably stop a t3 ship forever.
None the less, they are cloaked - if know what your doing, youll still miss him, because he just.. moves away.


1) wait for t3 to drop gatecloak and warp/cloak (your scout told you he was coming)
2) activate bubble and have ceptor burn for him (assigned drones are your friend)
3) shoot
4) profit

Only needs one bubble if you know how to run a gatecamp.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.08.16 23:12:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/08/2009 23:04:37
Originally by: Lance Fighter

a WDFG has a 30 sec timer, so your looking at about 15 of these to relyably stop a t3 ship forever.
None the less, they are cloaked - if know what your doing, youll still miss him, because he just.. moves away.


1) wait for t3 to drop gatecloak and warp/cloak (your scout told you he was coming)
2) activate bubble and have ceptor burn for him (assigned drones are your friend)
3) shoot
4) profit

Only needs one bubble if you know how to run a gatecamp.

catching cloaked ships, with or without bubbles, requires people both on the ball, and with skills. Your general guy in a ceptor isnt gonna catch a cloaked ship even with a bubble.

Even then, its not that relyable - I personally would feel confident given a t3 ship with the cloak/nullifier, even if there are two or 3 ceptors there.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.08.16 23:29:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Lance Fighter

catching cloaked ships, with or without bubbles, requires people both on the ball, and with skills. Your general guy in a ceptor isnt gonna catch a cloaked ship even with a bubble.



Doesnt really require any skill, all you do is hit approach + mwd once, and be quick with setting full speed again.

Doesnt even need to be a ceptor, a t1 frig can do it as well.

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.17 05:37:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lance Fighter

Even then, its not that relyable - I personally would feel confident given a t3 ship with the cloak/nullifier, even if there are two or 3 ceptors there.


and you would pop miserably in your confidence. 1 good ceptor pilot is more than enough. my opinion is that you've never seen a camp so far...

Omara is right that even 1 bubble can do the trick if the ceptor pilot(s) is (are) a little bit experienced in bubble camping, since we're talking of a cruiser sized ship, which alignes quite slowish. 2-3 bubbles will make it impossible to get through even with a bit tired or inexperienced campers. align time for a ship like proteus is about 5-7 sec depending on sub/fit/skills, before getting cloaked you will show yourself for a little bit of time, that is more than enough for a ceptor to get aligned to, and if a bubble disrupts your warpdrive, the campers gain 1-2 extra seconds of you staying, even if you are aware of your warp drive switching off... we are now talking about almost 10 seconds for the ceptor(s) to reach your vicinity, and with small drones orbiting it/them, it/they have to get only within 3-4km... with a t3 cruiser trying to warp out, you never travel that much within the given time, while avg ceptor travels approx 40-50 kms during that, and of course you won't be seeing any ceptor that far in any gatecamps, so fail is a definate must.

anyway. a good ceptor pilot has some chance to get you even if there's no bubble, because of the align time. i had quite a few cases when i just warped out in the very second i got decloaked by a ceptor.

Baron Aethon
Coffee Sipper's Club
Posted - 2009.08.17 05:45:00 - [13]
 

Do not be dumb people. If you do not know how to get around this bug then you have no business in a T3.

Steps to avoid getting caught in T3:
1. Jump through gate
2. See Gate Camp
3. Hi the align button on the gate you wish to warp to next.
4. Hit the cloak button
5. watch dumb ass campers drop a bubble
6. hit warp button and laugh in local.
7. Be grateful you are not dumb

Glad I could help

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.08.17 06:08:00 - [14]
 

There more than one way to escape a gatecamp... You dont HAVE to warp out.

If you dont think you can make it out by warping, you might be able to make it back to the gate (cloak+mwd certainly helps here)

Or, you could hope they dont have enough bubble range to cover you, had this happen once or twice with the bigger gates

Deathhawk
Hammersmith Hardmen
Posted - 2009.08.17 08:01:00 - [15]
 

since when has a t3 with the nullifier not been able to warp out of a bubble? they are immune to them...

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.17 08:23:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Baron Aethon
Do not be dumb people. If you do not know how to get around this bug then you have no business in a T3.

Steps to avoid getting caught in T3:
1. Jump through gate
2. See Gate Camp
3. Hi the align button on the gate you wish to warp to next.
4. Hit the cloak button
5. watch dumb ass campers drop a bubble
6. hit warp button and laugh in local.
7. Be grateful you are not dumb

Glad I could help


6.5 be surprised to get a second bubble (that was exactly that happened to me), that's why i didn't laugh but congrat them in local. they new this bug (or feature?) which i never heard of and used it against me.

"If you do not know how to get around this bug then"

if you happen to know about this bug already (for what this thread was created) you're right. and if you are right, and it is a bug, then any kills using this method is an exploit, isn't it? :)

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.17 08:28:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Deathhawk
since when has a t3 with the nullifier not been able to warp out of a bubble? they are immune to them...


it is able to warp out of an already working bubble, but if the bubble is set online in between the time you hit warp button and the time you actually warp off, the warpdrive switches off.

and yes, you can live with this bug, if you know about it. just use align to, and when speed and direction is OK, click warp (little chance of a new bubble rising those fractions of a second), but never think of immunity as it could be taken.

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.17 08:30:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lance Fighter
There more than one way to escape a gatecamp... You dont HAVE to warp out.

If you dont think you can make it out by warping, you might be able to make it back to the gate (cloak+mwd certainly helps here)

Or, you could hope they dont have enough bubble range to cover you, had this happen once or twice with the bigger gates


you are right, that's the right option (head back to gate), if you have some buffer, you may also want the campers shoot at you a bit, so you can lose them by jumping through.

Baron Aethon
Coffee Sipper's Club
Posted - 2009.08.17 08:38:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: killerbitsch
Originally by: Baron Aethon
Do not be dumb people. If you do not know how to get around this bug then you have no business in a T3.

Steps to avoid getting caught in T3:
1. Jump through gate
2. See Gate Camp
3. Hi the align button on the gate you wish to warp to next.
4. Hit the cloak button
5. watch dumb ass campers drop a bubble
6. hit warp button and laugh in local.
7. Be grateful you are not dumb

Glad I could help


6.5 be surprised to get a second bubble (that was exactly that happened to me), that's why i didn't laugh but congrat them in local. they new this bug (or feature?) which i never heard of and used it against me.

"If you do not know how to get around this bug then"

if you happen to know about this bug already (for what this thread was created) you're right. and if you are right, and it is a bug, then any kills using this method is an exploit, isn't it? :)


You must be very bad at this game. If you are aligned and at max speed you will warp as soon as you hit the warp button. If you are not flying a covert ops offensive sub with your interdiction nullifier, then you are even worse at this game I fear you are.

Baring a very very fast, skilled and extremely lucky interceptor, nothing is going to catch you in the 5.2 seconds it takes to warp with the covert/interdiction combo.

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.17 08:43:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Baron Aethon

You must be very bad at this game. If you are aligned and at max speed you will warp as soon as you hit the warp button. If you are not flying a covert ops offensive sub with your interdiction nullifier, then you are even worse at this game I fear you are.

Baring a very very fast, skilled and extremely lucky interceptor, nothing is going to catch you in the 5.2 seconds it takes to warp with the covert/interdiction combo.


probably i am the worst of all, but still... i haven't seen you sharing the information of an onlining bubble disrupting the "immune" stuff, and after i learned my lesson i know what to do next time (don't be self confident with an immune sub).

otherwise you are rite. once you have the info, you know what to do with it.

i swore to myself to keep against the trolls... :D

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.08.17 09:34:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: killerbitsch
Originally by: Baron Aethon
Steps to avoid getting caught in T3:
1. Jump through gate
2. See Gate Camp
3. Hi the align button on the gate you wish to warp to next.
4. Hit the cloak button
5. watch dumb ass campers drop a bubble
6. hit warp button and laugh in local.
7. Be grateful you are not dumb

6.5 be surprised to get a second bubble (that was exactly that happened to me), that's why i didn't laugh but congrat them in local.

Except that if you have the covops cloak and wait until you ARE aligned, you'd enter warp instantly, and there would be no "step 6.5".

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.08.17 10:35:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: killerbitsch
Originally by: Baron Aethon
Steps to avoid getting caught in T3:
1. Jump through gate
2. See Gate Camp
3. Hi the align button on the gate you wish to warp to next.
4. Hit the cloak button
5. watch dumb ass campers drop a bubble
6. hit warp button and laugh in local.
7. Be grateful you are not dumb

6.5 be surprised to get a second bubble (that was exactly that happened to me), that's why i didn't laugh but congrat them in local.

Except that if you have the covops cloak and wait until you ARE aligned, you'd enter warp instantly, and there would be no "step 6.5".



This, pretty much.

This bug has been known for a long time now, it's been discussed and reported on forums since.. well probably t3 came out. I can't even recall, it's many months ago.

We can only guess why it's happening, but probably it's programmed the way that the nullifier does a check vs bubbles before initiating warp. If you drop a new bubble after that check it has to do the check again. If this was easy to sort programming wise, I'm pretty sure CCP would've done this. I'd bet this is one of the bugs that is listed to be fixed 'one day'. Probably not high prio since it's not game breaking, more annoying.

Either case, the easy solution is the cloak/align and then hit warp when fully aligned.

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.08.17 11:59:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Misanth

This bug has been known for a long time now, it's been discussed and reported on forums since.. well probably t3 came out. I can't even recall, it's many months ago.

...

Either case, the easy solution is the cloak/align and then hit warp when fully aligned.


hmmm... i missed that thread (i'm not a forum-addict, but still a frequent flyer), and the info was new for me. anyway. in case the first post had said the same as you now, the thread would have got much shorter.

and more to the point.

thanks for the info!


 

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