Posted - 2009.08.14 17:38:00 - [3]

 

Originally by: Darkdood

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I can hear the screaming now... Waaahaaa Waaahhaaa you suck blah blah.... but I'm still right....:)

#1 - The primary purpose of the Orca is a Mining/Industrial command ship. So to that end I say nerf its cargo bay and give it a MUCH larger ore bay. We have plenty of other ships that can haul crap around.

Might also want to change that 5% cargo space bonus to something more useful. I honestly have no idea what though.

IE - Reduce cargo hold from 30k to 10k. Raise the Ore hold to 250k.

#2 - Give the Orca a 4th high slot. Its role bonus's allow for 3 gang links and huge bonus's to tractor beam yet it can't use all 4 at the same time. Seems a bit silly to me to make a ship that can't do what its built to do.

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want huge place to store your mining stuff ? buy a rorqual.

Posted - 2009.08.14 18:51:00 - [5]

 

Carrier spawn? No I don't live in 0.0 so I'm not sure what you mean. I would try to argue the merits but I have no information to base the argument on sense you didn't tell me wtf you are talking about.

... After asking some friends I get what your talking about. Rat Harvesters... I've killed a few of those with smaller amounts of minerals. What did you do before Orca's?

Let me put this another way. Dozens of people rat in 0.0 and actually bother to loot the minerals etc etc. Thousands of people mine in all different security space in Orca's.

Although you are correct. The devs should weigh that fact when they try to rebalance.

fab24 - Ummm you obviously have not mined much. While I do admit the changes with this patch to the Rorqual make it a much better ship. I should remind you that it can't go into highsec at all. One of the major points of the Orca was to give people in highsec a Rorqual type ship.


Look its a COMMAND SHIP. For MINING OPERATIONS. Its not an Iteron mark 6. That is what Obelisks are for. The 40k corp hangar alone gives it more cargo capacity than any industrial(T1 rigged ity 5 is 38k).

I'm really trying not to be snippy but fact is I mine ALLOT. Getting ore out of the roid is easy with hulks. The logistics of getting it back to station is a huge hassle. A change like this would go a long way to improving the performance of a ship that was clearly designed to solve these problems.

Posted - 2009.08.14 19:50:00 - [7]

 

Edited by: fab24 on 14/08/2009 19:54:09
orca is not meant to be as good as rorqual, if you boost orca to have the ore capacity of the rorqual, people will only use orca and rorqual will be useless, that one reason as there are much other.

Posted - 2009.08.14 22:06:00 - [9]

 

Cargo rigged orca is 89k at lvl 4 skill. Plus 40k corp hangar. Plus 50k ore hold.
179k of ore max. You can go higher but this is for the average character.

Cargo rigged Rorqual is 126k. 30k corp hangar. 250k ore hold.
406k max.

Remember though that the Roqual is in lowsec or 0.0 so that is expanders in lows and cargo rigs so you're a big fat target. Practicality dictates that most quals won't be setup that way. So you could lose the 86k extra from the regular cargo area. Which drops you down to 320k.

Just to make sure I get the math right I use the Naglfar (10,250) in EFT and with 2 expanders and 3 cargo rigs it gets 25k cargo space. That is without the 5% ship bonus. Which still gives you 60k+ of regular space. Far beyond any other industrial.

However with that + say a 200k ore hold your total is 25+40+200=265.

Its just an opinion but I believe the Orca should be every bit as good as the Rorqual(space wise at least). The qual costs allot more but you get quite a few things out of it that the orca flat out can't do. As pointed out above.

The problem here is not that the Orca is as good better or worse than a qual. The problem is people want to use the Orca as a Iteron Mark 10 to be the end all solution for hauling and logistics for non ore items. Maybe I'm in the minority but I'd rather see it be a better mining ship and less of a 18 wheeler.

Frankly it would be fine with me if they droped cargo down to 5k, corp hanger down to 10k and just put a 500k+ ore hold on it. Sense it can't compress ore that gives it far less total capacity than a qual.

Posted - 2009.08.14 23:24:00 - [11]

 

Not Supported.

As you stated, the Orca is a Command Ship, not an Industrial Transport. The changes you suggest only, as previously stated, weaken the role of the Rorqual. Leave to Orca as it is and rely on other methods to transport the raw Ore.

Posted - 2009.08.15 05:57:00 - [13]

 

Is it not only about what "you" want?
You seem pretty selfish.

The Orca is fine as it is. No change need, or wanted by most me thinks.

Posted - 2009.08.15 11:03:00 - [15]

 

Originally by: Darkdood

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Remember though that the Roqual is in lowsec or 0.0 so that is expanders in lows and cargo rigs so you're a big fat target. Practicality dictates that most quals won't be setup that way. So you could lose the 86k extra from the regular cargo area. Which drops you down to 320k.

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Rorqual is shield tanking vessel so few Cargo modules will not reduce it tank really hard...

Posted - 2009.08.15 12:16:00 - [17]

 

Originally by: steave435

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Quote:

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Look its a COMMAND SHIP. For MINING OPERATIONS.

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Nerf its cargo and remove the ore bay then. Command ships are supposed to give bonuses, not haul, it shouldn't be a iteron mk 10 for miners either.

Happy?

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yes this

Posted - 2009.08.15 16:35:00 - [19]

 

Originally by: Darkdood

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#1 - The primary purpose of the Orca is a Mining/Industrial command ship. So to that end I say nerf its cargo bay and give it a MUCH larger ore bay. We have plenty of other ships that can haul crap around.

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Do this and it will make macro mining a little too easy.

Originally by: Darkdood

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Might also want to change that 5% cargo space bonus to something more useful. I honestly have no idea what though.

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No, The orca is the little sister ship of the rorqual. thus it should not have that good of bonuses to mining.

Originally by: Darkdood

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IE - Reduce cargo hold from 30k to 10k. Raise the Ore hold to 250k.

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250k is a bit much for the little sister. I would have to agree to 150. but with the current cargohold you can fit ~140 ish in it with the corp hanger.

Originally by: Darkdood

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#2 - Give the Orca a 4th high slot. Its role bonus's allow for 3 gang links and huge bonus's to tractor beam yet it can't use all 4 at the same time. Seems a bit silly to me to make a ship that can't do what its built to do.

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I would have to agree to this tho. some how, this little miss hap fell through the QA department. then again who uses the less cap bonus in empire? I guess this would fall under easy macro mining.

Posted - 2009.08.16 10:26:00 - [21]

 

Edited by: Kleranna on 16/08/2009 10:27:19
I never understood why Rorquals aren't allowed to use gates and enter hi-sec that way. It's not as if they are real combat ships and JF are still larger etc, so the role of the jump freighters isn't threatened. orcas would be the smaller (hi-sec only) version and rorquals the larger, more expensive, all-sec version.

That wouldn't change anything for WH ops but it would avoid the often-cited irritations of ship swapping for getting ore to/from hi-sec.

Posted - 2009.08.16 10:35:00 - [23]

 

Originally by: Trimutius III

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Originally by: Kleranna

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That wouldn't change anything for WH ops but it would avoid the often-cited irritations of ship swapping for getting ore to/from hi-sec.

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To move ore to/from hi-sec u can use Freighter... Just T1 Freighter... They have enough space to carry a lot of ore if needed...

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I realize that ofc, but my point was that you don't run a mining op from a T1 freighter, so some sort of in-station cargo juggling and an additional ship is necessary. That's one thing people seem to moan about.

Posted - 2009.08.16 11:24:00 - [25]

 

You provide no clear logical argument, backed up by facts, as to why the cargohold is too big, only assertions backed up by I WANT. As it stands excluding the orca you have haulers and transports with a maximium capacity of 43.667m3 (iteron mark V with t2 cargo rigs) and then a large jump to freighters with around 800.000k+m3 (not counting in jump freighters here because they are a 4bil bil investment and jump capable). The orca serves as a nice fill inbetween those in both skills, speed and cost at between 120-145km3 carried (cargo+corp hangar). Besides it provides a nice platform for both wormhole adventurers and those in lowsec to setup shop with.

As to requesting the abilty to fit the 3rd link. As it is, only two of the links are useful, Mining Foreman Link - Harvester Capacitor Efficiency just isn't needed unless you a) don't know how to stagger your mining lasors or b) haven't trained any capacitor skills. You might make an argument that it should perhaps be changed to a more useful bonus but that's a discussion best saved for another thread. I find it likely that having 3 highslots so you have to fit either 2 links+tractor beam or 3 links is an intentional decision by ccp.

Posted - 2009.08.16 20:45:00 - [27]

 

Edited by: Cerui Tarshiel on 16/08/2009 20:45:27

Originally by: Trimutius III

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I see your problem, we come back to problem of minifreighters... They still doesn't exist... But say thanks that CCP at least introduced Orca... Before Orca gap was even bigger... Soon maybe we will have new haulers... But boosting Orca isn't good solving of problem...

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In the quiet words of virgin mary, please come again.

You are making absolutely no sense, especially as you quoted my post. Yes, I know the gap was bigger, no exactly a new player, and no, we don't need a bloody minifreighter, the orca does that job quite well enough. And where in the bloody hell did I ask for an orca boost? And solving what problem?

Posted - 2009.08.17 08:04:00 - [29]

 

Good thing you posted with your alt Darkdood, your suggestion about nerfing the orca cargohold quite frankly sucks and has very little clear reasoning for it

The only thing you mention that makes sense is a possible 4th high slot, I agree with the others and yourself that 250k ore bay would be NICE, but it does not fit the role of the Orca, that's what the Rorq is for.