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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.10.07 16:20:00 - [1]
 

http://www.knoni.co.uk/forum/files/EVE_War.jpg

That's CCP way of fixing things - hit the entire community with a nerf bat to fix a problem suffered by 10% of community

JoCool
Caldari
Posted - 2004.10.07 17:11:00 - [2]
 

Exploitable. Won't stop a good merc corp.

Cherico
Posted - 2004.10.07 17:30:00 - [3]
 

Read that carefully, either its bunk or someone does not have a grasp of the English language.

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.07 17:36:00 - [4]
 

I can see the thinking behinds this, but the scope for declaring war isnt broad enough.

There are too many opportunties to grief that can go unpunished, too many people who deserve a smacking that can hide with impunity.

Kitten Hearder
Caldari
Posted - 2004.10.07 17:37:00 - [5]
 

Couldn’t possibly be a bug. No, definitely not in a beta expansion. No, no, can’t be.Wink

Ronyo Dae'Loki
4S Corporation
Posted - 2004.10.07 17:38:00 - [6]
 

Ok now THAT is a stupid change.
Shocked

Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2004.10.07 17:38:00 - [7]
 

CCP's vision of what wars are for is very limited.

Wars could fix alot more then some corp killed another corps member. Wars should also be over property and isk.

Dexter Rast
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
Posted - 2004.10.07 18:06:00 - [8]
 

not good at all CCP, this is one of your most ridiculous ideas if it is ever implemented..

what about waging war on a possable financial threat, yes beleive it or not lots of corps like to get rid of the competition when it come to selling modules/ships on the market,
now unless manufacturing corp `a` doesnt shoot at manufacturing corp `b` then `b` would not be able to flex its military muscle in anyway to protect its interests..

mercs would no longer be of any use, and that is bad, untouchable corps would be free to roam empire and flood the market with underpriced modules abnd there would be nothing a competitive industrial corp could do about it,,

kill off the trade, infact why dont you just forget about using the market at all.

no wars = no new ships needed, or modulesShocked

T'keth
Posted - 2004.10.07 18:35:00 - [9]
 

Imagine if someone had said that to George Bush when he declared war on Iraq Shocked

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2004.10.07 18:46:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: DarkMatter on 07/10/2004 18:47:59
I think this would be a good feature.

If you are in a corp that has not damaged property of another corp, there is no way war should be declared upon you.

Now for the non-combat PvP: (Market, mining, etc)

As long as these corps are undercutting each others prices in Empire Space, there is no need for war, none of those corps have any say in those systems, they can make as little profit as they like. The Empires Control those systems, not corps and alliances.

If you don't like someone mining in "your" system, too ****ing bad, you don't own the system, the Empire does.

This will eliminate the alt greifer wars, where small corps are simply bullied by bored PvP'ers, or PvP'ers who can't hack it in 0.0. Good job CCP if this is a new feature.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.10.07 18:55:00 - [11]
 

1 possible solution:

create an alt, ask to join the corp you want to go to war with. Once inside, kill one of your real corp members, so now your real corp can declare war

Racknan
Posted - 2004.10.07 19:03:00 - [12]
 

Who said it was final?

The shiva client is in beta right now. Things can - and will - change.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.10.07 19:14:00 - [13]
 

ok, after thinking about it and the reasons behind such changes, I decide this isn't very good

The thing is, this change is aimed to stop "griefing", abusing newbies and such, right? But this won't stop real "griefers", they will find ways to keep abusing their targets. This mostly effects all the other people who are just trying to play the game normally.

I already found 1 way to bypass it.. newbie corps easily accept newbie players, who could be alts of the bad guys. And I'm pretty sure that real bad guys are smart enough to abuse this system to further harass players. So this feature does more harm to regular players than to really bad guys.

Athule Snanm
Amarr
Rien Ici
Posted - 2004.10.07 19:32:00 - [14]
 

This would be the ultimate in 'lowest-common-denominatorism' if this was actually implemented on TQ and is just a license to grief. Whilst alt wars need a good smackdown, this is just a free ticket to do whatever you want and get away with it if you stay in Empire (not an unusual thing for alts to do).

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.10.07 19:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Athule Snanm
This would be the ultimate in 'lowest-common-denominatorism' if this was actually implemented on TQ and is just a license to grief. Whilst alt wars need a good smackdown, this is just a free ticket to do whatever you want and get away with it if you stay in Empire (not an unusual thing for alts to do).




Maybe it's this Stella I've been drinking but how is this a lisence to grief?

Veneth
Posted - 2004.10.07 19:50:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Veneth on 07/10/2004 19:53:05
This is very interesting as it would change a lot to how people think.


Originally by: Dexter Rast
not good at all CCP, this is one of your most ridiculous ideas if it is ever implemented..

what about waging war on a possable financial threat, yes beleive it or not lots of corps like to get rid of the competition when it come to selling modules/ships on the market,
now unless manufacturing corp `a` doesnt shoot at manufacturing corp `b` then `b` would not be able to flex its military muscle in anyway to protect its interests..

mercs would no longer be of any use, and that is bad, untouchable corps would be free to roam empire and flood the market with underpriced modules abnd there would be nothing a competitive industrial corp could do about it,,

kill off the trade, infact why dont you just forget about using the market at all.

no wars = no new ships needed, or modulesShocked


While you may be right about that what you said doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Someone under cutting your prices isn't a reason to go to war. Just think about that for a second :)

Gotta rember as big as we get in eve we're still corporations not our own government bodies. we Can't just go around declaring war on anyone for any reason we see fit. Concord lets us fight for various reasons, I suppose CCP is just trying to make it a bit less chaotic

Athule Snanm
Amarr
Rien Ici
Posted - 2004.10.07 19:52:00 - [17]
 

Well Joshua, let's say I called you a scum sucking low life. Then I start going around shooting cargo cans until I get bored before putting a few hundred scammy escrow orders. Finally I come back and smack talk in local for a few hours. Seeing as I haven't actually blown up any ships I'm immune to any comeback at all and can proceed to mine omber for a few weeks in peace to rebuild a battleship for my main character to go pirating again after being shot down in 0.0 (of course these are two completely separate characters enjoying different aspects of the game and in no way related to each other Rolling Eyes).

Right now only alts get the joy of griefish (I mean that in the mild sense, not the I'm going to petition you sense) actions with no consequences. Consensual-only wars will mean everyone can get in on the fun.

Number SixtyNine
Caldari
Posted - 2004.10.07 20:06:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Number SixtyNine on 07/10/2004 20:09:23

"Seeing as I haven't actually blown up any ships I'm immune to any comeback at all (..)"

Might be even funnier, depending what the wording in the requester exactly means.

If "killed any of you corporations members" refers to literal podkilling, then a griefer can go as far as to destroy people's ships with no fear... oh well. Guess we'll see. :s

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.10.07 20:14:00 - [19]
 

Ohhh, thank you Athule, I see what you mean now.

DREAMWORKS
Gallente
Gangbang-Gang
GUARDS 0F AVALON
Posted - 2004.10.07 21:38:00 - [20]
 

Plant a alt in the corporation, let it kill your other alt who is in your own corporation. Declare war.

This however does not make sense, war should be for everyone to declare to everyone. RP wise and i cannot see a reason why a person could not declare war for a diffrence of opinion or to kill competition in the region who sells items... Or declare war because the guy robbed your hangar empty to form up a new corp with your assets.

Frank Horrigan
Vault 35
Posted - 2004.10.07 21:44:00 - [21]
 

what if 2 empire corps are fighting over mining rights to a group of systems? eh? eh?!?? your leaving out all the poor mining people youve been caring to for the last year!

Athule Snanm
Amarr
Rien Ici
Posted - 2004.10.07 21:55:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: DREAMWORKS
Plant a alt in the corporation, let it kill your other alt who is in your own corporation. Declare war.


If (please god no) it does get implemented, and if someone actually does that I hope it gets treated by the GMs as the exploit it clearly would be.

Sheriff Justice
Rage Quit.
Posted - 2004.10.07 22:47:00 - [23]
 

Rolling Eyes Who knows how ideas like this even make it to coding.

SJ

Viqer Fell
Minmatar
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2004.10.07 23:13:00 - [24]
 

Perhaps the most pathetic out of a long list of pathetic ideas i've seen floated about. I pray to god this doesnt come into being as its ramnifications on empire based fighting are scarily bad

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2004.10.08 02:48:00 - [25]
 

Rolling Eyes
Quote:
what if 2 empire corps are fighting over mining rights to a group of systems? eh? eh?!?? your leaving out all the poor mining people youve been caring to for the last year!



If you're mining in Empire, you do not have mining rights, you are free to mine wherever & whenever you want, and no one but the Empire is allowed to say otherwise...

Very simple, I don't see how you can declare war over something that is not yours in the first placeRolling Eyes

Torvus Jay
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.08 02:57:00 - [26]
 

Quote:

If you're mining in Empire, you do not have mining rights, you are free to mine wherever & whenever you want, and no one but the Empire is allowed to say otherwise...

Very simple, I don't see how you can declare war over something that is not yours in the first place



In EVE your rights have always come from the barrel of a cannon. Whoever you are where ever you are.

Its easy to see really its been this way since the game was released. This was a core aspect of the game being able to dec who ever you want for any reason i refer you to the FAQ.

Quote:
6.5 Are wars possible between corporations?

Most definitely. One of the main purposes of corporations is to allow formal wars to be fought over resources, trade routes, strategic systems or simple pride. Players belonging to a warring corporation may attack the opposition without impunity or loss of security status.

In order to keep things interesting and retain a bit of realism, declarations of war do not require a mutual agreement, just as in the real world. The declaration of war is sent from one CEO to another and the fight begins. Corporations are limited to three declared wars at a time, though the number of wars in which a corp can be involved is limitless. For example, if Corp A has declared war on Corps B, C and D, the CEO must surrender – or force the CEO of B, C or D to surrender – before he can declare war on Corp E; however, if Corp A has declared war on Corps B, C and D, Corp E may declare war on Corp A.



War is a nessasary part of the game. Might is the only measure in EVE it always has been. If it stops being that way the game is lost. This better never make it to TQ they are already making corp wars cost money to maintain. Just leave it at that.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2004.10.08 03:34:00 - [27]
 

Well this is rather said for me as my current profession is a standover gal, declaring war on medium sized corporations and extorting them for isk. I'm currently finalizing negotiations for a ceasefire with a certain corporation today in fact.

This will destroy my business though it may help me with the ore theiving thing as corps wont be able to declare war on me for stealing ore and if they take advantage of the criminal flagging, I can choose to declare war on them if they look like fat juicy target.

All up this is a stupid idea. Stopping the creation of new alts and the abilty to hide in newbie corps would be much much smarter. Why treat the symptoms of a bad design flaw rather then addressing the actual problem.

Infinity Ziona

Zaintiraris
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2004.10.08 03:49:00 - [28]
 

Hmmm... It says you can't declare war because they haven't killed any of your members. This doesn't mean you can't still just gank the heck out of them. I think its just saying that .5+ is going to be safer. .4- is still going to be concord free after all... so just keep ganking .4 miners.

Thraxll
Minmatar
D'Ahrk Prophesy
Posted - 2004.10.08 07:42:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Thraxll on 08/10/2004 07:45:13
Another way this will be exploited if it goes live: Disrupting mining ops with impunity and no fear of consequence. Think about it: If your corp is an economic competitor to mine (or just a local "smacktalk enemy"), my corp can now utterly disrupt your corp's mining ops by way of the much-loved-by-alts "ramming technique." We can follow you to any belt, and ram/surround all your mining and hauling ships. Endlessly. You will have to "run and hide" from us in order to mine in peace. You will not be able to declare war against us and defend yourselves, you'll just have to deal with being rammed, prevented from moving/warping/etc every time your corp tries to mine.

BAD IDEA.



(edited for friendliness Wink )





Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.10.08 07:49:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 08/10/2004 07:51:15
Originally by: Number SixtyNine
Edited by: Number SixtyNine on 07/10/2004 20:09:23

"Seeing as I haven't actually blown up any ships I'm immune to any comeback at all (..)"

Might be even funnier, depending what the wording in the requester exactly means.

If "killed any of you corporations members" refers to literal podkilling, then a griefer can go as far as to destroy people's ships with no fear... oh well. Guess we'll see. :s


Same Avatar, same Sig, same quoting style.... different name... j0sephine is back?


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