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blankseplocked [Proposal] Add skill which reduces Jump Clone timer just a little bit.
 
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Aineko Macx
Posted - 2009.12.22 08:38:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
I support the idea of a skill to reduce the JC timer by up to 1 hour per level.

This.

Bernadictus
Caldari
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.22 09:45:00 - [92]
 

I support this.

For my limited play time I struggle between making isk pve'ing and pvp'ing in fountain. It's a real pain to time them.

Mantees
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.22 10:00:00 - [93]
 

I support the idea

MoeJoe Green
Gallente
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.12.22 12:18:00 - [94]
 


Brengholl
Posted - 2009.12.22 15:24:00 - [95]
 

support both the OP and the first post, both solutions seem good

Hugo Lordmagnus
Vexillari
Posted - 2009.12.22 17:29:00 - [96]
 

While I'd very much enjoy the reduced time, I think jump clones are a powerful utility to begin with; simply having the ability to jump makes a massive difference in gameplay.

I think the 24 hour timer is sensible, as it restricts abuse of the system but isn't overbearing. It does force the player to choose wisely and plan ahead--and it can definitely be a frustration. But, I don't think dropping it by an hour here or there will make that big of a difference in the mechanic. The order of magnitude (i.e. one day vs. half a day vs. six hours) is such that someone is still going to miss action somewhere because they jumped the night before. They'll feel slighted because they can't jump back, and then we're back here arguing whether it should be reduced to 12 hours.

By planning ahead, I've been able to minimize the frustrations of the wait time, so I'm going to withhold support for now. Good idea in concept; I just don't think it's necessary.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.12.22 23:35:00 - [97]
 

Jumping twice in 48 hours just means you'll have a 1000 strong fleet of Goons on your door, then when they're done beating you up for three hours, they'll be on someone else's door across the other side of the galaxy.


Extend the jump clone timer to 40 hours.

Captain Mung
Posted - 2009.12.27 08:02:00 - [98]
 

Support for 1hour or less reduction per level.

Having the time be 19 hours instead of 24 isn't going to create some huge migration of toons all the time.

Alexis Cato
Posted - 2009.12.27 16:47:00 - [99]
 

1 h/level sounds reasonable.

Omega Flames
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2009.12.28 08:09:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: mynnna
Originally by: CommanderData211
I think a good solution might be to be able to jump twice within a 48 hour period. This allows people to conduct business and come back while still limiting clone jumping to the same number of overall jumps. Takers?

I support the general principle, although I think this is a better solution than a skill to reduce the cooldown.


me too.....*curses himself for agreeing with goon...wth?!?!? :(

crimson fire
Posted - 2010.02.03 16:25:00 - [101]
 

yup

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.02.03 21:19:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Aineko Macx
Originally by: TeaDaze
I support the idea of a skill to reduce the JC timer by up to 1 hour per level.

This.
Something like this.

Jonah Pod
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.03 21:36:00 - [103]
 

Not supported.

Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.02.04 04:32:00 - [104]
 

Supported.

Personally, I'd like to play in an EVE without jumpclones, jump freighters, and jump bridges. I'd like to play in an EVE where 0.0 entities could disable gates, build new ones, stabilize wormholes, and otherwise change the essential terrain in their space.

But I doubt that CCP has that vision: the velocity of conflict and markets makes accessible fights and logistics a desirable thing, and now would be a good time for a skill to reduce jumpclone lag--perhaps by an hour per level, so you could jump back at the beginning of a play session the next day, rather than the end.

I would add, however, a concurrent ISK-charge for clone jumping, of some amount related to the clone grade quality, and perhaps related to how much prior to 24h you are jumping.

--Krum

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.02.04 05:25:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Yon Krum
Supported.

Personally, I'd like to play in an EVE without jumpclones, jump freighters, and jump bridges. I'd like to play in an EVE where 0.0 entities could disable gates, build new ones, stabilize wormholes, and otherwise change the essential terrain in their space.

But I doubt that CCP has that vision: the velocity of conflict and markets makes accessible fights and logistics a desirable thing, and now would be a good time for a skill to reduce jumpclone lag--perhaps by an hour per level, so you could jump back at the beginning of a play session the next day, rather than the end.

I would add, however, a concurrent ISK-charge for clone jumping, of some amount related to the clone grade quality, and perhaps related to how much prior to 24h you are jumping.

--Krum
Or perhaps distance?Idea

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute

Posted - 2010.02.04 09:57:00 - [106]
 

Surprised at so many nay-sayers. We're talking about a few hours off of the 24 hr jump timer. That isn't going to create any universe breaking gameplay changes.

Would also accept 1 jump clone per day. More time playing rather than waiting out my timer is a good thing.

Titus Balls
Minmatar
Balls Independent Traders
Posted - 2010.02.04 14:12:00 - [107]
 

+1 from me, the amount of times I have missed a crucial fight because I had to jump to empire 20 hours before is annoying and some of the suggestions presented here are very valid.

I don't agree that it needs to be a free-for-all, it does still need some kind of penalty (2 jumps in 48h, or a skill to reduce JC time)

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.04 15:59:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Anna Lifera on 04/02/2010 16:02:16
supported for the double jump within 48 hours.

it's bad enough my old corp barely did any pvp ops at all because of inactivity and lack of numbers. even worse is when i jump clones, only to find out they cancelled it at the last second, leaving me stuck in a no-implant jump clone til the next day for no good reason. and i'm sure no one's gonna want to stay up 24 hours to maintain the focus, situational awareness, energy, and reflexes needed to pvp for that long or even close to it.

and from the looks of it, most of the ppl who disapprove r just trolls just want to make the game less fun for everyone, including themselves.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.02.05 17:09:00 - [109]
 

Supported!

Jonah Pod
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.05 22:24:00 - [110]
 

May I draw your attention to this linkage?

Wiki Entry "Rejected Issues" Category

This proposal was rejected by CSM3 and wasn't updated since. So why give it another shot?

Not supported.

Lucy Midnight
Loki Conglomerate
Posted - 2010.02.05 23:56:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Jonah Pod
May I draw your attention to this linkage?

Wiki Entry "Rejected Issues" Category

This proposal was rejected by CSM3 and wasn't updated since. So why give it another shot?

Not supported.


You can draw attention all you want; that was the last CSM, there is now a new CSM. It was not proposed to CCP and therefore CCP did not reject it.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.02.06 09:23:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Jonah Pod
May I draw your attention to this linkage?

Wiki Entry "Rejected Issues" Category

This proposal was rejected by CSM3 and wasn't updated since. So why give it another shot?

Not supported.


In that case, I don't think it can be re-raised.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.02.07 05:17:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Jonah Pod
May I draw your attention to this linkage?

Wiki Entry "Rejected Issues" Category

This proposal was rejected by CSM3 and wasn't updated since. So why give it another shot?

Not supported.


In that case, I don't think it can be re-raised.
That is ridiculous, I hope you're wrong. What kind of moronic bureaucratic and pointless clause would that be if an idea could never be revisited, even in a different form, even if it has merit, simply because one CSM group with perhaps different priorities rejected it for who know what reasons. If that is so there is even less point in voting for the CSM then there is currently.

(Please note I avoided using the language I would have enjoyed. Praise me Rolling EyesRazz)

Jonah Pod
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.07 10:31:00 - [114]
 

Praised you are, Jin Nib ;)

Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Jonah Pod
May I draw your attention to this linkage?

Wiki Entry "Rejected Issues" Category

This proposal was rejected by CSM3 and wasn't updated since. So why give it another shot?

Not supported.


In that case, I don't think it can be re-raised.
That is ridiculous, I hope you're wrong. What kind of moronic bureaucratic and pointless clause would that be if an idea could never be revisited, even in a different form, even if it has merit, simply because one CSM group with perhaps different priorities rejected it for who know what reasons. If that is so there is even less point in voting for the CSM then there is currently.

(Please note I avoided using the language I would have enjoyed. Praise me Rolling EyesRazz)


I suppose, the point is that the proposal wasn't updated after it had been rejected. If all the cons that lead to the CSM 3 decision would have been addressed, I'd expect it to be legitimately raised against CSM 4.

However, as pointed to in the Minutes, a similar issue had been brought to CCP already and was answered in September 2009:

Quote:
6.54. Remove pause for Jump Clones and implants
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Remove_pause_for_JC_and_implants
The proposal as suggested is difficult to implement. However an alternative button for pausing/resuming placed in the jump clone interface is considered acceptable by both CCP and the CSM.
Plugging in implants may, however, be fixable as proposed.


While I take this as a clear "no" from CCP, feel free to get in touch with the OP and ask to have the proposal updated.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.02.07 16:25:00 - [115]
 

I followed the wiki link but there was no info there. From what I can tell this is referring to a different matter entirely Jonah. Having to pause training in-order to jump is inconvenient but not a big deal, also it's not part of what we are discussing here.

In addition the suggestion to jump 2 times in 48 hours is a pretty good option in my opinion and wasn't raised in the earlier minutes presented. As well as the fact that those minutes had quite a few references to the good old days which is not an acceptable reason.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.02.08 05:52:00 - [116]
 

It would be silly if a proposal could be infinitely re-raised without any changes simply because one person wants it to.

Jonah Pod
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.08 08:03:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Jonah Pod on 08/02/2010 08:04:15
Originally by: Jin Nib
I followed the wiki link but there was no info there. From what I can tell this is referring to a different matter entirely Jonah. Having to pause training in-order to jump is inconvenient but not a big deal, also it's not part of what we are discussing here.


Unfortunately, the wiki pages do not contain any information regarding the progress of a proposal at all. One has to find and dig through the corresponding Minutes/Reports to gather additional information :( That's why I provided the additional linkage.

Originally by: Jin Nib
In addition the suggestion to jump 2 times in 48 hours is a pretty good option in my opinion and wasn't raised in the earlier minutes presented. As well as the fact that those minutes had quite a few references to the good old days which is not an acceptable reason.


Don't get me wrong, I don't want to keep anyone to re-raise an issue formerly rejected by a CSM. However, I expect such proposals to be updated appropriately to reflect the reasons that led to its refusal, thus removing points like Sokratesz -below- above. That's my point I'm trying to draw your attention to.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.02.08 18:08:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
infinitely re-raised
A few things, first it would be in a different sitting of the CSM and a different person would be raising it. It's hardly one person doing so infinitely. Second given that the CSM is supposedly something supposed to represent the rest of the players they may want to take a bit more time and give a more in depth consideration of things which have a lot of player interest. Look at those minutes, those are weak unsupported arguments for the most part (it's hard to give a good argument in one line admittedly).

As Jonah suggests all that need to be done is to refine the idea which one assumes these sorts of threads are well suited to doing. Part of the problem of course is those tiny one liners that may be invalid arguments entirely but in any case may be near impossible to address because theres nothing there to go on.

Lets just have a closer look then shall we?
Quote:
Avalloc introduces the issue being the 24h delay for repeated clone jumping was unnecessarily inhibit daily play. A skill should be introduced to alleviate or jumping be allowed twice in 48h.
Quote:
Meissa thinks the restriction serves a good purpose.
Um... ok. Any specifics? Anything at all? She might as well just have said no and be done with it.
Quote:
Avalloc claims that "pod jumping" was already possible, voiding tactical intelligence as to an opponent's travel restrictions.
Voted for.
Quote:
Dierdra states that a similar request had already been raised and failed. Travelling through New Eden already was too easy in her opinion.
Being raised and having failed is not a valid argument against an idea, unless appeal to authority is your thing. Travel time really is the purview of warping and gates, but for the sake of argument does eliminating a few hours off the clone jump really drastically reduce travel time? Indeed it might even be considered to be in keeping with the games direction. If using the second suggestion it doesn't change travel time at all objectively.
Quote:
This is seconded by Larkonis. The costs or pod jumping were justified.
I don't understand what this is referring to.
Quote:
Erik suggests to increase the jump clone timer to two days, and allow a skill for its reduction. Avalloc thinks that this would impede new players too much.
So Eric is really for it just not in this form. Either that or he has no idea whats going on.
Quote:
mazzilliu expresses her support saying that a reduction would improve the fitness of the feature to daily routine yet still serve the purpose of restricting its use to once per day.
She voted for.
Quote:
This is later seconded by Erik.
I'm of the opinion he has no clue what going on.
Quote:
Larkonis tends to agree with Dierdra in that travelling was way easy compared to the early days (no warp to 0 - figure that!)
The game has moved on from those days, we need a reason that has to to with the game that exist now not the one that existed 5 years ago.
Quote:
but might support a slight skill decrease of 2h maximum.
Again supported but without a vote.
Quote:
Meissa points out an inconsistency in the proposal where new players would not be helped if the skill was a very high rank.
What has this got to do with new players? If it's a skill then so what? New players also can't fly battleships, who cares? If it was granted to everybody then they get it too, just because its not as useful for someone new as opposed to some long timer is weak reason. A frigate is also more useful to an old timer then a newbie.
Quote:
Also, she sees an unfavourable advantage for large alliances arising from a simplicifaction.
Could happen depending on how it was implemented, could also make things more interesting, this is very vague speculation at best.

6-3 against 2 of those were unsure or would have voted yes in a different form and we don't have Zastrows reasons for saying yes.

Allan Sheperd
Posted - 2010.02.15 06:08:00 - [119]
 


Freezehunter
Gallente
The Scope

Posted - 2010.02.15 12:34:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/02/2010 12:36:01
Edited by: Freezehunter on 15/02/2010 12:34:31
2 jumps every 48 hours!

Log in, you are in your +4 carebear learning clone > clone jump into PVP clone > do PVP op > come back home/die > jump back to +4 Clone...

PERFECT!


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