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blankseplocked Restoring faith in the ransom
 
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Alia Xi
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.08.04 12:36:00 - [1]
 

Ransoms are increasingly refused because the 3rd party has no way to ensure that they'll be honoured. After paying up they get blown up regardless, and as this trend increases it means less ransoms are accepted.

Some pirates like ransoms because it means a nice way to earn some money. I'd say they're probably even preferred than blowing stuff up, since you know how much you're getting with a ransom. A drop is somewhat of a lottery.

If we want more people in low sec, and more profit from these people then it seems that a suitable way would be to have some sort of escrow - since we will never get rid of people who don't honour ransoms. If the 3rd party has the chance to leave with their ship intact, they'll be more likely to come to low sec - meaning more targets (to shoot or ransom), meaning more profit (or kills). Good for business as I see it.

So what about introducing some sort of escrow system for ransoms? Discuss/flame/troll/derail....

Mashashige
Minmatar
Eternal Perseverance
Hellstrome Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.04 12:43:00 - [2]
 

Id love a 3rd party that will have a "the ransoming pirate guide", and will review each corp/solo pirate out-there, and you could have stars, and good pirates will get more stars, and bad lying pirates will get black stars, and then the carebears could open the browser ingame and check it and then if were nice theyll pay and if not they wont and well all have a great happy tea party with scuns and cupcakes and mad hatters and white rabbits that can talk and awesome awesome awesome sweet sugar happy unicorn day.

OR, you could actually honor ransoms and build your pirate reputation about honoring it.

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.08.04 12:44:00 - [3]
 

Hmmm....

If only there was some sort of discussion forum for features and ideas.....

Another Whine
Caldari
Minions of Hasselhoff
Posted - 2009.08.04 12:52:00 - [4]
 

can i has Gold Star please?

Alia Xi
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.08.04 13:01:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Mashashige
OR, you could actually honor ransoms and build your pirate reputation about honoring it.


True. Although it would be nice to have something to underwrite that and maximise targets and profits.


Originally by: Tiny Tove
Hmmm.... If only there was some sort of discussion forum for features and ideas.....


Hmmm.... you're right, if only....


I haven't been hit with the flamestick lately and need a fix Embarassed


Lana Torrin
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.04 13:02:00 - [6]
 

"100M isk or you loose your ship, you have 10 seconds"
"Let me just look you up in the.." *BOOM*

I see no problem with this.. None at all.

Alia Xi
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.08.04 13:09:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Lana Torrin
"100M isk or you loose your ship, you have 10 seconds"
"Let me just look you up in the.." *BOOM*

I see no problem with this.. None at all.



Thanks Lana, I knew I could count on you for the lolz Very Happy
Made me laugh anyway....


Too Dangerous
Posted - 2009.08.04 13:40:00 - [8]
 

There is a system allready in place for this - never pay ransoms.

Lord Windu
Posted - 2009.08.04 13:49:00 - [9]
 

Ransoms are a risk, you either pay or you don't. Eve without risk is, well it's just not Eve so although I disagree with those that dishonour ransoms, I feel that it is only right that there is a high level of risk when paying a ransom, it livens things up. If people are regulars in an area then they should have a general idea of who would honour a ransom and who probably won't, it's just down to the player using their head.

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:08:00 - [10]
 

Hey, you know, if you pay a ransom... if you right click, give money, and the pirate is right there in the chat window he opened and demanded 300 million isk, and you've just paid him, you know what would be a good idea?

Telling him you've just paid.

That would be a sterling idea. A really really good idea. Because otherwise you might end up nursing 1.6 billion damage as opposed to 0.3 billion. Since you could afford the isk and the mouse clicks, I suggest you push the boat out and spend on a few keystrokes.

Keeping it to yourself, as your little secret, definitely not the best plan.

Normin Bates
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:28:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Too Dangerous
There is a system allready in place for this - never pay ransoms.

Grumples McGee
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:29:00 - [12]
 

It would have to be implemented as a game feature.

The target gets a popup box. "You are offered release for 30,000,000 ISK. If you agree, the amount will automatically be deducted if your current ship enters warp."

Triggers:
When you agree, the money is deducted immediately and held in escrow.
If you enter warp in your current ship, the pirates get the money.
If you enter warp in your pod or if you die, ransom fails and you get your money back.


Scenarios:
1) You click "yes". 30 million ISK is deducted immediately. The pirates release you and you enter warp. The pirates get their money.

2) You click "yes". The pirates blow you up. You get your 30 million ISK back as soon as you warp out in your pod or get podded.

3) You click "yes". The pirates release you and you sit there. The pirates decide you're taking too long and blow you up. You get your money back.

4) You click "no". The pirates blow you up.

Nothing stops the pirates from following you into warp but at least they held up the basic bargain and let you go.

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:34:00 - [13]
 

How are these proposals supposed to help the "stealth" ransoms when you convo somebody who is losing and offer them a ransom when you have got NOTHING to do with the fight that's going on?

Neacail
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:37:00 - [14]
 

The reputation deal works just fine. Although I haven't been ransomed in almost a year, as I prefer to die with HONOUR AND GLORY, in the unlikely situation that I was indeed in the victim side of a ransom, I would know off the top of my head exactly who to pay or not.

All you have to do really is remember the corporations who are known to pay ransoms in your area, and anything else you use common sense. But always remember one thing: if they are eastern europeans, don't pay.

The problem really, is that the ones who are the easiest to ransom (mission runners, plexers, people stupid enough to park a BS in a belt with no friends nearby, etc.) are very unlikely to know this stuff and usually have the carebear notion that nobody honors ransoms.

Grumples McGee
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:41:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tiny Tove
How are these proposals supposed to help the "stealth" ransoms when you convo somebody who is losing and offer them a ransom when you have got NOTHING to do with the fight that's going on?

Offers cannot be sent while you are cloaked.

(The cloaking field interferes with the uplink.)

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:46:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Grumples McGee
Originally by: Tiny Tove
How are these proposals supposed to help the "stealth" ransoms when you convo somebody who is losing and offer them a ransom when you have got NOTHING to do with the fight that's going on?

Offers cannot be sent while you are cloaked.

(The cloaking field interferes with the uplink.)



Why not?
What's wrong with ransoming somebody when it's nothing to do with you and just getting the money and leaving?

Alia Xi
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:56:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tiny Tove
How are these proposals supposed to help the "stealth" ransoms when you convo somebody who is losing and offer them a ransom when you have got NOTHING to do with the fight that's going on?


Only someone in gang/fleet would be able to issue a ransom? That would stop random people in local trying to ransom someone when they had nothing to do with it.


Originally by: Grumples McGee
It would have to be implemented as a game feature.

I like your suggestion, it makes sense although I'm sure a few people will find holes in it but nothing that couldn't be addressed.


I know a few have said "I like the risk" or "I know who to pay and who not to" or "It makes it more exciting/lively" and I agree with that 100% but I'm coming about it from the other angle - the angle of the victim. It would probably encourage more people to low sec if they knew they were going to die/pay a ransom rather than die AND pay a ransom.

But reputation of the pirate and their corp do go a long way and people in the know will understand who is trustworthy and who isn't. Those who aren't in the know would simply refuse a ransom, whereas this way it's more likely they'll accept it. If you (the pirate) don't want to ransom, just blow them up. Best of both worlds.


Grumples McGee
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:57:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Tiny Tove
What's wrong with ransoming somebody when it's nothing to do with you and just getting the money and leaving?

I'm just providing suggestions that meet the OP's requirements: restoring faith in the ransom.

If that's the goal, we should really make it so that you must have some sort of warp scramble on the target before you can send a ransom request.


In the end, I'm more interested in supporting gameplay for pirates than gameplay for people who sit in cloaked ships.

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.08.04 15:16:00 - [19]
 

Sounds like you're advocating additional regulation on the sandbox. Maybe they would issue an addendum for the Butterfly Effect video.

"Waaht are you gooohing tooo dooo?"
"Raaahnsom the miner thehn fligh awaaaay?"
"Becuz in Eve, you cayn't do that. Welcurm.... to the sahhhndbarx".

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:40:00 - [20]
 

You could always implement that tystem that automatically handles the ransom BUT keepign the traditional ransom. HOW?

Easy make the aautomatic system charge 50% more than what the pirate asks. If pirate ask 100M you pay trough the automatic system you pay 150M and pirate gets 100m. Its safe and works.

If you want risk you can try a 100M paid trough traditional method.. unsafe... but cheaper....

Grumples McGee
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:23:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Grumples McGee on 04/08/2009 18:25:10
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Sounds like you're advocating additional regulation on the sandbox. Maybe they would issue an addendum for the Butterfly Effect video.

You could say the same thing about the Market.

Or the Wallet.

Or Contracts.

Or the fact that I can't blow up CONCORDE ships or loot NPC stations and steal your blueprints or punch your character in the nose and steal his lunch money.


The game has a number of systems designed to allow players to regulate transactions with other players if they choose to. You don't HAVE to use the market. You can trade if you prefer. You don't HAVE to use the ransom system. You can open conversation and chat that way.

More options = good for the game.



But yes, there should be a "broker's fee", just like in the market. If you choose to use the secure system, you pay a small overhead.

Lyris Nairn
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:35:00 - [22]
 

What in-game reason would there be for such a system? At present all transactions are conducted through the lawful SCC. What in-game organization would be the escrow holder for this proposed system, and why should capsuleers throughout New Eden trust this clearly unlawful committee to uphold its unlawful surcharges and brokerage?

Bugszor
Caldari
PodPal
Leathermen
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:38:00 - [23]
 

Podpall only ransoms pods.
We've honored every ransom that we did.

though we only ransom people that are from early 2008, and ofc ransom gets higher with the age.
Its like this.. we've popped yer ship. ooh noes..
But what about yer +4.. +5.. or maybe like me. a high-grade slave set + all hardwiring.

If i wil EVER get ransomed i wil pay the ransom and i wil take the damn chance of being popped or not.

my implants are worth well over 2.5 bill.
if they ask 100 mill for the ransom. i'll gladly take that chance.
if i get popped. so be it. its a measily 100 mill extra with the chance i had to save 2.5 bill.

Hope this makes any sence. as i'm still kinda tired.

Xenophanes Colophon
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:39:00 - [24]
 

Quit idiot-proofing Eve. This can work with an independent third party. Like one of the banks in Eve. Bank charges the person being ransomed a fee to use their escrow service, they get to warp out safely, or keep their isk if the get blown up. Making it a feature in the game, however, is just ridiculous. Do you think kidnappers use escrow? Hell no. They'd get caught and thrown in jail. Flagged by Concord is kinda the same thing. So either get a bank to do it, establish your own escrow service, or leave it alone. Regardless of which you pick, please quit trying to ruin the game.

Robert0288
Caldari
R E D E M P T I O N
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:13:00 - [25]
 

Confirming I am the 3rd party. If being ransomed send your isk to me ASAP so you can save your ship.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:18:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Lord Windu
Ransoms are a risk, you either pay or you don't. Eve without risk is, well it's just not Eve so although I disagree with those that dishonour ransoms, I feel that it is only right that there is a high level of risk when paying a ransom, it livens things up. If people are regulars in an area then they should have a general idea of who would honour a ransom and who probably won't, it's just down to the player using their head.


At the moment the level of risk in paying a ransom is roughly that of playing Russian roulette with an M1911 and hoping that it jams.

Ga'len
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:27:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Ga''len on 04/08/2009 19:28:43
Originally by: Lana Torrin
"100M isk or you loose your ship, you have 10 seconds"
"Let me just look you up in the.." *BOOM*

I see no problem with this.. None at all.


Many 'newer' pirates don't have any patience when performing a ransom and end up blowing up the target. They expect the isk to be sent as soon as the convo is opened. It goes like this:

Pirate > Yarr, pay me 10 million or you die, 10 seconds.
...6 seconds of lag pass as the demands are received by the victim's convo window....
Victim > Sure, isk sent.
...6 more seconds of lag pass, response received by the pirate's convo window. Pirate is already shooting at victim...BOOM!!!
Victim >YOU JERK, YOU DISHONORED THE RANSOM
Pirate >Sorry, you did not pay in time, here is your isk back.
Victim >I paid you and you blew me up!!!! Name and shame on the forums.

You have to give the victim time to send you the money and you have to take into account several factors:

* Lag.
* Fear, victim's hands shaking from being attacked.
* Lag
* Victim's denial of the reality that they have been caught by a pirate.
* Lag
* Wallet lag

Think about it, you have just attacked some poor soul who is literally shaking at the keyboard. They are trying to type, trying to do what you ask. If you make your demands and they don't respond, say something like we used to in Neo Spartans, "Your silence will not save you, you have 10 seconds to reply".

If they still don't reply, pop them. If they do, make your ransom demand again.

Wait for the response, say, 30 seconds. Many times they will be rather angry and rude with you. That's for the lulz archive.

If you don't have the patience to wait 60 seconds for a response, you should not be doing ransoms.

As for looking up a pirate in a 3rd party application, it simply will not work. With the lag that this game has, spending the time to look at a website using the in game and/or a out of game browser simply takes too long.

Having a built in game mechanic for ransoms is interesting, but again, it will not work, it's too constrictive.

What needs to happen is something added to the new player tutorial, such as an NPC ransom of a pilot. Such a real training exercise would allow for newer players to be prepared and it would also allow for a more 'emergent' game play experience.

Tee Hee Hee, emergent, see what I did there? Razz

Aralissia
Amarr
Lollyp0ps
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:29:00 - [28]
 

Escrow party can work.... if you're lucky Chribba is online when you're being WTFOMGBBQPWND.

Pulivin Motic
Caldari
Outer Limits Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:30:00 - [29]
 

so something like courier contracts??? Instead of opening the package it would be poping the ship

Mashashige
Minmatar
Eternal Perseverance
Hellstrome Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:48:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ga'len
Smart stuff



Agreed, though some people are smart enough to ask for a ransom the moment their carrier is tackled by ebil piwates in egg... You wouldn't know any of those smart people right Ga'len?Twisted Evil


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