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Hexentanz
Amarr
The Eden Trading International Corporation
Violent Entity
Posted - 2009.07.22 11:28:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hexentanz on 22/07/2009 13:01:00
Hello

I have a tactical request, first some informations:
-> It's 0.0 Space
-> Capital Drone Carrier Support, Battleships and everything that is smaller.
-> We Can Probe with Sister Combat Probes

-> Hostiles Fly: Arazu and Pilgrim

My question: how to get them?
They stay online for a day and do NOTHING, then some idiot get's his mining barge out.. and boom, jumped on 0km, scram, down. Target's fly cloaked away.

We tested to get them with just letting one barge mining... and we stay with stealthbombers and interceptors cloaked near him.

they came after 1,5h and when we uncloaked, they warped away like instant, say: no chance to lock down and warpdisrupt.

Any ideas on how to get them?

Vasim Vio
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.07.22 11:32:00 - [2]
 

Anyone tried stealth bomber as tackler? You should be able to tank it a bit with 400mm plate.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.07.22 11:40:00 - [3]
 

Pay them to leave would likely be the easiest solution. Cloaky's that are willing to wait a "long" time to get a kill are going to be tough to deal with.

While typically I'd be all for fighting and not being a push over, in this situation one guy and his alt can control your game play for as long as he wants.

Not to mention Pilgrim's are slippery bastards that are damn though to catch and kill. (Hence the reason I'm spec training for one now)

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2009.07.22 11:49:00 - [4]
 

Simplest, pay them to go away. Hard way is to try an ambush which you tried unsuccessfully. Try again and again and eventually you will get them. I use this tactic myself sometimes. Thanks to local as an intel tool, I can't just sneak into a system and gank someone. I have to go in, cloak, go afk for 2-3 hours till everyone settles down and then make my attack. Frankly it sucks for everyone but that's the way it is everyone but w-space.

Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.07.22 11:56:00 - [5]
 

Well, if they're warping to 0 Km on the Mining Barge, why not fit some Scrams to that to hold one of them in place long enough for your other ships to get it locked up and Scrambled. That way, the other Recon has to choose whether to bug out from your Uncloaking Gank Squad or try to take out the Barge fast enough for the Other Recon to Escape.

If he chooses to Bug out, you'll get a Kill. If he tries to complete the Gank, you'll likely get them Both.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.07.22 12:01:00 - [6]
 

Additionally cloaked dictors/hictors.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.07.22 12:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Vasim Vio
Anyone tried stealth bomber as tackler? You should be able to tank it a bit with 400mm plate.


This ^^

SB is the only ship that has no targeting delay after decloaking so ditch the launchers in favour of tank and tackle then use them to hold the recons in place till backup arrives.

Alternatively the trusty old battle badger could hit them with a warp disruptor.

Both of these tricks have been around for years but sometimes the old ones really are the best.

Hexentanz
Amarr
The Eden Trading International Corporation
Violent Entity
Posted - 2009.07.22 12:37:00 - [8]
 


Well, thanks everyone for the informations, they are all good and i will bring that in when i talk next time to the other strategic planers for our pvp fleet.

i will inform u here what happenend if we got them (fraps vid? :D) or if we choose to pay them to go away.

Originally by: King Rothgar
Thanks to local as an intel tool, I can't just sneak into a system and gank someone


the problem is, this 0.0 is w-space with delayed local.
but the good old adressbook and altchar at spyagent station helps enough.

cheers
Hex YARRRR!!

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.07.22 12:39:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: yani dumyat



SB is the only ship that has no targeting delay after decloaking so ditch the launchers in favour of tank and tackle then use them to hold the recons in place till backup arrives.




Actually a Black Ops has the same bonus - but that's becoming an expensive option in both ISK and skills. The disadvantage on the Black Ops is that it can't warp onto the grid cloaked - but you could have it in place beforehand if you can get online before the Recons. It's a big heavy tackler, but would have plenty of tank for a pair of Recons and if sensor boosted, could lock fast.

Another alternative might be a cloaked HIC or 'dictor that can decloak and bubble them as they decloak. Get some fighters and/or drones assigned to the HIC to decloak the Recons.

Hexentanz
Amarr
The Eden Trading International Corporation
Violent Entity
Posted - 2009.07.22 12:59:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Hexentanz on 22/07/2009 13:00:30
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Get some fighters and/or drones assigned to the HIC to decloak the Recons.


yeah we used that technique when we tought they jumped out of the w-system and soon back in, so we orbit 2 interceptors, one at 3km and one at 9km and assigned them 5 Warror II (Fighers like Dragonfly are to slow) ... those light drones fly up, down and behind the interceptor at 8km range.. a huge decloak boat ;)

i hope we catch them and send them to clonevat soon, think i would be a bit mad if we can't have our revenge YARRRR!!

(this technique does not work on the field because if he cloaks, he warps away, to small timeframe to lock down or either uncloak them - they know perfectly what they doExclamation

cheers
hex YARRRR!!


Akura kawanaka
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.07.22 13:03:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Hexentanz
Hello

I have a tactical request, first some informations:
-> It's 0.0 Space
-> We have >5 Large POS there
-> Capital Drone Carrier Support, Battleships and everything that is smaller.
-> We Can Probe with Sister Combat Probes

-> Hostiles Fly: Arazu and Pilgrim

My question: how to get them?
They stay online for a day and do NOTHING, then some idiot get's his mining barge out.. and boom, jumped on 0km, scram, down. Target's fly cloaked away.

We tested to get them with just letting one barge mining... and we stay with stealthbombers and interceptors cloaked near him.

they came after 1,5h and when we uncloaked, they warped away like instant, say: no chance to lock down and warpdisrupt.

Any ideas on how to get them?


one person's mentioned cloaked interdictors/HIC's - I'd second that notion.

send a HIC to a belt and cloak up, then send the mining barge and have some inties ready to warp in. the HIC will be able to bubble as soon as they uncloak and is in no danger of being taken out by two recons. you can even bomb in the general direction of the HIC and it won't take significant damage

Vasim Vio
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.07.22 13:12:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Akura kawanaka

send a HIC to a belt and cloak up, then send the mining barge and have some inties ready to warp in. the HIC will be able to bubble as soon as they uncloak and is in no danger of being taken out by two recons. you can even bomb in the general direction of the HIC and it won't take significant damage


HIC won't have recalbiration delay after decloaking? I ask because i had smartbomb delay because this.

Wai Ng'Tse
Posted - 2009.07.22 14:07:00 - [13]
 

Dont use a HIC, use a normal interdictor, everbody fits those with cloaks, and they definitely do not have a delay.

Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
Posted - 2009.07.22 14:11:00 - [14]
 

Sadly, this is a really common tactic, and not one there are a whole lot of options to defeat.

Mostly, people will cloak up, go afk for 10 hours and watch ****, then come back and gank someone. If they are really patient, there is nothing you can do about it, other than a successful bait.

IMHO, the game needs a probe with a really long cycle time - say 5 mins - that can find cloaked ships. The cloaker has nothing to worry about if he is active and moving around, but it would keep people from doing this BS "cloak up all day afk" thing. Its silly really.

Not to say our alliance doesnt do it ourselves. Its very effective morale warfare, that really saps an enemies will to fight and ability to make isk, but its still absolute cheese.

annab
Amarr
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.07.22 14:12:00 - [15]
 

Warpbubble right next to an asteroid or better inside one some mining sites have these. They come to get you and warp in to a killing ground. Not only does it work a charm. They have to unstick themselfs which we all know is a pain.

No cloak stuck to an asteroid being locked and shot at = dead recon most times.

Just have few people mining and two bs make it look like a mining op. Anything else should be cloaked after all its a trap. Having thiry BS and one minier siting there gives the game away.Very Happy

Scrubologist
Posted - 2009.07.22 17:26:00 - [16]
 

Tank up the mining ship, have a dictor cloaked nearby, have Stealth Bombers out at bomb range - bingo...dead recons. ugh

Hexentanz
Amarr
The Eden Trading International Corporation
Violent Entity
Posted - 2009.07.22 17:59:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Scrubologist
Tank up the mining ship, have a dictor cloaked nearby, have Stealth Bombers out at bomb range - bingo...dead recons. ugh


sounds nice, we will do that

YARRRR!!YARRRR!!RazzYARRRR!!YARRRR!!


thanks mates for your tipsExclamation

Robert0288
Caldari
R E D E M P T I O N
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.22 19:28:00 - [18]
 

Cloaked dictors are definatly key, especially if you have have a dual launcher setup

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.07.22 20:24:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Emily Poast
Sadly, this is a really common tactic, and not one there are a whole lot of options to defeat.

Mostly, people will cloak up, go afk for 10 hours and watch ****, then come back and gank someone. If they are really patient, there is nothing you can do about it, other than a successful bait.

IMHO, the game needs a probe with a really long cycle time - say 5 mins - that can find cloaked ships. The cloaker has nothing to worry about if he is active and moving around, but it would keep people from doing this BS "cloak up all day afk" thing. Its silly really.

Not to say our alliance doesnt do it ourselves. Its very effective morale warfare, that really saps an enemies will to fight and ability to make isk, but its still absolute cheese.


Why is it silly, because there is one area of the game that a solo guy can actually have an advantage to the blobs and gank gangs? It's one area that skill less bubble camps and 50 man blobs can do nothing about. Personally I love it and it's why I've spec trained this toon in that direction, so I can do the same.

Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
Posted - 2009.07.22 21:30:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Mutnin

Why is it silly, because there is one area of the game that a solo guy can actually have an advantage to the blobs and gank gangs? It's one area that skill less bubble camps and 50 man blobs can do nothing about. Personally I love it and it's why I've spec trained this toon in that direction, so I can do the same.


There is nothing wrong with cloaking or moving while cloaked. Cloaking afk all day long - that needs to be fixed.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2009.07.22 21:51:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Emily Poast
There is nothing wrong with cloaking or moving while cloaked. Cloaking afk all day long - that needs to be fixed.


There is nothing wrong with mining or moving while mining. Mining afk all day long - that needs to be ... well, the OP already talked about what the fix is.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.07.22 22:05:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Emily Poast
Originally by: Mutnin

Why is it silly, because there is one area of the game that a solo guy can actually have an advantage to the blobs and gank gangs? It's one area that skill less bubble camps and 50 man blobs can do nothing about. Personally I love it and it's why I've spec trained this toon in that direction, so I can do the same.


There is nothing wrong with cloaking or moving while cloaked. Cloaking afk all day long - that needs to be fixed.


In null sec, not everyone can sit in a station all day. Besides that, how do you know he's afk? Maybe he's sitting there clicking the scan button every 10 secs for hours at a time..

Maybe he's chatting it up in some market channel while cloaked or traveling from one asteroid belt to another manually with out using warp. We all know the goons can't afford fuel for capswarm maybe the bad economy is hitting everyone else too.

GavinGoodrich
Posted - 2009.07.22 22:47:00 - [23]
 

http://www.atlas-alliance.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=87564
i did it and then

http://www.atlas-alliance.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=88009
some other people caught on :D

Mining barges have nice scan res (lock times) \o/

are they decloaking in scram range? or just 24k point range? People tend to rely on what's worked before for them, when it comes to ganking. Creatures of habit.

Battle hulks ftw baby. If you want support nearby, throw a logistics in fleet either cloaked up, or aligned to said belt/planet a short distance away for the save.

Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
Posted - 2009.07.22 23:21:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Mutnin


In null sec, not everyone can sit in a station all day. Besides that, how do you know he's afk? Maybe he's sitting there clicking the scan button every 10 secs for hours at a time..

Maybe he's chatting it up in some market channel while cloaked or traveling from one asteroid belt to another manually with out using warp. We all know the goons can't afford fuel for capswarm maybe the bad economy is hitting everyone else too.


I know they are afk, because I have done it. ;)

And you can kill afk macro-miners easy. You cant kill an afk guy cloaked in a recon as long as he is at a safespot.

Janice Jankowski
Posted - 2009.07.23 01:18:00 - [25]
 

How about fitting a bait barge?

They wont be able to get close enough to scan fittings

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.07.23 03:06:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 23/07/2009 03:09:50
Bah, just remove local and that problem is solved Rolling Eyes


In the meantime...

[Hulk, surprise mofo]
Damage Control II
Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation

Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Medium Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Strip Miner I
Cynosural Field Generator I
Salvager II

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

... bait them, light cyno, bridge a ****ton of ships in, pop their ships, make fun of them in local, pod them.

If your alliance is too cheap for a titan use a blackops.

If you dont even have a single pilot with a blackops, chances are you dont deserve that space you are occupying anyway.

If you are in w-space (yes, I did read the thread by now) replace the cyno with another strip miner for better mining yield while you are waiting, and jump them the traditional way.

Eka Lawrencia
Gallente
Posted - 2009.07.23 08:12:00 - [27]
 

Hulks have 50m3 drone bay and lots of med slots. A mid sized mining op can do more damage than two recons. Once they decloak, stop mining and start fighting.

Xorth Adimus
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.07.23 08:21:00 - [28]
 

Be ready at any time.
Be in coms.
Never fly alone.
Don't PVE with a hostile in local, bait them you can make lots more money!!
Also catch and decloak them at gates during roaming gatecamps, don't make it easy for them or anyone else to use your area.

Baiting works very well.
Have a cloaked dictor and recons in space near the belts ready with bait in the belt PVEing their heart out with a full tank and a point. Most of the time you can warp in a dictor at perfect range bubble and tackle them with your recons before they can get out. Works most the time without relying on the dictor to sit at the belt, which works, but is not so flexable, then you can loot the faction kit (which they always seem to use because, you know they are l33t. You know always kill some idiot guy on his own, but they cry exploit when you kill them with real pvp and farm them, yea really hard core pvpers Laughing)

Do this once or twice and they will find someone easier to kill. They are only killing you because you are easy to farm, erm where is your home system anyway? YARRRR!!


infra52x
Posted - 2009.07.23 11:19:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Scrubologist
Tank up the mining ship, have a dictor cloaked nearby, have Stealth Bombers out at bomb range - bingo...dead recons. ugh



Not only dead recons, but you would take out your dictor and miner as well with those bombs.

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.07.23 11:48:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: infra52x
Originally by: Scrubologist
Tank up the mining ship, have a dictor cloaked nearby, have Stealth Bombers out at bomb range - bingo...dead recons. ugh



Not only dead recons, but you would take out your dictor and miner as well with those bombs.


A single bomb won't do that sort of damage. You'd need to use small squad of bombers, launching simultaneously.

If you want to avoid taking out your firendly ships, then you can tank them with the appropriate resists for the type of bomb you're using. A 'dictor can be tanked enough to survive a Titan's doomsday if you know which resist to stack, so tanking against bombs of a known type isn't hard.


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