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XICD7
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.20 18:12:00 - [1]
 

Watsup, guys? I always scan many systems a day to get wormholes, plexes, etc. Most of the time I'd scan them down to 100% in 10 - 20 minutes. Now, I can't scan anything past 5% and always lose the signals. I've always used the same skill and had it at the same level, astrometrics 2. Does anyone know if something changed? If not, could you help me out so I can see what the problem is? Thanks.

Kva Plexcha
Gallente
Doing You Right
Posted - 2009.07.20 18:22:00 - [2]
 

Please post all your relevant scanning skills first, as in I dont know many people with just astro 2 being very consistent at scanning down everything .... also what kind of ship you use, rigs etc ....

Goose Ryder
Posted - 2009.07.20 18:24:00 - [3]
 

Are you using Core Probes or Combat probes ? Core probes have 2x the strength. With Astrometrics 2 you will need all the srength you can get to pin down some of the smaller sig sites.

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2009.07.20 18:24:00 - [4]
 

Because of the "even a friggin' noob can scan out everything with minimal skills so I've wasted all that time training exploration" threads, the difficulty of finding sites have been stealthily increased.

Astrometrics 2? I suggest you get it to 4 as soon as possible, and get your other support skills to 4 if they're not there already.

Some Advisor
Posted - 2009.07.20 18:28:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Goose Ryder
Core probes have 2x the strength.


iam under the impression that combat/core/deep space have the *SAME* strength in the same range of 0.5AU - 32AU (combat only can go down 0.5).

i use combat probes all the time for everything, scans sigs nicely (and FASTER because the probes warp faster so i have less lag on the frigging scanbugs) and i can even check for pos and ships and other crap without even changing a probe

Cpt Steo
Posted - 2009.07.20 18:31:00 - [6]
 

Well first of, if you only have astrometrics 2, that isn't great, you should train up for cov-ops(10% scan strength per level) and get astrometric range finding(10% scan strength per level) and Astrometric Pinpointing(-10% scan deviation).

I have all these skills to 4 and I can scan down any site 60 secs or less

XICD7
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.20 18:44:00 - [7]
 

I know this, but going from 10 minute scanning to not being able to scan at all is ridiculous, and yes I am using core probes and a Drake is what I'm using mostly.

Canute Minealot
Posted - 2009.07.20 19:18:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Some Advisor

iam under the impression that combat/core/deep space have the *SAME* strength in the same range of 0.5AU - 32AU (combat only can go down 0.5).

i use combat probes all the time for everything, scans sigs nicely (and FASTER because the probes warp faster so i have less lag on the frigging scanbugs) and i can even check for pos and ships and other crap without even changing a probe



Thats a common mistake, Combat probes only got the half scan str then Core probes. that mean Combat at 1 AU got the same scan str like Core at 2 AU.
And believe me with Combat probes you Never find anything, special not 0.0 Signatures.
And you arn't allways faster, because Core probes are more precise then Combat, that means the result dont jump around that much. That means you can decrease your scan range by 2 steps mosttimes.

about XICD7 and his Drake.
Maybe you encounter some Signatures with very low Signal strenght, and since your Drake dont got any bonus on Scanning you will have a hard time/impossible to find it.

Goose Ryder
Posted - 2009.07.20 19:26:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Some Advisor
Originally by: Goose Ryder
Core probes have 2x the strength.


iam under the impression that combat/core/deep space have the *SAME* strength in the same range of 0.5AU - 32AU (combat only can go down 0.5).



Check the attributes on the probes

Sensor strength on Core Probes = 40 / Combat probes = 20

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.07.20 19:40:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Cpt Steo
Well first of, if you only have astrometrics 2, that isn't great, you should train up for cov-ops(10% scan strength per level) and get astrometric range finding(10% scan strength per level) and Astrometric Pinpointing(-10% scan deviation).

I have all these skills to 4 and I can scan down any site 60 secs or less




And don't forget the Gravity Capacitor rig Cool

ROXGenghis
Perkone
Posted - 2009.07.20 19:50:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Goose Ryder
Originally by: Some Advisor
Originally by: Goose Ryder
Core probes have 2x the strength.


iam under the impression that combat/core/deep space have the *SAME* strength in the same range of 0.5AU - 32AU (combat only can go down 0.5).



Check the attributes on the probes

Sensor strength on Core Probes = 40 / Combat probes = 20


Some Advisor was actually correct. Base probe strength doesn't tell the whole story. You only need core probes when you can't get a hit at 0.5 AU.

XICD7
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.20 20:43:00 - [12]
 

I went in a Heron that I get a 25% bonus to scan strength because of skills, still couldn't get a hit. I guess he actual object has a small signal?

Wilson Phillips
Posted - 2009.07.20 20:54:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Goose Ryder
Originally by: Some Advisor
Originally by: Goose Ryder
Core probes have 2x the strength.


iam under the impression that combat/core/deep space have the *SAME* strength in the same range of 0.5AU - 32AU (combat only can go down 0.5).



Check the attributes on the probes

Sensor strength on Core Probes = 40 / Combat probes = 20


Sensor strength is the strength of the probe at minimum range.

Core 40 str / .25 AU.
Combat 20 str / .5 AU

For each bump up to the next AU - strength is halved. So Cores @ .5 AU are 20 str, identical to Combat. 2 AU - all probes are the same strength as Deep Space Probes.

All probes are equal strength at the same range. The only benefit of core probes are that they allow you to go to a smaller minimum range and hence have a higher probing strength at that minimum range.

If you only need to get down to the 2 AU range, you can use the deep space probes.
If you only need to get down to the .5 AU range, you can use combat probes.

XICD7
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.20 21:07:00 - [14]
 

So guys... what can I do to help this besides skills? This si seriously making me mad. I have a 25% bonus and still nothing can be scanned past like 10%. Does this mean the yhave a low signature? And if so, could I go to another system and hit them in like 5 minutes? Am I reading it right or no?

Celia Therone
Posted - 2009.07.20 21:52:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Celia Therone on 20/07/2009 21:53:19
Originally by: XICD7
So guys... what can I do to help this besides skills? This si seriously making me mad. I have a 25% bonus and still nothing can be scanned past like 10%. Does this mean the yhave a low signature? And if so, could I go to another system and hit them in like 5 minutes? Am I reading it right or no?


Some sites, especially grav sites, tend to have very low signal strengths and you can barely get a 100% hit on them in a covert ops at 0.25au. (However hardly anyone actually cares about these sites given current ore prices.) So move around a few systems and you'll probably find something easier to scan.

You haven't really told us very much about the site or if you've tried numerous different systems and continued to have the same problem. Hi, low, zero sec?

If you have a 25% bonus to scanning from your frigate then you have frigate V and could train for a covert ops and get it to III pretty quickly, which would give you a better bonus.

You can fit Gravity Capacitor Upgrade rigs (+10% strength each, you can probably fit 2) but it might be worth waiting until the next expansion when they'll make small GCU's available for frigates at a fraction of the current cost.

You can fit a Sisters of Eve core probe launcher for a 5% bonus. This is kindof expensive for what it gives you though.

You can use Sisters of Eve core probes for a 5% strength bonus (this is much cheaper than the launcher and a good deal as long as 10 million isk doesn't seem like a lot of money).

You can fit a variety of probe implants. Sisters of Eve loyalty store has some of them. I wouldn't bother as these really are very expensive and you can do fine just by training up your skills some more.

Btw, unless you're watching a movie or something 10-20 minutes is a really long time to find a plex. :o

Kva Plexcha
Gallente
Doing You Right
Posted - 2009.07.20 21:53:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Kva Plexcha on 20/07/2009 21:54:12
Originally by: K'uata Sayus
Because of the "even a friggin' noob can scan out everything with minimal skills so I've wasted all that time training exploration" threads, the difficulty of finding sites have been stealthily increased.




I suspected this and God I hope its correct ...

OP what are your other scanning skills at - I have been exploring for awhile and you need decent skills, cov op ships, rigs, whatever helps, in order to get the really low signals to 100% (in a reasonable amount of time) - again what are all your scan skills at?

XICD7
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.20 22:35:00 - [17]
 

I have astrometrics 2, almost at 3. Now I can train for cov ops, but don't I have to train cloaking 4 first to be able to use cov ops efficiently? I can get cruiser 5 and fly a tech 3 before I do that.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.07.20 23:08:00 - [18]
 

Since everything is combat-related in EVE, the efficiency and boosts to scanning are more intended to increase scanning speed than to determine the outcome.

In a way, if there is a radar or gravi site in a system that is worth ISK, then that is still a form of PVP if there are two interests there looking to exploit it.

The skills and boosts from the better Sisters gear, ship model, and rigs, means you will get it faster.

I have seen some cases of radar sites that after hours of creeping the cluster inwards, still does not go above something like 99.06 percent.
But most of this is about speed and competition. The higher skills and buffs means one less step of having to narrow the AU ranges down and adjust the cluster inward for the overlap - and this can take up to 30 seconds.

but in PVP, it can be even worse. Because running two clusters of 4, if you run a wide cluster with a 32AU radius and your skills are up there, you can get a fix on a position and then move the smaller cluster in on top of it, with a much wider AU meaning a wide overlap zone (the box as I like to call it) and get a 100 percent warpable hit in one scsan with the narrow cluster, meaning you can warp the cluster out soon enough that even the more diligent target on a directional scanner would miss the combat probes. The end result is that the intended target gets armageddon (or perhaps AN Armageddon) dropped on his head and never sees it coming. Indeed THAT is the reward for having Sisters Probes and Level 5 in all related skills, the covops with GraV Caps, and the Virtue Implants. Sure the guy w ithout all that WILL find what they are looking for except for the hardest of the hard site, but it's the speed of everything else that matters more.

Celia Therone
Posted - 2009.07.20 23:44:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: XICD7
I have astrometrics 2, almost at 3. Now I can train for cov ops, but don't I have to train cloaking 4 first to be able to use cov ops efficiently? I can get cruiser 5 and fly a tech 3 before I do that.


If you have cloaking 1 then you can use a prototype cloaking device. This lets you cloak just as well as any other cloak, except that you can't warp with it engaged.

At cloaking 4 you can fit a covert ops cloaking device which lets you warp cloaked.

There is no denying that warping cloaked is nice and safer than warping and then cloaking on arrival. This is especially noticeable at gate camps. However I wandered around low sec for ages in a covert ops & regular cloak and did fine. (Before accidentally warping into a pos' guns and getting one-shotted, and that had a lot more to do with incompetence/ignorance than cloak type.)

TlDr: Get a covert ops, put a sucky cloak on it and then be careful.

XICD7
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.21 01:26:00 - [20]
 

I guess I'll train for cov ops then.

Vorll Minaaran
Posted - 2009.07.21 09:07:00 - [21]
 

hi,
when you scan in high sec, a T1 astrometric frigate, all astro skills at lvl3 and a core probe launcher+core porbes is enough to scan down almost all site.
if you find a sig with a 32 AU probe at 0,35-0,40 % you'll find it in 4-5 min, but you have to play with your probes a bit.

so in high sec you dont need covops and expensive fit, implant etc.

but as others says: better skills and equipment is better :)

Albert O'Balsam
Posted - 2009.07.21 09:11:00 - [22]
 

placement of the initial probe is in my experience key to quickly finding the site. If the red globe is large - then the target is far away and it will take longer to find.

Canute Minealot
Posted - 2009.07.21 09:29:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Albert O'Balsam
placement of the initial probe is in my experience key to quickly finding the site. If the red globe is large - then the target is far away and it will take longer to find.


Look if there is a planet where the red globe is, then arrange you next probes around this planet.
Don't forget Signatures are around planets.

Kayna Eelai
Gallente
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2009.07.21 09:57:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 21/07/2009 09:57:25
my alt can probe out anything with just 1-2 lvl in probing support skills and sitting in a non-bonused frigatte
just takes longer to get a 100% hit. there is not a single 0.0 plex i haven't been able to probe down yet with that alt. but i always end up at 0.25AU and have to adjust the probes very well.

my main (with nearly all to lvl4, sister launcher and rigged covops) probes down the stuff like 5x times faster and i usually get 100% hits at 1AU or 0,5AU, sometimes even at 2AU.
with core probes ofc.

one thing i can not probe down, regardless what character i use, are pvp interceptors or logistics. and cruisers give me a hard time, but i end up getting them.

THIS is what got me started after apocrypha and i've done it like this since then.

Dandy Lyon
Posted - 2009.07.22 13:19:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 21/07/2009 09:57:25
my alt can probe out anything with just 1-2 lvl in probing support skills and sitting in a non-bonused frigatte
just takes longer to get a 100% hit. there is not a single 0.0 plex i haven't been able to probe down yet with that alt. but i always end up at 0.25AU and have to adjust the probes very well.

my main (with nearly all to lvl4, sister launcher and rigged covops) probes down the stuff like 5x times faster and i usually get 100% hits at 1AU or 0,5AU, sometimes even at 2AU.
with core probes ofc.

one thing i can not probe down, regardless what character i use, are pvp interceptors or logistics. and cruisers give me a hard time, but i end up getting them.

THIS is what got me started after apocrypha and i've done it like this since then.


I watched the video. Why did the author fool around with adding 1 probe at a time? Please tell me it was for dimenstration.

XICD7
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.22 14:03:00 - [26]
 

That's what I do and i find it much, much easier. I can get sigs down to 75% with just two probes sometimes. Most f the time though it's around 45%.

Kva Plexcha
Gallente
Doing You Right
Posted - 2009.07.22 19:09:00 - [27]
 

XICD7 ..... Am I to understand that you only have Astrometrics to lvl 2 atm, and you are using a T1 frigate?

Can you please tell me the following ....
1) What is your Astrometrics Pinpointing skill at?
2) What is your Astrometrics Aquistion skill at?
3) What is your Astrometrics Rangefinding skill at?
4) What is your Frigate skill at?

5) Are you using a Sisters expanded Core Probe Launcher or a regular Expanded Core Probe Launcher.
6) Are you using Sisters Core Probes, or regular core probes?
7) Do you have any Gravity Capacitor Rigs installed on your Frigate you scan with?


If I had to guess I would say you have none of the support scanning skills yet, you arent using sisters equipment, no rigs, and are at Frigate V?

Even with having Astrometrics III right now, and Frigate V, you are lucky if you have even tracked anything down to date. Previously were you able to track down all sites to 100% or just a few, and now you cant get any?... Again , if you answer the questions directly, it will help the forum browsers to determine your actual scan ability, and then maybe we can help you a bit more specifically.

Also, are you using a Dell laptop by any chance?


 

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