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Norsten
Posted - 2004.09.28 08:42:00 - [1]
 

Too easily exploitable

Both sides should agree to war


MadGaz
Temptation inc.
Posted - 2004.09.28 08:43:00 - [2]
 

no.

Aneu Angellus
Caldari
VoTF.
Posted - 2004.09.28 08:44:00 - [3]
 

dis-agree

Meehan
Viziam
Posted - 2004.09.28 08:48:00 - [4]
 

No

Dai'mon
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.09.28 08:59:00 - [5]
 

Big fat no.

meowcat
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.28 09:02:00 - [6]
 

A vast, towering "NO" that blocks out the sun.

Speknek
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.09.28 09:28:00 - [7]
 

Declaring war is no exploit.

Solloeb
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2004.09.28 09:51:00 - [8]
 

sorry but its no fair on smaller corps with out any alliances when a big corp not to mention any names (Biomass Cartel) just wage war on you for fun and ask 100 mil or a battleship and they wont wage war now when a new corp is full of new players and dont really wanna join an alliance just wanna be for ur self its a bit ironic when there are the bigger pirate corps just randomly picking somone and start to ruin every one in the corps day

heres what happend biomass cartel declares war on my corp where a new corp building up nothing of interest to these biomass people i mean their experienced pvpers where peacefull miners trying to build the corp up and then biomass come along and ruin this in the end killing the corp off becouse we dont have any thing to fight them with nor do we have any thing to give them ive tried to tell them this we have filed a pettition havent come back yet any awnser tho

problem is people tell us to run away disband the corp use alts to mine ignore them when their activly camping u for 24 hours they killed and podded 2 of our members allready one of witch had just gotten her omen wasnt insured a new player who had just extended trial period now u say stay in npc corp and people cant wage war on you why shuld this be i mean ok it keeps you safe but wheres the fun in just being in a npc corp when u can build up and try make a living in your own one please dont get me wrong pvp is most likley fun but not when the corp is new and just trying to kick off im not whining but its a bit unfair when a corp of experienced pvp pirates start harrassing a corp thats new and just kicking off with the member count just mostly newer eve players

Marcus Aurelius
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.09.28 09:58:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 28/09/2004 10:08:32
It's called extortion, and relatively new corporations are a prime target yes. Best ways to handle an extortion attempt ?
1. call in Seleene and pay more, but keep your honour.
2. call their bluff and denounce them on the forums like this.
3. move house to somewhere in the south, where biomass isnt frequently seen and most likely will not bother following for the price of a single battleship.

All in all, you either deal with it or dissolve and die. Making wars consensual is not an option.

It's a difficult subject since extortion can present a serious hurdle to corporations like yours on one hand, but removing the ability to extort (by making wars consensual only) would change the game too much.

Non-consensuality of combat is an important tool within Eve.
It is a main tool in the longterm warfare between large corporations.

In my opinion Eve sees too little real longterm warfare. A target should be decided on, objectives determined, and any availiable means utilised in achieving them. If that means you need to prevent a corporation from functioning that is where Empire wars come in. Without them noone can prevent corporations from functioning, making any war pointless.

Grimster
Reikoku
Posted - 2004.09.28 10:02:00 - [10]
 

Change corp war - atm no.

You still have choices.

1. Grab yourself a bunch of frigs/cruisers - you can kill BS's
2. Move away.
3. Hire some mercs to do the fighting (Bodycount Inc. have a great track record)

With Shiva stuff will change and war will get expensive - enjoy it while you can.

Mirelath
Posted - 2004.09.28 10:08:00 - [11]
 

I see it from both sides. I dont see why a new corp of relatively new pepole should have to be declared war upon just for the sake of it, especially when they stand no chance at all - IE frigates with few modules and few skills VS gangs and gangs of battleships with great skills.

I also see that wars may need to go on in empire space, and that if both sides had to declare, it wouldn't really work.

Therefore, couldnt a simple solution such as allowing newly formed corps a grasce period (2 weeks -> month or something) in which they will be free from war declerations. To try and prevent explotion, they also cannot declare war on anyone during this period either.

Just an idea.

Solloeb
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2004.09.28 10:21:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Solloeb on 28/09/2004 10:23:10
guys theres a problem with all this we cant fight them we aint got money for it if we culd of payed them not to attack us i think we wuld of and if we aint got money to pay them off i dont really think we have money to hire mercs


and they arent bluffing they allready killed 2 of our memebers

Moneta
Evolution
Posted - 2004.09.28 10:24:00 - [13]
 

Move your assets to the south of empire space and forget about biomass for three weeks.

Within 3 weeks that war will have been retracted.
As Marcus said, biomass operate in the northern parts of eve mainly, which means going to the southwest will be too much trouble for killing a few frigs and a cruiser.

Oh, and biomass, going into war with a new corp for 100 million ? You guys must be desperate.

Grimster
Reikoku
Posted - 2004.09.28 10:26:00 - [14]
 

Dude - move.

I know that it sounds unfair or whatever but if you're unwilling to jump into a combat frig and do the business, can't afford to hire mercs (some corps will provide a "free" service against real pirate corps). Coming over here makes it sound like a "whine" and the cheese quotes will soon flow. Wink

Keep mobile - they'll soon get sick of looking for you and find an easier target.

Eve is big.

Solloeb
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2004.09.28 10:39:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Solloeb on 28/09/2004 10:41:37
Edited by: Solloeb on 28/09/2004 10:41:31
*sigh* if its the only way i guess moving will be our only option

thanks for any advice u culd give any way folks greatly aprechiated

Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.09.28 10:44:00 - [16]
 

Well, the best option would actually be moving your production and mining people to the south and keeping a fwe fighting-oriented people in frgis in the north.

If you have a chance to fight some reasonably veteran fighters take it with both hands, cause in 3 months you are going to look back and think it was the best time of your early game experience.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2004.09.28 12:24:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Solloeb
sorry but its no fair on smaller corps with out any alliances when a big corp not to mention any names (Biomass Cartel) just wage war on you for fun
[snip]



Rent an office a long way away from your main operations and make it your HQ. Chances are they'll spend a few days trying to camp it and/or the area and will give up through boredom.

Raem Civrie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2004.09.28 13:27:00 - [18]
 

Quote:
1. call in Seleene and pay more, but keep your honour.
2. call their bluff and denounce them on the forums like this.
3. move house to somewhere in the south, where biomass isnt frequently seen and most likely will not bother following for the price of a single battleship.


We started in this, extorting corporations for money. The reason being that alot of our guys were using new characters (beta players returning) and had to adjust to changes. No-one was going to hire us. So we wiped out a couple of corps who all refused to pay (no-one did, and we wiped them out. Literally. They don't exist anymore), and suddenly we got a bit of notoriety. Now we're happily contracted most of the time, but we target larger empire corps from time to time that do something to tick us off. It's not always personal, not always professional. But we always go for the kill.

As for targeting one-man corps and up to 20-man corps, I don't see the point. Most of the time will be spent camping, and there will be no actual challenge or fighting.

Norsten
Posted - 2004.09.28 15:21:00 - [19]
 

What is the purpose of condorde if not to protect those who wish to reside in empire space, a corporation of vets should not be allowed to attack whom ever they please with no intervention from concorde.

If an NY gang, politics aside, decided to go around killing employees of a particular company, again politics aside, the police would intervene and protect those who needed it.

There is NO difference between killing someone at random in empire space and declaring war on a a corp of your choice and killing off its members right under the noses of Concorde, apart from the fact the concorde will protect you in one, and not the other

Doesnt make sense to me and I beleive this to be a mistake on CCP's part not to alter it. Whats secure about secure space? nothing.

Tolkh
Posted - 2004.09.28 16:10:00 - [20]
 

I don't know much about wars. I was wondering if there is a limit on the number of war a corp can have ? Is there a fee to start a war ? to maintain it ? Are pirate corps basically declaring wars on everyone ? There must be a limit of some sort or I'm missing something.

Mang0o
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2004.09.28 17:33:00 - [21]
 

Cool im a bad bad boy!

Danks
Caldari
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
Posted - 2004.09.28 17:39:00 - [22]
 

War is fine the way it is.


Mang0o
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2004.09.28 17:54:00 - [23]
 

can cpp plz leave one thing we pvpers have.. not make the hole game to a ****ing carebear game!!!!!! MadYARRRR!!

Raven Norsca
Posted - 2004.09.28 18:24:00 - [24]
 

Solleb if what your saying is true than I would have everyone in your corporation file a harrasment petiton against the players doing this

This is not extoriton as you have nothing to give. this is not a war as you can't fight them. Your only option shouldn't be to run to another system, or to abandon your corp.

Bio-mass is just harrassing your players.

The rest is up to CCP as to wether or not they care enough to put a stop to this bull****

Kerixi
Gallente
Fuzzpuss Inc.
Posted - 2004.09.28 18:53:00 - [25]
 

Sollo, I gave you a hand yesterday cause I was being nice and personally I do think Biomass are harrassing your corp.....BUT....you've been asking many people in many corps for help and advice now and they've all told you the same things, file petitions, move, join an alliance, disband etc etc. If you choose not to follow this advice then sorry but I dun think Biomass are gonna stop. And they certainly wont if you and your corp keep being stupid enough to smack talk them at every opportunity. No-one likes a wiseass and if you cant accept and try people's advice then pretty soon we're all gonna stop helping.

Solloeb
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2004.09.28 20:44:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Solloeb on 28/09/2004 21:29:00
i have filed a pettition gm's sais they cannot help us they just say the same as you guys :(

any way we currently considering our options the ones u gave us so we gonna decide tommorow or something on what to do about this

i thank every one whos been supportive now we just have to see what happens especially Kerixi who helped me out of a system snuggled my thorax safe and sound out of there Gofur and Tenno i Salute u all will tell ya all what has happend tommorow :)

Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.09.28 21:55:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Solloeb
Edited by: Solloeb on 28/09/2004 21:29:00
i have filed a pettition gm's sais they cannot help us they just say the same as you guys :(

any way we currently considering our options the ones u gave us so we gonna decide tommorow or something on what to do about this

i thank every one whos been supportive now we just have to see what happens especially Kerixi who helped me out of a system snuggled my thorax safe and sound out of there Gofur and Tenno i Salute u all will tell ya all what has happend tommorow :)


Ok, some free extra advice. Just things that you would have to learn the hard way unless someone else tells you about it:

1. Pirate corps declaring war on you can have 5 wars active at any time that they initaiated. If they are in this buisiness that means they should consider their initaiated wars (oftenly called war slots) as being a commodity worth not being thrown around at just any target. They will decide wether or not to actively pursue the war against you based on some factors like profitability, how much they dislike you, how easy you are to find, how easy you are to kill and how bored they are at the moment.

This means that if you can make sure they have no easy targets around by either hiding or moving and can make sure profitability is nonexistant and that they have no particular reason to dislike you mroe then others, they will retract the war quite fast in favour of a new target.

2. NEVER smacktalk against a vet corp like biomass. They dont like it, and as you noticed they have the power to make your life pretty miserable. Actually, unless you know the corp you are smacktalking, dont smacktalk ANY corp. You don't know who the vets are, a new corp does not mean new players.

3. Don't spend 3 days deciding what to do in a situation like this. Decide in 3 hours what you are going to do about a war declaration. You have 3 options: pay, fight, move. It's not that difficult is it ? If you can't/won't pay and can't win the fight, you move.

4. Always have an office stocked with some basic production gear at the other side of the galaxy. Do not make it your HQ, do not go there too often and get noticed. Take a system a good way from the highway but still in high sec space.
This is your hiding place, where you can spend the two weeks it takes for your enemy to retract the war doing the same things you did before, just elsewhere.

With Shiva the war system is going to change. Having alot of open wars will cost the initiating party isk that they can't earn back in fun or otherwise if the target is a corp like yours. So you will be seeing these kind of wars decrease in a month or so.

Znaei
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2004.09.28 22:00:00 - [28]
 

The war system should not need to have both parties agree on the war. But it would be feasible to allow the corp that has been war dec'd, to withdraw the war. That process could/should take 4-7 days to complete.

Charim Tradiv
Posted - 2004.09.29 01:18:00 - [29]
 

hey ppl .. it happens in real life.
One nation can bully a defenceless nation for their resources.

it's pretty much fair in Eve too since .. Eve is played by humans.

what we really need now .. is a skill to fly Iteron V filled with nukes into their fleets :D

Glory to the Freedom Fighters :D

woodman az
Gallente
United Space Aillance USA
Posted - 2004.09.29 01:32:00 - [30]
 

I would like to form a corp with my alt but can't afford a war.

why can CCP make it so each corp has to have 10 or more players before a war can be declared.

that way us freelancer that only have 2 -4 toons can have fun too.


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