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blankseplocked Black Ops BS is trully BS
 
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Countessa Bella
Posted - 2009.07.16 23:34:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Countessa Bella on 16/07/2009 23:36:00
So it is currently the longest training sub capital in the game, yet no one uses them... because:
1. They are expensive
2. They are flimsy paper tanks
3. (most importantly) they cannot warp cloaked

This ship has the capability of dramatically effecting the future of alliance wars.... Cyno jamming has practically killed cap ship combat, and relegated it to major power blocs.

Therefore the ability to jump into a system that is jammed with some BO's is a fun idea, but it stops there... No one wants to jump into a system where there movements can be reported in a slow aligning BS with crap tank.

Suggestions to eliminate this issue:
1. Get rid of the Black Ops Battleship. If it is going to be this useless, you might as well.
2. Give it a covert ops cloak so movements may be masked.
3. Make a Tech 2 carrier designed as a covert ops flagship that can jump off of one full load of the BO's jump engine, or jump normally via cyno. This would actually give the BO a useful role to bring in a capital ship as flag ship for an operative fleet. So 10 BO's could bring in 10 carriers... suddenly cyno jam does not guarantee your safety.

option 3 continued:
Skill reqs for Tech 2 Carrier:
1. Capital Ships V
2. Racial Carrier V
3. Covert operations V
4. Recon V
5. Black Ops V
6. Lone Wolf (new skill for this special carrier) I (rank 10)

copy bonuses off of Tech I Carrier, and add for every level of lone wolf:
1. Stereotypical racial benefit 5% per level to tank
2. Stereotypical racial benefit 5% per level to a fleet focused role
3. 100% cloak velocity per level

Role Bonus
No speed penalty for cloak, as the ship has enough power to maintain the cloak efficiently.

It should be noted the intent of this ship is as a mobile base of operations for long term operations in hostile space. A roaming HQ and resupply for harrasment fleets. Bonuses to racial sterotypes and tank should not exceed a point that ould make the ship too difficult to kill, yet it should be able to disengage from combat if it so desired, and the pilot was skilled/prepared.

Just a thought.. any feedback.

If you do not like it, take the time to offer an alternative as well.


Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.07.17 00:10:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 17/07/2009 00:13:30
You seem to be missing the crucial part where blackops can bridge recons, SBs and strategic cruisers to a covert cyno field. The blackops doesnt even need to jump with the fleet, so kinda weak tank (if you can call a BS tank weak anyway) is a non-issue.

They are the perfect tool for ambushing the enemy, just need to use them properly, what a lot of people do to great effect. Just because you dont know how doesnt mean they are bad.

Blackops are quite ok, and once they get the promised fuel bay they gonna be KICKASS.

Shepard Book
Posted - 2009.07.17 00:29:00 - [3]
 

IMO each one of the BOs should receive 1 more slot for tanking and a cov ops cloak and be done with it. It just makes since to me once you look at the price of the ship and looking at what had to be done to bombers to make them viable.

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.17 00:48:00 - [4]
 

The BO is fine as it is.

The added fuel bay, which is on Sisi right now, will make it even better.

This ship isn't for everyone, and obviously isn't for you, so save yourself a lot of grief, and don't buy one, dont' train for one, and find something else to do.

Just my advice... Wink


1600 RT
Posted - 2009.07.17 07:20:00 - [5]
 

first you complain about BO price and then you purpose a T2 carrier? do you have a idea of how much will cost a ship where is its T1 variant cost already 8-900 mil?

ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2009.07.17 10:57:00 - [6]
 

t2 carriers as on the closed beta server are simply designed instead of fighters to deploy piloted Player piloted) corvettes

This is the first in a series of prototype Amarr attack craft designed for deployment from Carriers.

Database description

By the looks of it they are between cruisers and battlecruisers in size possibly but im guessing its a while off before we see em ( t2 carriers flagship) unsure about t2 dread

Bladen Kerst
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.07.17 11:11:00 - [7]
 

What is the capactity of fuel bay on SiSi atm?

Pvt Public7
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.07.17 13:06:00 - [8]
 

I agree that they need a covops cloak. Every other class has one.

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.17 13:16:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Bladen Kerst
What is the capactity of fuel bay on SiSi atm?


1000m3 when it first showed up, but I have a feeling this might change.

I haven't been able to check since the most recent patch because the "right click" funtion is broke again.


Teavan
First CityWide Change Bank
Posted - 2009.07.17 15:39:00 - [10]
 

I once heard a man say:

"You're doing it wrong."

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.07.17 16:38:00 - [11]
 

Day In The Life Of A Black Ops Pilot

1) Instruct CovOps / Recon to sneak through gate camp.

2) Request CovCyno deployment behind enemy lines.

3) Assume position in nearest safe system (friendly / 0.5)

4) Bridge covert fleet into enemy territory.

5) Return to base, and take a nap.


Black Ops should never come close to the actual battlefield. The lack of a CovOps Cloak, and the inability to Jump back to High Sec, means they are totally boned on the return trip.

Even for Low/Null ops, they should hunker down in a deep safe and gang boost if anything.

SuckySycky5dolla
Posted - 2009.07.17 16:50:00 - [12]
 

yes to cov ops cloak
yes to t2 carrier that would only be used to deploy man-piloted ships ( that means your pod sits inside the carrier )
yes to BO giving gang bonuses, maybe make it a command ship instead, it has the tank of one anyways

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2009.07.17 17:28:00 - [13]
 

"no one uses them" is plain wrong, what you meant to say was "few people use them"

But since when was that a factor of balance? According to you it's the fault of their high price, flimsy tanks and inability to warp cloaked.

Ships that fall under the same category, but see heavy usage: Freighters
Ships that fall under the same category, but see limited usage: Titans

Ergo, your comment is meaningless.

You belong to a long line of ignorant players who think a ship is broken because it isn't a swiss army pimpmobile you see at every gate. Black ops tactics are niche to begin with, so there is nothing wrong if you don't see them used everywhere. If you had alts in every backwater alliance system taking surveys of how often cloaking gangs cyno'd in, I might be inclined to take this seriously. BO could be the most common form of deep 0.0 PVP in EVE and you wouldn't know it until the player population reached some general consensus.

Still, we have these threads. Mainly because the majority of people who want to use Black Ops have never actually done black ops tactics before, or have a competent team of people to do it with, or any particular enemy to use it on. But they think it sounds sexy and romantic, and figure "well it IS a black ops ship, if I buy one I should be able to black ops!@"

It's like mission runners who buy dreadnaughts and realize it's a large, expensive toy that doesn't do much. Well duh?

My counter-proposal is the absence of any change to the purpose, usage or capabilities of Black Ops.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.07.17 17:35:00 - [14]
 

I have used Panther successfully, it has a lot of potential due to speed

I really dislike the whole jump bridging idea. I don't like POS and Titan bridges either. They take away from strategic combat - people no longer have to move thru the gates, don't get exposed to intelligence gathering, don't get exposed to gate camps. They just bypass big parts of the gate to hot drop a gank and be gone with it.

How is a smart player supposed to know just how many ships his enemy will be hot dropping on him? are there any viable game tools? I think there are none viable - short of alliance spys.

Kenpotchi
Posted - 2009.07.17 18:31:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Kenpotchi on 20/07/2009 05:43:34

Izztyrr Maemtor
Posted - 2009.07.17 18:58:00 - [16]
 

I agree with those who are saying that the OP may not exactly understand how to properly use a Black Ops battleship. But in thinking about it. It would be kind of nice if they could use a Covert Ops cloak.

NotNowKato
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.17 23:18:00 - [17]
 

CCP bring in the COV ops cloak guys, we have a 30M cruiser covert ops ship and we can't employ a covert ops cloak on a ship classed "black ops" black ops is supposed to be the mother of all sneaky things.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.07.18 06:38:00 - [18]
 

a carrier is a support ship that tends to perform too well in solo situations.

a flagship is a theorized ship designed to support entire fleets, or as wrongly viewed an op command ship with lots of guns and godly tank.

now you want to combine these two together, could be interesting make a true fleet leading capital. however any hope of that left when you called the skill 'lone wolf' indicating it was clearly gonna go the wrong way.

Abyss Wyrm
Caldari
We Don't Need This POS Anyway
Posted - 2009.07.18 17:09:00 - [19]
 

Oh one of those endless posts about "why my BO isnt like a Chuck Noris?"

Originally by: Countessa Bella
Edited by: Countessa Bella on 16/07/2009 23:36:00
So it is currently the longest training sub capital in the game, yet no one uses them... because:
1. They are expensive
2. They are flimsy paper tanks
3. (most importantly) they cannot warp cloaked

This ship has the capability of dramatically effecting the future of alliance wars.... Cyno jamming has practically killed cap ship combat, and relegated it to major power blocs.

Therefore the ability to jump into a system that is jammed with some BO's is a fun idea, but it stops there... No one wants to jump into a system where there movements can be reported in a slow aligning BS with crap tank.

Suggestions to eliminate this issue:
1. Get rid of the Black Ops Battleship. If it is going to be this useless, you might as well.
2. Give it a covert ops cloak so movements may be masked.
3. Make a Tech 2 carrier designed as a covert ops flagship that can jump off of one full load of the BO's jump engine, or jump normally via cyno. This would actually give the BO a useful role to bring in a capital ship as flag ship for an operative fleet. So 10 BO's could bring in 10 carriers... suddenly cyno jam does not guarantee your safety.

option 3 continued:
Skill reqs for Tech 2 Carrier:
1. Capital Ships V
2. Racial Carrier V
3. Covert operations V
4. Recon V
5. Black Ops V
6. Lone Wolf (new skill for this special carrier) I (rank 10)

copy bonuses off of Tech I Carrier, and add for every level of lone wolf:
1. Stereotypical racial benefit 5% per level to tank
2. Stereotypical racial benefit 5% per level to a fleet focused role
3. 100% cloak velocity per level

Role Bonus
No speed penalty for cloak, as the ship has enough power to maintain the cloak efficiently.

It should be noted the intent of this ship is as a mobile base of operations for long term operations in hostile space. A roaming HQ and resupply for harrasment fleets. Bonuses to racial sterotypes and tank should not exceed a point that ould make the ship too difficult to kill, yet it should be able to disengage from combat if it so desired, and the pilot was skilled/prepared.

Just a thought.. any feedback.

If you do not like it, take the time to offer an alternative as well.


"So it is currently the longest training sub capital in the game, yet no one uses them... because:"
1)For good reason. Wolud be terrible if every nood will start fly BOs.
2)Because they dont need one. Will you ask to improve tank of blockade runner? Likely not. So same for BOes. if you are so stupid to bring BO in front lines, tis your sex problems...
3)They have amazing speed in cloak. And btw, i can ram the lowsecs on BO, and not even HIC with overboosted scanres will be able to catch me.
If you dont know how its work - tis your sex problems

"Suggestions to eliminate this issue:"
1)Ehm... so you ask to remove those AWESOME vesseles only because you cant figure out how to use them properly on you own??
2)No thank you, i prefere good sublight speed. Besides, tis now only ship with actual bonus to non-covert-cloak.
3)Why not T2 titan?? Lol, what a fantasies...

"option 3 continued"
...no comments : //

BO atm need only real boost. One is planned and we'll see it in august, BOs will have own fuel bay.
Second wouldnt been mentioned, but i hope its be fixed in future. Its about co-ops cyno unable to be placed in high sec space.
Since you cant bring capital via co-ops cyno, and only ships which'll be able to jump via jumpd drive/portal will be ship able to travel high secs normaly.
And since co-ops cyno now able to be placed in cyno-jammed system, i think devs also should give an option to place co-ops cyno in higssec space.

But for god sake plz dont:
Add weapon slots or weapon bonuses to BOes!
Dont add tank to it!
Dont reduce the cost of that ship!

That will make every 'casual' to fly those, and it'll be REAL death for them...

Cypherous
Minmatar
Lions of Judah Incorporated
Posted - 2009.07.20 14:10:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Rhohan
The BO is fine as it is.

The added fuel bay, which is on Sisi right now, will make it even better.

This ship isn't for everyone, and obviously isn't for you, so save yourself a lot of grief, and don't buy one, dont' train for one, and find something else to do.

Just my advice... Wink




Please tell me how big is said fuel bay, i don't have a SISI client at present but i'm dying to know how big it is >.<

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.20 16:03:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Cypherous

Please tell me how big is said fuel bay, i don't have a SISI client at present but i'm dying to know how big it is >.<


Still 1000m3, as is in post 9 above.


Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.07.20 16:20:00 - [22]
 

Black ops also need balancing between them.

Black ops since they are less tanky than T1 battleship they shoudl have at least the same DPS.

A ship that expensive and complex JUST to make bridges is a waste of time and effort. It needs to be moderately useful in combat.

Or they get a bit stronger.. or CCP reduces their production cost a bit. We need strong COMBAT t2 battleships. If not the BO.. then #!@*!$#(*!@#(!@*(#!@3 give usa proper tier 3 one!!! ok.. i have calmed down....

Cypherous
Minmatar
Lions of Judah Incorporated
Posted - 2009.07.20 16:30:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Rhohan
Originally by: Cypherous

Please tell me how big is said fuel bay, i don't have a SISI client at present but i'm dying to know how big it is >.<


Still 1000m3, as is in post 9 above.




Hmmm thats not a lot needs to be bigger to be really useful :(

Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution
Posted - 2009.07.20 16:47:00 - [24]
 

I beg the differ, people are using BlackOps its just not very widely used.

BlackOps are atm reserved for the people who dont have a problem paying 1-2billion for a sub cap ship and toy with it in PvP just like Nanoing use to be.

If you really wanted an edge with nano you had to go 1-2bill fits, problem was inflasion and everyone started using it.

I will give you that with the current way BO works they will not become widely used for quait some time, but i do think adding a fuel bay to them in the next patch will change how widely they are bieng used.

Alaboren
Posted - 2009.07.25 21:43:00 - [25]
 

BO needs help. gotta make traning for one worth it!


 

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