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silence
Posted - 2004.09.26 11:47:00 - [1]
 

don`t you think that if a player spends a month or over learning lv5 skills that the return would be much better than a measly 5% or less, make it worth our while spending all that time on learning please.

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.09.26 11:49:00 - [2]
 

It'd be nice to get maybe 7.5% or 10% for the level 5 skill.

I think THAT would bring about more specialization than these ridiculous specialization skills.

Marmota Montax
Posted - 2004.09.26 11:50:00 - [3]
 

I think its fair the way it is really.

It might only be 5% but the skill often allows players to go on to train "advanced" skills

eg. Drones 5 allows the use of Drone Interfacing to field many more drones.

or Refining 5 allows the use of Refine efficiency.

So from that point of view im cool with it.

Sally
Caldari
Posted - 2004.09.26 12:03:00 - [4]
 

Specialization skills enable you to get some bonus once you reached Level 5. That's cool.

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2004.09.26 12:04:00 - [5]
 

its ok how it is

Shlub
Caldari
Posted - 2004.09.26 12:06:00 - [6]
 

yeah a 10% for the last lvl would be cool but i'm not to fussed about having any changes

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2004.09.26 12:43:00 - [7]
 

Quote:
It might only be 5% but the skill often allows players to go on to train "advanced" skills

eg. Drones 5 allows the use of Drone Interfacing to field many more drones.


Yeah. That's a bonus in itself IMHO.

AvanCade
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2004.09.26 12:46:00 - [8]
 

LvL5 is usually useless on it self, but with the tech II guns and other items you will need more and more lvl5 skills.

Dianabolic
Reikoku
Posted - 2004.09.26 12:48:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: slothe
its ok how it is


Agreed.

The Sloth
Posted - 2004.09.26 15:32:00 - [10]
 

The system of diminished returns built into the skill system (the fact that it takes longer to train a skill from Level 4 to Level 5 than it does to train the from Level 3 to Level 4, for example) is what is needed to ensure a relatively equal playing field for those people that joined the game at a later date. This is neccessary to ensure that new players can continously join the game and not realise that their efforts are pointless and that they will never be able to compete.

That being said, older players will (almost) always have more skill points than newer players, yet the advantage these skill points gives them is minimal.

The advantage a veteran, or anyone else, has in training a skill to Level 5 is the ability to use higher Tech (i.e. Tech II) ships and modules, and to also train other skills that have the Level 5 as a pre-requisite, not just the few bonus percent.

The system should stay as it is. Very Happy


The Sloth.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2004.09.26 17:32:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: The Sloth
The system of diminished returns built into the skill system (the fact that it takes longer to train a skill from Level 4 to Level 5 than it does to train the from Level 3 to Level 4, for example) is what is needed to ensure a relatively equal playing field for those people that joined the game at a later date. This is neccessary to ensure that new players can continously join the game and not realise that their efforts are pointless and that they will never be able to compete.

That being said, older players will (almost) always have more skill points than newer players, yet the advantage these skill points gives them is minimal.

The advantage a veteran, or anyone else, has in training a skill to Level 5 is the ability to use higher Tech (i.e. Tech II) ships and modules, and to also train other skills that have the Level 5 as a pre-requisite, not just the few bonus percent.

The system should stay as it is. Very Happy


The Sloth.


Reading all the replies I was also going to say "Yeah some bonus to lvl 5 pls" but Sloth came up with a very good point, we all want this game to grow and new players (who are the blood to the "EVE body") need to be able to come to a reasonable lvl to compete with the vets.

Well that said, WE WANT MORE SPECIALISATION SKILLRazz, seriously adding specialisation in armor/shield tanking, missiles, EW, etc would be a nice idea IMHOVery Happy

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2004.09.26 17:56:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 26/09/2004 17:58:58
If the requirements for learning advanced skills were all changed to lvl5 of the mandatory skill instead of lvl4 as it is mostly these days people wouldn't feel entitled to a little extra for meeting the mere minimum.

CCP being generous with the skills has the scavengers coming back for a rectal chew.

Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2004.09.26 22:47:00 - [13]
 

There are 2 things I'd personally like to see:

1) More of the Lvl 5 time being moved to Lvl 4 (this difference is drastic).

2) A weighted skills bonus, i.e. you get a higher bonus the higher the level.

Take any +5%/Level skill as an example:
Level, Bonus, Total
1: +5% = 5%
2: +5% = 10%
3: +5% = 15%
4: +5% = 20%
5: +5% = 25%

Weighted it could be something like:
Level, Bonus, Total
1: +3% = 3%
2: +4% = 7%
3: +5% = 12%
4: +6% = 18%
5: +7% = 25%

S'Daria
Posted - 2004.09.27 00:51:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
2) A weighted skills bonus, i.e. you get a higher bonus the higher the level.

Take any +5%/Level skill as an example:
Level, Bonus, Total
1: +5% = 5%
2: +5% = 10%
3: +5% = 15%
4: +5% = 20%
5: +5% = 25%

Weighted it could be something like:
Level, Bonus, Total
1: +3% = 3%
2: +4% = 7%
3: +5% = 12%
4: +6% = 18%
5: +7% = 25%

A weighted skill bonus, like you suggested, will not benifit the newer player, rather they will be even more behind.

The way it is now, with diminishing returns, is a great system. Laughing

Phasics
Imperium Technologies
Posted - 2004.09.27 02:41:00 - [15]
 

I think some of your are missing the point on lv5

firstly its not only a 5% gain your getting. Many of the high tech gear requires you to have trained Lv5 to be able to use this ship, so that the bonus for trianing lv5 if often the use of equipment other people cant use.

Focusing mroe on the extra 5% bonus, while it dosent sound alot can make or break ship setups. I mean how often have u been setting up your ship only to come up short by 3cpu to fit that last large turret, if u had trained weapon upgrades to lv5 instead of lv4 it would be enough to allow u to sneak that last weapon on and make your perfect configuration.

And if u consider theos who have trained many lv5 skills say in gunnery the extra 5% on dmg, RoF, tracking, optimal range etc all adds up to a much larger bonus which in the end makes thier BS a hellovalot better than yours

IRONCLAD
Amarr
Posted - 2004.09.27 03:41:00 - [16]
 

from level 4 to level 5 its a long wait for a little change for allot of skills, allthough some do let you get access to advance skills.

Tolkh
Posted - 2004.09.27 07:25:00 - [17]
 

I think that lvl 5 is meant to be the speed bump that separates people in skill. New players will try to avoid lvl 5 because their time invested in other skills that are in the 1-3 range will benefit them faster, while old players will carefully choose wich skill to take to level 5 according to their priority. As we are seeing with the event of the new skills coming, people who wants to upgrade their character with the new stuff often needs skills in the lvl 5 range before they can proceed.

The benefit of the lvl 5 skill is that you are passed it and ready to learn a higher level skill that you wouldn't be able to learn otherwise.

Varia
Gallente
Posted - 2004.09.27 07:35:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Phasics
I think some of your are missing the point on lv5

firstly its not only a 5% gain your getting. Many of the high tech gear requires you to have trained Lv5 to be able to use this ship, so that the bonus for trianing lv5 if often the use of equipment other people cant use.

Focusing mroe on the extra 5% bonus, while it dosent sound alot can make or break ship setups. I mean how often have u been setting up your ship only to come up short by 3cpu to fit that last large turret, if u had trained weapon upgrades to lv5 instead of lv4 it would be enough to allow u to sneak that last weapon on and make your perfect configuration.

And if u consider theos who have trained many lv5 skills say in gunnery the extra 5% on dmg, RoF, tracking, optimal range etc all adds up to a much larger bonus which in the end makes thier BS a hellovalot better than yours


Agreed, although i've come 1 point short even with the damn skill at 5 Smile

Meorir
Posted - 2004.09.27 07:43:00 - [19]
 

Advanced learning skills have the prereq. of the 'previous' skill at lvl5, as seen on Entropy:>

Meo

silence
Posted - 2004.09.27 21:12:00 - [20]
 

Well i have read all your comments with there pros and cons and i still feel that the lv5 should still give a better return, the argument about giving new players a chance is a falicy there is no way in hell they are going to catch up with the experienced players who have been playing for 10 months or over a year, it will take them that time to get where you are now so where will you be in two years or more from now, come on guys and gals be practical.

Tokka Konnair
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2004.09.27 23:09:00 - [21]
 


honestly Silence you're almost as bad as Waah (the one who suggested CCP allow paying money for instant skill levels)

Quote:
Hakera> pain-Mimic> Have you ever thought of giving new players a skill-training bonus ? A player that joins Eve is about 1,5 years behind the "first ones" and with new Techs and items they have big problems using all that stuff that was inserted in Eve...

Oveur> No, they will not get a skill training bonus especially, it's kind of built into the skill system that a player can easily reach lvl 4 in most skills

Oveur> we are however releasing more and more attribute boosters, and in the next content update on the 28th, you'll see the advanced learning skills

Oveur> this helps newer player reach faster the lvl 4's and occasional lvl 5's while the advanced players can chug into the high end lvl 5's

Oveur> other than that, we won't enforce a accelerated path for new players

Oveur> oh, and they will be available on the market



this is from the devchat here
diminishing returns on skillpoints is deliberate
it's not an origonal idea .... almost all games that use an idea of character developement going back all the way to the first incarnation of dungeons and dragons use an exponential level system where you need more and more experience to 'level up'

CCP are not going to undo a tried and tested system

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2004.09.28 00:45:00 - [22]
 

like it as it is myself.

silence
Posted - 2004.09.28 07:11:00 - [23]
 

i don`t expect eve to change the lv5 system, what i am saying is, eg,lg hybrid lv5 when trained is finished so there should be a better return, i know that having lv5 will help with the next skill, so for super dooper lg hybrid you train that to lv5 and then it is finished also, so the end of the skill should be a better return. end of subject.


 

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