open All Channels
seplocked Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions
blankseplocked Where is the mercenary alliance?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic

Hobblah
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.07.01 08:29:00 - [61]
 

My 2 cents on the subject. (I have been out of merc business for one and half years now so lot might have changed)

Who is willing to pay
One of the main points in the whole thing is who in the end is willing to pay for mercenaries and how much?

If we take alliance breaking level effort with POS warfare and long campaing time, the realistic price of merc contract is in level that wery few are willing to pay. Lets say few weeks of taking severeignity could be easily worth 100bil or more. Who would you trust with this amount of money or would you rather do it yourself or die trying? This of course assumes that the mercs are neutral and hence not your friends.

As far as I'm aware, the merc outfits do fighting mostly for fun and charge fraction of realistic price to keep the business profitable.

On smaller scale, I have a feeling that larger alliances think it is bad for PR to be hiring mercs, which makes these harrassement contracts rare. Or at least rare compared to the amount of mercs around.

Role of mercenaries
The one thing where I think mercs would be best suited is tipping the scales of fights or conflicts.

Instead of hiring merc alliance to do all the work, just hire mercs for single fight or for initial attack. If your POS is set to reinforced, call mercs to suprice the enemies when they try to take it down. Or if you attack hostile space, get one merc corp to harass them for week or two beforehand and then larger corp/alliance for the intitial couple of weeks of fighting.


Tikka
Caldari
Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner
Posted - 2009.07.01 08:41:00 - [62]
 

or just wait til ccp will change the way the Sov is working. The moment where you need to hit different targets without drawing to much effects from numbers, will be the day were mercs are an valid option.

Jimmy Duce
Gallente
Chaotic Tranquility
Posted - 2009.07.01 13:29:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Hobblah
words
No offense, it's not personal. Honest:D
Ach, how many of you theory crafters have taken down a single POS??? Me Jimmy Duce the supreme overlord of the entirety of the forces behind the elite pvp coalition known as Eugrana colition has taken down 4 large POSes. small and medium never interest me so I've never tried those. I have NEVER seen 10 cap ships in my life. The most was 6. And 5 were random losely associated people who were bored one day and were like hey I scanned a POS wanna seige it? We had no goals, no intention of profiting but with like 3-4 different Coalitions that weren't red to each other and 1 very very unfortunate corporation that thoght that it was a good idea to put like 20 small missles on a POS it went poof.

So YES, a mercenary can't "win" soverienty warfare at the current level of eve, but if 6 cap ships [3 of whiche were carriers] and a couple bored BSs/BCs could take down some random POS on a Satruday and still come back after the reinforced this time with mora dreads and less useless carriers [obvious troll to keep Atlas from wardecing me] What about 50 caps? Tell me if a merc corp manages to keep say 70 members for over a year, 0/ Noir [there is a dot somewhere but lazy and actaully haven't checked your numbers recently], tell me they can't be effective. Time zones will be very useful, but if they field even 30 dreads at a known "empty" time of even the strongest alliance they can easily reinforce 6 POSes in a night. And average POSes holding Sov? I've seen a system, in gemenate the most luctritave 0.0 system ever [yes troll again for those not keeping up], where 1 POS was holding sov. And my coalition that at the time could only field 3 caps reinforced it 2 times. Unfortunately at their "peak" time they could field 7 caps and like 18 BSs. While we could field 20 BSs, some were alts of the cap ship pilots and so...

/tl/dr [please what does this mean]
Mercs can't win 0.0, but they'd be a pain to fight against.

Wrayeth
Caldari
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2009.07.01 14:39:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Wrayeth on 01/07/2009 14:40:04
I'd say another reason why there are fewer real mercs these days hinges on the fact the war targets just refuse to undock anymore. EVE in general has become very risk-averse, more apt to do the "safe" thing than the "fun" thing. As such, whenever there's a possibility of risk, most people hide in station; this results in boredom on a massive level. The mercs can either sit there camping the station for hours with nothing to do, or they can ignore their merc contract entirely and go pew-pew other people.

Hobblah
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.07.01 15:01:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: Hobblah
words
No offense, it's not personal. Honest:D
Ach, how many of you theory crafters have taken down a single POS??? Me Jimmy Duce the supreme overlord of the entirety of the forces behind the elite pvp coalition known as Eugrana colition has taken down 4 large POSes. small and medium never interest me so I've never tried those. I have NEVER seen 10 cap ships in my life.


Do you really try to make difference between yourself and "theory crafters" like me by participating in four (4) killed POSes?

More on the topic, yes mercs can be pain to fight against but is that something anyone really wants to pay for? I agree that it is fairly easy to kill POSes of small allainces but then again, who wants to pay for killing weak targets?

What I'm after is actual merc corp or alliance instead of the multitude of random gankers who will do the same with or without getting paid.


Necronomicon
Caldari
The Weasels of Doom
Posted - 2009.07.01 15:07:00 - [66]
 

Being a merc was great fun while it lasted, empire contracts were usuallt stagant within a couple of days as targets would dry up, dock up or just not logon. 0.0 contracts became more difficult with the increase in titans, naplists etc.

KIA were under no illusions that when we moved to Geminate after Tortuga that our merc days were numbered, you simply cannot conduct a mercenary business and not expect blowback over time on your home space. The MC had a big buffer behind BoB from which to conduct their business, so there was a lot less risk.

I do miss the merc days, but the business and 'reward v risk' is simply not there any more.


blunter
Minmatar
FireTech
In Tea We Trust
Posted - 2009.07.01 15:18:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: blunter on 01/07/2009 15:17:42
Firetech and Friends will take your merc contracts and hassle the living crap outta those pesky pests that seem to stain your nice new home station.

Just sendz me allz your iskz....

On a serious note, who can actually admit to wanting to use a merc alliance for something they should be able to do themselves?

-Blunt

Jimmy Duce
Gallente
Chaotic Tranquility
Posted - 2009.07.01 15:27:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: blunter
Edited by: blunter on 01/07/2009 15:17:42
Firetech and Friends will take your merc contracts and hassle the living crap outta those pesky pests that seem to stain your nice new home station.

Just sendz me allz your iskz....

On a serious note, who can actually admit to wanting to use a merc alliance for something they should be able to do themselves?

-Blunt

Blunter can I haz a blue yet??? And please... don't let me troll ur people so easy. They are good pvpers [hence why I asked for the blue] but mentally... goonie like? Smart brain goons and the rest cannon fodder blobs? [works legal blah blah blah if I had a bigger blob I'd win]. Blunter can do it. I've fought against him. And lost p[see faul campign] He's the first merc I've EVER RECROMENDED {blue yet please???} my faction fitted ibis is stuck in grana.

Please re read my entire post. Mercs alone can't "win" a war, buut why lock down a singly system? {crap am I being trolled... great must stop the insomia it's breaking me done}

tl&dr blunter blue can I haz. No negotiations about no piracy cause you the CEO of so called antipirate podded a member of mine knowing fully well that high sec podding is concordable hence pirace way worse that low sec piracy. So no restrictions blue or go suck an egg and we'll keep running from ur massive blop until 2 years when I get a director in your silly little alliance and push the button. Yes goonies me kissing up can I has invite and ratting rights??? [screw ratting fully gonnie membership or my entire massive failed colation retakes delve if fail != true on Junly 31 you heard me!!!!!

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2009.07.01 17:13:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde
Workin on it.


you go boyfriend

Scarr Face
Minmatar
EdgeGamers
Drop the Hammer
Posted - 2009.07.01 23:23:00 - [70]
 

The time for mercenary forces the size of the MC are a thing of the past. I agree that the cloaky cloaky griefing behind enemy lines thing still works very effectively...but the merc steamroller that was witnessed in the north just wont happen again.

The MC at its peak was truely an awesome thing to behold..and could today have still been a 'gamebreaker' in the scheme of things. Alas..like all things..eve is about adapting and changing with the game...something that MC probably was behind the curve on...and ultimately contributed to its demise.

Tortuga while a great idea of sorts...was the worst thing IMO that could have happened. Mercs cease to be mercs once they hold space. Couple that with not changing with mechanics of the game...and the most important thing...politics of the game...is a sure way to end a good thing.

The PL of today is the closest thing to resembling what MC could have been if not for some wrong turns made....and the comment about KIA being a 'legitimate' mercenary alliance is complete LOLz...granted some of the MC were experts in 'cuddly diplomacy'...but nothing comes close to the sheer talent eddz has of sucking the chrome off whoever's bumper :)

Frogzuk
Gallente
Federation Security
Posted - 2009.07.01 23:45:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Wrayeth
Edited by: Wrayeth on 01/07/2009 14:40:04
I'd say another reason why there are fewer real mercs these days hinges on the fact the war targets just refuse to undock anymore. EVE in general has become very risk-averse, more apt to do the "safe" thing than the "fun" thing. As such, whenever there's a possibility of risk, most people hide in station; this results in boredom on a massive level. The mercs can either sit there camping the station for hours with nothing to do, or they can ignore their merc contract entirely and go pew-pew other people.


^this

Ambre Blanche
Amarr
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
Posted - 2009.07.02 09:45:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Garia666
contact the privateers.. for the empire work.. very effective

Nothing better than a good laugh in the morning Very Happy

Thank you for that ugh
Ambre.

Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.07.02 10:12:00 - [73]
 

As one who was there from before the beginning to well after the end...

In 2004 FRICK & BDCI (some in BDCI called us the MC back then) started out just as it should have... a couple dozen pilots swarming over corps and then alliances when they got introduced... mostly through empire wars and at 0.0 gateways.

Personally I was happy with just FRICK and BDCI. But I think Seleene wanted to go after bigger fish and on a grander scale. Alliances and large solid power blocs were the future. We formed our own power block in early 2005 with TC and NSN and officially called it the MC. I went ahead and threw the card logo in there for show...

The four corps still operated in empire, still all four of us wardec'g alliances like FOE and Xetic. We ventured a little in 0.0 at that point but only around NPC and sovereignty swapping stations as there were only a handful compared to now.

It wasn't until the advent of significant POS warfare that the MC dove into 0.0. I remember Big Blue in June 2006 and fighting around insta-popping POS's.

Mynas is right. It was the T2 trade and the ISK that went with it that mostly fueled the MC.

As for 0.0 space; I don't believe the alliance we resided with mattered as long as we had a place to return to after a contract was over. I believe it could have been D2 for all we cared. BOB and Period Basis afforded us peace and relative quiet for a long time (save for a short invasion by -A-).

Sitting in empire is not a cure for boredom most of use really wanted to get out there and into 0.0 for good. Besides who doesn't mind 0.0 ratting from time to time or I dare say mining in 0.0... The game is meant to be played, not to get pigeon-holed into a limited niche (unless that's your desire). It was an inevitable evolution for the MC and one that ultimately led to our demise.

I saw us turn from a free-roaming small force into a moderately sized space holding alliance. if the MC wanted to compete with the big boys and bring heavy metal to the battlefield, which is what a lot of older pilots itching to train up those skills wanted to do, 0.0 was the only place we could build our own supercaps and flex those muscles.

All that has changed. Everyone and their mother, including my mother, has a cap ship of some sort...

The poster who said that roaming the back lanes with a small force is the only viable means as a mercenary force is probably right. About large, SOV holding, mercenaries, SATAN was spot on about the 1/2 of EVE comment but OFC I always agree with BURN EDEN.

The MC as an alliance is dead now. Time to move on. I have.

Zackalwe
Gallente
Rodents of Unusual Size
Posted - 2009.07.02 12:15:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Zackalwe on 02/07/2009 12:17:37
This has been an interesting thread, thought I would chip in.

I do think there is a place for mercs in Eve, but not in the old MC capital blob way.
A few assumptions I am basing this on:

1. To be a truly effective capital deploying force requries 0.0 space ownership with moongold. And a good corp/alliance based replacement program.
The reason for this is if you are actually going to use capitals properly, sooner or later you will lose a load of them. I dont care how good you are.
A couple of losses (or even costly wins) where an alliance loses 30 or 40 dreads would be crippling to any alliance that doesnt have these resources.

2. Owning 0.0 space effectively rules you out of being a merc these days, as your enemies have a place to hit you back at. Because of the polarisation of the political landscape no alliance will survive in 0.0 space if they are regularly taking contracts to kill friends of their neighbours.

3. Again because of the political landscape, no merc alliance can be reasonably expected to acheive anything in 0.0 alone. Doing covops wolfpax fleets in the back areas of an alliance is annoying but is not really threatening to space sov.

So that leaves a 0.0 merc corp with the following requirements:

Cannot own 0.0 really, must rely on other income (industry, contract money, individual pilots missioning).

The above means that fielding caps is a no-no, fleets must be cost-effective and insurable. So maybe fleet BS or RR-BS as a core shiptype.

Must have a good reputation for honouring contracts and being a useful addition to a force (kindof obvious for any merc enterprise). And be neutral when the job is done (no always contracting to one side).
Also means respecting your enemy as well as your friend, in case they are future employers.

Must be good at working with other fleets. Most deployments will be in support of other co-ordinated operations.


If a merc group was based on this I think it could make a good name.
The way I see it working is in support of alliances waging sov war.

As an example I know of an alliance that has a very good capital fleet and the resources and replacement program to field it consistently. It is very good with this cap fleet and would not consider help from a cap-based merc corp. (they have freinds with caps if the need is there).
What it does sometimes find though is that it has a capital fleet many times bigger than its support fleet. A merc corp could conceivably fill this niche from time to time, when allied support is not available.

I dont know, it would be a headache maybe. There are issues with blue status, and communications (presumably you would not want a merc corp access to alliance TS). Above all there would have to be trust, both in that the merc corp will fight well and to the death if required to support the cap fleet, and trust in that the merc corp will not betray its contract.
Perhaps the standard contract would include a provision of reimbusement for merc ships lost in the battle. Like a 30mill cover for insurance or something per BS lost.

It would be interesting to see the attempt anyway. 60 or so mercs in T2 fleet battleships with the experience and skill to work in 0.0 warfare.

The trouble is it would be hard to make it pay.


Pages: 1 2 [3]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only