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blankseplocked What about drone ship in high sec that can use Fighter Drones?
 
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Sword Knight
Posted - 2009.06.24 12:36:00 - [1]
 

Carriers are great but can only be used in low sec and the HAC Ishtar can only carry small drones, so how about the ability to use "Fighter Drones" instead and just cut their number down to somewhere between 3 and 5 depending on the balance of DPS, maybe a BC ship would be appropriate as it should have to appear larger than HAC to carry larger drones in but a smaller tank than the Ishtar and only a small number of weapon usable high slots to balance it correctly.

Valkyrie Valhalla
Posted - 2009.06.24 12:49:00 - [2]
 

I like the idea of that, as the Ishtar is only really the only practical drone ship that you can get in within year of starting up your alt on training. And why only give Gallente the drone ship fun, Ammar have a nice drone destroyer ship why not take that to the next level.

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.06.24 13:07:00 - [3]
 

Curse + fighters please Very Happy

Ausser
Bubba Gump ORE Corp.
Posted - 2009.06.24 15:41:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Ausser on 24/06/2009 15:41:20
The side effect of this change is the presence of excessive large drone bays on small ships.

N.b. Fighters have lots of drawbacks. They have a hard time to hit something smaller than a battleship. They are slow. They start/return slowly. And delegate will also not work for you in high sec.

The only advantage you would have is their ability to follow a target into warp. But that's a pvp only feature.


Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.06.24 16:12:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ausser
The side effect of this change is the presence of excessive large drone bays on small ships.

Fighter = 5000m3
Shuttle = 5000m3
Heavy Drone = 25m3
Light Drone = 5m3

So... the ability to field 5 real live pilots, as that's who are actually operating Fighters, compared to fielding 5 remote controlled drones...

Means you could either carry 5 Fighters, or 1000 Hob II. Even if you smartbombed them all, I'm reasonably sure they'd still kill you just with overwhelming numbers.


Fighters are little X-wings that get deployed in massive fleet battles. They are not perimeter guard while you mine Veld in a 1.0 system.

Bibbleibble
Posted - 2009.06.24 16:35:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Bibbleibble on 24/06/2009 16:35:52
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Fighters are little X-wings that get deployed in massive fleet battles. They are not perimeter guard while you mine Veld in a 1.0 system.


/thread

Sword Knight
Posted - 2009.06.24 17:16:00 - [7]
 

Im not asking for extra drones on a mining ship but how about increasing the number of drones on some ships so that we can have "true" mini drone carrier ships lik maby able to deploy more drones that regular ships ballencing the DPS with normal turret/missile ships.

AtheistOfDoom
Amarr
Invicta.
Posted - 2009.06.24 17:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sword Knight
Im not asking for extra drones on a mining ship but how about increasing the number of drones on some ships so that we can have "true" mini drone carrier ships lik maby able to deploy more drones that regular ships ballencing the DPS with normal turret/missile ships.

You used to be able to do this. You can't now because ccp changed the whole drone system because of lag. WE DON'T NEED MINI CARRIERS.

Sword Knight
Posted - 2009.06.24 18:23:00 - [9]
 

So yor not a drone person hu!

Some people like to EMC, some like missiles, some guns, some like speed and some like stealth.. I like drones.

Thing is its just about impossible to get the same DPS from you ship as would a fixed weppon ships give. I would happly sacrifise my hight slots for more drone DPS... so how about a module that removes the ability to place a weppon in a high slot in return you get more drone DPS?

Ausser
Bubba Gump ORE Corp.
Posted - 2009.06.24 19:56:00 - [10]
 

AtheistOfDoom is right.

Ages ago the max drone count a ship was able to launch was 10.

CCP changed it to reduce laag.

The Drone Interfacing skill was changed from +1 drone per level to +20% dmg per level.

Some ships got bonus to drone dps/hp.

When i remember right then there is some kind of faction crusier that allows +1 drone per level, but not sure if it is ingame at all.

The only way for you to get more drones than 5 is to get such a crusier or go for a carrier. Carriers are cheap, nice and fun toy, so it's not wrong to traing for them at all.

darius mclever
Posted - 2009.06.24 20:23:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ausser
AtheistOfDoom is right.

Ages ago the max drone count a ship was able to launch was 10.

CCP changed it to reduce laag.

The Drone Interfacing skill was changed from +1 drone per level to +20% dmg per level.

Some ships got bonus to drone dps/hp.

When i remember right then there is some kind of faction crusier that allows +1 drone per level, but not sure if it is ingame at all.

The only way for you to get more drones than 5 is to get such a crusier or go for a carrier. Carriers are cheap, nice and fun toy, so it's not wrong to traing for them at all.


Guardian-Vexor. But a bit expensive.

DustinTheWind1
Posted - 2009.06.24 20:26:00 - [12]
 

I also noticed the lack of ability to use drones exclusively for damage per sec compared to turrets also. You can get around 1000 damage/sec with turrets alone but with sentry or heavy drones alone you are stuck in the 500ish damage/sec. Here is one of my proposed solutions to this problem here.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1102416

I also wish all ships could use drone control mods which would replace turret slots as this would be another solution but I think ccp doesn't like the idea of more drones unfortunately so I proposed my idea above or drone damage mods which fit in your high slot and take up turret/launcher slots.

My main reasoning for this is that I would like to see ships that could use drones alone for damage and not have to micromanage between turrets plus drones. So just turrets or just drones if you wanted. Currently you have to use turrets with drones on the dominix to come close to turrets on the mega for instance.

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.24 22:39:00 - [13]
 

Personally I would rather have drones that bridge the gap between what we currently have and fighters, along with a new ship class to properly launch them.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.06.24 22:42:00 - [14]
 

Hisec is already overpopulated. CCP doesn't need to any more hisec content.

Ausser
Bubba Gump ORE Corp.
Posted - 2009.06.24 23:01:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Jacob Mei
Personally I would rather have drones that bridge the gap between what we currently have and fighters, along with a new ship class to properly launch them.


Which gap? Fighters dont do much dmg. The dmg output of carriers is just acceptable because they field 10 of them. But they have to pay for by watching their fighters slowboat arround. Speed mod does not work for fighters. So the resulting dmg is lower than what you get when you use drones on a dedicated ship with bonus.

Compare a carrier with e.g. Moros. Untill the Moros runs out of drones, it's a drone beast.

What application do you have in mind for fighters in high sec?

Sword Knight
Posted - 2009.06.25 08:14:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Sword Knight on 25/06/2009 10:34:31
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Hisec is already overpopulated. CCP doesn't need to any more hisec content.


If CCP ran a restaurant and 90% of the customers only liked what was on half of the menu, would CCP be arrogant and not change the menu just because they though the selection is boring?

People work for a living, they come home and want to have fun and relax, and not be stressed watching their back all the time, that happens at work!

Theres a huge market area for drone improvment... please "make it so"

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2009.06.25 09:45:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Rip Minner on 25/06/2009 09:50:42
Edited by: Rip Minner on 25/06/2009 09:50:01
Edited by: Rip Minner on 25/06/2009 09:49:05
Edited by: Rip Minner on 25/06/2009 09:47:53
Edited by: Rip Minner on 25/06/2009 09:45:52
The drone weapon system as a hole needs to be reworked to be on par with the other weapon systems. More drone mods need to be added. More ships with more and differnt drone bounses. And out side of that ships that can field more drones or drone mods in high slots to bring up there damg. Then they still would not be on par as you can't overheat your drones but mybe the drone mods could be overheated for better dps.

Then there is there main drawback once there gone there gone no reloading. Drone bays need to be able to be reloaded.

As is right now there nothing more then a second rate weapon system and helps support your primary weapons. Some ships like the Dominix its the other way around but the drones still need to have there dps supported by rails and even then they dont stack up to the dps of other weapon systems.


The Gallente Dread is a good expample of a drone system that can stand by its drone damg. But it to still suffers from not being able to reload its drone bay pluse its a Cap ship. We need a BS that can do the same thing with drones. Just dont put any hard points or missil points on this ship. Or you can put them there but they reduce drone damg per gun or launcher only when you online them.

Sword Knight
Posted - 2009.06.25 10:33:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Rip Minner
The Gallente Dread is a good expample of a drone system that can stand by its drone damg. But it to still suffers from not being able to reload its drone bay pluse its a Cap ship. We need a BS that can do the same thing with drones. Just dont put any hard points or missil points on this ship. Or you can put them there but they reduce drone damg per gun or launcher only when you online them.


Right now you can drop drones as a can in space and scoop them back up into your drone bay but when you compare this with the ability to take ammo from you cargo hold strait into your weapon re-loads it doest seem quite fair... maybe we should have a re-loading bay that contains drones for deploying and replacing and ammo, this would make people think a bit more about tactics.

Valkyrie Valhalla
Posted - 2009.06.25 10:43:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Valkyrie Valhalla on 25/06/2009 10:43:53
Edited by: Valkyrie Valhalla on 25/06/2009 10:43:26
Its not the number of drones or size of the drones that are the problem, its simply the balancing comparing DPS drone ship with DPS missile/turret ships and the ability to see how much damage your drones are doing, the only help you get with that is EFT

What we need is better DPS for drones, a way of seeing their DPS, and popper drone ships for all races not just Gal.

Drone Damage Display:
nullhttp://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1053156[/url]

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2009.06.25 10:49:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Rip Minner on 25/06/2009 10:57:56
I would love to see how much dps my drones are doing in game with my Dominix or other drone ships of other races. But I dont need eft to see how my Dominix is way slower at poping ships then my Apoc.


Edit: Thats not counting the mobilty of other ships. Yes you can use heavys and remain moble or drop sentrys and keep moving. But to go back in a BS and pick them Sentrys up is a pain in you know what. Thats why I say drones need reworking. Sentrys should follow your ship around. Thats the kind of reworking I'm talking about along with other stuff that needs to happen.

Sword Knight
Posted - 2009.06.25 11:06:00 - [21]
 

You have to remember that drones play very differently to another weapon type, firstly you high slot items cannot be destroyed while drones can so you have an extra element of protection is for a remote shielding on your drones or simply pull them back into your drone bay and hope the Rat or Player targets you instead when you dispatch them from dock again.

It ok if you are just sitting still using Sentries, but under 30K they have trouble targeting, so you need to use other types of drones, and they normally take a few second to reach their target, mediums are ok for lvl4 missions, heavy’s are impractical as they are far to slow for just about anything but very close quarter engagements with battleships.

The point is you need a compleatly different player tactical skills to play drones either in pvp or missions as its not about range but getting your weppons to the target and keeping them from harm, while lasting longenough yourself.

silken mouth
Gallente
Core Genes Applied Technologies
Posted - 2009.06.25 11:10:00 - [22]
 

mod to increase tracking = check
mod to increase range = check
mod to increase speed = check

still to do:
mod to increase damage
mod to increase bandwith
mod to increase dronebay size.

Sword Knight
Posted - 2009.06.25 12:02:00 - [23]
 

At the moment there is only a rig to increase sentry damage, so unless you are on a Domix you cant really fit it as an Ishtar needs its rigs for keeping its self safe and carriers have fighters to do their dirty work.

So a way of generically increasing drone damage would be great, maybe a low slot mod for increasing the drone rate of fire perhaps.

Pvt Public7
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.06.25 12:08:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sword Knight
At the moment there is only a rig to increase sentry damage, so unless you are on a Domix you cant really fit it as an Ishtar needs its rigs for keeping its self safe and carriers have fighters to do their dirty work.

So a way of generically increasing drone damage would be great, maybe a low slot mod for increasing the drone rate of fire perhaps.

It'd have to be a high slot mod.
Med slot for bandwidth, lowslot for bay size (name nerfs as cargo expanders?)

Luke Perceptinator
Amarr
PELCA Incorporated
Posted - 2009.06.28 05:34:00 - [25]
 

Great idea Sword they could do something simular for the other races maybe to balance things out too. Go the HAC's Wink

LaughingManic
Posted - 2009.06.28 11:22:00 - [26]
 

While we're at it where are the hardwiring implants that affect drones? You get ones that increase turret tracking, damage etc. so why are there no drone ones?

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.28 18:26:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ausser
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Personally I would rather have drones that bridge the gap between what we currently have and fighters, along with a new ship class to properly launch them.


Which gap? Fighters dont do much dmg. The dmg output of carriers is just acceptable because they field 10 of them. But they have to pay for by watching their fighters slowboat arround. Speed mod does not work for fighters. So the resulting dmg is lower than what you get when you use drones on a dedicated ship with bonus.

Compare a carrier with e.g. Moros. Untill the Moros runs out of drones, it's a drone beast.

What application do you have in mind for fighters in high sec?


Something like a 50-100 m3 sized drone, about the size of a frig and have the same command capabilities as the fighters but do half the damage. I dont know, just giving an example.

Izo Alabaster
Posted - 2009.06.28 19:09:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Izo Alabaster on 28/06/2009 19:10:10
As a droneship pilot, I find your argument to boost drone dps downright silly. Which drone ship, exactly, cannot stand up to its peers? Ishkur = (arguably) the best AF. Vexor is a good cruiser, which can deal face melting DPS if fitted properly. Myrmidon is an underrated but still functional BC. The Domi is currently one of the best PVP BS in the game, while slightly slower to run missions than some other battleships, it boasts a very nice tank. The Ishtar? Please.

Originally by: Sword Knight
If CCP ran a restaurant and 90% of the customers only liked what was on half of the menu, would CCP be arrogant and not change the menu just because they though the selection is boring?


That would be pandering if they did. Spineless, directionless, talentless people have to resort to pandering. CCP doesn't need to pander. CCP makes difficult decisions that may be unpopular in order to make EVE a better game. Having unique and special items on the menu, even if not every single person likes them, makes the place (or in this case, the game) a unique and special place, rather than just another WoW clone, which is apparently what many carebears think it should be.

Originally by: Sword Knight

People work for a living, they come home and want to have fun and relax, and not be stressed watching their back all the time, that happens at work!



Here ya go:

Game for Sword Knight

A nice game where you don't have to worry about watching your back and having to do any real effort or intelligent thought. If that one doesn't cut it for you, here's one that's a bit more challenging:

Other game for Sword Knight

Originally by: Sword Knight
Im not asking for extra drones on a mining ship but how about increasing the number of drones on some ships so that we can have "true" mini drone carrier ships lik maby able to deploy more drones that regular ships ballencing the DPS with normal turret/missile ships.


They have this already in the game. Most Gallente ships favor augmenting their functionality, be it a flexible tactical role using ECM drones or sentry drones for sniping, or straight up DPS, and are balanced around that.


Originally by: Sword Knight
Thing is its just about impossible to get the same DPS from you ship as would a fixed weppon ships give.


Are you trolling? Seriously? Exactly which Gallente drone ship is lacking in DPS compared to other ships?

If you are trying to use your drones ONLY as DPS, then that's like activating only half of your turrets on a turret ship and complaining that your DPS is lacking. Those ships are given turrets for a reason. F1-F8 and use them.

Drone oriented ships are fine without a boost to their drone DPS.



Edit: I forgot about the Eos. Ok, the Eos sucks. Boost the Eos and Hyperion please.

Sword Knight
Posted - 2009.06.29 07:07:00 - [29]
 

Comments about CCP are as a metaphor only.

I agree with balancing and do not want to play superman! just link maby people ingame I just want to see more options and content for drones to make them equal to guns and missiles.

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.06.29 14:09:00 - [30]
 

If there would be something like a dedicated Drone Ship with Drone DPS similar to Turret Ships, you'd almost need to remove all its high slots cause it would be way to gankish if you'd have the full amount.

One thing i miss are Drone Damage Mods like Heat Sinks, Gyros, BCS or MFS and Drone Implants like the current implants for turrets and missiles.


 

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